[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello? Oh, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the, what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shared.
Hello, welcome to what if they’re wrong podcast? I’m the host Jeremiah, and I’m joined today by Brian and he is going to talk about how the NFL and sports in general, there’s a possibility that it could be rigged or manipulated is what I like to say. Not that every game is fixed, but they are definitely narratives and things like that, that they try to portray to keep the ratings high.
So I’ll introduce him now. Hello, Brian.
[00:01:12] Brian Tuohy: Hey, how are you doing Jeremiah?
[00:01:14] Jeremiah: I’m good. How are you?
[00:01:16] Brian Tuohy: Doing alright
[00:01:17] Jeremiah: so, what got you to initially say, Hey, there’s something going on here? Uh, something just doesn’t feel right about professional sports that got you to write this book. The fix
[00:01:32] Brian Tuohy: it was a combination of things.
Um, I think part of it was just being a fan. And if you watch enough games in uni, you see enough odd things occur that you kind of start raising questions in your head. But, um, there was two books I read and this was quite some time ago now. Um, one was called, they called the game by former NFL player named Bernie perish and another book called interference by an author named Dan Moldea and Bernie Parrish being a former player suggested in his book without really outright saying it.
But he kind of said something to the effect of. CBS and NBC bought into the leagues back in the 1960s, when he played, he said it felt like they literally bought the NFL and that wasn’t it amazing how certain things seem to always work out for television’s benefit. And Moldea’s book approached it from an organized crime.
Uh, standpoint and talked about all the games at the NFL claims were never fixed by gamblers or organized crime members. Whereas he proved that probably over 70 games from his research were very likely fixed. And so I kind of put those two ideas and thoughts together and then started doing my own research.
And, you know, you read enough sports books, you see enough games like you say, and it all just kind of fell into place.
[00:02:48] Jeremiah: Yeah. I find it kind of strange how Vegas can get so accurate on their point spreads and stuff like that. Um, have you noticed anything about that? Like people talk about point shaving and stuff like
[00:03:03] Brian Tuohy: Well, w on the Vegas end of things, um, I find it kind of curious. I interviewed a guy by the name of scotch. Who was the head of the star, the sports book of the 1980s, which was like the premier sports book in Las Vegas, and basically in the United States at the time. And they kind of set the betting line for the nation through their operations.
And he was really open and honest with me for a lot of the things we talked about, but he claimed that, you know, in all his years working there, which was well over a decade as the head of the Stardust, they never once had any contact with the NFL or any sports league. What’s. So, I mean, his standpoint was that they were just really good at their jobs.
And I mean, while I believe him at the same time, like you said, there are so many times when the line is just dead on accurate that you kind of have to question like, really, really, it just so happened that they were that perfect. And they’re that perfect that often, but I kind of think that may very well be the case that they just know what sports betters want, know how to set the line to reflect that.
And then to a certain extent, luck may play a role in it, but there’s a lot of people who disagree with me who are on this kind of conspiracy bandwagon that say the two are definitely in cahoots. I don’t know if I would really actually go that far. I think it’s a possibility, but again, from what I’ve learned from talking to these guys, and from what I saw in the FBI files, I don’t think that’s necessarily true.
[00:04:28] Jeremiah: So a
lot of people would probably think when you say the NFL’s rig that. How could all these players be involved in this fixing or whatever, but I’ve heard you speak before about, you only need a couple players or individuals involved in order for it to work like the referees and stuff like that. If you can speak on that just a little bit.
[00:04:51] Brian Tuohy: Well, I agree with you. I think it’s, it doesn’t take everybody, you know, I think baseball would be a sport where it would be. You would need more requirement to have more players potentially involved in fixing the game. Because if you had to say a pitcher who was a starting pitcher, and you told him to go out there and fix this particular game, you know, he could give up whatever seven, eight runs and three innings get pulled.
But that doesn’t mean this. Team’s not going to rally and score nine runs against the opposing pitchers and still win the game regardless of your best efforts. But with the NFL, I think one, if you have control of the referees, you have control of a lot of. It because, you know, unlike baseball, you know, a penalty cancer move a home run, but in penalty can certainly remove, move a touchdown.
And even a penalty, a drive can alter the outcome of certain drives and put teams in tough positions. So I think the referees are one way of doing it. If you’re going to manipulate games for television, like I think the NFL does in terms of the players and coaches. I don’t think again, you requires all 11 guys on one side to do it.
I had one, um, gambler. Tell me, look, if you gave me. An offensive lineman, a quarterback, and a defensive back for one team. Just those three players out of the starting 22, I could fix any game you have just with those three players. And I think really you could do it with one. I mean, really, I think if you had control of an offensive lineman, which is something that a lot of people don’t think about, but if you had control of an offensive lineman, he could disrupt the offense entirely on his own.
You know, if he fails to block on passing plays or riding. You can bog down the offense. If he false starts at a key moment, it can throw the offense off. If he creates a clear holding penalty, that’s going to get flagged and not all of them get flagged, but if he does it in a way that definitely causes a flag to be thrown, it can throw off a drive.
I mean, one offensive lineman can just destroy a game for an NFL team. And it’s something, you know, not a lot of people would look at. A lot of people would always look at the quarterback. Well, what’s he do? Did he muffed that hand off? Did he throw an interception on purpose? Is he missing receivers on purpose?
But like I said, I think an offensive lineman can do way more damage than you would ever imagine.
[00:06:55] Jeremiah: Yeah. I have a bunch of different things I’ve wrote down for games that seemed suspicious for,
you know, manipulator long list. Yeah. Yeah. So
I wanted to start with. Tom Brady and his career. Cause you know, he’s like loved by a ton and hated by a whole ton of people too.
Um, his career just seems kinda too perfect as far as like how long he’s been able to perform at the peak and how many Superbowls he’s won and uh, things like that. So the one thing I wrote down was, and it involves the refs being like involved in it, I guess. But I have the whole Pats verse Raiders tuck rule.
And if you’re a football watcher, you and are alive long enough to be around for that game.
[00:07:48] Brian Tuohy: It’s an old game. I feel old saying it, but yeah, that was at 20 years ago now.
[00:07:53] Jeremiah: Yeah. And just certain like narratives that they have, um, like it seems. I think the Patriots won the super bowl right after 9/11 and Katrina happened in new Orleans and new Orleans won the super bowl right for that.
So, um, two
[00:08:09] Brian Tuohy: years, two or three years later. Yeah. Yeah. What do
[00:08:12] Jeremiah: you, what do you think about like their narratives as far as like setting up the perfect games? Not saying every game is scripted, but, or the schedule isn’t all scripted, but it seems like they pick and choose what teams they want to promote the most.
[00:08:29] Brian Tuohy: Yeah. It’s, you know, one of the things I find very interesting is that the whole, um, hashtag strong movement and I find it interesting, like you mentioned, you know, the, after 9/11, the Patriots won the super bowl. And even in that same year, the New York Yankees made it to the world series, which seemed rather convenient.
And then after hurricane Katrina, two or three years later, the new Orleans saints who had been nothing for their entire existence, suddenly rallied and won the Super Bowl. And then after that you had things like hashtag Houston strong after the hurricane hit there, the Astros won the world series. It hashtag Boston strong after the Boston marathon bombing and both the red Sox and the Bruins made it to the finals of their respective sports, where the red Sox won.
And then you have the hashtag strong Vegas strong after the shooting in LA. And Las Vegas has new hockey team, which was a total expansion team somehow made it to the Stanley cup finals. And yet there’s no other instance that I’m aware of where some city became like hashtag strong and their sports team failed to achieve.
I mean, it’s like every time the city’s been hashtag whatever that team, somehow magically made it to the finals, they may not have won, but they still made it farther than potentially they should have. And it’s, I find it really. You know, how coincidental can things be? How much can you just say, oh, well that just magically happened.
And wasn’t it wonderful. And then realize you have a multi-billion dollar business that’s behind the whole movement and there’s people like Nike and under armor and Coca-Cola and Gatorade and all these other companies profiting off of this as well. And just say again, well, it’s just happenstance. So that’s the way it occurred.
I just, I don’t believe in that, you know, I believe maybe if it happened once. Okay, fine. But when it happens, like I said, at least five, six times. Then it’s a pattern and then it’s not coincidental anymore.
[00:10:19] Jeremiah: Yeah. And you said something, um, I heard a show you were on before, and you said you were talking about like teams that are getting new stadiums.
Seem to do really well, if you can touch on that.
[00:10:33] Brian Tuohy: Yeah. That’s another kind of interesting thing. It doesn’t seem to affect NBA and NHL teams as much with the steams, but major league baseball teams and NFL teams. It seems like, and I have this listed on my website, you know, when a team built a new stadium or did a major renovation, which required like public funding and how soon before after success.
And it’s amazing how frequently the two seem to be tied together. I mean, you had, you know, recently, like the San Francisco giants, they were in candlestick park for years, they wanted a new stadium. And then I think it was on Monday night football. They had like a transformer, like literally explode outside of the stadium, which was caught by the blimp.
And it became like big news. And then all of a sudden, the city approved a new stadium and suddenly the San Francisco 49ers were in the super bowl. And it’s amazing how all that kind of just linked together. And it happened. All over the place teams relocate and instantly seem to win and teams get new stadiums and they instantly seem to succeed.
Whether it’s just after it was approved or whether it’s after it’s built. It’s again, one of those things that just seems way too coincidental to just be happenstance. It seems like to know to make the cities be happy that they’re going to give these billionaires. A new stadium, which the owners should be building themselves.
You know, they placate the city by giving them a championship or at least a near championship. So everybody’s happy that they’re still supporting this team.
[00:11:59] Jeremiah: Yeah, it definitely seems a little strange to me. Um, I think this year is, was it this year or maybe it was the year before where the Rams, the Rams seemed to be like the new.
Hot team again after like kind of sucking for a little while,
[00:12:18] Brian Tuohy: for quite a while. Yeah, no, that’s exactly it. I mean, here’s the Rams who really relocated from St. Louis to Los Angeles. Their owner spent billions, it was like $5 billion to build this whole new spanking brand new dome to awesome stadium in Los Angeles.
Where nobody apparently wanted footfall for over 20, some odd years, but yet now they have two teams. They’re one renting from the, you know, the ramshackle don’t owning the Rams. And now here, the Rams are one game away from the Superbowl. And again, you know, is that coincidence or is that, Hey, you spent $5 billion to help us the NFL.
Well, here’s your gift. We’ll maybe put you in the super bowl for doing what. And that’s what I think a lot of times these things boil down to, I think it’s kind of rewards. I think it’s kind of accolades from other owners to each other that say, Hey, look, you did this for us. We’ll do that for you. And publicly you can reap these rewards.
And I think that’s one reason she brought up Brady and the Patriots a little bit ago. You know, I think that’s one reasons why the Patriots were so good for so long is their owner. Robert Kraft was one of the strongest owners in the NFL and he did a lot for the league. A lot of it was behind the scenes.
A lot of it didn’t get public attention. But he drove a lot of things within that league to make everybody more money. And I think that’s one of the reasons why the Patriots did so well and why teams looked the other way during spy gate deflate gate and all the other, you know, things that happened within that organizations was because Kraft was such a strong owner.
[00:13:44] Jeremiah: Yeah. I’ve, I’ve been on Tom Brady for a long time. Um, I,
[00:13:51] Brian Tuohy: you mean
[00:13:51] Jeremiah: in a bad way, like. I mean, he’s good. Quarterback. Don’t get me wrong, but I just don’t buy his picture S career. Um, like you said, spy gate to deflate gate. He also got the tuck rule in his favor. For some reason, it seems like everywhere he goes.
Or he’s only been on Tampa bay, but as soon as he went to Tampa bay, it just seemed like he instantly was able to get whatever pieces he wanted to complete his offense. So he could be like the greatest or whatever. Like you have Antonio brown calls on all this panic and stuff and doing his stunts and all of a sudden he’s signing with.
Brady. And then grant comes out of retirement. It just, everything seems to be built around Brady to make him as good as he is. Uh, whereas if he was on, say, I don’t know the Browns, I don’t think he would have had quite the seasons that he
[00:14:49] Brian Tuohy: has had. Well, I don’t know. He very well may have. I mean, one of the things I say about this whole idea of the NFL, for example, manipulating its own game.
Is they do to do it, to build storylines and to build stars and you can’t fake talent, you know, you can’t take a LeBron, you know, somebody who’s not a LeBron James and turn them into LeBron James, if he doesn’t have that natural talent. And so, I mean, I think Brady is a talented quarterback again, is he really the greatest of all time and all that?
That’s totally up for debate. I think there’s guys who throw a better pass by. And do a lot of things better than Brady does, but he is talented. I’m not going to take that away from him. But so I think if you have that talent, then you can manipulate things around him to make him in that team better. And so, like you said, you know, they, the Patriots seem to, you know, get Randy Moss when they needed them for.
The Tampa bay Buccaneers got Antonio brown, they got Gronk back for it, you know, Brady offensive linemen and that sort of thing. But then at the same time, you know, I want you to do the referees and the league itself protect Tom Brady. You know, how many times is offensive holding called on the Patriots are now on the more, when he was on the bucket.
You know, that affected the game, you know, where they letting the offensive line get away with murder to better protect them. Cause if he’s better protected, he’s going to do better. And if he does better, the whole team’s going to do better and they’re going to win more games. I mean, it’s just that simple and that’s all the manipulation it takes.
Is it just a little bit like an order basically from the owners or the league to the referee saying, Hey, protect Tom Brady, protect Aaron Rogers, protect drew breeze. Let them do what they do because there are stars and that’s what people are tuning into. Then games are being manipulated even at a subtle, subtle, subtle level, it’s going to affect everything.
And so I think that’s what tape with Brady is once Brady got that many in relation, which I think occurred, like you said, after nine 11 with the Patriots, he kind of became a thing. And once he became a star, then he got more help. And as that Patriots dynasty kind of grew, it became, like you said, a love hate.
We’re a lot of people loved him and wanted him to succeed. And a lot of people tuned into watch the hope that they would fail and both things were good for the league. So I mean, dynasties, even though people said, well, if it’s fixed, why isn’t it fixed for this team, that team and the other team, why do they allow dynasties to happen?
Because Dynasty’s actually our selling point. It is what drives people to screens because they want to either see that dynasty succeed or fail. And they will tune in to watch both outcomes, regardless of what actually. So I think Brady, despite being maybe not the best quarterback was great for the league because he had that star power.
He was an All-American guy. He didn’t get into trouble off the field and they were allowing him to do, you know, almost in a way, get away with murder on the field because it benefited everybody involved.
[00:17:35] Jeremiah: Yeah. And it seems like, um, Patrick, Mahommes is like their new poster boy, and it’ll be interesting to see how his career plays out because as you see.
One game away from the Superbowl again. And it’s
[00:17:50] Brian Tuohy: just, uh,
[00:17:52] Jeremiah: yeah, it’s just, he, he’s on, you know, the Madden covers and, uh, they’re really promoting him and the chiefs and everything like that. So definitely something to keep an eye out for.
[00:18:06] Brian Tuohy: Well, it is one of those things too, with Brady, potentially retiring today, kind of face we talk.
Um, and Ben Roethlisberger, having just written. I’m drew Brees recently have left Phil rivers having left Eli, Manny, and having left Peyton maiden hammy left Aaron Rogers, maybe potentially retiring. You know, the NFL has to build up a new roster of star quarterbacks. They have to because they know quarterbacks literally drive the ratings.
That’s what people almost tune in to see. And if you have just a bunch of also rans out there, their ratings are going to tumble. So now you have like Joe burrow coming in, who is a number one draft pick who seems to be a really talented quarter. And really, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the bangles and Burl, beat the chiefs and go to the Superbowl just because of Ross, Berger, and Brady, and maybe Roger’s leaving the league because they need to build up more superstars to replace the fading superstars.
And so borough succeeding would really be good for the leak. I mean, my is, like you said, he’s already up there. He’s already in that echelon and him getting to a super bowl again, it’ll be just as good. And maybe even better depending what kind of ratings numbers from the homes games. But I wouldn’t be shocked to see Joe burrow started falling more into that upper echelon class for those reasons alone.
Not necessarily because he’s talented, but because the NFL needs that star power to drive the ratings because that’s where they make all their money is television.
[00:19:28] Jeremiah: Yeah. So like for me personally, like, so the Rams and the bucks game that just happened. I’m not sure if Brady was supposed to actually win that game, but he just fell short or whatever, but it seemed like the second half comeback was kind of scripted.
[00:19:47] Brian Tuohy: opinion, there was three Rams fumbles really helped that out. I mean, where’s the ball. Oh, they scored again. Oh, here’s the ball again? And he’s going to get, oh, here’s the ball again? I mean, yeah, that’ll help at 27 to three comeback
[00:20:00] Jeremiah: and then he had the other comeback and, uh, the Superbowl against Atlanta, I think it was.
Yeah. And, um, I think they do this, but it’s kind of a win-win for the league. So if the Rams win, they’ll still going to get high ratings. And if the Bucs when they’re going to get high ratings, so they kind of set up these situations in these games. So they really can’t lose who wins, uh, instead of having like an underdog team.
[00:20:28] Brian Tuohy: No, you’re right. There are certain situations where like, like you said, it’s a win-win for the leak. It doesn’t matter who wins really? The league’s going to do just fine. I think now with the Rams 49ers game, and then watch I’ll be like a hundred percent wrong, but I think that they definitely see a benefit in the Rams winning than the fourty Niners winner, because I think.
I have a lot more star power, obviously with Stafford and Beckam and signing the Von Miller and Aaron, Donald, and all the other guys they already have on their team, Cooper cup compared to the 49ers who have Jimmy Garappolo, who nobody seems too thrilled about. And sure they got Debo Samuel but they’re not really a star studded team.
You could make a story out of them being a Cinderella team. But at the same time, I think, you know, the league would probably prefer to Rams, make it. Again, the rewards that city of Los Angeles for building a new stadium rewards, the ownership for doing everything they did to relocate the team. And they just have more star power, more storylines attached to them.
But on the AFC side with the chiefs and the Bengals, I think that’s a toss up. I think that’s kind of a win-win regardless of who advances.
[00:21:33] Jeremiah: Yeah. I could definitely see borough pulling and upset and, um, I think borough from. Yeah. Cause I, I think I know Mahommes is great, but I just see something special in borough.
Um, so far, I mean, right out the gate, I can just kind of tell he’s going to be one of those superstars quarterbacks.
[00:21:59] Brian Tuohy: Yeah. barring injury. He’s got it. Yeah. He’s got that it or whatever that is. Yeah. And he’s good with the media too, which always helps. Oh yeah,
[00:22:08] Jeremiah: for sure. He’s got. You know, bravado about him, that people seem to like, but, uh, so I wanted to touch on people, you know, would be like, well, if it’s, if it’s rigged, when people talk about it, when people come out against, you know, the fixing and all.
So if you wanted to touch on that, um, I know you’ve got a certain views
[00:22:34] Brian Tuohy: on that. Well, that’s always the argument. It’s which is funny. Cause I mean, I bring up the idea of, you know, maybe the NFL is fixing its own game. So the NBA is fixing its own games and you know, people don’t necessarily attack that.
They kind of go for what you bring up is, well, wouldn’t somebody talk about it. If that was happening, let’s not really defensive it, but okay, fine. So here’s the thing I always say is, look, if who’s going to come out against this and how so, I mean, if you had like retired. Peyton Manning. If Peyton Manny went on ESPN tomorrow and said, Hey, you know, I fixed games because the NFL told me to, I threw that Superbowl against the new Orleans saints to make sure the saints won after hurricane Katrina and fulfill that storyline.
And later the NFL rewarded me by letting me win super bowl, 50 against the Panthers and go out on top. The first response everybody would have as well. What proof of this do you have? Peyton? Peyton Manning is like. Preeminent NFL ambassadors out there and their responsibility. Well, show me the proof and Peyton Manning would have no proof, right?
Besides his word. I mean, it’s not, again, if I would write a contract and say, look, if you do X we’ll do Y for you here, sign this pate and we’ll sign it. And, and so there’s no proof of this, you know, it would just be his word. So any player that’s going to come out against this sort of thing, taking place.
It would be on their word unless somehow some way they recorded some conversation or something or other, I don’t know. But the vast majority of them there’d be no proof behind this. So just be a statement and everybody would have to rely upon this guy statement. And then at the same time, even if you would make this statement, first of all, you’d have to assume ESPN sports illustrated Dorel whoever else would even bother to cover what he’s saying, which they can make stories disappear if nobody covers it anyway.
And then even if they did cover. What does that person have to gain? You know, there’s not millions of dollars in coming out and saying, I fixed NFL games because the NFL told me to, you know, if you write a book, you might make some money selling a few copies. I mean, I made a little bit of money selling a few copies of my book, but there’s not millions upon millions of dollars going to flow in because you make this grand statement about the NFL, no matter how true it is.
So what you’re going to really lose is probably a lot of connections, friends you made through the NFL former team. Coaches, what have you, you’re going to lose a lot of your reputation, especially if one of your big things you were known for as you were an NFL player. Well, you’re the guy who just came out and said the NFL is a bunch of, you know, fake wrestling nonsense.
So I mean, really anybody coming out is going to have way more to lose than they are going to have to gain by potentially clearing your conscious and saying, this is what transpires. So I don’t see why anybody would do it. I mean, I don’t, I just don’t see what there is.
[00:25:25] Jeremiah: Yeah. I also think if a player would come out, like Peyton Manning say would come out and say, yeah, it’s fixed.
And they determined, you know, what teams do really well. And who gets where, and kind of sets you up for success. It would kind of tarnish their name and their brand as well. Cause cause they would be looked at as less of a superstar,
[00:25:50] Brian Tuohy: I guess their legacy would be destroyed. I mean, and again, if that’s what you’re known for, if that’s your claim to fame, I mean, even if you were just kind of, uh, you know, if you were an offensive lineman or, you know, number two or three wide receiver or whatever, you know, how many of those guys still survive and do autograph signings and that sort of thing, because, you know, Hey, I played on this team that won the super bowl.
Come get my autograph. Even if they’re only making 20 bucks a crack or whatever, they’re still making money off that legacy. And all that would be flushed on the. By making such a claim. And it’s interesting because you know, last year at this time, um, and I’m not gonna remember his name. I think his last name was Jackson, but he played for Tampa bay when they won the super bowl against the Raiders.
Um, with, uh, John Gruden as their head coach, he was interviewed on the Tampa bay radio station and he was one of the defensive backs if I recall. Right. And during that interview, cause they were talking about Tom Brady and the upcoming super bowl last. E this former player literally set on this radio interview in Tampa and you can find it on YouTube and other places.
Um, he said, you know, the game’s not decided on the field, it’s decided off the field. And if you think it matters, who’s playing and who’s not, you’re crazy because that’s not how these games are, you know, figured out. And the, you know, it totally took the interviewers completely off guard. They didn’t really know how to respond to it.
And this player was just laughing. He’s just laughing and mocking him for thinking that this stuff was real. And I mean, it was a bizarre interview because I’ve never heard a football player say so openly. And honestly that these games are essentially rigged by the NFL, but he did. And the funny thing, of course too, after that is he makes this grand statement and it really goes viral across the internet.
And nobody follows up with him. Nobody, nobody followed up to say, Hey, why were you saying this? What does it say? You know, we should, you know, this could be a big deal, but they can’t because you know, when ESPN has given the NFL a billion dollars a year, they can’t then turn around and say, well, it’s all fake and shoot themselves in the foot and lose it, or a billion dollars.
So they just, you know, make it go away by not covering it.
[00:27:53] Jeremiah: Yeah. The player was actually joined Smith defensive back of the box. Cause I haven’t read. Um, but yeah, he, it was a bizarre interview. If anyone listening go, uh, listen to that on YouTube,
[00:28:06] Brian Tuohy: you can search in 10 minutes. Yeah. Yes.
[00:28:09] Jeremiah: Uh, because the player actually kind of gets mad at the people interviewing him because they’re like, why did you even come on the show?
And he’s like, well, you wouldn’t even know who I was. I didn’t win the Superbowl or whatever. Yeah. And, uh, he’s like, you guys want to talk to me about anything and he kinda got aggravated with them and they were like, well, it can’t be. And he’s like, you listen to me. The game’s not decided on the
[00:28:32] Brian Tuohy: field.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and like you say, it was perhaps the most out of sports interview I’ve ever seen or heard. I should say, I shouldn’t say seen, but yeah. I mean, it was, it was fascinating. And like I said, it became a big story for. And then everybody in sports media at least just turned a blind eye to it and acted like it never happened.
[00:28:54] Jeremiah: Yeah. They had to kind of sweep it onto the road because they don’t want, don’t want to getting out. Uh, but there’s definitely players that have, you know, said something or maybe slipped up and said something. This guy obviously was very forthcoming with it and was not hiding anything.
[00:29:15] Brian Tuohy: No. And that’s one of the things too.
I’d try to tell people with all this, when they act incredulous that it’s possible. I said, look at this a hundred percent truth. It’s not illegal for a league like the NFL to fix its own games. And that’s really the biggest takeaway from anything that I, you know, talk and write about is that fact is if the NBA wanted to fix its own.
It can, and it can do it legally if the NFL wants to it can, and it can do it legally. There’s no law, federal law that protects you from games being fixed. And even if we want to claim it’s fraud, you know, there was a lawsuit by a former jets fan who sued the Patriots over spy gate. And when he lost the case in court, uh, that was at the fifth circuit court of appeals.
I believe ruled that, you know, essentially when you buy a ticket to an NFL game, all the NFL has to do is provide you with. It doesn’t mean any rules have to be followed. Doesn’t mean certain players have to play or perform to their best ability. It just means you paid to see a football game. As long as they don’t put on a basketball game instead of a football game, they’ve fulfilled their commitment to you, the ticket buyer.
And that goes the same goes for you watching at home. So they’re just free and clear to really do whatever they want within their game, because they own it. They control it. If they want to fix it, they can do it legally. And fans have no recourse.
[00:30:32] Jeremiah: Yeah, for sure. Uh, it is sports entertainment. Um, just like that, WWE,
[00:30:41] Brian Tuohy: uh, I am a fellow in the WWE are essentially the same thing in terms of legal obligations.
[00:30:48] Jeremiah: Now we’re not saying that players aren’t out there, uh, playing for the win or doing that, but all you gotta do is look up. In my opinion. If you just look at the amount of money being thrown into betting on these games, uh, it’s not far-fetched to think that the books would be cooked in one way or the other, so that all these bookies and, you know, Vegas and all that don’t lose out on money because there are so many weeks that it’s like, oh, this team’s going to blow them out.
And then it’s a close game. And Vegas just magically has the point spread like dead on.
[00:31:27] Brian Tuohy: Well, like we said earlier. Yeah. I mean, I, I haven’t seen connection between the two, but it is amazing how often that works out in her favor and in her benefit. And, uh, yeah. It’s like you said, it’s, there’s multibillion dollar businesses all associated with this, whether it’s the NFL, NBC, ESPN, like say the sports books these days Caesar’s and MGM and all those and Nike and Underarmour and all the other sponsors of the NFL.
I mean, everybody’s got a piece of the action and none of them wanted to see. It blow up because of scandal and they don’t want it to see, blow up for people to realize that this is really just entertainment. You know, sport is one thing, but sports entertainment is something completely different. And what we see in the NFL and the NBA and the rest is sports entertainment, and that’s a big, big difference.
It’s a big, big factor in what it can occur.
[00:32:19] Jeremiah: Yeah, I think. It seems like the bigger games are the most fixed. So like your regular season games, they set things up. In my opinion, to make certain teams like the Patriots for a long time had pretty easy wins within their division because all the other teams were par and there’s other teams that are in weak divisions.
So they always seem to be at the top. And, uh, so it seems like they set it up. So. That they can at least get to play offs. And then it seems like the playoffs and the super bowl are where they’re like really put in the fixing and make sure that certain narratives play out.
[00:33:03] Brian Tuohy: Yeah. I would tend to agree because I mean, there’s certain games during the regular season that, you know, even though they say there’s no meaningless games are meaningless, you know, I mean, when the Jaguars played.
Yeah, nobody really cares who wins or loses. It’s just another game, you know, and the lions are playing the bears. Nobody cares. It’s just another game. So what’s the point in necessarily manipulating those games and let’s, maybe you just want to keep them close into the fourth quarter because it’s a nationally televised game, Thursday night, Sunday night football or whatever that we keep people watching to the end.
But in terms of making sure who wins or loses. Yeah. There’s nothing at stake. And like you said too, there’s certain teams, Patriots benefited from a weak division. The Packers have benefited from a weak division. So, you know, certain teams are going to be propelled naturally without anything having to occur during the season to get them into the playoffs.
And then, like you said, that’s when the narratives really kick in and you know, it was amazing. I thought that this past weekend and the divisional round of games, you had the first three games of the four all ended on last second field. And then the bills chiefs game, there was what three, four touchdown scored in the last two minutes.
And then it was finally settled in overtime, which was just ridiculous ending. And the amazing thing I’ve found is in all four of those games, the referees were completely hands off. I mean, I think there was four penalties called the entire bills chiefs game, which is absurd. I mean, as an absurd li small amount of penalties called an NFL game.
You know, the old saying is you can call holding on every play. Well, even if you could call them every other player, every fifth play that should have meant there was at least 10 more flags in that game that didn’t occur much less defensive pass interference and everything else that goes along with it.
But all those subjective calls were ignored. They were all denied by the, you know, the referees. And it’s one of the things you can’t quantify is non calls. You can’t quantify. Well, the referee should have done this to referee should have done that, but they. So, you know, if the referees don’t evolve, they won’t create controversy, they won’t lead to this, you know, conspiracy talk like you and I are having, and then the games will just play out as they should.
But then again, you have a league that’s basically telling us officials don’t follow our rule book, which again, begs the question of, well then why have a rule book
[00:35:21] Jeremiah: and what are your thoughts on them implementing now where they have a guy in New York screening, all. Calls.
[00:35:31] Brian Tuohy: I mean, I think, you know, if the NFL major league baseball to, you know, if they were serious about having everything be called correctly or as near correctly, as humanly possible, then that is a step in the right direction.
You know, I don’t know if robot on pirates, aren’t the best thing for major league baseball, but it would probably be way more correct to than the guy standing behind home plate guessing whether that borderline pitch was a ball or strike and the same with the NFL. I mean, if you have an instance. You know, it was clear.
Player was down and then he fumbled and yet they ruled it a fumble on the field because it happened in the blink of an eye. Then it’s good to have some guy with some oversight going, you know, look, I just saw it on TV. It’s not a fumble, you know, let’s save some time and here we go. That way we go, that’s, that’s fine and dandy.
And I think that’s the way it should be. And I think there should be actually more of that. There shouldn’t be, if they’re, if you’re going to have a guy do that, they shouldn’t have to need coaches channel. It should be just automatically done within the NFL. And they should have multiple eyes looking at it from multiple angles.
Cause they got 10 or 12 cameras on every game, you know, figure this stuff out and get it right. But when you can sit at home and watch clearly on your TV, a guy be inbounds and then the referee tells you he’s out of bounds and after further review, he still out of bounds. Well then you have to wonder what’s going on.
It’s just that it’s. They should have this technology working for them as opposed to continually pushing it off and leaving it up to human error. When in fact, I think it’s just subjectivity in an easy way, but to manipulate these games.
[00:37:00] Jeremiah: Yeah. I saw a huge explosion of, uh, people starting to say that NFL is fixed or manipulated when that, uh, Ram saints game with the blatant pass interference.
That they didn’t call. It seemed like a lot of people started questioning, you know, what is really going on?
[00:37:23] Brian Tuohy: Well, they should, like you say, I mean, again, if you have the ability, if you have instant replay, why can’t you have instant replay? You know, look at a play like that. Why do you have a rule that says, no, you can’t even see to replay on penalties.
Well, why. Especially on something, again, it’s as blatantly missed is that it’s not like when they tried to Institute for past interference after that occurred. And then they’re looking at every little ticky tack, you know, well, did he grab his arm? Did he just kind of touch his arm wheel? You know, don’t do that.
But when you get the really blatant calls that wrong, come on. And what I say, you know, to a lot of people too, is look, you know, if they think the NFL refs aren’t, for example, involved in manipulating games and ask yourself the question of, you know, after it’s saints, Rams. How come the officials involved, weren’t fine.
I’ll come. They were suspended. How come they weren’t fired? I mean, if I just had a job and I screwed up on national television and in the way those guys did, I would probably lose my job or at least be in constant fear of losing my job in the moments after that occurred. And yet these guys received no punishment.
None of these reps receive any sort of punishment. That’s at least publicly made aware and give some no countable. So to me that says that the referees are not screwing up, that they’re actually doing their job exactly. As the NFL wants them to, which makes you really then question the whole situation.
Cause if that’s what the NFL wants them to do, then that means they’re manipulating games. I mean, it’s just, you know, a plus B equals C in my opinion. And that’s what we see because there is no repercussions for bad officiating.
[00:38:56] Jeremiah: Yeah. And, uh, going back to Tom Brady, cause I like harping on him, but uh, There was, I don’t remember what year it was, but it was maybe five years ago.
I don’t know where you could blatantly see him, like conversing with the refs to change a call. And then you saw memes everywhere. That was like all the 12th man on the field or whatever. Yeah.
[00:39:21] Brian Tuohy: Well, there’s, you know, there, there has to be, um, I guess relationships between players and officials and I mean, they talked about it.
The guy who is the NBA ref who got busted by the FBI for gambling on games, you know, he said, and he said that he, you know, when his book he wrote about how certain referees hated certain players and loved others. And that shouldn’t be a surprise. I mean, if you would interact with these people enough, there’s going to be people that you like and people you don’t like, just like getting the other job and the same with the NFL, I’m sure.
You know, the coaches and players constantly. Are begging the rafts hate, you know, I’m being held, please call holding, please call holding. And if the referee, you know, gets logged with the guy, then get, maybe he could still holding flag. And if the referee doesn’t like the guy, maybe he doesn’t, but that’s not the way officiating should be.
It should be pretty strict of, this is the rule. This is how I interpret the rule. You infracted the rule. Therefore you get penalized for it, but that’s again, not exactly what we see in that. So,
[00:40:23] Jeremiah: uh, besides the NFL, what are some examples of fixing in other sports that really stuck out to you?
[00:40:32] Brian Tuohy: I think the biggest one that gets a free pass and I’d want understand why he gets a free pass his game tanking in the NBA.
I mean, basically, I mean, there’s articles written by sports illustrated and other major sports media outlets that essentially begged teams to tank. And if there’s a definition of a fixed game, it’s a tanked NBA game. It’s clear as day because what you’re having to occur is either the ownership of the team or the general manager of the team is literally telling the coach and the players, Hey, we’d rather you lose the win because the more you lose, the more likely we are to get a better draft pick next year.
So don’t go out there and win, go out there and lose. We don’t care if it’s the last 10, 15, 20 games of the season, we know we’re not in the playoffs. And even if we might be in the. We don’t want it to be in the playoffs because we know we’re not going anywhere. So go out there and lose. I mean, that’s just remarkable to me that people are asking teams to do this.
I mean, it should be, you know, hi, can I have a Cinderella story? If you don’t have Cinderella, actually trying to go to the ball of Cinderella would rather sit home. There’s no story. And that’s what game taking to the NBA is. And amazingly like mark Cuban, who’s hailed as this, you know, genius. He literally said it on the Dan Patrick show.
I took my team out to dinner and told them it’s in our best interest. If you have the owner of the team telling you to go out there and lose again, what’s a better definition of a fixed game. And so if you’re saying, you know, regular NBC and regular NBA games can be fixed well, then what about playoff games?
No. Why couldn’t the owner? Tell him the same thing in the playoffs. Hey, look, we’re up three games to nothing. We’d rather have this go to game six because we’re going to make more money. So, you know, these next couple of games in the playoffs, we know. Ah, just let them win and then we’ll, you know, put it back up, put the gas to the floor again in game six and the series.
I mean, it just opens it up to so many different questions and possibilities and again, the NBA gets a complete free pass on the whole situation.
[00:42:26] Jeremiah: Yeah, for sure. Um, you know, if it’s, if it can happen one place, it can happen any place in my opinion, or from my viewpoint.
[00:42:37] Brian Tuohy: Well, yeah, because you’re setting up a slippery.
Like you say, if this regular season game isn’t important that what makes the next one important or the next one or the one after that or any of them important. And that’s my whole argument too, is I said, look, if the NFL only fixed a game this year, you know, for whatever reason, they just fixed whatever, some Monday night football game.
And they made sure teammate B team B, well, that means their integrity can be completely questioned because if they only did it once and I’m wrong on the other 99 times, I think it happens even that one time destroys. Because now you have that situation where it’s open and any game potentially can be influenced if they just did it once.
And I think a smart fan would realize that it’s very likely that they’ve done it at least once.
[00:43:22] Jeremiah: Oh, for sure. So in closing, uh, what would you tell someone that’s like, oh man, I don’t know if I want to watch sports anymore or something like that. Like.
[00:43:35] Brian Tuohy: Well, I’m told by a lot of people that I ruined sports for them because I, unfortunately I make you think about the game hopefully.
And I, you know, I don’t have a problem with it. I don’t necessarily want people to stop watching, you know, if that’s what you enjoy, enjoy it. I mean, I don’t tell people, don’t watch, you know, the Kardashians don’t watch survivor and the bachelor, whatever brings you joy. I just want you as a fan. If you’re a sports fan to be an informed sports fan and understand what it is, you’re one.
And that just because you may project yourself into the game and say, if I was player X, I would give a hundred percent and to, you know, everything I could to win the game, you know, once you’re in there, it’s a job. And it’s like a lot of the jobs. Sometimes you don’t do your best. Some days you don’t care and you know, you just live, you try to live your life.
And that’s what you got to look at sports is you have to understand it’s a multi-billion dollar. It’s legal for them to fix their own games. If they want to, they make all their money. Most of their money through television and television ratings and advertising. So they have to pander to the television audience and you know, what billion dollar business leaves itself up to.
That’s what we believe the NFL and the NBA and the rest do is they all just leave it up to circumstance. And what happens happens when they have the very real ability to control these games and make them as interesting as possible to generate as much viewership as they can, because that’s going to profit them at the end of the day.
And so again, if you want to watch it, I don’t have a problem with it. Just watch it with an open mind and understand what it is you’re consuming. Okay.
[00:44:58] Jeremiah: Yeah, exactly. And definitely just. Enjoy it for what it is like I used to be a die hard fan, but now I’ve kind of just a fan of the game. So I like certain players.
And, um, I still watch it even though I think it’s manipulated and stuff, but,
[00:45:17] Brian Tuohy: and again, there’s no problem with that. I mean, you know, these guys have a talent that few others do and to see talented people, you know, whether it’s an artist, whether it’s a singer, whether it’s a football player is something to watch because it is a unique talent in the.
And it is entertaining. You know, I’m not taking that away from them. I’m just, again, saying, be informed about what it is you’re seeing, because if you go to see, you know, a singer and the singer is not really singing, but they’re actually singing along to an audio track or they’re using Auto-Tune to correct their voice while you’re not really getting what you pay for.
And that’s kind of the same with the NFL is, you know, yeah. These guys are talented and you know, all of these, so many people can throw like Aaron Rogers, but if the game is being manipulated and made sure in Rogers wins, so he can play again next week, then maybe you’re not totally getting what you’re paying for.
[00:46:03] Jeremiah: Yeah, that’s, that’s so true. And, uh, hopefully we don’t ruin sports for anybody, but it’ll, hair’s definitely, I definitely think there’s something going on there. So. Do you have like a website? I know you wrote a book called the fixes in, is there a place where people can find you?
[00:46:24] Brian Tuohy: Yeah, the best place to go is my own website, which is the fix is in.net.
And there you can, uh, contact me if you want to I’ll answer any questions anybody has, and then they can find my books there. And I post things all over the place on there. So if they want to see more of my writing, uh, the fixes in depth net is the best place to go.
[00:46:42] Jeremiah: All right. Well thank you for coming on and talking about.
Rigged sports. And hopefully we didn’t ruin anyone’s, uh, image of football or basketball, or
[00:46:54] Brian Tuohy: does that maybe Tom Brady, right? Yeah. Don’t,
[00:46:57] Jeremiah: I’m so glad he’s retiring. Like it made my day today. Uh, so yes. Thank you for coming on
[00:47:04] Brian Tuohy: and speaking. No problem. Thanks for having me, Jeremiah. I appreciate it.