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Aliens and UFOs

Aliens and UFOs

[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow terrestrials and welcome back. We’re gonna be having a conversation with the owner of a UFO island tour in Hawaii. So we’re gonna talk with Dr. Lisa Thompson here in a moment, and she’s gonna go into her experiences with aliens UFOs, doing her whole island tour thing in Hawaii. But first, if you could like, and review the show, be highly appreciated.

Let me know how you’re digging the show. Just hit a five star review on there. Let me know. Everything’s good. I’ll keep coming out with great content for everyone. I do this for y’all well and myself too, so we can learn together through other people’s experiences. And that’s what it’s all about is broadening our minds, opening our minds to other possibilities, other realities, and remember question everything.

Hello, and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast? I’m your host. Jeremiah. We’re joined today by Dr. Lisa Thompson. She’s gonna talk to us about aliens from Hawaii to tropical paradise down there and, uh, well in relation to where I live, but, uh, we’ll introduce her now. Hello, Lisa.

[00:01:54] Lisa: Hi, Jeremiah. Thanks for

having me.

[00:01:55] Jeremiah: Oh yes. Thanks for coming on. I love all things, aliens and UFOs, so I’m sure we’ll have a lot to talk about here.


and I see your alien floaties behind you or whatever they are balloons

[00:02:11] Lisa: yeah, they’re inflatables. We, um, we use these for marketing, our big island UFO tour, and then we also use ’em for photo shoot opportunities for our customers that come on the tours.


[00:02:24] Jeremiah: So can you, um, explain kind of your Hawaii tours and what got you started with that and how, um, yeah. How do you just go about it? Yeah,

[00:02:38] Lisa: absolutely. So, um, I’ve actually been an experiencer in the alien and UFO phenomena, my entire life. . And so, um, I only, when I moved here to Hawaii, did I actually come like fully out of the closet with that information?

Um, only a few scattered people knew about it, um, because it’s been such a taboo topic and I ha so I have a PhD in biology and all of my, um, fellow scientists thought I was crazy. The ones that I would tell, because they’re like, you know, there’s no evidence. And so I just kept it hush hush so that I could, you know, have when I became a business person, you know, I wanted to be taken seriously so now I’ve made it my business to do this.

But my first conscious experience of being taken in a spacecraft was when I was actually 15 years old. And at the time I was living in Washington state, right outside of Olympia, and the craft that I was taken in, it was a smaller kind of shuttle craft where it was just me and my alien guide. In the craft, he looked very human.

And my question to him actually was, are you human? And the answer was no, but that they camouflage themselves. So they don’t scare us, scare the

[00:03:58] Jeremiah: earth humans. So where were you, um, where were you when this abduction took place? Were you at home or I was

[00:04:07] Lisa: at home. Yep. It was at actually at night. So I was in my bedroom and I don’t remember how I actually got onto the craft.

I just remember being in the craft and flying through space and what it looked like. It was like a, kind of like a bubble where I could fully see out. So the walls were transparent, so it looked like we were just floating through space. I could see the darkness, the lights of the stars. Then we were passing through some different gases layers and the colors were just extraordinary.

We finally got to where we were going. When we landed, I, the conversation was. Through telepathy. So, and that’s how most of these alien races communicate actually. And so when we got there, I asked where we were and he said that we were inside of IO. One of the moons of Jupiter and IO is the most highly volcanic planetary body in our solar system.

So you definitely cannot be on the surface there, but you know, a lot of life exists inside of planets and moons within our solar system. So we’re inside and I was being taken on a tour of the facility where we were, and it looked like a hospital kind of scenario where, um, I could see other earth humans in different rooms, um, being worked on nothing scary, no probes.

And I wasn’t scared at all. I, I felt very comfortable being there. And, and I found out later that I had been with them a lot as a child. And so. This was the first time that I got to have a conscious memory. So we’re, I’m being toured around and I asked, you know, what, well, why am I here? What are we doing here?

And the answer was that we were, we were chosen to see if something happened to the earth, if our physiology and our genetics can handle being there with them or, or a similar kind of environment. Now this is back in 1988, where a lot of stuff was going on on earth. You know, we were on the verge of world war II, all of the nuclear threat that was happening.

And so it did make sense. And then what I later found out was those of us that were chosen to come there with that particular race, it was because our frequency matched theirs most closely. So everyone vibrates at a certain frequency. And so those of us that were, um, that were having this experience had a similar frequency to.

so then, um, at the end of the tour, I asked, I was always a very curious kid. And so I asked, can I see what you actually look like? I wanna see, um, since you’re not human. He did change form for me. And, he was about seven feet, tall, pure white skin, like really chalky white skin, big dark eyes and long red hair.

Then he also had triad tattoos on his cheeks. The, the extremeness of the white skin, the dark eyes and the red hair, um, if you saw that coming down the street, it could produce a fear response . I could see why, like they would camouflage themselves for these earth humans that they were bringing here.

Now I was returned back home. Um, and when I, I was laying in bed and. I I thought, okay, that is the weirdest dream that I’ve ever had. So I just dismissed it as a dream, but I remembered all the details and we were in a spiritual school at the time, my mother and I, and so at the time, you know, I was like, okay, it’s just a dream.

But then a few months later I was reading Whitley’s treater’s book communion, which had come out and in his book, he’s talking about his experiences of being taken by the gray aliens, so completely different race. And at the end of his book, he is interviewing different people that have similar, you know, abduction experiences.

And there’s one guy that has a completely different story. Everyone else has the same story that he had with the grays. But there’s one guy that had been, um, taken to a moon of Jupiter and told he was one of the chosen ones. And then Whitley made a little side comment. I hope it isn’t IO. And as soon as I read that I had head to toe chills, which is my body’s responsive, like there’s truth there, you know, that is real tears coming down.

So I went and told my mom knowing she would believe me. So, and she did. And our school, our spiritual school had some high, like former government people that were attendees of the school. And so there happened to be a man. She knew that knew about the different alien races that our government actually interacts with.

And so she had me tell him the story, which I thought he was gonna think I was crazy, but he didn’t when I described the race, he, he said that, you know, that’s not one that we know about and not one that we work with. However, we don’t know all of them and you had a real experience. So he validated it for me.

And so since then, um, I’ve had contact with other. Alien races. And it was three and a half years ago that I actually met my Arturian family. So I do consider myself an Arturian star seed. And, um, and that’s a whole nother story.

[00:09:44] Jeremiah: sorry, my cat’s trying to make an appearance he always comes around when it’s time for a podcasting yeah, but, uh, yeah, it’s interesting.

You talk about the pale skin with the red hair and all that, cuz I believe there’s, it’s either central America or south America where they have oral traditions from ancient past that talk about that type of being and that they were gonna return at some point. And they say that that might be part of the reason why they got conquered so easily from the Spaniards and all that stuff.

So that struck in my mind when you were talking about

[00:10:27] Lisa: that. Okay. . Yeah, well, and there are groups from Lera and groups from the play eighties that do have red hair, but I think, I think this group from IO that there maybe some kind of hybrid race of, you know, a mixture of a couple of things. Um, they never told me specifically where they were from, um, IO was not necessarily their home.

That was just an outpost for them. And, um, and so I’ve been able to have some communication with them, um, recently, but most of my communication is actually with my Artian family. And so I moved to Hawaii, um, back December, 2020. So in the middle of the pandemic, and when we got to Hawaii, we realized like how much activity there really is on the big island.

I mean, it’s, it’s through Hawaii, but the big island has massive amount of activity and the veil is much thinner. And we are also the most remote place in the world. So it would be safer for them to be here. There’s also a suspected underwater base off the Southern part of the state. There are multiple eyewitnesses of seeing craft coming in and out of the water, all around the island.

Even over in Oahu, there was a mass siding that was on the news. We decided to, um, start a UFO tour. We were inspired because we five years ago, took a trip to, to Sedona, Arizona, where we actually went on UFO tour and got to look through the advanced military night vision goggles, which was just incredible.

And so that’s what we do on our tours. We, um, we teach people how to identify the known objects first and foremost. And then with the goggles, we can see some of the really amazing activity and the skies are very busy right now. , there’s a lot of activity going on.

[00:12:26] Jeremiah: Um, do you have any inclination as to why there’s a high activity currently?

[00:12:34] Lisa: I do. Well, once again, we are kind of in a precarious, um, position on earth where, you know, war is ramping up again, nuclear threat. And so these beans actually are our family. We have up to 22 different alien races in our genetics. And so they are trying to keep us from destroying ourselves. Um, and they don’t want another Atlantis type of situation.

And so they are watching and, and trying to correct whatever they can. They’re not allowed to interfere because we have free will on earth. But when we invite them to come in and connect with us, then they have that ability to do so. We’re also in a time of awakening. Um, there’s more awakening happening now than ever on in our history.

And so some of them are trying to help that process along and they’re watching, observing.

[00:13:36] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely. And I’ve talked to people about this before. It’s like, definitely seems like we’re at that point where like, people are no longer just going along with everything that’s being presented to them.

There’s a lot of more, a lot more questioning and like my show’s motto, question everything. And like, it just seems like we’re at like a pivoting point. And obviously there’s still a lot of people that aren’t like, they’re kind of asleep, so to say, but right. But it seems like more and more people are starting to like question things and not just follow along.

[00:14:16] Lisa: yes, I agree. And, um, even for me, I mean, like I. Feeling comfortable enough to step out and share my stories, my experiences that itself is part of the awakening. You know, those of us that have connections that, um, channel them. So I’ve actually started channeling my Arturians through writing and vocally as well.

And so the more that people are doing this kind of work, um, you know, it’s just, it’s opening up the minds of the people that are asleep and just helping that process

[00:14:52] Jeremiah: along. So all these different alien races, I guess you call it, um, do they have, like you said, they can’t interfere with earth and, and really, they can’t really interfere with earth.

So is there like a, you hear about the galactic, uh, council or anything like that? Uh, do you know anything about that? So,

[00:15:16] Lisa: yeah, the galactic, the, there are different names for it, and there might be different groups. So I’m familiar with the galactic Federation of light. And that, that is very similar to star Trek.

you know, the movies like, and TV shows like star Trek and star wars and the books, um, they are based in reality. And so, um, I don’t directly work with the galactic Federation. They have invited me to ask them to work with them, but the beans that I’m working with are, um, more higher dimensional than that.

And so, you know, I, I know that I could, but there are other people that are working directly with that galactic Federation. Now, anyone who has an experience with any of these beings, whether it’s in their minds, a positive or a negative experience, They signed up for that at the sole level before they were born.

So anyone that is taken and part of the hybridization program with the Zetas and has hybrid children, you know, they, they signed up for that before they came into this, this earth incarnation. And so one of the things that I get asked a lot on the tours are, are there really like bad, like negative aliens out there.

And I talk about this. I just, um, wrote my newest book connection to the cosmos, which comes out August 30th. And in that I’m describing, um, the different dimensions or densities that these beings live in because anything that’s still in third and fourth dimension like earth humans are, we have polarity.

So we have perception of good, bad, right wrong, negative positive. And that is a mechanism for E. It’s that’s simply what that is there for. So there are beings that do reside in that third and fourth dimension that possibly come and interact with earth. They might have, you know, a lot of technology, but aren’t necessarily spiritually advanced.

And, but as a race, they’re not necessarily like across the board, a negative race, just like earth humans. You have people that are service to others and you have other people that are service to self, you know, and want control and power. So the same thing with these being, but the majority of the races out there actually exist in fit dimension and higher where there is no more polarization.

And the underlying universal concept is love and

[00:17:50] Jeremiah: unity. Yeah. It’s um, I guess it’s not the most popular theory or opinion, I guess, in the UFO alien. Thing, but I personally believe that they aliens are more interdimensional. So yeah, when I heard you say that, I was like, yeah, I, I feel where you’re coming from there, cuz like they might be from outer space, but I think they use dimensional travel.

[00:18:23] Lisa: Yes. Yeah. They have, there are some that are, you know, utilizing worm holes and holding space time and all of that. But then others are just multidimensional beings and they can shift what dimension they wanna be in just by simply changing their vibration, just like we can too. So we, in our minds, we can actually raise our vibration and be in a fifth dimensional reality where we’re able to feel that love and to actually see things like fairies or the ETS or aliens that are in those dimensions.

[00:18:58] Jeremiah: Yeah. And I think kids are more prone to connecting to that, cuz I think they’re not tainted by the dimension that we’re in.

[00:19:09] Lisa: Yeah. They, um, they haven’t had the veil come up over their minds yet. Um, generally age eight is when that veil comes down. And so there are some people that I know that never had the veil, um, they’ve been open their entire lives, but they also had parents that didn’t try to say, you know, that’s not real.

And that’s, I think that’s what happens to kids is, you know, the imaginary friends or the, the ghosts or the other things that they’re seeing, um, are real, but the parents just can’t accept it.

[00:19:42] Jeremiah: Yeah. I was talking with someone, I think we were talking about ghosts and stuff and I was like, what if kids that have like imaginary friends?

What if they’re not really imaginary? What if we just can’t perceive them? Yes.

[00:19:59] Lisa: Yes. My, um, several of my friends have kids that had imaginary friends, but I knew they were real and they, and fortunately my friends knew they were real as well. So

[00:20:12] Jeremiah: yeah. Yeah. It would make more sense cuz like why do kids create imaginary friends?

Like I, I don’t know, just my brain wheels spinning. Yeah.

[00:20:24] Lisa: Yeah. Well, and here’s something interesting is that, um, we cannot create something in our mind that doesn’t already exist, that hasn’t been experienced by us. So anything that a child is really creating or, or experiencing, they didn’t just come up with that out of the blue.

That is something that, that is a real experience.

[00:20:47] Jeremiah: Yeah. I, I totally believe that. Um, I think there’s definitely more that meets the eye as far as what we can perceive. I think we’re locked into. this perception that we have, but I think there’s ways, like you said, of tapping into other stuff. Like, I know a lot of people talk about using like substances, like mushrooms or iowaska or DMT.

And I think those are just tools to Pierce the veil and kind of like reconnect with other, with other things.

[00:21:25] Lisa: Yes. Plant medicine is definitely one way to go about that. And then the spiritual school that I grew up in, um, we did different practices and modalities that would really, um, hone in our clear abilities and, you know, things like clairvoyance, Clair, Clair audience, we also practiced remote viewing telepathy, um, things of that nature.

And so when. I was a teenager when we started going to that school, I was 13. And so being exposed to that, um, at such a young age was huge in me, accepting who I am really as an adult and not shutting down and not having to unpack any religious dogma that might have, you know, that other people have to

[00:22:18] Jeremiah: experience.

Yeah. And it’s, uh, funny, you mentioned remote viewing. It’s like, you’re like reading my brain. I don’t know. But it’s like, um, the government, like people want to say, oh, that’s just woo woo or whatever. But like, if there was nothing too remote viewing, why does the government have a remote viewing team? They know something’s up.


[00:22:43] Lisa: exactly. Exactly. And that was part of actually the, again, the spiritual school that I was in. The government, it was a high enough profile school and what we were learning that they did have CIA and other government officials infiltrate the school to see what we were doing. Um, yeah.

[00:23:03] Jeremiah: so when you were, um, aboard this spaceship and this to retrial, I’ll say, um, what other things were conveyed to you like, or did they do any tests on you or was it just a like exploratory explaining type of deal?


[00:23:24] Lisa: that particular, um, experience that I was able to remember was more of me getting to ask the questions and, and being shown what was going on. There were other times previous to that, that they had been, you know, working on me physically, but this particular trip that I got to remember there wasn’t, um, any of that going on and.

you know, a lot of people who have contact experiences or, and I don’t like the word abduction, cuz it has a negative connotation. So, um, I love Lisa Royal Holt. She’s re coined that to call it temporary detainment cuz everyone is always returned . And so in, in my experiences with them, um, I feel like I got to remember this one, you know, most, all the other memories can only be pulled up through regression.

And that’s one of the modalities that I do actually, which now I understand why I was so attracted to that modality, but I was able to remember this to plant a seed for the work that I do now as a galactic ambassador. Whereas had I not been able to remember that and have that experience with that government official, you know, validating my experience.

Then I would’ve just been in dream state and thinking that, okay, that was just a dream for probably my entire life.

[00:24:50] Jeremiah: And then during this experience, you had mentioned that you saw other people as well. And did you ever come in that you remember, did you ever come in contact with other temporary detainees?

[00:25:06] Lisa: Um, actually they were in separate rooms, but the doors or the curtains were kind of open. Um, so it really was like, it was like being maybe in the ER, where you can see into some of the rooms, but again, nothing scary was going on. And so, no, I did, I did not have any interaction talking to the earth humans.

It was really just me and the one guide.

[00:25:34] Jeremiah: Yeah. I’ve heard a lot of a book. I can’t get off of the abduction word that’s okay. I’ve listened to a lot of abductions and it always seems like there is one being that is kind of a sign to taking you where you need to go. And, uh, except for like the initial, the initial, like when they take you from your bedroom or wherever, then there seems to be three, but, and you have three back there behind you, but

Yeah. Um, well, and

[00:26:05] Lisa: I think that, that depends on which group it is because they have different technology. Mine, um, again, it, the shuttle crap that I was in, it was just me and my guide. There were just two of us. He was able to whatever technology to raise my vibration, to get me into that craft. It only, it took that technology.

Yeah. But I have heard, I, I know what you’re talking about with the three and that I think tends to be with the Zetas. That, um, they have multiple people or beings that are getting the people onto the

[00:26:42] Jeremiah: craft. I think the Zetas are like your typical grays, right?

[00:26:48] Lisa: Yeah. There are a lot of different gray races.

And so they all get thrown into one kind of category and, you know, some people perceive them as negative, some people positive. Um, but like I said earlier with the different races, you know, you have some that are higher dimension. Now, what I understand about the, the Zeta Reticuli that specific race, um, that are doing this hybridization program, they are higher dimensional beings.

They are working for the greater cause of the universe. And so what, with this hybridization program, we have agreed with them as earth humans to create a, an evolved hybrid. The Zetas can reincarnate into, and that we as earth humans, if we choose to, we can reincarnate into that form. And so these are beings that have the best qualities of the zes and the best qualities of the earth humans.

[00:27:49] Jeremiah: Yeah. I’ve always been fascinated with that hybridization program. And I know there’s like two different camps. There’s the more positive one like you, and then obviously there’s a camp that’s like, no, it’s for evil or bad. And

[00:28:08] Lisa: yeah. Well, and again, what I understand and in the spiritual work I’ve been doing, like my entire life is that the people who have that more fear based or negative outlook it’s because they don’t understand how soul contracts work.

And so they think they’re being taken against their will. But they’re not, cuz they can’t be everything. Every experience that we have with earth humans, with other being we sign up for, um, before we come into this incarnation. And the other thing that’s, that’s really interesting is that, you know, people who have those experiences, um, some of ’em do get regressed, but the regression doesn’t go deep enough.

And so when you still have ego involved, um, you haven’t gotten the ego totally out of the way. If people already have that fear based mentality, haven’t worked through the shadows of their mind, then that’s what they’re gonna experience. They’re gonna just remember maybe some fear that all the people who get regressed to a deep enough level, then they fully understand the picture, the bigger picture of what happened.

And then there’s no more fear. And so the work of Dolores cannon, she was instrumental in. showing this with 35 years of regressions, you know, that she did, they’re not one of her clients who had these, um, temporary detainment experiences, um, ever came out of that regression still with fear or, or knowing not what happened.

Yeah, I just, so that’s a really important thing to know.

[00:29:49] Jeremiah: Yeah. I just got done reading Dr. Jacob’s book of, uh, it’s called secret life. And it’s about his hypnotic regressions of, uh, temporary detainment people. And, uh, there’s a lot of insight in that book. So if anyone that’s listening is into abductions, definitely go get secret life by Dr.

Jacobs, cuz it really dives into people’s actual experiences and stuff. And it does seem like at first the people are kind of scared to like, remember. But then afterwards, they kind of get a clear picture of what happened to them. And then it seems to help

[00:30:34] Lisa: them. Yes. Yes, exactly. And I mean, again, we, a lot of people have fear of the unknown and there has been so much negative press my whole life.

I’m turning 50 this year throughout my entire life, negative press with the government, the media with Hollywood portraying these things as, oh my God, there’s, they’re gonna come and get us. They’re bad where they’re not, you know? Yes. Maybe there are a few out there that are a little more nefarious.

However, the majority of them know they love us. They, we are their family and they want us to succeed. They want us to

[00:31:16] Jeremiah: survive. Yeah. The, um, ones that always get the, I don’t know what else to say other than bad rap is. The draconian, I think

[00:31:26] Lisa: they’re called yeah, the draconian and some of the reptilians as well.

And again, just like, you know, if they’re third and fourth dimensional, they’re polarized. And so there are some that have an agenda of service to self. Um, but then there others within that, those races that either are higher dimensional beings, or they understand the service to others mentality the cosmic law of one, you know?

[00:31:54] Jeremiah: Yeah. If they’re on lower, lower dimensional vibration, then it would make sense that there’s just like people there’s good people, there’s bad people. There’s people that are kind of in the middle and there’s people that are only out for themselves and people that are super giving. And so it makes sense that it would traverse all types of races that are out

[00:32:19] Lisa: there.

Yes, definitely. And the other thing that I do want to, um, to share is that whatever vibration you yourself are vibrating at attracts that vibration. And so if you are a high vibe loving person, then that’s gonna be your experience with people and with these, um, other beings. So if you are low vibe, you’re negative.

Well, you’re gonna attract that. Yeah. Some people don’t like hearing it , but, but it’s

[00:32:56] Jeremiah: reality. Yeah. It’s like whenever I’m in a bad mood or like a really bad mood, things just seem to go wrong. so like, mm-hmm, , I’ll drop something or, and I’m already mad, but then I’ll like drop something or I’ll screw up something.

And then it makes me more mad. And, but then on the opposite side, if I’m. like in a really good mood. Seems like everything just flows and everything’s great. And

[00:33:26] Lisa: yes. Well, they, you know what they, the higher being, they want us to be in a place of love. Like true love, not, not like physical, sexual love, but like real unconditional universal love.

And they want us to be in a state of joy when we are in joy. That’s when magic happens.

[00:33:47] Jeremiah: Yeah. And I think, and I don’t like the, what was that book that Oprah was pushing for a while? The secret. Yeah, the secret. Yeah. I’m not a huge fan of that, but I do believe that kind of like you’re saying the energy that you put out and the thoughts that you put out, um, definitely have an effect on what transpires and I think the whole, like.

If you keep saying you can’t do something, you won’t do it. But yes, if you, if you say I’m gonna do this and you work towards it, it seems it tends to happen more often than not. Yes.

[00:34:29] Lisa: I completely agree with that one. Um, yeah, on that topic of the secret. So the book doesn’t go into the science behind that.

Um, but there is, there is underlying science to how it works and it’s quantum mechanics. So, you know, when we are able to really like visualize and feel it fully in our body as if it’s already happened and that’s the key, it can’t be like, I want this to happen because if you keep wanting something to happen, then that’s what you’re gonna keep getting is want.

But if, if it’s something that you can really. Um, override whatever your subconscious mind is doing and be fully present in that reality as if it’s already happened. And again, physiologically you’re feeling it, then that’s how things can manifest.

[00:35:26] Jeremiah: Yeah, I believe. And this is just my woo. Woo is like, yeah, I think there’s like a divine energy.

You could call it God’s help or whatever you want to call it. Um, where, like, for instance, with my podcast, I tried to do something before I started my podcast and everything just felt forced and hard. And cuz my heart wasn’t really there. Like I enjoyed it, but wasn’t really like my passion passion. But then I started my podcast and it’s like my passion.

So everything just seemed to flow and it was kind of like that divine forces. like helping me along kind of like I have to put in the work. It’s not easy, but it’s like, I don’t feel the resistance. Like I felt with the other thing I was trying to do. Yeah.

[00:36:20] Lisa: Well, and that’s the beautiful thing. When you, when you are coming from a place of like, following your passion, following your joy, that again, that’s where the magic happens and the universe wants us to be in flow with it.

It doesn’t have to be hard. Yes. There is energy that we have to put into making something happen, like the production of a podcast or the writing of a book. However, if we are really experiencing that, that joy and that passion, it doesn’t feel like work.

[00:36:54] Jeremiah: Yeah, exactly. Like it is work, but it doesn’t feel like work

Yes. If that makes sense to anybody, but, uh, yeah. So it makes sense to me it makes. So you have a book coming out. What is the, what is all involved in that?

[00:37:14] Lisa: Okay, so the book is called connection to the cosmos and the subtitle is remembering your galactic heritage and embracing your oneness. And so the book has four major sections in it.

Um, it’s basically an intro to the terminology and of UFOs, you know, UAPs what these dimensional beings are, some of who they are as well as there’s a, I have a whole section on the galactic evolution of a humanoid form in our, in our galaxy, which is fascinating. I’m a former evolutionary biologist. So I love looking at how things, um, change and how they’re, how they’re evolving, how they come to be.

I also have a section where I share a lot of my stories. So more than just my ex experience in IO, um, I, I have a lot of different channeled information, um, in there as well. And I, the final section actually teaches people, some different practices, techniques, modalities on how to enhance this connection with themselves, but also with higher dimensional beings, whether it’s fairies, angels, ETS, and ultimately with source.

[00:38:40] Jeremiah: So you said, um, you said that you were an evolutionary biologist, so I’m gonna have to ask because it’s in my sphere, this type of thing is like, what do you think as far as human beings. There’s obviously the standard theory of we evolve from apes and then you have the whole camp that’s oh, we were tampered with, by aliens.

And so what’s, what’s your take on yeah. And the missing link part and how it has not been found yet as far as I know. Right,

[00:39:19] Lisa: right. No. And, and this is something, again, I talk about in my book and I love this topic because I, um, for graduate school, I went to university of Chicago and I had a position at the field museum in natural history.

And so at, at the museum, we actually had a display for, for the people coming in the museum on human evolution. And we had Lucy and we had, you know, some of those, but then where’s the missing link, right? So this was always part of my sphere. Even though I studied, um, animals, not human evolution, Um, I, I was still fascinated and I am definitely in the camp of the alien tampering.

That’s why earlier I said, we have up to 22 different alien races in our DNA because different groups have come throughout our earth history to inject their DNA into us. And, that was for upgrading our body. There are also, um, yes, we do have some primate in us, but we also, we have these different races and I have a very clear memory and I don’t call it past lives anymore.

I call it parallel lives because at the quantum level, all timelines exist simultaneously. So everything is existing now, but I have a parallel life where I was one of these alien beings coming to earth in ancient Egypt. I was a Syrian and we were master geneticist and we were upgrading the body to be able to hold more.

So I, I have a full memory of that as well as there’s, um, channeled information, highly reputable, channeled information that shares about that galactic history. And then up, up through season 15, I was a huge ancient aliens fan. I’ve seen every single episode, the last three seasons, not as and they’ve changed their messaging to more fear based.

But through season 15 was I, I love the information that they share and the people they have on the

[00:41:29] Jeremiah: show. Yeah. And that show whether you, you know, agree with it or not, or if you’re a fan of it or not, I just like that they present information that is not like you wouldn’t find it. in the mainstream, so to speak.

And it also made a lot of people question things and, and wonder like, well, what really did happen? Like some things don’t add up. Yeah. From what I was told. It just, I like that it makes you question. You can, like, when I watch the show, I’ll think of something, be like, oh, and then I’ll go look it up and hear different perspectives on it.

So, I like that aspect of like, I can, and then I was just in Peru and we went to all the like Machu Pichu and, uh, lake Titi, Kaka, and all that stuff. To see it in person compared to like TV, like it’s a whole different ballgame cuz some of those stones, like they look big on TV, but like when you’re standing next to it, it’s like a whole different perspective cuz they’re just so massive.

It’s like, how did primitive people. Primitive tools like do this. Like, it just doesn’t add up. It doesn’t make sense. Right. And if you see it doesn’t we went to inch and aliens live in New Jersey and, uh, it was a fun time and yeah, I’ve definitely been a fan of that show as well.

[00:43:01] Lisa: Yeah. Glen Peru and my husband and I, we were supposed to go, um, on a trip this month.

However, it got postponed next year, unfortunately. So I’m looking forward to seeing all that stuff in person as well. But you know, one thing of being here on the big island, we’re home of goddess pale and Pele is she talks to me, she channels through me a little bit and she wants people to know that the gods and goddesses around the world are ancient aliens.

They really are. So she that’s, you know, that’s the premise of that show, you know, and emit from coming from her. She’s like, It’s true.

[00:43:44] Jeremiah: So then, um, and you might not, that’s not, might not be your wheelhouse, but I’ll ask anyway, since we were talking about evolution and whatnot, do you think that the, um, whole like Bigfoot phenomenon is like a separate branch from like humanity?

Like what, like a early ho that was left alone, so to speak and to like have natural, uh, evolution or whatever.

[00:44:13] Lisa: So I love Bigfoot. So I’m from, I, again, I grew up in Washington state and always a huge squash fan and believer. Um, you know, most of the cryptozoology stuff, even though like I was a serious university of Chicago, you know, PhD student, I was very open minded.

So like mermaids, you know, all of it. They are real. Um, now what they are, that is the question. And my, my idea has kind of changed over time and what Bigfoot really is or where they’re from. So at one point I thought that they were just, you know, a primate group that was left alone. Like you’re saying, however, um, in the work that I’m doing now in this, you know, alien et world, new information has come about where Bigfoot actually came from.

And they resided on the planet called mal, which was the planet between Mars and Jupiter, which is now the aide belt. So their planet was destroyed and they are interdimensional beings. They travel interdimensionally. So, the reason why we don’t have that physical evidence, or at least not a lot of it is because they can go in and out of dimension very easily.

I have a very good friend that actually channels the Bigfoot collective. She’s been on my PA podcast a couple times and she, um, she’s gotten information from them about like why they have this sent and she doesn’t know, she’s not a scientist. She would never come up with this. But what they told her was this, the stench that people smell when they’re having that experience is because it’s a chemical residue traveling.

Interdimensionally the way that they do. So I thought that was fascinating.

[00:46:10] Jeremiah: Yeah. I’ve definitely heard the, the take on Bigfoot being interdimensional and also explaining why they seem to also have some type of connection with UFOs and stuff like that. And, um, it definitely makes sense. And like you said, the fact that there isn’t a lot of evidence for them and we haven’t.

well, as far as I know, haven’t had like a actual Bigfoot body, uh, you know, recovered or anything could explain mm-hmm the interdimensional aspect.

[00:46:46] Lisa: Yeah. So for me, um, knowing about these other dimensions and really plain in that realm has, has allowed me to believe that that is really what could be going on or is going on.

Yeah. I

[00:47:00] Jeremiah: just, I had to ask cuz you know, yeah, no,

[00:47:04] Lisa: I love it. I, I, anything, anything of these topics is in my really just I would say. Yeah. And, and on the same note, like mermaids, um, there was that the documentary that came out several years ago on the mermaid, um, that, that, or I guess there were several of them, but there were, um, you know, supposedly, um, what’s the fish people, Noah.

That they had captured one or had had evidence of mermaids and all of that, and that the Navy sonar stuff was killing them off. Um, now mermaids are real beings. And again, I don’t know if they travel, interdimensionally like the Bigfoot, but I think that they might, but they come from the serious star system.

And again, I have kind of like, I have that memory of being a Syrian, um, genetic engineer. I also have a memory of being a me person, um, in, around, um, serious.

[00:48:11] Jeremiah: Yeah. And, um, well, I don’t know what you’ve found, but I think people’s perception when you say mermaid is like, you know, Ariel from Disney or whatever.

Right. But like, I’ve heard a lot of stories where they actually. Are not very attractive and, uh, can be kind of vicious too, if, if provoked and it’s not like what you typically say, when you tell someone mermaid, they just think, you know, those meme chose for teen girls.

[00:48:42] Lisa: It’s girls. That’s pretty right. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and um, when I was experiencing my mermaid body, I didn’t have a mirror to see what I looked like, but I, I remember feeling how strong and powerful the tail was for swimming. And I loved that sleek body. Like I, Ugh. If I could just be in that sleek body here in the ocean, in Hawaii. I would love that.

[00:49:06] Jeremiah: Yeah. Nice warm motion and . Yes. Or is it warm there? I don’t know.

[00:49:12] Lisa: Yeah, it is warm. Okay. It is warm.

[00:49:14] Jeremiah: Cause I heard the Pacific ocean is colder than the Atlantic, but it is, I guess, around the islands. It’s warmer.

[00:49:21] Lisa: Yeah, it is. It’s beautiful.

[00:49:24] Jeremiah: I bet I’ve never been there, but one day I hope to. I’ve been to the Caribbean, but that’s it.

Um, okay. But yeah, I would, when I was in Peru, our tour guide, um, my fiance was like, Hey, can you be straight with us and tell us, like, what you really experience on lake tidy, Kaka. He was like, yeah, we see UFOs. There’s tales from my ancestors of Mer people being in the lake and stuff like that.

When I say lake, this lake is huge. Like, it feels like you’re on an ocean. Um, yeah. It’s not like you’re typical like little lake or anything, but, um, right. But yeah,

[00:50:09] Lisa: he more like one of the lakes or something.

[00:50:12] Jeremiah: Yeah. It’s like one of the great lakes. It’s humongous. Yeah. And, um, yeah, he, he told us like, and he’s from one of the islands on the lake and he’s like, yeah, we experience all kinds of weird stuff out here.

[00:50:26] Lisa: We’ll do the craft. Um, cuz I’ve heard that there, the craft do come in and out of the water, um, in lake city, Kaka, like they do around the Hawaiian islands. Did he talk about that at all? Um,

[00:50:39] Jeremiah: I don’t believe so. I, but he said that he’s heard, uh, stories and I don’t remember if he said he himself has saw anything, but he talked about lights flying over the lake and, and if you’ve been on the lake, like there’s nowhere lights would really come from cuz the people on the islands don’t really have like, I mean some of them have electricity, but it’s mostly from like solar panels and uh, okay.

So yeah. He’s yeah, so it, yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

[00:51:14] Lisa: It’s real activity yeah, that’s amazing. Well, I, I look forward to experiencing that next summer when I am

[00:51:21] Jeremiah: there. Yeah. And there’s actually, um, , we didn’t stay on one of the islands, but he said they actually started doing, uh, what’s that called Airbnb where you can actually rent like a house on one of the islands on the lake.

And, uh, he says a lot of people come to do star gazing and stuff like that. Cuz like it’s such high elevation and there’s no like light pollution. So the sky is you can see like all the stars and everything.

[00:51:51] Lisa: Yeah. It’s incredible. I know actually I do plan on taking my, um, military night vision goggles when we go

[00:51:59] Jeremiah: oh, definitely do that.

Yeah. and um, yeah, just if you ever need, you know, travel advice there, let me know I’ve been there twice already, so

[00:52:11] Lisa: excellent. Now I look forward to it. So when you were there, did you, um, do any of the plant medicine or anything like that as part of your experience?

[00:52:21] Jeremiah: Um, no, we didn’t, uh, we were just there for like seeing the ruins and, uh, stuff like that.

So, no, I never got around to doing that. We never really made it to the Amazon. I think Machu Pichu was about as close to the Amazon as we got, but, uh, okay. It’s definitely a thing there. And people go there for that and they, all the people there know all about it. And, um, it’s not a taboo thing there, I guess you could say it’s kind of like accepted.

They’re just like, oh yeah. It takes you to other dimensions. right. because everyone something I’m.

[00:53:04] Lisa: So, yeah, I was just curious if you had had the, had, had that experience or not. So

[00:53:10] Jeremiah: I have not, but I, I know a lot about iowaska and stuff cuz listening to other podcasts and actually interviewed. A lady on my podcast who had a pretty interesting experience where iowaska became her matchmaker.

And, um, okay. Basically she only had one like visionary trip, I guess you could say the other night she said there was nothing, but, um, basically it told her it’s time to settle down. When you go back home, if you settle down, you’ll find the love of your life. Sure enough. She went home and found the love of her life and it was an interesting story and okay.

Um, and there’s a lot more to it, but in the short, short story you have iowaska was her like matchmaker mm-hmm, interesting. So, um, for the people listening, where can they, uh, find your works and contact and everything like that?

[00:54:18] Lisa: Thank you. So my website is there are two different ways to get to it. You can, the easy way is www dot mystic, manta mystic,

Um, and or you can go to www dot Dr. Lisa J Um, if you are interested in coming to Hawaii, going on one of the UFO tours, that website is big island, UFO I also have a YouTube channel with my podcast, which is connection to the cosmos with Dr. Lisa Thompson. Um, and I’m

[00:54:56] Jeremiah: on Facebook. Yes.

And I will make sure to link everything in the, uh, show description. So anyone listening, you could. Look at the show description, all her links will be there and, uh, definitely check it out. She’s got a lot of cool stuff. I was looking through her website and she makes me want to take a trip to Hawaii now because it just looks so like nice.

I think you had a picture with like a manta Ray, like swimming through the ocean. And I was like,

[00:55:24] Lisa: man, we, uh, one thing that’s unique about our island and especially the Kona side of the island is we have the only resident population of manta raise that lives here a year round that you can actually go out at night and experience them every night.

That’s so awesome. And they are magical higher dimensional beings for sure.

[00:55:47] Jeremiah: Yeah. There’s I know this is kind of a side tangent, but the, uh, there’s definitely thought of water beings like dolphins for one like super intelligent and octopus, surprisingly. A lot of people say octopus is they are more intelligent than you would ever think.

Uh, they are indeed. So it’s just interesting. Yeah. That there’s a whole new world down there.

[00:56:19] Lisa: well, and again, Sirius has a lot of watery planets, and so all of those creatures, so that the sharks, the octopus, the dolphins, the whales, the Mer people, they ha they have lives, um, in these planetary bodies around Sirius as well.

[00:56:37] Jeremiah: So like those higher dimensional, I’m assuming just for my research, like they’re more light and energy. They don’t have like physical

[00:56:46] Lisa: bodies. Yeah. It depends. So fifth dimension still has a physical body, um, that if you’re, if you’re vibrating, so Faries fit in that realm of the fifth dimension, for instance, So there are people that can see fairies because they can raise their vibration high enough to see them.

Um, as soon as you hit six dimension, you’re starting to lose more physical form. You are definitely more of an energy body, but there is still a physical presence, but then anything above that really is just light and energy. But some of these beans, again, they have the ability to shift their vibration.

So they can be a little more physical, um, to interact with us rather than in their higher state of

[00:57:30] Jeremiah: being. So, um, just so I have it clear for my own brain so they can choose to manifest on earth as like, whatever.

[00:57:46] Lisa: So yeah, some of, some of the different alien races are able to lower their vibration temporarily to appear physical.

um, some are already just in fifth dimension and when you’re in fifth dimension, it’s pretty easy to go down to fourth dimension, but you know, if you’re seventh dimension, it takes, it’s hard. Earth is so dense. This physical reality we live in is so dense and slow and heavy . Yeah. And so for them to energetically be in that space, it’s not, they don’t wanna be there for very

[00:58:20] Jeremiah: long.

Now, last question I promise. Um, I’m good. I just, there’s a lot of stuff firing right now. Um, so in your belief, what happens once we like pass away? Like, do we have our spirit or,

[00:58:40] Lisa: yeah, so, um, again, all the work that I have done myself, but then also with my past life parallel life regression therapy that I do with clients, we, we all have a.

And we we’re simply energy. And so we change form. So we then move on to whatever our next life is. And I have had some clients I’ve had my own experiences, but some of my clients, some of the lives that they’re living, like one was a tree for a thousand years. Um, one was a dragonfly. One was creative energy permeating throughout the earth being creative inspiration.

Um, one experienced herself being a planet that ended up destroying itself. Actually we did, she’s the same one that channels the Bigfoot. So, the planet that she was was actually mal deck and it was filled with fear based beams, not, not necessarily the Bigfoot, but a different group, and they destroyed the planet so that, so we have all of these other realities that we’re living.

Ultimately we’re experiencing these things to feedback, to source. You can call it universe source God, whatever, but we are all one, we are all connected. And so we’re just simply having individual experiences that feed back to the, the greater oneness. Yeah.

[01:00:08] Jeremiah: I definitely like that theory myself just cuz it just, I don’t know.

Makes sense to me personally. yeah.

[01:00:18] Lisa: Well I have a lot of evidence from again, clients that I have worked with from my own journey that I’ve done. And then there are multiple people that work in that realm. Um, again, Dolores cannon, she’s a really prolific writer of that kind of information. And so, you know what I, what, you know, take, take what resonates with you and filter it through.

Okay. Is true for me. That’s that’s how I do and for me it’s true.

[01:00:46] Jeremiah: All right. Well thank you for coming on and speaking with us, definitely enjoyed talking all. Things with you and definitely got me thinking, and my wheels are smoking right now. Cuz I’ve got so many like things firing off and thinking about all the things we’ve talked about.

So yes. Thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. And definitely enjoyed it. It thank you.

[01:01:11] Lisa: I did too. I love talking about all of these things, so I appreciate you having this podcast.

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[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything. Your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, earthlings and welcome back. Thank you for tuning in again for another amazing episode of what if the wrong podcast we’re gonna be talking with Rosie, and we’re gonna be talking about her Ayaka journey and her experiences with the shamonic brew and how mother Ayaka became her matchmaker and helped her find the love of her life.

So we’ll get to that in a moment, but first. If you could like and review the show, be highly appreciated. Let me know how you’re feeling about it. I try to bring the best content. I do this for every one of you that listens, make sure your mind stays sharp and that you question everything. Also, you can go to if you want to contact me, be a guest on the show, shoot me some information, whatever you want to do, you can go on the contact page there and shoot me a message.

I respond to all messages in a timely manner. So I won’t take up much more of your time. Let’s go tripping out with the Ika journey of Rosie. And remember question everything. Hello, and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast? I’m your host. Jeremiah. I’m joined today by Rosie. And she’s gonna talk to us all about her Ika journey and we’ll, uh, explain a little bit about.

What iowaska is before we get into her experiences for those that don’t know about it. So I’ll introduce her now. Hello, Rosie.

[00:02:17] Rosie: Hi. Nice to meet you

[00:02:18] Jeremiah: all. Yes. Thank you for coming on and speaking with us about your experience.

[00:02:24] Rosie: I’m really excited. Can’t wait to share with you. It’s is a bit out there

[00:02:30] Jeremiah: as most.

Visionary experiences so, yeah, with iowaska, it’s a brew that they, um, drink in the, mostly in the Amazon regions in south America. I’m sure it’s in other places too, but the main place is like Northern Peru and parts of Brazil. So it is the, and I can’t pronounce these words cuz they’re scientific, but.

CAPI V and it’s mixed with the verus shrub and it makes this brew that people drink and it gives you hallucinogenic, uh, experiences. And a lot of people say that it’s like the soul vine, cuz it makes you really see yourself and has introspective properties. And you also. You know, get visions of life and that afterlife and other experiences that might be like parallel universes or dimensions.

And so we’re gonna talk with Rosie and find out what she experienced when she was, um, on this. So we’ll, uh, talk about it now. So where were you at in life when you decided to do this and where did you. Uh, experience this .

[00:03:58] Rosie: Yeah. So my journey with iowaska has been quite a long one now. I must say it’s been about seven or eight years since I first had, uh, sitting with iowaska.

And, my very first one was in Peru. . Then I came back and was actually doing some work, um, in Europe with, uh, psychedelic mushroom. So it took me, it is taken me on a journey with other plant medicines as well. I ended up actually in the pandemic. The part that I want to talk to you about was when I in the pandemic, went to Costa Rica.

I was very lucky to be given a volunteers position at an ICA retreat center. Um, and so I got to see everyone else go on these weird and wonderful journeys. And when not enough people took up their retreat, I got to sit with the medicine. So I ended up having quite a lot of sittings there. Um, and a lot of journeys and transformation happened.

And. during that time, a lot of the boxes that you mentioned were ticked in terms of, uh, what I experienced, it was quite a, I dunno, like a changing point in my life in many ways. Um, and then since returning back to the UK, obviously psychedelics are illegal here. So, um, The closest thing that we can do is go to the Netherlands to work with psilocybin mushrooms.

Um, but, uh, things like iowaska just aren’t really available or legal around it. So, um, so yeah, it was, it was a long journey between my very first sitting with it and up until cost Ari massive, been about a five year gap. But, coming back to it, it was. completely different and exactly the same all at once, which is a really weird thing to, to say it felt like familiar.

So, when I was in Peru, I went to, uh, Iquitos, which is the jungle in the Northern part of Peru. I had not really worked with plant medicines. I’d burnt out as a secondary school teacher. I wanted to know what I was meant to do with my life. Cause I couldn’t go back to working in the school and just wanted to kind of find myself, you know, um, and so that took me on that journey.

Um, and I, I sat with a really traditional. we call it a mistro the person who will, uh, work with the medicine with you. Um, and so we might call it a shaman here in, uh, in the west, but in the indigenous cultures, they call themselves maestros or the healers. and so they will serve the medicine within a ceremonial context.

So it’s not like, um, you know, sometimes when people think of it, they think of like taking acid at a party or something like that. This couldn’t be further from a, a party substance. It makes you work really hard. Um, so I was really surprised as you can probably hear I’m English. Um, and we are quite kind of polite and reserved people.

and within two hours of this ceremony, beginning, people were throwing up, were screaming, we’re shouting one person soiled themself. I was like, what have I got myself into? This is nuts. Um, and so how

[00:07:24] Jeremiah: would you, um, did you go to like an actual, like, uh, iowaska center or retreat? Or how did you find out. Like where to go and what to do.

[00:07:36] Rosie: So I’d been in a, uh, in a hostel in Cusco and I’d just been kind of hanging around, trying to see what was next. And somebody came there, a guy who was backpacking had came there and he said, I have had the most transformational experience with my life. And we got into talking and over the next three days that he was staying there, he just told me all of these.

Ridiculous stories about how he’d transformed all of these things within him. And he felt this new sense of peace and he he’d met God. And I was like, what? This is wild. And, um, he was like, well, I can, I can introduce you to the people. And they were really small local family run business. They weren’t like one of the big retreat centers.

It wasn’t a massive commercial job. And I feel really lucky for that. That, that was my first experience. actually because I speak some Spanish. Um, it was okay for me, but I think if you didn’t you’d have found it hard cuz they didn’t speak any English either. So it was a, a real immersion into it. Cuz you’re in the middle of the jungle people you’ve never met.

They don’t speak your language. They’re serving you this weird potion. Everybody’s going crazy. It was, it was a lot to go through, but having heard this other guy’s experience of it and the fact that you don’t just do it once, so you, you go back a few nights in a row. And so it’s actually like, it unfolds over time.

Um, and I’m glad because if I just had that first night, I don’t think I would’ve ever come back to it. it was just so crazy. Um, now

[00:09:13] Jeremiah: how does it taste? Like I heard it taste pretty bad.

[00:09:17] Rosie: It does taste pretty bad. Yeah. I won’t lie to you. It tastes pretty fell. There’s. A real like bitterness of dark chocolate.

And that’s the only thing that’s pleasant about it. So you try and focus on that part of it, but everything else about it, I mean, it tastes like. It’s really hard to say, if you’ve never tasted it, but it’s bitter and it’s thick and it doesn’t like, you know, when you have medicine of some sort and it gives you that kind of yeah.

Feeling in the back of your throat, you know, it’s, it is definitely got that about it. And, um, depending on where you go, like I’ve had it brewed differently, different times. in Peru. It was very strong in a small ceremony cup. Um, but in Costa Rica, they were really, uh, they gave you like a whole bowl of it.

Um, and it wasn’t as like thick or as strong, but it still tasted awful. And you had to drink like, you know, a whole like cereal bowls worth of this stuff. and like people like trying to get it back. especially because also one of the key components, I suppose, of an IER experience is a purge. So when you have Iowasca you probably after a couple of hours or so feel like you need to either throw up or you might need to go to the toilet.

So people are going in and out of ceremony to go to the Lou all the time, or, you know, various different things. And. it’s kind of hard when you’re really tripping as well. so like, you might be like seeing things and like one of, one of my experiences, I was like purging, but like out of my mouth was coming.

like this black sludge. And I don’t know if that’s what was really happening, but like, it looked like this black sludge and I knew that it was taking trauma out of my body and like pulling it into this container in front of me. And like it was, yeah. So the purge is like, not just a physical, like throwing up, but it feels like.

Metaphysical. It feels like it’s healing. It’s like the best and worst sick of your life. You kind of like the, the worst part is knowing that it’s coming, you know, you’re feeling that kind of nausea and everyone around you’s being sick and you’re like, oh no. Oh no. But then when you’re actually having that purge feeling, most people I’ve spoken to say that it’s.

It feels like some sort of release, like they’ve like a release that they’ve always needed. And it really does feel like whether it’s like, sometimes I’ve felt like shame comes out or like really like tough emotions have come out. Um, and sometimes it’s felt like, um, I’m trying to find the right words for it.

Cause it’s so metaphysical. It’s really hard to put into language, but sometimes I felt like. The there’s parts of me that I’ve kind of rejected that have like, out into there so that I can like love myself and feel whole it’s like, I mean, yeah. That’s the best way I could describe it.

[00:12:31] Jeremiah: Yeah. Like past trauma and, uh, feelings of self hate or doubt or stuff like that.

sounds like. Yeah. And sometimes

[00:12:40] Rosie: it’s like random memories of like things that I thought didn’t even impact me. Like when I’d said something at school, you know, high school to somebody that I. You know, had had a, a negative relationship where I had said something to them that had clearly not been very kind, but nice.

And I just had this vivid memory as I was being sick. It came out into the bucket, cuz I mean, I didn’t know it, like I had no idea that that was still in there, but I was holding onto it in some way, but then I kind of felt, felt like I’d released it. Like I didn’t have to feel guilty or ashamed that. Said that cruel thing to them.

So yeah, it, it’s a, it’s an interesting thing. And, um, and I think it really gets to the root of your core issues somehow. Um, and so the way that a lot of people, um, indigenously talk about. Um, I, her as, as a grandmother spirit. So, um, not that it’s just a plant brew or, you know, a, a psychedelic cocktail of things, but that it has its own spirit and that she is a, a grandmother and that she kind of cares for you in that kind of way that a grandmother would scold you if you weren’t living your life.

Right. um, and there really is an energy of that. And, um, and so when you’re in that space, She sometimes can be kind of firm or strict with you. And for me, I had to face up to the fact that, um, I was a real commitment FBE and she, she kind of sat me down and showed me as I was like lying there in my hammock, these different visions of my life of times when I’d pushed away things from this Paris of.

Then she really kindly showed me what, how lovely my life would’ve been if I hadn’t have done that. So, that was a really rough thing to sit with, cuz it did feel like someone was kind of waving their finger at you and going, you know, you’re screwing up here and um, it’s, it’s really crazy.

Cause everybody’s experience is so personal to them and somebody else can come out of the same retreat. Having seen God, somebody can come out, having cried all night about a trauma of their life. Somebody can come out with like the deepest wisdom and, um, all of them happens simultaneously in that same space.

And, uh, and so when I was kind of confronted with this idea of being a commitment. um, and saw how it was showing up in many areas of my life. Um, it took still a few ceremonies before I was able to, to kind of resolve that because it was so entrenched, you know? And so it had to work through why was that the case?

You know, where was my trust issues coming from? You know, where. Where did all that pain come from? And I had a, a particularly sad one where I cried all the way through, because I had to relive the times that I’d been left or abandoned or rejected. And, and it wasn’t until I could heal those things, that it was gonna be okay for me to move forward.

But. sitting there cradling a bucket in the, in the Amazon rainforest, crying about people rejecting you through your life. It sounds like this utterly crazy thing to do, but honestly it was one of the. Turning points of my life. And I had this, um, moment and some of the things like I can really rationalize and say, you know, it might, it might have been my subconscious saying this, or it might have been a part of me that knew more about myself than, than the plant did.

but some of the things that came through were ridiculous levels of synchronicities. So the journey went that I went to the, a second ceremony after that one. And, um, basically this message came up really loud and clear cuz I was. Avoiding being at home in a pandemic, uh, the UK was in lockdown, Costa Rica wasn’t I was in this wonderful retreat center and she basically gave me my marching orders and said, you need to go home because that’s where you’ll find the love of your life.

And he’s waiting for you. Like it’s, it’s ready. And I was like, whoa, what go down into lockdown again? I don’t think so. Um, and so I completely rejected it didn’t want to integrate that piece of wisdom at all. And so the next time, when I came to ceremony, she showed me nothing. She, she switched off. And so I took the same amount of medicine as always did everything as usual.

And I had no experience. I just laid there, listening to people, be sick and being bitten by mosquitoes. and I was like, what , why, why, why is this stopped? You know, I was, I felt like I was really getting somewhere

[00:17:39] Jeremiah: with this. Now, when you had your vision, um, the first time mm-hmm, , I’m just trying to get an idea cuz I’ve never done it or anything.

So like, is it like you were in another. Place or are you still like on earth, but you’re seeing things like, I’m just trying to get an idea, like how immersed it makes you. So,

[00:18:00] Rosie: yeah, it depends. Sometimes I felt really like, not in my body. Like I felt like I was in another space. Um, and I can’t really explain that of the space.

It feels like the ether, I guess that you’re not in your body, that you are some form of. UN unattached soul kind of going around, experiencing these visions. But other times it does feel really physical, especially when you are going through a purge, for example, or. it can really raise your heartbeat as well.

So even just kind of listening to that, and I’ve had like times when that’s felt like a real drum and, um, so there are elements of it when you can be really in your body, but there are definitely elements where you can be into dimensionally traveling. yeah. Um, and it’s interesting as well, because it, each session, even if it’s in the same setting, same medicine, everything can be so different.

So like for example, that one where absolutely nothing happened. There was no change other than she’d given me my wisdom and I wasn’t, I wasn’t working with it. That’s kind of crazy that it had that power to know. Again, I, I came back a couple of weeks later to it and tried again. All that happened.

So, um, I dunno if you have these in the us, but in the UK, you get these contraceptive implants which go under your skin. Um, and basically it lasts for three years. It’s a kind of birth control thing. Um, and so we get them for free here in the UK. So it’s a really easy, simple type of contraception. So I had.

and the only thing that happened the entire trip is that mosquitoes bit it loads. And all I wanted was to take it out of my arm, but it’s, it’s literally under your skin, you know, you can’t, you have to go to the GP to have it removed. So I just wanted to take it out. I was like desperate to not have this thing in my arm.

Um, and I just couldn’t get that feeling towards it, out of my head. So by the time I came back, To the UK. I kind of felt like I’d had my marching orders from Ika . She had sent me home and made me absolutely abhorrent to my contraception. And, um, that was her way. I think of fixing my, my, um, uh, commitment phobia, really, because I came back to the UK.

Um, and I decided, you know, I’m gonna really work on the integration of what I’ve learned, because that’s just as important as the ceremony. And a lot of people think, oh, is the ceremony that fixes you, but actually. it’s kind of like the ceremony is like the doctor and it gives you a prescription of things to go away and do, but you then still need to go away and do those things to feel better.

So, um, I went back and I worked on myself. Like I would a project, you know, I was like reading everything that I could, I was trying my best. Just like be the person I would want to fall in love with like, cuz I knew that my, the love of my life was coming. Was like, I don’t have time. Need to make sure that I’m like ready.

Um, and then funnily enough, um, the, a couple of months after coming back, um, my, one of my best friends, who’s a, someone who’d been in my life since I was about 15. So more than half my life we’d spent together. we realized we were enough in love with each other and that, so wouldn’t have happened if I hadn’t have had that set of experiences.

And by then I had gone to the doctors removed my contraceptive implant and we were together for maybe three months or so. Um, and then we ended. Conceiving a child. So here I am talking to you eight months pregnant. Okay. I’m very much integrating what iowaska taught me because she told me, you know, everything you want is on the other side of this, this fear of commitment.

And she sent me home. She, she match made me and, um, and I, I couldn’t be happier in my life. And it felt like. My biggest block was removed. And it’s crazy that drinking, drinking a tea in the Amazon rainforest tripping out can, can so drastically change your life.

[00:22:35] Jeremiah: Now I’ve heard like some wild IASA stories.

Did you have any like crazy journeys? Like I know some guy, I forget his name, but he was saying how he. Road on the back of a dragon and , it was like telling them life stories and stuff. And did you have any like crazy experiences like that or like anything like, um,

[00:22:59] Rosie: um, Yeah. So I would say my craziest plant medicine experience was actually with magic mushrooms.

The iowaska ones I’ve had have always been really like teaching. And they’ve kind of been quite relevant to my life. Not just like completely weird, like what the hell was that? Um, but I did have, um, a mushroom retreat experience that was completely and utterly bizarre. I lived. Like. A hundred different lifetimes.

And each one of them was terrifying and scary. And it was like all around the world, different cultures, different lifetimes. I was like, at one point I was a fetus that knew it was never gonna see the world. Um, because my mom was gonna have an abortion. It was crazy. There was another part that was like, um, I was.

Basically like living on the streets, I’d had this like destitute life, like people were like looking past MES. They were like passing in the streets was like kicking me and stuff. Like it was really crazy. And they were just like, , I didn’t know that I was still tripping. I didn’t know I was there in my body.

Like, it was like one after another, after another. And like, some of them were just like quite normal. Like one, I was like living in a trailer, I think in, in some part of like north America, like there was another part where I was like living in this, like. house by the river in India. And there was like, um, elephants and things there, but it was like, I dunno, maybe an hour had passed.

And I felt like I’d lived a hundred lifetimes, like time did not go in its like normal way anymore. Um, so I definitely know that those types of experiences out there and when I was volunteering, I saw other people on, I was, I definitely. Those kinds of experiences. Um, one person thought that they had become Jesus, which I thought was quite a remarkable experience.

they got up in the middle of ceremony and like put their hands out as the kind of cross. And they were like, I’m here to save you all. Um, which I think was quite a, uh, Profound experience for him, but I’ve also seen, so as the, as the volunteer, not when I’ve like been part of the ceremony, but just when I’ve been helping there.

one time. There was a grown man who went back to his three year old self and he was fully a three year old. He was, there was no part of him that was still a grown man. And so he was sat there in his pants trying to eat dirt. And we were having to stop him, like from trying to like eat dirt and like pat the floor and his speech had completely changed back to being a child.

Like it was. Yeah. It was a CRI a remarkable thing to see cuz you don’t get to see that every day.

[00:25:59] Jeremiah: yeah, I’ve heard, I’ve heard some wild stories and then some more mild stories like you where the, it was just like a teaching lesson. Like it was trying to, um, explain to the person that, you know, and then one person was like, I guess he said that it was telling or showing.

From other people’s perspective. So, um, he could see himself as he truly was instead of how he perceived himself as, so definitely seems like it’ll try to teach him

[00:26:37] Rosie: yeah. Yeah. I think I was, is really, um, unique in that way that. It’s like, if you read a children’s story, you know, there’s always a moral lesson in there somewhere.

And it’s kind of like, I don’t know many people who’ve had an I Wasco experience that they haven’t come away learning something from, um, and for some people they need to learn something completely crazy and out there. And for other people, they need to learn something that’s a small shift, but yeah, I, I definitely think there’s usually some sort.

If you can Wade through all of the crazy hallucinations and the vomiting and whatever, there, there is something in there that’s something magical. Like I I’m. So my I’ve got a really sciencey background. I’m a psychologist. And so I don’t look at the world through a mystical lens the majority of the time.

But having done this work with these medicines, there is something above what we can. See in this normal day to day life, um, and it’s inexplicable. It really is. There’s a, there’s a deeper knowing or a mystical realm that we can tune into. That’s kind of within us. It’s a, yeah. I don’t have the words for it.

And if I did, I think I’d be a, a. Uh, quite a unique person, because I think most people come out of it and say, it’s inevitable. You know, there’s not there, isn’t the words, but there there’s a, a real sense of transcendence. Uh, and I, I I’ve, I’ve felt it for sure where I felt one with everything in the entire world that exists and.

uh, can, can feel the plants breathing. So I’ll breathe out my carbon dioxide. I can feel the plants breathing in the same and breathing out, and that we’re in this symbiosis or, you know, that, that every single person here in the world is somehow the same person. We’re all, you know, connected by our humanness and those types of experiences.

They’re profound. They really stay with

[00:28:46] Jeremiah: you. Yeah. I can’t imagine. I’ve never done any psychedelics myself, but I always hear stories, not just iowaska, but you know, mushrooms D and T DMT and, uh, stuff like that. And it just fascinates me. Like, there’s gotta be something else out there. Some. I don’t know, parallel universe or something, like you said, within us that can open doorway to something beyond what we can perceive.

Cuz I think we’re, mm-hmm, like kind of programmed to only perceive what we can see, but there’s more beyond that. And I think that’s why like dogs can sense things that we can’t see. And I think children, I was talking with. Ghost investigator. And we were talking about children, ghosts and children having ghost experiences.

And I think kids because they’re not tainted yet by the world. I think they have more connection to the spiritual realm or whatever. And, and I was telling a coworker, like, I. What if kids that have like, um, imaginary friends, what if they’re not really imaginary? What if they’re actually like spirits that they’re talking to?

We just can’t perceive them cuz we’re, you know, more mature and stuff or tainted by the world or whatever. But

[00:30:16] Rosie: yeah, I completely agree with you. I think. Also, when I’ve been in plant medicine, ceremonies, people are communicating with spirits and that’s a real like central part of what a Maestro does.

He’s like singing to invoke certain spirits. Um, and the, the guy that I was staying with, um, in the Costa Rica retreat center, he has a whole book on the DMT world spirits, the entities that come up and, and talk to you through this medicine. They’re so consistent that they’ve come up for hundreds of years to people.

Um, and there’s like this one, which is like half Jaguar and half fish. And like, it, it has its own special name and it comes up and it means certain things. And so many people throughout hundreds of years of these plant medicine ceremonies and met the same creature. Um, and even a, I heard of a friend. had a, when he went into DMT realm, when he smoked some DMT, he would go into this other world where he had a girlfriend.

There was a woman in there waiting for him. um, and then crazily, he hadn’t told anyone about this and his friend went in there and was like, Met this woman. And she was asking for the friend, she was asking for him being like, where, oh, where’s this guy . And he came back and was like, they seem to really like you in there.

Um, in that realm, you know, there’s this purple lady who’s who says, she’s your girlfriend? And he was like, what? Cuz he thought it was just, you know, something that happened inside his mind, but it was the same purple lady that. sort himself. So yeah, it’s, uh, there’s definitely something more than we can than we can prove or, or, uh, yeah.

Be, be sure of, I suppose.

[00:32:16] Jeremiah: Yeah. And I’ve even heard a theory of like, um, psychedelics being used like way back in like ancient times. And that there’s a theory that when Moses. Uh, encountered the burning Bush. I think it was Moses. Yeah. that it was actually the Acacia tree or something. And he had like a DMT trip, but I mean, we’ll never know for sure, but that’s just a theory that, um, that’s why he saw the burning Bush and all got the, um, knowledge that he received from it.

So I think it definitely goes back like, and I know. psychedelics like all over the world too. Like in Africa they have their own type of thing. Mm-hmm then you have mushrooms and DMT. And so I think, yeah, it’s been used throughout time to like, and it’s not one of those things where you think about like some 16 year old stoners popping some mushrooms in a trailer or something like, uh, these type of things are.

What you would consider recreational? Like, I wouldn’t think iowaska would be recreational because like you said, you have to purge and everything. .

[00:33:29] Rosie: Yeah. I couldn’t imagine someone sipping to my Oscar and going to a party cuz you’d just be in the bathroom the whole time. uh, yeah, I think a lot of them are hard work.

I Bega the one that you mentioned, uh, from Africa that also is a really, really difficult one. It can feel like your skin’s on fire for parts of it, or it can feel really, really hard work. And they think like Bufo, the, the toed, um, venom one again is like these things. they’re called medicine for a reason.

Cuz they give you that like, you know, sometimes the medicine has to be a bit hard for it to work and, and some of them are really unpleasant. It’s not the same as like, you know, um, doing, doing a drug for fun, I suppose.

[00:34:14] Jeremiah: Yeah. And I also heard that like iowaska doesn’t really like pharmaceuticals. Like if someone’s on pharmaceuticals or like, uh, antidepressants or anything like that, it seems to have.

Adverse reaction, at least from what I was looking into.

[00:34:32] Rosie: Yeah. It can be really dangerous. Actually. You can end up with a thing called serotonin syndrome, um, because of the way that the, uh, DMT molecules in the brew. um, attaches with certain parts of your brain. If you have been taking things that are SSRIs, which is like serotonin, uh, inhibitors, then it, it can really like, it can really permanently damage you.

So you have to go through like a period of which is called a diet. So it’s like a, essentially like a three month. Or as little as three weeks, as much as three months kind of detox, um, where you come off, any medicines that you’re on. I mean, some, some medicines don’t interact as badly, but anything that, um, monitors your heart rate as well.

So when people are on things for, um, heart attacks and stuff that also interacts really badly with, um, psychedelics. So you have to be really careful and talk to the people that you are gonna do it with. What those interactions might be. But the other things that the diet do is like, um, eating healthily.

They don’t want you to have any meat before you go in. So people have to go vegetarian, usually even abstaining from things like they ask you to abstain from sex, um, or slash even like self pleasure for time before you go in. Because. apparently it’s all about getting your energy and the, the kind of way that you feel to be as pure as possible.

Partly to stop you having to purge as much, but partly so that the medicine gets to work as best as it can. So I think some people really struggle with that preparation process cuz you know, it means if you, if you have vices your caffeine or your cigarettes or your coffee in the morning or. I don’t know your, your ti your sexy times with your wife.

All of that is off the table for a bit before you go to ceremony and that’s, that’s hard

[00:36:28] Jeremiah: work. Oh yeah. And then, um, one of the most famous person for the iowaska thing is Graham Hancock. I’m sure. You’ve probably heard of ’em. Um, yeah, he talks about on the Joe Rogan show about how. It made him stop smoking weed.

Cuz he used to smoke weed like all day, every day and it kind of showed him like you’re hurting your wife and your life. And he said, once he came out of the ceremonies and went to smoke, he just couldn’t do it. He had to throw it all away. And so when you were done, like all your ceremonies and stuff, did you feel at carry with you when you went back to, uh, the UK.

[00:37:11] Rosie: Yeah, absolutely. I, I almost always go through a period of veganism after I come back from ceremony. Um, and then veganism feels a bit strict. So I, I tend to drift between back to maybe vegetarianism or sometimes a bit more flexy okay. But, but for definitely a few months afterwards, like I just don’t want anything.

You. It, I feel like energetically repulsed by it and, and, um, and also things like cigarettes and stuff. I mean, I don’t smoke, but like it even just walking past someone smoking, it makes me physically be like, oh, when I’ve been in a ceremony. Um, and it’s, so I think for many people it’s a real, like, , if you are somebody who struggles to have healthy habits, like it really helps you cuz it kind of gives you a few months where like that’s all that you want, but then you have to continue it.

You know, it doesn’t stay forever like that. Unfortunately. So I usually come back and I really want to exercise. I wanna move my body loads. I feel like I just wanna eat like really healthy like foods that mostly are like natural and don’t have loads of processed chemicals in. So I come back like in that state, but then.

you know, after a few months, the kind of temptations of life come back in, you know, so the friend says to you, should we go out for pizza or whatever, and, and slowly, slowly, those things can, can slip back in. But I think for people who have like a, a big jump to make, so, you know, people coming off cigarettes or alcohol or any other form of like recreational substance I’ve, I’ve known people to put, put it down from Ika and never ever pick it up again.

Again, it’s life changing for some people.

[00:38:52] Jeremiah: Oh yeah. And definitely, um, definitely for the better for the positive I don’t really remember ever hearing anybody experiencing it and then going down like a darker path when they came back from it. I mean, it might have happened,

[00:39:10] Rosie: but yeah, I I’ve heard of one, one person I know had a really, really tough set of ceremonies and I think that they weren.

Prepare to integrate what they’d learned. Um, and so because of that, I think that sent them on a bit of a self destruct, but it’s, it’s hard because for most people they go there cause they really want to heal. and this person had attended to prove to their friends that they had nothing wrong with them.

So it was like going in with the wrong intention. And then they had, obviously all this stuff come up and then they didn’t wanna show it. They didn’t wanna deal with it. And then they came back to their reality and I think that they really struggled, so it can happen, but it’s really rare cuz for most people to put yourself in that situation where you are.

You’re having to do that really hard work. Most people want to heal, you know, they’re there to do that. If you’re going to kind of prove a bet to your mates. baby don’t bother .

[00:40:12] Jeremiah: Yeah, probably not a good idea. Yeah. So, um, obviously you’re pregnant now and you gotta deal with all that, but do you have any plans to.

Go back again or go through the ceremonies again.

[00:40:28] Rosie: Yeah. So me and my partner are planning to have a plant medicine ceremony when we get married, which is gonna be interesting. Our friends and family will be invited, but obviously I can’t imagine my grandma wanting to . Okay. Um, but because it had been such a big part of like pulling us together.

He’d actually gone off and done his own plant medicine. Journey’s completely separate from me and in his own way. Um, so it’s important to both of us, but we, we are gonna wait till, um, Theo’s a bit older that’s baby. Bumper’s called Theo by the way. um, and so we’re planning to get married in about two years or so, so that I’m like, well, out of breastfeeding and things like that, cuz I don’t wanna give him funky milk yeah, yeah.

[00:41:16] Jeremiah: yeah, that’s probably not a good. .

[00:41:19] Rosie: Yeah, so that’s our, that’s our plan.

[00:41:21] Jeremiah: Anyway. Now, when he went off to do his own thing, mm-hmm um, after you guys were together and all, did he get any like, uh, learning experiences?

[00:41:35] Rosie: So he went off and had a ceremony. shortly after we’d got together. Um, and he had, uh, the, the mystery came and placed his hands on his head to do a kind of in ceremony healing.

And during that time he saw. me incredibly pregnant. Um, and he was like, we’ve just got together. Like, I think it was two, maybe three weeks. It was something that he’d, he’d already had planned. Um, and he was like, he wouldn’t tell me for ages either because he was like, I don’t wanna scare her away. We’ve just started hooking up.

I’m not gonna tell her that I’ve, you know, seen a vision of her having my child, um, but it was, yeah, maybe like two months later I’ve been really like, pestering him. Come on, tell me what that thing was. He was like, you’ve got to say that you’re not gonna be like completely scared off by this. Um, and so that was quite a crazy thing because he’d, he’d said for his life, he’d never, he didn’t really want children.

Um, and in that moment of seeing it, he was like, I’ve never been happier in my life than seeing you pregnant with my child. And I didn’t even think I wanted children. So I think that shifted his perspective a bit. She’s been really playing the matchmaker with us.

[00:42:50] Jeremiah: yeah, it definitely seems like it.

[00:42:53] Rosie: Yeah, well, we wonder what baby’s gonna be like.

Uh, cuz he’s, he’s kind of been guided into this world through the, through the experiences that we’ve had and um, it’s gonna be interesting. I, I, I really wonder how, how he’ll be and how we’ll be and how, how much her guidance will, will lead to, you know, harmony in our lives. I. We’re we’re incredibly happy together, maybe sickeningly.

So, you know, the kind of people that maybe we shouldn’t even be that happy together, but, um, I I’m really interested to see how that unfolds, you know, 10 years down the line, 20 years, 30 years when theos his own adult and, you know, will, will the fact that it was guided, uh, make a difference on the long activity on, on our happiness together.

[00:43:43] Jeremiah: Well, I hope that it does. Maybe, uh, maybe baby Theo is destined to do something big or be something big .

[00:43:54] Rosie: Yeah, maybe. And maybe he goes to work with I Oscar who knows? she’s just been recruiting all along

[00:44:03] Jeremiah: and it’s definitely a unique story cuz I’ve never. that before, even though I’ve been looking into iowaska for a while.

And so it’s, it’s, uh, refreshing to hear a different spin on it. And, um, even if you didn’t have those crazy tales of like riding a dragon or anything, at least your life changed for the better and everything, uh, everything seems to be lining up for success.

[00:44:32] Rosie: yeah. I feel that I do feel.

[00:44:35] Jeremiah: So, yeah. Thank you for coming on and talking to us and telling us about your experiences and, uh, definitely interesting.

I don’t know if I’m ready to do anything like that, like I waske or anything, but I do enjoy hearing about it. And, uh, especially when there’s success stories. .

[00:44:55] Rosie: Yeah. And they say that people get the calling, you know, so if you don’t feel ready, you’re probably not. But at some point you’ll get this message that almost seems unen, ignorable.

That was what happened to me. I’d heard about it and heard about it to the point where I was like, I have to do this thing. So if, if it, if it’s on the cards for you, Jeremiah, I’m sure you’ll know .

[00:45:16] Jeremiah: Yeah. And I was just in Peru. Um, but we were on more of a site scene, like looking at the ancient ruins and all that stuff and, uh, gathering information for the podcast and all that stuff.

So didn’t really get around to the Amazon. We were more in like the Andy mountains and all, but, uh, yeah, definitely. I’ve ran across travelers. The last time I was in Peru. were there for that specific purpose and they were just passing through Cosco to, to get there and . Mm. So yeah, definitely. Thank you for coming on.

And, um, I wish you the best. Thank

[00:45:55] Rosie: you for having me.

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[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow terrestrials and welcome back. We’re gonna have a stimulating conversation with Dr. David Edward. Gonna be talking about a mystery that’s as old as time, and that is the law city of Atlantis. Talking with Dave about his, uh, research and his evidence that he thinks he has found the law city of Atlantis.

So we’ll get into a riveting conversation about what he has found, but first, if you could rate and review the show, I would highly appreciate it. And also if you want to contact me, you can go to on the contact page? You can shoot me an email if you want to be a guest on the show, or if you have a show topic idea, or if you just wanna talk about anything, fringe hit me up on there.

I respond to all my messages in a timely manner. So let’s travel back in time with Dave, Edward, and talk about the law city of Atlantas and remember question everything.


Hello, and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast? I’m your host. Jeremiah. I’m joined today by Dave, and we’re gonna be talking about Atlantis.

The topic that a lot of people like to dive into, or just have a curiosity about. And David here wrote a book on Atlantis and what he thinks about Atlantis and where he thinks Atlantis is located. So we’ll get into all that juicy stuff later. So right now I’ll introduce him. Hello, David. Hello, Jeremiah.

[00:02:09] David: How are you? Good. How are you? I am I’m super duper. It’s it’s eight. O’clock where I am. So normally I’m pretty lit up by now, but I held off on all of that so we could have a good coherent podcast.

[00:02:20] Jeremiah: Yep. It’s eight o’clock here too. And okay, beautiful. Uh, it’s five o’clock somewhere, I guess.

[00:02:25] David: yeah, it, it, those poor bastards.

[00:02:30] Jeremiah: we got, um, a very hot topic and uh, a lot of people like to look into it and fantasize about it and, uh, solans what, uh, What made you like set off on this journey? Like, did you hear about it? And you were like, yeah, I’m gonna write a book about this. Or, um, like, is it something you’ve always been interested

[00:02:56] David: in?

Yeah, look, I’m a nerd. Right. And it sounds like we’re both kind of like nerds. I, I think I’m a little older than you. So, you know, I came up in, in the seventies when I was a kid, you know, we didn’t have as much content as we do now. Um, but if there was a book written on Atlantis or, uh, spaceships, I mean, anything Aaron Von Danigan wrote, you know, you mentioned it.

I, I read it as a kid. It’s just what I read. And I watched all the shows, um, uh, you know, constantly, constantly, and I’ve been watching the shows for, for 30 years and stuff. So, so basically, I don’t know, it was. Maybe four months ago now. Um, I had, I had listened to all of the, what if the wrong podcasts that I, I possibly could.

I’m an old guy. I can’t sleep. So I was up and I just, I, you know, I, I, I looped through your stuff over and over again. And then when I ran outta that content, I went over to YouTube. Uh, and I started in, in YouTube, fed me the, uh, bright insight channel with Jimmy Corcetti. Um, if you’re familiar with that and he, in 2018, um, he kind of, I guess, created his channel and he found this thing called the rich hat structure.

Although it goes a little bit before him, I know the whole history of it, which we can get into, but he kind of, he’s the one who popularized it. Um, and he kind of broke the news. And then, so in 2018, 19,020, there was obviously a lot of gyration around this particular location called the rich hat structure, which is in, uh, the, uh, Western Sahara, um, in a country called more.

And so I, I was watching this and I have a background. I’ve got, uh, a doctorate degree, I’ve got three graduate degrees. I’ve been president of university. Um, you know, I’ve taken Asian history courses, I’ve written 42 books. So I, I have that toolkit. And when I saw this and I listened to ’em, I was like, you know, I think there’s something there.

Uh, so I decided, and, and Jimmy does a really good job and I’ve talked to Jimmy. Um, in fact he and I, we have a couple projects we’re actually working on. Um, but he didn’t get everything right. I didn’t think, and then I kind of delved into it and I, you know, and he started exploring and he realized there are some criticisms.

So I, I wanted to see if he was right. So I started my own research kind of independently from, from ground zero. Um, using much more of a scientific methodology, very modern, uh, approach to this. And I said, let me see if I can verify, uh, how close this RHA structure, um, fits. Uh, to what, uh, we know about Atlantis and we can get into what we know.

We don’t know very much, but we know something and I’ve had, there’s another guy, David STIG, Hanson, who I always, um, mention, I don’t know if you know him. He has a channel, uh, on YouTube with, under his name. And, um, he’s actually been to the rich hat structure and he has millions of photos and he’s got lots of videos, but I’ve talked to him, uh, at great length.

He’s a talker, I’ve got a, uh, a geochemist, um, that, uh, I’ve worked with to look at some of the rocks that are out there. So we’re trying to, to do this a little more scientifically and analytically, um, which is kind of how I fell into this whole thing. And the book Atlanta’s solved the final definitive proof, which is of course, available on Amazon.

It came out in, uh, April of this year. So

[00:05:56] Jeremiah: for the people listening that might not know what is this Ette structure and where is it

[00:06:02] David: located? Sure. And let’s, and so let’s talk about two things. We’ve got the Ette structure and how it lines up to. Atlantis. And then we’ve got what we know about Atlantis and, and what we think we know about Atlantis, cuz there’s a lot of, uh, nonsense to use a kid friendly word, um, about whatever this place is, but what the rich hat structure is.

It’s a, um, they call it a, uh, a volcanic dome. Um, so was just a way that’s explaining how it was formed. If you go look at it, if you just go to Google and you type in RHA, um, R I C H a T um, that’s why I gotta type in, you’ll start to see pictures of go over to the images and what it is. It’s um, about 345 miles inland, which we’ll talk about why that’s actually good versus bad.

And it is a geologic formation that has mountains to the north is open to the south it’s um, in the middle of the Western Sahara desert, it has, uh, a center structure and then it has two concentric circles of raised. And then between those lower areas, where if there was water, if it was raining, you know, it’d be a lake.

So you have, you have this classic kind of Atlantis sign of a center island and then two concentric, um, rings of water and land outside of it. Uh, so it looks really interesting and it doesn’t look like anything else on earth. Um, and it’s in, uh, more which just the name of that country. It’s kind of a cool name, right?

Mo no other country in Africa has, has a name like that. Um, but yeah, and, and this has been known, uh, in the book and available on the internet are a lot of, uh, uh, NASA images, a lot of satellite image of this thing. It was discovered like in the 1950s, when we started putting satellites up and it’s actually a landmark that, uh, uh, the space shuttle, the us space shuttle uses when we had one, we don’t have one now, but when they had one, they would use it to, um, uh, what they call coordinate, you know, on their approach.

When they, when they got over this part of the world, they could see it very visible from space and they would use that to kind of know about where they were. So it’s, it’s just a wildly interesting. Yeah.

[00:08:02] Jeremiah: I guess the originating story about Atlantis and this loss civilization goes back to, um, Plato.

And, um, I forget the name of it. It’s like Craus and TAUs or something.

[00:08:17] David: Courteous and Timus um, and you know, you can have, I, I, I, for a long time thought it was CR courteous. Um, and tinies, but I guess that’s not the right way to say it. So it’s courteous. It’s a hard eye as, as they say, but yeah, so he, he wrote, so, so let’s talk about, so Plato is, um, uh, an ancient Greek philosopher.

That’s how, that’s what we call him today. I don’t think he would’ve seen himself that way, but he wrote a bunch of things called dialogues and what these dialogues were, and this is in what they call the classical, uh, grease period. So we’re talking 400 BC plus and minus, um, and the dialogues were.

recording a lot of the conversations he had with his teacher, Socrates, um, Plato actually founded a school, uh, and famous people like Aristotle. If you’ve heard of Aristotle, you know, graduated from the school. In fact, there’s, there was some, there’s some controversy with Aristotle that we can get into.

Plato died in like, um, I 19 or, uh, 360 something or three 40 something, uh, BCE. It was like he died 12 years after Alexander. The great was born. Um, and Aristot. Mentored Alexander. The great, so we’ve kind of got lineage, you know, all the way from Socrates through Plato, through Aristotle, to Alexander the great of course, Alexander the great conquered, um, conquered the world in these dialogues.

We, all of us didn’t read the Republic. We carried it around when we were in high school, I think in 10th grade, um, we probably carried it around from month as we were supposed to be reading it, but no one read it. You know, none of us read it even, I didn’t read it and I’m super into this stuff, but you know, I’m not gonna do it.

They told me to read it. So there’s no way I was gonna read it. um, but that’s his most famous work, the Republic. Um, and in the Republic he tells us things like, um, uh, uh, what. If, if he were to try and put a government together, because one, he, one of the things he was trying to figure out is what does a good form of self-government government look like?

Right? Because the Athenians, they invented democracy. Um, the way they did it, it had, uh, a few more challenges than we have today. Some of the problems they had were the same, but so he did a lot of that. He, he wrote out, well, if, you know, maybe if we were to kind of do a thought experiment and, and put it all together, he wrote all that down.

And then he had this, an allegory called the cave, which is very famous. This is like the most famous, uh, platonic or Plato thing. And, um, what that, what he was trying to do there is explain, okay. You know, like what’s a chair, you know, what is justice? What’s the right thing to do? And his theory was, there is kind of the perfect version of it.

Like when we look at something and we know it’s the chair, how do we know it’s a chair? Well, cuz a chair has attributes and has kind of a perfect form. He would say, and then the real world is all copies of that form. And then so, you know, and so that’s his thing in courteous. Um, he records the story of Atlantis from Crius who’s the speaker of it and, and Crius his grand.

Great, great, great grandfather named Solon had gone to Egypt in 600 BCE, um, because Solon was a, uh, Athenian, um, Politician. And this is early. This is before the classical period. This, when they’re, they’re, they’re trying, they come outta their dark age. Uh, and he went there trying to figure out what to do.

Uh, one of the things that the Egyptians did was they talked to him about their ancient history. Um, and he wrote down what they said, and they spent a lot of time translating, um, a lot of the hieroglyphics and the scrolls and the histories they have into this ancient history story of Atlantis, which is what he wrote down.

And then one of the myths is that, uh, Plato heard it. It was kinda like this oral tradition. Um, it was passed down for hundreds of years. So it couldn’t be that accurate, but that’s not actually what he says, what he says is this guy courteous, um, had possession of the scroll that Solon wrote, he read it.

And then he was telling, um, Plato and other people, um, what is said. Uh, so that’s kind of how we know about Atlantas.

[00:11:58] Jeremiah: Okay. And then from that, um, I know he talked about like, you, you come at a different take than a lot of people where like a lot of people think that. Oh, Atlantas was super advanced, had like lasers and, you know, spaceships and stuff like that.

But you, from what I’ve heard, like think it was more of like more advanced for that time. Not like what we think of advanced.

[00:12:24] David: Yeah. I mean, look, one of the problems with Atlantas and it’s hard to talk about, and there’s a lot of setup to do, just to be able to talk about it. Um, but the Atlantas has been beaten to death, right?

And it, you can pretty much go find someone who is gonna tell you they’re an authority, uh, who will tell you anything about it. But look, it’s not nuclear submarines. It’s not UFOs, it’s not death race. Matter of fact, the RHA structure in the time period, which we can get to the time period doesn’t require, um, a single thing.

That we know, you know, typically people that, that like Atlantis or UFOs, they have this term called, you know, like the, the, the mainstream academics, right. Or academia or, or so, and they’ll say, well, they’re wrong. And then this is what it really is. But for the rich structure to be Atlantis, no one has to be wrong.

Um, here’s what, here’s what we know about it. Uh, the, the time period we’re talking about. So the story in play that says it happened 9,000 years before Solon went to Egypt. Well, he went to Egypt in 96 or in 600 BC. Um, he had 9,000 years, so he get 90. Uh, thousand BC, uh, that time period corresponds to two things that, that actually lend a lot of credibility to what Plato’s saying.

Uh, the first is we’re dealing with a time period at, at the end of, um, what they call the younger dries. And I can tell you what the, what a dries is basically it’s it was the last ice age. Um, and it’s when all of a sudden, exactly like to, almost to the, to the day, um, the earth temperature increased like 40 degrees, which is a hint that something.

Bad happened. And there would’ve been things like earthquakes and tsunamis and all that stuff. Now, also during the last ice age, this part of Africa, the entire Sahara desert from, um, from Egypt all the way over through Libya, um, through Morocco and then through more, all the way to the Atlantic ocean was what they called the green Sahara.

So, you know, we talked about it, what time it was I’m in Florida. I’m, I’m just a hair north, uh, you know, latitude longit longitude, um, of, you know, where this thing is on the planet. So the weather was about like what I’m seeing, which is it rains a lot. Um, it was very green. They, they, there were huge lakes in the middle of Africa lake.

Chad was the biggest lake on the planet for a long time during this period. Um, so that’s 9,600 BC. What history tells us is two things were going on in 9,600 BC, uh, first off and, and historians don’t dispute this younger driest thing. In fact, uh, there was the younger dries sea older dries, and the oldest dries, which go back in time and the dries is just a plant apparently.

And they can that preserves well, so they can. Measure the plant in the, in the soil and stuff. And they can fig kind of guess what was going on on the planet. Um, we also know about about 10,000 BC is when agriculture is when is when hunter gatherers and cavemen, whatever you wanna call ’em started to, to, um, form into camps and started to, um, have agriculture as part of what they do.

And so they started to build societies around it. So that that’s 10,000 BC, that that’s 400 years before this 9,600. Um, so no, one’s gonna dispute that. Um, and then we have the, uh, uh, what they call, they call it the pre pottery neolithic, which is, so you have the ice age, which ended about 9,600 BC. And, and then you have, uh, the pre pottery, neolithic and neolithic.

That just means the new stone age. So it’s a transition from the, the prior stone age, but all pre pottery neolithic means at this time is that, um, people use stones as tools and they hadn’t, they weren’t baking pots yet. which is consistent with what we find, um, at, at the structure. Uh, it’s also consistent with, um, people living in this area.

And if you look at the rich hat structure and you, you take into account that, um, we’re talking about the green Sahara, then we’re talking about a ton of rain. We’ve got lake Chad, biggest lake on the planet. It’s raining, raining, raining, and, and the geography around this thing fits perfectly to, if, if it’s raining a lot, the rivers drain into this large basin around where these, um, islands would’ve been, uh, they form a river that flows, you know, to the sea.

There there’s plenty of room for agriculture and all the things that Plato tells us, um, that they were doing. So it’s, it’s, it’s the only thing about, um, is the only answer for Atlantis. It doesn’t require you to conflict with any of the current view of history and it matches everything Plato’s set. So a lot of times, you know, I talked about these TV shows I watched in the, in the seventies, eighties, even, even still you watch ’em in, in the, format’s still the same, the first half hour.

It’s just amazing travel log with very smart sounding people who are telling you how they’ve got the whole thing figured out and you buy into it. Then the second half hour is them, uh, telling you how now they, they don’t really know, and they gotta change this and maybe Plato got this wrong. You know, maybe the time’s this or time’s that.

They never answer the question. Right. But for this, we can answer the question without having to conflict with anything Plato said, without having to have current historians changed anything they believe or know about our history, which I think is, uh, amazing.

[00:17:19] Jeremiah: So if it’s in this part of Northern Africa and you said it was inland, um, how does that.

go with the tail of like it being in the sea and then sinking.

[00:17:34] David: Yeah. Well it says, it says it sink into the sea and, you know, remember we’re dealing with a translated document and we’re dealing with language that has, you know, not none, no one speaks ancient Greek anymore. Um, so if you were trying to describe, you know, we all lived, we had that tsunami in, um, in Japan.

I don’t, I forget how long ago it was 10 years ago, whatever it was. But if you were trying to explain what happened to the nuclear power plan, um, and you’re gonna go through a couple translations. One of the things you could have said is that the sea swallowed it, which is a hundred percent accurate, but, and it did, but it didn’t mean it doesn’t mean it was on an island in the middle of the ocean has sunk into the.

So that language we, you know, historically, and I say, Atlantis has been beaten to death, that there is this odd historical narrative, um, that, that people will gravitate to, if they don’t like what you’re saying, and they’ll try and use it to, to, to, you know, kind of poo poo your view, um, or they will gravitate to, um, if they think it supports their view.

Uh, but if we just look at what the words mean, you know, to Playto this, this thing sits, it sits, uh, the rich hat stressor today is somewhere between three and 4,000 feet above sea level. So about half a mile, little more than half a mile. Um, it’s, it’s, uh, Playto tells us was on a, a gently sloping plane to the sea with mountains to the north of 300 stadia.

Okay. So a stadia is 607 feet, and that’s the Alexandrian measure, which is the measure that, that, um, uh, that Plato would’ve used, you know, to talk about. So. When you multiply 607 feet times 3000, you get 345 miles up three and 45 miles. Plato tells us it was on a gently sloping plane, 3000 stadia. The, the eye of this aha is on a gently sloping plane with mountains to the north, um, up 345 miles.

So that fits and the biggest tsunami that has been observed was like 1700 feet tall. Okay. Um, right now I, I mentioned if, if the, if the sea level would arise like 400 feet, then this thing would be at the sea level. It’s not gonna do that, but so a S a big tsunami coming up that gently sloping plane at 345 miles, there’s nothing to stop it.

Um, and we know tsunamis form that could very easily reach this area and much farther inland. Um, if, if the, uh, if the plates shifted and the plate, and there is a plate there, there’s a Ridge that could actually send this to the west coast of Africa. So it just makes it, it makes sense further it’s on the cover of the book.

Um, it’s in Jimmy’s videos and it’s just a, a picture that’s out there. One of the NASA pictures, you can clearly see it’s it’s, it is an image from the west looking east, and you can see, uh, the, the remnants of the water flowing away, flowing out. So the hu economy coming in, and then you can see it pulling down and all the drainage.

And it’s still visible today. It’s, it’s, it’s infinitely clear what it is when you look at the satellite view from that side. Yeah.

[00:20:23] Jeremiah: And he also said in his video about like their salt deposits

[00:20:28] David: yeah. Around that all salt is sodium sodium chloride, and all salt comes from the sea. Um, and there is, I mean, how does Morita make its money, uh, mining and play hotels?

This place was rich in mining and, and salt mining that that’s like their primary, uh, source of income. It, it it’s, I mean, it’s, cuz it’s mostly desert, you know, it’s a very difficult country. Um, but yeah, they make the money today, still salt mining and the only way. Uh, to have salt, there is if the ocean was over it and then a lot of water evaporated.

Right. Um, which is doesn’t mean it had to be, uh, it having to do with Atlantas, but it supports the, you know, we’re dealing with circumstances, it supports the circumstance that this thing was covered in water and, and the salt is proof of that. And there’s salt everywhere out there. Yeah,

[00:21:14] Jeremiah: definitely. And I saw, um, that there’s evidence of like water erosion around the area, even though it’s like a desert.

[00:21:22] David: Oh yeah. We found, in fact, I told you I’ve got a geologist that no one knows that. So this is the first time I’m mentioning this. And I don’t, I don’t want to like to come forward with stuff and tell us completely thought out, but we’ve found, um, what, and, and so, you know, we, David Hanson went there about a year ago.

He’s going back in October to verify this. We have pictures of this. We, we found what we, what looks like a, a stone platform kind of on the Northern and Eastern side of this thing. Very, very big, huge, uh, which we’re gonna examine. We found. Hundreds of canals, uh, and, and agricultural work. Um, the type of things you see in, uh, what they call it, step agriculture, uh, what you would see, you know, if, if you had a big agrarian, um, society, we, uh, we see that.

And then we see, uh, structures that look exactly like the BI road, um, about 10 miles to the north of this rich hat structure. People like the BIM road, you know, the, the, the people that don’t like the rich hat structure tend to like the Azos is the answer for this, which, which we can talk about. You know, we, we’re dealing with this city of Atlantas the continent of Atlantas and then this, this kingdom of Atlantas and I, and I think it’s pretty obvious that this was a seafaring culture.

When you look at how they, um, grew their food, and then you look at things like the BIM road and you see that same sign, even though that’s underwater. You know, you maybe use dealing with people that had the same, you know, we we’re gonna use this term technology in advanced and all that. Let’s talk about what that, that means they weren’t advanced from our standpoint.

Um, but they certainly were advanced from Platos. Uh, now they weren’t, they weren’t advanced when it came to the ability to kill each other, cuz we’re talking about a stone age culture. Right. So, so they, um, in fact, and we know they weren’t very good at war because while they did invade Libya in Egypt, in parts of Europe, uh, whatever was going on in Greece at 9,600 BC, which would be, uh, proto Greeks, you know, we can’t even call in Greeks.

Uh, uh, but they, they fought a war and, and Thelan lost the Greeks beat ’em back. So it, I think from advanced, what Plato says is they were really good at agriculture. And matter of fact, like you wouldn’t believe how good they were, which I think we found evidence to support on ground. Um, and then he really liked some of the ways they organized themselves.

Um, they had a pack each, each of the, um, The princes of, of the provinces, there were 10 provinces. They had a pack not to, not to fight with each other. Um, not to go to war with each other. If, if someone attacked one of ’em, they had a pack that said they would all, you know, come to their age. Just, just basic stuff.

That for us kind of, we, we feel like it’s common sense. But at this point in our history, it was, it was revolutionary in its concept. Oh

[00:24:04] Jeremiah: yeah, definitely. Cuz you have to look at it from Plato’s perspective, not our perspective cuz it’s a completely different

[00:24:12] David: time. no, that that’s exactly right. One of the things I lay out rules and the rules is we can’t assume, you know, that Plato was an idiot.

We can’t assume the Atlan were idiots. Um, and uh, we need to know what Plato thought he was writing, not 2000 years of people speculating on what they wanted him to have written. Uh, and when you do that and you strip all that away, cuz Plato’s our only source for this thing. He’s our only primary source.

Although I, I found two. Um, supporting sources for him, but, but he, but he’s our only real source. And then to get back to Aristotle real quick, some people, some people ask me, well, how come, you know, why didn’t Aristotle pick up on this? Or why did anybody, you know, kind of pick up on this or, or run with it after Playdoh and Aristotle didn’t buy it.

Aristotle did not think the story of Atlantis was true. Um, but, and, and Aristotle is famous for a lot of things, but he was a contemporary of this guy named Cranor, um, and both Aristotle and Cranor and other people were students of Playto. And when Playto died, uh, the person who was gonna take over the academy that the school that he created, he created the first university.

Um, it was either gonna be Aristotle. It was gonna be Cranor and Cranor. Beat him out. Sorano continued play those leg legacy Aristotle kind of pouted off, went off, had, you know, had, has his own ideas, which are brilliant. And he’s a brilliant man. He did brilliant things, but he stepped away from what they called the platonic school and he created his own.

Um, I’m not gonna be able to say it Aris to Italian, you know, way of, of, of looking at things now Cranor is interesting because he, he believed what Plato had wrote and there was controversy even then. Uh, so what he says he did, and I, this is what he says he did. I haven’t, I don’t have any proof of this, but I proof is what he said he did is he went to Egypt and he verified the story is what he says.

Um, so we do have immediately after Plato people looking at this, trying to sew it up, and then the person who took over the academy kind of vouchers for this particular dialogue, which is wildly, um, interesting. I think, I don’t remember what your question was, but I told you I was just

[00:26:10] Jeremiah: rambling. So it’s is okay.

Uh, so for like, we’re talking about Egypt or you just talked about Egypt, um, Did Atlantis have any contact with them or were they before that time or?

[00:26:24] David: Well, so it’s a good question. So what we do know is that Atlantis militarily conquered Egypt. That’s what, that’s what, that’s what the Egyptians told Plato.

They conquered Libya, Egypt and parts of Europe, which also gives us geographic clues as to where it has to be. It has to be somewhere geographically located to Libya, Egypt, and parts of Europe. Um, we also know that the Egyptians recorded the history of it. So there is, um, whatever you wanna call it.

There’s an association there that they were somehow involved. Um, and in Egypt has always been, you know, a very, um, prominent empire, whatever you wanna call it, country in the Mediterranean, which apparently went back. Tens of thousands of years, you know, we’ve just learned from this. Uh, so yes they have, they have the history recorder, although we can’t find any of it today.

So many people say, you go, here you go. There, you look at this, you look at that there’s proof of Atlanta there isn’t, it doesn’t exist. There’s only two things I’ve been able to find that verify or that corroborate Plato’s account. Um, the first is a historian that actually came before Plato named OUS.

And, uh, uh, Jimmy went over this on one of his videos. He got, he didn’t really get this one. Right. Um, but he, at least he at least made that connection. And OUS wrote this book called the histories and it was the first real attempt to write down. Um, what the Greeks knew about the world, everyone in the world, and then what the Greeks were doing.

And he kind of, you know, takes us up through, uh, the Persian invasions of four 90 and 4, 4 81, that kind of stuff. Um, and the first half of that, book’s more like a travel log. So he’s just saying, you know, you go, you walk 10 miles this way, and then you see this and you walk in, or 10 stadia or 10 days is what he usually says 10 days.

You see this and da, da, da, and, and he gives you, he says, you, you know, like you go to Egypt and then you head west through Libya and you go 10 days. Then he says, what you find are these people called Atlantians and they’re, they, they say that they’re, um, you know, the remnants of a, of a old society.

And they’re really weird. Um, and they’re, they go all the way to the base of the Atlas mountains, um, and the Atlantis that they live on top of salt piles. Uh, they, um, don’t dream. Um, they have names, but they refuse to write them down. Uh, they refuse to Chronicle their history, uh, which is weird. Um, especially for this time, uh, they’re vegetarians.

So, and this is in the desert, but they’re vegetarians, so they won’t eat meat. Uh, and they don’t dream. So, so they’re really goofy people, but he actually uses that word Atlantians and he tells us, and if you look at the Western Sahara and then you look to the north, the Atlas mountains, and by the way, the king of Atlantis was named Atlas.

So, so right in that area, we’ve got these Atlas mountains and then we have a different person, a different historian telling us that the people that called themselves Atlantians remnants of them was still around, you know, in 500 BC, uh, right. Where we would expect them to be, if, if, uh, you know, uh, this, this was the city, it got wiped out and now it’s many, many years later.

Um, so that’s hugely interesting. And then the other thing that corroborates, this is this thing called the peer re map, which, uh, you, you know, I know you’re into this, so you probably have you read Graham Hancock. oh yeah, definitely.

[00:29:38] Jeremiah: Yeah. And I’ve listened to, ’em a bunch. And, uh, I know about the map and there’s some other maps too.

I think Charles Hapgood had

[00:29:45] David: a map too. Yeah. Well, Hapgood started with this map. Um, and, and yeah, so in 1995 and Graham Hancock’s book fingerprints of the gods, uh, he kind of opens the book with this map. It’s a very famous map. It’s, it’s a real map. We know it’s, you know, historically, uh, real, it was created by, in the 15 hundreds, early 15 hundreds by, uh, an Ottoman navigator named Perry.

and what he does. He commissioned, he wanted, um, the cartographer or the map maker to go find all of the ancient maps they had and put ’em all together into one map, reconcile the whole thing, cuz you know, and this is we’re talking, this is like 1530 ish. Uh, so this map is produced and, and theoretically right, Columbus sealed the ocean blue in 1492.

Right? So we’re only, we’re only two generations away from the founding of the, uh, the discovery of the new world. On this Pree map, it shows and the interest has always been on the left hand side, which shows the new world, uh, north America and south America in, in seemingly more detail than, than could have been possible even within a hundred years of when the map was made.

And then on the bottom, it seems to show Antarctica without ice. It seems to show the continental Ridge. Um, the shelf, the continental shelf below Antarctica, if, if the oceans were lower and they would’ve been lower in an ice age. And, and we know even today, sometimes there’s more ice on the north pole.

Sometimes there’s more ice on, on the south pole and, and it’s fairly accurate. It’s disputed people. Don’t like, that’s what it says, but it, you can, you can not like it and have that be your argument, but it, it sure does look like that’s what it it’s showing. Um, no one’s ever bothered to look on the right hand side or when they look, they, they dismiss it.

It’s it’s cuz the right right hand side has Africa and it’s, it’s the damnedest thing. We’ve all been staring at this for 500 years. You go look at it when, when we’re done there. If, when you look at, uh, Africa on the right hand side of this map, there’s a elephant big elephant. And then inland there’s this kooky little city surrounded by a ring of water.

And it’s exactly where the R hat structure is on a modern map today. Yeah. What kind of coincidence is that? Well, kind of, it’s not, it’s IM it’s, it’s impossible. It’s impossible. You, you can’t, you can’t line up all the measurements that Plato gave us that fit this place. Uh, the 345 miles inland. No, no, no one ever brings that up because it’s inconvenient.

It can’t be the Bimini islands or it can’t be, um, uh, whatever Santorini. It can’t be any of those places because they’re not, there’s not enough land. Um, but there is enough in west Africa. And, and then on top of that, all these other things, you know, start to line up and, and on top of that, we have a, a city surrounded by a ring of water on a map that, that also shows the water level below, uh, the continental shelves and Antarctica.

I’m not making it up. And there it is, you know, again, and I tell you, you cannot like it. And you can, you can argue a different position, but that doesn’t make this invalid. It, you know, it it’s real. And on top of that, and then when you, then you add it all up and we mentioned, I mean, some of the things that, that Jimmy’s gone over, but just to, to, to rattle ’em off, you know, all the dimensions are supposed to be a 50 stadia long, uh, canal that was dug from the outer ring to the, to an inner Harbor in this thing.

Well, that’s 5.8 miles. Guess how far it is from the outer ring to the, the, you know, the inside 5.8 miles. So, so we have the radius of this thing. It said that there were mountains to the north and it opened to the south. Well, this thing has mountains to the north and it opens to the south, um, you know, and just, it just goes on and on and on and on like that.

Uh, and I, when I did in the book, I, I, I very meticulously go through all this. It matches what Plato said, 99.3, 2%. Dang. Yeah. 99.3, 2%. It doesn’t conflict with anything we know about history. We don’t have to push agriculture back. Matter of fact, agriculture around was around for 400 years before this place.

We had go Bagley Tepe, which everyone knows about, which is the exact same time period. And it shows advanced, you know, advanced hunting, hunter gathering civilization. So we know people could, could, could take this leap. Um, a, another Greek historian heist, independently mentions Atlantians in the exact same place.

We have maps built, uh, off of ancient maps that show this place with a city on it, surrounded by water in the middle of the desert. We know this AARA was green, you know, and it just goes on and it’s just, it just all fits. It’s just, it just fits. So, yeah, I mean, so I wrote a book

[00:34:19] Jeremiah: yeah. I think a lot of people have this misconception because of today, like, um, the Sahara’s like desert and.

Egypt is the old desert, but like they say, there’s researchers that say that, you know, back when they were like relevant, like in the beginning of time they, um, had, you know, lush greenery, there was a lot more water there. And especially around the pyramids, there’s even theories where water went all the way up to the pyramids and they were kind of like hydro-electric dams or some, something like that.

So mm-hmm, , it’s just, you gotta like, kind of. Take out what you’ve been taught and look at it for what it

[00:35:03] David: is . Yeah. And I’m familiar with that. I try and stay away from that kind of stuff. I try and because not, not that I don’t believe or, or, or, or not believe, but you know, like, um, the guy who’s got the competing theorist named Randall Carlson, he’s good guy.

Everyone likes him. I’ve listen, I’ve watched this stuff and listened to it. He’s done a lot of terrific, terrific research. Um, matter of fact, I think he’s built a good case that more was going on in this time period than we thought. He, he, he thinks it’s the Azo islands and he’s got a very complicated geological explanation for that, that I won’t, um, uh, go into.

Um, but I forgot my point was gonna be shoot. Uh, it escaped

[00:35:38] Jeremiah: me about the, uh, lost, it was more greenery and

[00:35:41] David: water and all that. It was. But, but, but yeah, but to have the greenery in this area for this time, period is not a leap. You can go to any historian or open any book anywhere, and it’s, it’s accepted fact.

So I think, and see, this is what I think, I think if we, oh, oh, my point was gonna be Randall will also say some goofy things. Like he believes in crystal energy and this and that. And I don’t know whether he’s right or wrong, but I try and stay away from that speculation. Cause I don’t wanna have to defend that.

It’s just like, well, the people ask me, well, what do you think caused the tsunami that, that would’ve destroyed the city. And I’m like, I, I don’t know. We can see it happen. The climate evidence. This younger dries thing. Have the visual evidence. Some people think it might be a common impact.

Um, it could be if, if the ice was really melting, the plate shift, you know, one shifts up and it creates, it creates the tsunami and all that. But, but I don’t know because no one knows and it’s probably not knowable. So I don’t want to have to Def I don’t wanna get into arguments when people say, well, it’s baloney because we know a comment didn’t impact Greenland at 9,600 BC.

Therefore this can’t Belan. So I’m like, well, whoa, I’m, you know, I don’t wanna associate, I don’t wanna mix associate, you know, these, these different things, not that. And I have my own beliefs on like where the pyramid power pyramids power plants. I actually don’t think so. I have a different theory on that.

I’m gonna put in, uh, my next book, but it’s just a theory, this stuff on Atlanta, isn’t a theory. Just data. Lining up all the data w and not speculating or taking in nonsense that, that, that is built upon the source material, just going to the source material and then looking and using the tools we have, cuz we live in a very modern world and we can, all of us can, you know, with Google earth, we can all look at the whole planet.

Incredible what we have at our fingertips today.

[00:37:24] Jeremiah: Yeah. And there’s a lot of, um, quacks, I guess I’ll call. ’em like a lot of, a lot of people like I’ve read, I forget where I read it, but it was in some book or something where they were looking for Atlantis and like the Indian ocean or uh, somewhere like far off from.

You know, was written with by Pluto. And it seems like people are just on a witch hunt to like, look wherever .

[00:37:53] David: Well, I have a theory about that. They, they have what they have something I don’t have, they have something called funding so someone is paying them for a month to go on a boat and, and float around the Indian ocean and scuba dive and go to beaches.

And you know, all these places, they look the Azo island, the, the Bimini islands, um, Santa Reini, you know, Greece, these are beautiful places. And so, yeah, if I, if I could get a TV, you know, TV channel or whatever, to, to, to spend a million bucks to send me around, put scuba gear on to, to point at rocks, into water and have stories, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

It’s got nothing to do with proven whether this is Atlantis or not, but, but it makes a TV show. .

[00:38:31] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely. So I’m assuming you’re not in the camp of thinking that Atlantas was actually a mothership and it blasted off .

[00:38:40] David: I am not, I’m not. Look, I look, I, I watch, I’ve seen every episodes of ancient aliens twice, at least twice.

So I am in this camp. But I’m being, I’m trying to be very disciplined and rigid, um, when it comes to Atlantas, uh, because I think it is real and I don’t think we need that other layers of speculation on top of it. Cause I think it just, it, it confuses things now people like to dream and all that. But what I think what I, I mean, if you think about it, you ING thing I’ve said, and we know there are people in the area, we found the stone tools and stuff.

Um, if, if I were a caveman or, you know, whatever was going on in at 9,600 BC, and when I got tired of dragging my wife around by her hair and eating pork chops or whatever they did, and if I stumbled upon this giant lake with this beautiful island in the middle, in this wonderful climate where I could grow stuff and I didn’t have to kill animals, I, I could eat, you know, rice and bananas or, or whatever.

And it was easily defendable and stuff. Didn’t come up and eat me in the middle of the night. I think you have to explain why wouldn’t people have lived on this thing. Right? Why, why wouldn’t they? I mean, they they’re walking by it. Why wouldn’t they. Get in a boat and grow out to it. Um, and it’s a, it’s a beautiful place to live in, in some ways it, it enjoys some of the same benefits we have here in America, especially early on, right.

Cuz our, our two biggest, one of the reasons why we can defend ourselves is because we have the two biggest defensive buffers in, in the universe, the Atlantic ocean and the Pacific ocean. Right. Because it’s hard to get to us and this would’ve been the same thing. It’s, it’s, it’s many miles inland. It’s hard to get to.

Um, the other side of it is, uh, I think a thousand or 2000 miles, and then you hit the Chad and you hit the, this mountain range and then you’re over in Libya and Egypt. But you know, no, it’s tough to walk to it. It’s up a, a defensible river, you know? I mean, it’s just, it’s a great place. So it just makes complete sense that, that this and, oh, we also know the Dean, all the, we all know we’re all taught.

And again, this, this conforms, the current historical thinking that, that we all emerged. We all came out Africa, right? That that’s, that’s the, the theory. So if we came out of Africa and we know we have this beautiful. Gardeny place. Why wouldn’t we expect to find early civilizations that are good at agriculture in it?

It doesn’t make any sense to me. Why what’s, I don’t even understand how can you argue against it? You know? Um, the only thing I will say is it’s like, I, I always describe it, say Christmas, right? So, you know, when you were a kid and you had that big pile of Christmas presents and you stared at ’em for two weeks wanting to open them.

Right. That was the greatest time. Cuz you dreamed it could have been anything in there. Right. Then when you open ’em what is it? It socks. Right. And it’s, it’s, it’s a bag to wrap your school book in, you know, and whatever else. And it’s like, great, you’re happy. You know how to, you know, you know how to, to not show it, but it’s like, okay, now that I know what it is, it’s nowhere near as fun as dreaming about what it could have been.

And I think that’s part of why people don’t have a hard time seeing this for what it is. Oh yeah.

[00:41:34] Jeremiah: And this, this tails as old as time too, like you have. All these TV shows and movies like the cartoon movie Atlantis, I think it was actually, yeah. And then Stargate, Atlantis and all these things that like, you know, fantasize it and put images in people’s head of like, you know, this fantasized version of what it really

[00:41:59] David: was.

Yeah. And you go on the internet now and you search where is Atlantis and it says a Bahamas and it shows you a picture. you know what I mean? I mean, yeah, no, it’s like, it’s been, it’s been beaten to death. That’s just the only term I know how to use. Um, and people are skeptical now when they hear anything about it, because almost everyone that has said anything about it has either been an at an ad, uh, denier, an avid denier or, uh, an avid avid maker, upper of fantasy stuff.

Right. So, yeah. So

[00:42:25] Jeremiah: here we. . Yeah. And I’m not gonna lie. I do like to delve into the fantasy stuff too, but sure. I try to stay grounded, but it would be cool if there was like an ancient, advanced civilization with like lasers and UFOs type craft and we’re able to do whatever

[00:42:45] David: well at, at, at the, uh, at the danger of exposing my ness, I, I think Tia WinCo and some of the places you went in Peru bear the marks of a much more advanced and older civilization in their foundations, um, than, uh, than what we found in, in the Western Western Africa, Western Sahara.

Uh, but you know, they, you know, they’re all related. I, I, you know, we, we have the story of Atlantis. I’m not sure that Atlantis was the center of the world. I, I, I truly do think, you know, when you look at what was going on more in the Pacific and what was going on around Peru, especially, I think there’s, there’s a lot of interesting stuff that was going on there too.

If that makes sense. .

[00:43:25] Jeremiah: Oh, yeah, definitely. And, um, I don’t know if you’ve heard of a guy named Michael challenger. No, no. So I’ve followed him for a long time and I actually reached out to him to be on the podcast and he said, contact him back in October, cuz he’s opening some small town and south, South Africa.

And um, so he’s from South Africa and he did a lot of research in his area where he was and he found Adam’s calendar. And like it’s these stone circles in South Africa where, um, nothing was supposed to be like that back in the time that these were created, like people weren’t supposed to be sophisticated enough to create these structures or whatever they are.

Um, he has theories obviously, but um, yeah, it’s called Adam’s calendar and. Maybe that was like a precursor to the whole Atlanta’s thing. If that out Africa theory is correct, as far as

[00:44:28] David: the mainstream. Well, yeah, Southern Africa has, I mean, Southern Africa has many, many, many, many GE I don’t wanna say geological, what things made outta rock, you know, uh, that look really, really, really old, uh, and seemed to be suggesting, you know, uh, I I’m trying to not use the word advanced, but seemed to be, uh, suggesting something substantial was going on, you know, around the same time period or maybe even before, uh, yeah.

In South Africa, especially the, um, the east coast, uh, around the tip and then up by, uh, Madagascar, all of that. I know. And I’ve seen some of it, um, very interesting. Yeah. Rock formations and, and things that really tie into arche, astrology and, and all of that stuff. . Yeah. And I wonder

[00:45:15] Jeremiah: if at some point, um, maybe before our recorded history, if there wasn’t some type of global civilization where they were kind of all working together and had like all these trade routes and cuz it’s just seems weird to you get like Mack heads in south America that don’t look like they’re from there and all these other stories of like people that don’t look like the people of that area, but yet they are in contact with that.

And I don’t know something to me just doesn’t add up it’s like there’s more to the history

[00:45:54] David: than we know. I, I think so. I, I, I think, and, and one reason why I think if, if, if this place being Atlan. Mainstream, whatever that means. If we acknowledged, you know, what it seems like there’s overwhelming circumstantial evidence.

Now that that stuff was gone. The, the big thing, and I’ve been to, um, Peru, I even went, I went to the, the Dian gap and there’s, uh, pet Lipson there, way in there. I mean, it’s a brutal place, but I’ve seen those. I’ve seen the, the, I’ve been to a lot of the ruins in, um, uh, in Mexico. Uh, and I’ve, I’ve looked obviously millions of pictures and videos of other places in the world.

And I agree with you and I don’t know what it was, but they were doing something. I, I don’t know what, but they were, they were doing something. And there’s a lot of commonality, especially when you start to look at the arche astrology component of this, where a, a lot of the. You know, rules or, or I don’t know how to describe it, but, you know, they, they, they would align things to stars.

It seemed like what was going on in the sky was important to civilizations all around the world that have been lost to us. Um, now I have a theory on it, but again, I, I try not to say it in my theory, cause I don’t want people to criticize or attack a theory and then, and then, and then bring that over to Atlanta.

So I’m, I’m gonna put a lot of my theories in, in a second book. Um, but I think with Atlantas, I think we don’t find some things that we wanted. So here, here, I’ll speculate on one thing. Um, and I think Egypt supports this, I think, uh, Tua NACO, um, supports this, I think, uh, uh, what we found in Western Africa supports this, I think whatever was going on at this, this end of the last ice age, I think it was in, um, a civilization that knew they were on the, this planet and could get around it.

I’m I’m trying not to say the word advanced. Um, but I don’t think writing was that important to ’em. I, cause we don’t find a lot of writing until after this cataclysm, when you go to Egypt, then you look, you find all these, these huge megalithic base stones that a lot of their temples and structures are built on.

And, and the bigger this stone, the less chance there’s gonna be hieroglyphics or Petri glyphic are anything on it. It’s it’s the later stuff. Um, that, that seems to have all the writing. Now, my theory, so I’m gonna specul I’m get myself in trouble. My, my theory is that Atlantis was real. It got wiped out and there a lot of people survived and they were like, uhoh.

Um, you know, and maybe somehow they knew this is, was gonna happen again. So they’re like, you know what, we’re gonna have to start writing stuff down. and, and I think after Atlan is when a lot of the megalithic buildings started. Cause I think they said stuff like, you know, if, if the earth, if we’re have these kind of earthquakes, we need to build something that is so big, uh, that it survives these transitional periods that this planet goes through.

And I think that’s why you get things like the pyramids, which are ridiculously big. They’re too big. They, they only make sense if there’s something we don’t understand about ’em um, I don’t think I personally, yeah, they’re not tombs. No, they’re not tombs. They’re absolutely not tombs. I, I, I also, I personally don’t think they were power plants or water processing plants.

Um, and one of the questions I I’ve run to people that ask and I say, oh, You know, have we found pipes? I mean, are there billions of pipes coming outta these things? You know, so I don’t, I don’t what I think they were just to go and get myself in trouble. I think the idea was whatever happens on this planet is so frigging awful that almost everything gets destroyed.

So the thinking was build something that a later people will find and be interested in. And B all those chambers that look like sarcophagus chambers, but we’ve never found bodies in. I think that’s where they tried to put their records because, you know, if, if it’s, cuz if it’s heat or if it’s water or if it’s whatever, you know, you wanna try and preserve that knowledge through the transition and just, and cuz when you look at those tombs, the, uh, the stone, it’s like a foot thick and some of ’em are like three or four feet thick.

Why would you do that? Well, because that stands a good chance of surviving and, and they’re airtight. So if it went under water for a while and I, I think with the pyramids, when you look at that system, I think it’s a drainage system for when the water came up. And then the water went down cuz that’s really what it’s doing is getting the water out of the thing so that, you know, it would, it would, um, be something that people they didn’t get to.

They, they could Rege the records cuz now we have writing and then they could try and keep that, you know, keep the, the, the knowledge between getting wiped out. But I have no proof for any of that. That’s just what I think from all the reading and stuff I’ve done and it’s got nothing to do with Atlantis.

So if you don’t like that theory, it’s got nothing to do with my theory on Atlantis. My theory on Atlanta. No, no we’re going, yeah.

[00:50:23] Jeremiah: Yeah. This is just, we’re going down some rabbit holes, but it’s all good. It’s all good. Yeah. Um, yeah, I like talking about that stuff and they do say that there, they think there’s a hall of records under the Spinks or something.

So it’s definitely possible that they tried to put all the knowledge that they had and then they had the. Library of Alexandria that burnt

[00:50:44] David: down, or I was just gonna say destroyed here. Here’s what happened. It’s it’s the most tragic frigging thing. So the records did survive and Egypt is clearly a really old civilization.

And I think Graham Hancock and those guys got a lot of this. Right. Which is for some reason, the older, the, the construction, the more advanced it seems, um, I think the records survived to a degree and then they decided to put ’em all in the library of Alexandria and then they got, then they burned down so it was awful.

Yeah. Right. Um, and when you, when you study ancient Greek and I’ve taken, I I’ve taken the academic courses on it and I’ve, I’ve done a lot of readings. This idea of cataclysms was, was no Plato even mentions it. He mentions it in the laws, which was his last big work. And he says, look, everybody, you know, we know that periodically, this whole thing gets wiped out.

Anyone disagree with that and was like, nah, we know, you know, so it was part of the cultural knowledge that has been lost to us. Oh, just over the past couple thousand years.

[00:51:39] Jeremiah: Yeah. That’s one thing that I noticed, uh, right away when I was in Peru, looking at the ancient structures and all is like, people definitely had a super fixation on the stars and the planets and the heavens, and they knew something was going on.

It’s almost like they knew that they could figure out what was going on on earth based on what was going on in the sky. And you see it in the, hear it in the Bible too. They talk about signs in the sky and all that stuff.

[00:52:11] David: So here is if you were trying so like, and this is the experiment that I do with people.

So let’s say that you and I, we know tomorrow it’s over. Right. And, and some people will survive, but you know, no computers is all wiped out. We, we wanna try and tell ’em so they can be ready the next time. How do we tell ’em we can’t, we can’t use writing cuz they won’t be able to read it. Um, so what do we do?

And, and the one thing we would have would be the. it’s, it’s the one thing we have. Um, and if you look there, there’s, when you go back and I found, I found this map, someone did, I I’ve gotta re-verify it. Cause I haven’t verified it, but you line up all of these, um, ancient disasters and they start to line up to the transitions between the Zodiacs.

So there, there is, there is a rhythm to, ’em also this thing called astrology, which, which is now kind of, kind of viewed as nonsense, right? It used to be astrology and astronomy with the same thing. The, the only astronomy, the, there is only one sentence that started the whole thing. And it’s what you just said.

It, it is so close to what you just said is that the stars impact the fate of man, meaning mankind. Right? So if we, if we, if we could get that message across and have a bunch of stuff in the ground, that’s trying to tell you when it was made, so you could try and you know, a clock, right. You know, how, what else would you use?

It there’s nothing else. That’s the only thing you could do. Um, and they’ve done it. Y yeah. Yeah. Cuz then you

[00:53:42] Jeremiah: have go Beckley Tek, like you talked about. Um, and everyone that I’ve heard says that it was intentionally buried. It, someone intentionally buried it. So it’s like they knew something.

[00:53:55] David: Yeah. I think that’s been disputed a little bit.

That was the initial thought, um, that it was intentionally buried. The truth is they don’t know, they’ve only excavated like 8% of it or something or, I mean, I mean around 10%, um, plus, or minus a couple percent, uh, so it could have been buried. It also could, you know, one of the things we see, you see this in, um, Tico, you see it in, um, the, the rich hat structure, you see it all over is when these delusions happen, whatever they are, they tend to mix water and land tends to mix, which makes mud.

So everything tends to get covered in mud and gets buried a little bit. Um, so that could have happened there. I, I know that they intentionally buried at theory. I, I, I don’t, I’ve, I’ve heard the argument and I’ve seen the evidence for me. It doesn’t, I don’t have anything to dispute it, but it also doesn’t make, doesn’t make sense.

One, one of my theories is, you know, we can’t subscribe idiocy to ancient people just because they’re ancient people, so they can’t be stupid. So how would people who kind of have some agriculture, but it’s still a dangerous world. Why would they spend six years toting dirt up a hill to bury this amazing place?

Maybe they did. I, but I mean, you know, I just don’t know.

[00:55:07] Jeremiah: Yeah. I don’t know either, but there’s also another thing I’ve been hearing about recently and I don’t know a lot about it, but I just wanted to bring it up is the whole thing of like mud floods and this, I forget the name of it starts with a T like tar tartar or something.

Um, I dunno, but supposedly it’s a. Whole lost civilization of time that happened between like, I don’t know, ancient Egypt, Greece, and, and like, you know, current time, like the dark ages or whatever. I, I don’t know that much about it, but I just heard, I just didn’t know if you heard about it or not. No.

[00:55:51] David: Although I’ve just recently started watching the Y files. I do watch the Y files on YouTube. Have you ever heard of that? W H Y I don’t know who this guy is. He’s, he’s doing very well. It’s very, very popular. He’s been doing it for years. Um, he had a video out that said, uh, the dark ages were faked. Like really it’s only the 17th century cuz they, when they fiddle with the calendar, um, I mean I’ve heard, you know, I’ve heard everything, uh, and some of it kind of makes sense.

Um, but you know, we talked earlier, Brian Forster or Forster, I, he spells his name a little funny. Um, but you know, he, he has said a lot, but what I like about him is he just walks around with his video camera. Yeah. And he just records everything, um, in Peru, in Mexico and all that. And it’s just like, when you just watch and I watch at least a half an hour, his stuff every day, just to, not even with the sound up, just to see everything.

Cause I can’t get all over the world and see everything. I don’t have the money. Um, and it’s just, it’s just amazing. It’s just amazing. What’s out there. Yeah. But I, but I don’t know. The only thing I do know is the rich a structure is Atlanta’s , that’s all I know.

[00:56:53] Jeremiah: the rest of it. I don’t know. So if, uh, people want to get ahold of you and your book or whatever, how can they go

[00:57:01] David: about doing that?

Yeah. Go to the publisher website. The publisher is frequency 99. So it’s frequency nine, And they’ve got, uh, I, I have a, a producer I guess. And I, I have, I have people and, and they, they, you know, and there’s emails up there and stuff and, uh, you can get links to the book links to me, uh, and, uh, that, yeah.

Frequency 90

[00:57:24] Jeremiah: And I’ll put it all in the, uh, show description as well, so they can get there fast and appreciate that. So, in closing, uh, any last things you wanted to say about Atlantis and your book?

[00:57:36] David: Um, you know, the only thing I would say is, uh, go into it with an open mind. Um, I, I do think the book is pretty good.

Um, it’s gotten decent reviews. Matter of fact, it was ahead of one of Graham Hancock’s new books for like a month when it first came out. So I did nothing but drink champagne and, and throw myself parties. It no longer is he has what they call staying power where I don’t. But, um, it’s, it’s a very approachable book and it just simply all the book does, it says, here’s what Plato said.

Let’s pull it apart. apply. come up with some rules. Like we, we gotta believe what he said, and we gotta put this in historical context. We gotta find corroborating sources and then we gotta be able to verify everything. Um, and it just makes it creates requirements. just goes through and walks through each one.

And by the end of the book, you’re like, Yeah. And the reviews I get on the book, um, they’re not all good. I’ve got, I’ve got two. The worst reviews I got are three star reviews, which are still really good reviews. And the both of them are just the, they’ve almost say the same thing, which is the guy who wrote, this is a pompous ass who probably can’t sign a check much less finished or sentence, but by God, by the time I got done with the book, I think, I believe he found it and he makes a good case.

So I mean, that, that’s like the best compliment I could have, which is I don’t like, I don’t like the guy. I don’t like what he wrote, but, but it’s compelling, you know, by the time I get to the end of it, uh, you know, when they say I was a skeptic when I started, but I’m done like, yeah. I mean, there it is.

And the other thing I do do in the book is I lay it all out. So you don’t have to listen to. To come to reach the same conclusion. Everything I say is, is, is either provide you in the book or you can go find it as an historical source or, or you can look at the pictures and the maps and Google earth, and you can do the measurements yourself and you can reach your own conclusion.

Um, and, uh, I I’ve, I have people that don’t agree, but they it’s not because they disagree with what I did in the book. They, they don’t read the book, they don’t like this answer. So they, they skip the proof and just don’t like it, you know? Um, and, uh, which is fine, that, that that’s that’s, I mean, this is a goofy topic, right?

So everyone, everyone has, they, they believe what they believe. Yeah, I know like

[00:59:41] Jeremiah: Randall Carlson, like you said, he thinks it’s, uh, somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic. Yeah. Or like right off the coast of Africa. I forget

[00:59:50] David: exactly where, but he thinks it’s the a was I actually, I added after the book came out, I added an appendix.

Um, because I didn’t quite realize I, I, I was step with this book. I was stepping into a conversation that had been going on for quite some time. And there’s basically five criticisms that he lays out, which, and I put ’em all in the book and then I, I, I tackle each one. So by the end, I actually think his criticisms are actually strengths that, that support this place.

Number one. And then number two, I, I tell everyone. It, it doesn’t mean the, a wars weren’t part of the kingdom and that everything he said and found could still be true, but there’s no round city there with concentric islands of 345 miles inland. And that are it’s bigger than Libya and Africa. You know, it doesn’t mean all the requirements, um, of being the, the capital, but it, but he’s made a good case that some was going on there, this, that it supports this.

So they, they don’t really conflict, even though he, for some reason, decided to take an adversarial approach to this particular answer. Dunno why, whatever, just, you know, come see himself. Yeah. And there’s also

[01:00:50] Jeremiah: a lot of like sunken cities all around the world too. Cuz when the ice age was in full force, obviously the sea levels were lower and you find cities off of like India and Japan and probably south America and even America.

Yeah. Um, We haven’t taken the time or the resources to explore at all. Um, or they purposely hide it from

[01:01:16] David: us. Yeah. I, I, I think that, I think some of it is purposeful, although some of it is just arrogance on the part of, you know, I got into a big argument just, just recently with, um, a couple academic historians, nice people.

Um, and I basically said, look, you know, the professionalization of, of, of being a, um, uh, you know, someone who studies history as a profession, uh, is great in all, but, but what happens is over time, people vest in their views and then they fight change because the change might undo the thing that made them.

Right. Uh, so, you know, so, so we have these people that consider themselves the stewards of history, historians. Who are vested in it being the history they learned and have been talking about versus processing new things. That’s why I go vaguely Tepe. It’s it’s like the Rosetta stone for all of this. No one can deny it exists.

Everyone says it’s there. And then you ask ’em well, how, how does that fit? And they go, we don’t know, it’s, it’s anomaly.  Not an anomaly. you know, a thousand acre, massive prehistoric neolithic site. we gotta have, we need to have an answer for it. And they’ve actually found lots of other tepees apparently, um, that are out there, some dating, even older.

So, you know, I think, and you and I were talking just to wrap it up with, with total CISM, uh, you know, from, from my standpoint, I mean, personally, what I think is that this cycle has been going on way longer than we, we would be horrified, be like we were in a horror movie. If we understood every, you know, three to.

Uh, to 12,000 years, this planet something terrible happens. And then it takes thousands of years for people to come back. Um, but I think that’s been going on for, for very, very, very long time. The other thing just to close everyone says, well that. It can’t be because we know we find that people we’re living in caves, it’s like, yeah.

After one of these big thing after daily, if it happens to us and we survive, we’re gonna head for a cave too. That’s just where you start back. Right. It’s just, it’s, it’s it’s base. Um, but yeah, so, so yeah, I think, I think it’s going on for a very long time. Uh, and I think this planet is probably a nightmare in the long run. But I think it’s okay for us now.

I think, I think, you know, or, I mean, you look at all these cycles, there’s nothing coming up. I think in our lifetime, some people argue 2050 and stuff, but I mean, I, I don’t see it necessarily. Um, but who knows, you know, you can’t predict the future.

[01:03:38] Jeremiah: Yeah. There’s definitely something there. I totally believe that there’s been law civilizations.

I mean, you can have. Works from like Graham Hancock. Trying to think of some other ones. Michael Tellinger and, uh, Michael Cremo. Who does forbidden archeology and all that. There’s definitely something Robert, Robert

[01:04:03] David: Bal, um, whoever the guy, I forget the guy’s name. Who found, who, who said the Springs was probably water.

He’s very famous. I can’t I’m I’m I’m bad. Oh yeah. Robert Shaw, Robert Robert Shaw, the whole list. Pretty much. They all wind up on ancient aliens. They, they cycle through ancient aliens at some point. So, just look at that roster. No it’s and ancient aliens is just fun. There’s lots of people who’ve done really good work here.

Um, and I think the evidence is overwhelming at this point that, that, that our history is much older than we. oh, yeah, for

In Conclusion

[01:04:34] Jeremiah: sure. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on and speaking with us about Atlantas and your book. And even when we got a little off track, it’s still a lot of valuable information.

[01:04:45] David: look, it’s fun.

I tell it’s people are as passionate about stuff like this as they are about politics. But, we used to be able to argue politics and have fun. Now you can’t, you can’t even talk about it. We can argue this stuff all day and it’s still fun and it’s passionate. It’s interest. It’s intellectually interesting.

Um, and just like your Christmas president. There’s a chance when you unwrap it, it’s gonna blow your mind. Just, and just change, you know, your entire worldview. Um, which I think, uh, I think would be good. Yeah. And I

[01:05:10] Jeremiah: Feel like it would be a disservice to mankind to not look into these things. Not, uh, question things.

I think if you just stick to one viewpoint, one philosophy, then you’re just, uh, preventing. Possibilities cause if something happened in the past and we need to know about it, uh. If we just shut it off, then we’re gonna be screwed.

[01:05:38] David: yeah. Look, there’s been 23 species of humans that they know about there. There was 22 up until may of this year.

They just found the 23rd. The idea that we’re the first ones, 2000, 3000 years ago to figure out. You know, the, the, what a wheel is and, uh, and that kind of stuff. Just doesn’t, it doesn’t make sense. How, I mean, you’re talking hundreds of thousands or millions of years of people just doing what? Sitting on a tree stump and what were they doing?

You know, I mean, it seems built into us to, to organize in advance. That just seems to be part of who we are and, and to suggest that all the others that came before weren’t that. And suddenly we are, it just make, it doesn’t make any sense to me. Um, and there’s so much evidence that, uh, is out there that it just, I think it’s overwhelming.

I think, I think is obvious. Oh, yeah, for sure.

[01:06:27] Jeremiah: All right. Well thank you for coming on. I enjoyed

[01:06:30] David: it. All right. Jamara yeah, no, look, pleasure talking to you. We’ll have to do it again.

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Secrets of the Sasquatch

Secrets of the Sasquatch

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[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow terrestrials and welcome back. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of what if the wrong podcast. Today, we have an excellent interview with my boys over at Dockside media. They’re back to talk to us about their new documentary secrets of the Sasquatch. So we’re gonna get into all that good, big foot Sasquatch stuff, as well as some other things we’re gonna talk about and go over their filmmaking journey and other stuff.

I think you’re really gonna enjoy that, but first make sure to like, and review the show. Just lets me know you’re enjoying the content helps with, uh, keeping the show high on the rankings. If you could do that for me, I’d highly appreciate it. Also, you can go to shoot me a message. If you want to be a guest on the show, or if you just want to chat or send me any type of information, you can reach me on the contact page.

On the website. All links will be down below in the description. So without further ado, let’s get with these guys over here at doc side media, talk, everything Bigfoot, and remember question everything.


Hello, and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast? I’m your host. Jeremiah. I’m here with Tyler and Chris from Dockside media.

The soon to be epic and legendary production company, make the best documentaries. , uh, stuff that you would see on TV. So I’ll introduce him now. Hey, Chris and Tyler here. Hey

[00:02:18] Chris: Jeremiah. Thank you. Thanks for having us again.

[00:02:21] Tyler: Yeah, Jeremiah. Thanks for having us on the, what if the wrong podcast and yeah, dude, I, I cannot, uh, discredit anything you say that all sounded good to me.

Our tagline in fact, is dude Tyler here and Chris with Dockside media tr the dopest documentary production company, this side of the Milky way. Dig it dug ITG now, but let’s go check it. So yeah, dude, you, you, um, I think hit us right in the glove there with that statement, man, we’re trying to crank out interesting, informative, entertaining, and thought provoking documentaries, uh, about different paranormal and supernatural topics and our newest documentary secrets of the Sasquatch, uh, released July 5th on Amazon, apple TV, iTunes, Google play PlayStation and Microsoft, and, uh, Man, we, we love it.

It’s our third documentary so far, and we’ve been getting a lot of great feedback and we’re certainly proud of the work that we’ve done and the people we’ve interviewed and the places we’ve gone and the way all these stories and experiences are interwoven through Chris editing it together. Um, man, it, we’re just, we’re really honored to be here talking about this documentary, man.

Thanks so much for having us.

[00:03:42] Jeremiah: Yes. I’m uh, really excited to talk with you guys about it. I did watch it myself, um, with my fiance too. She likes watching everything as well and um, yeah, definitely high quality work again. I must commend you or is that the right word? Yeah, we’ll take it. We’ll take it. Yeah.

[00:04:02] Tyler: yeah, no, that’s great. That’s. Uh, I

[00:04:06] Jeremiah: almost said condemn you . Wow.

[00:04:09] Tyler: We probably deserve that as well.

[00:04:14] Jeremiah: but no, definitely high quality work. And, uh, like I said, in the intro, something you would see on TV and you guys are killing it and coming out with so many different, I’ve never seen someone come out with as many documentaries in such a short time.

So, and to have it all be quality too. It’s not, uh, we hustle yeah. Piecing ’em together. Yeah. It’s not like you’re being cheap about it or

[00:04:38] Chris: anything. No, I mean, we, we put the time in, we definitely move though. We hustle. I mean, dioxide media is just Tyler and I, um, who do all of the production now, obviously our movies are made because of the people we interview are, uh, so fascinating and have such compelling stories.

So, so much of the credit obviously goes to these people that we. Involved in our docs, but, uh, yeah, no, we’re hustling. I just, we’re just about done with the fourth one in plain sight. The intelligence community in UFOs sent Tyler a cut of it, uh, yesterday. So, you know, we have to do some tweaking and stuff, but that one’s done and that’s a banger as well.

Um, but were you here to talk about the Sasquatch, Jeremiah? So I got a question for you. Um, what’s your thoughts on the Sasquatch? Just gen general thoughts?

[00:05:36] Jeremiah: So, um, I actually just talked to someone the other day about this and, uh, we were throwing back ideas and I personally think that Bigfoot is a leftover hoed mm-hmm so like there’s different types of homages and.

Like, I know Lucy was one where they found the skeleton mm-hmm and, uh, different branches that we came off of. And I think they’re just left over from that, that survived by hiding in the deep woods and cave systems and different areas of the planet where people aren’t very populated and, um, they are all over the planet.

I’ve heard of ’em from south America type be and, uh, obviously America mm-hmm, , there’s some talk about some in the UK as well. Yeah. So yeah, that’s my thought processes. And then we talked about like their connection with UFOs, which we’ll get into in a little bit, but, um, yeah, I do. And I think a lot of them, uh, there’s massive cave systems around the world, and I think it’s possible that they hide out a lot in those cave systems too.

So that’s probably why we haven’t seen ’em too much, especially. Deep woods where, um, humans can’t really navigate too well. Mm-hmm unless you’re like crocodile Dundee or something. yeah,

[00:07:04] Chris: yeah, no, that’s interesting. That’s kind of the, the same place I land on the phenomena. If, if, if I was to have like a, you know, somebody said, what, what do you think gun to your head?

I would say, yeah, a leftover homage, like a gigantis type creature. Um, cuz the world is a big place, man. Like we think it’s small just cuz our lives are so small a lot of times, but the world is a big place and there are lots of places where people don’t venture very often and creatures in the forest.

Don’t like to be. I go out in the forest and you walk a trail and you just gotta think about how many animals are around you, that you’re not seeing, um, cuz that’s their ecosystem, their environment. They’re accustomed to that. They’re built for that. And so if there’s a creature that lives in these deep woods, I gotta think it’s got those abilities as well to hide itself from any kind of threat.

Um, but you know, our movie explores all different kinds of topics with Sasquatch. So we do have that alien connection in there. We’ve got a bunch of other, um, theories that are, are, are discussed and then experiences as well. So kind of runs the gamut of the whole Sasquatch. You could say there are secrets in it that we relay about the Sasquatch.

You could say that. Tyler would say that. And what’s Tyler , ,

[00:08:29] Jeremiah: I’m absolutely

[00:08:30] Tyler: saying that. I’m absolutely saying that. I thought mom was the word, and then you gave me the cue to talk. So yo man, I think that’s like our B WIC is, is, uh, kind of what, um, Jeremiah mentioned, you know, in the beginning about just this diversity of topics and, and being high quality.

And, and man, I feel like, you know, that’s what doc side media does is we, we really try our best to not set limits on what we can do or like, you know, be like, oh, well, so, and so only made can only make one documentary every six years or yeah, or so, and so, you know, has to drop a hundred thousand dollars into making a document.

Like we just followed our hearts and we was like, dude, we got credit cards and we can just. You know, between the helpful people and, and, and, you know, traveling, et cetera. Uh, we had like the equipment already. And so I just, I love, um, man, I like, I real, since we’ve been making these paranormal documentaries, I buy more into the woo side of things only because man, I feel like we really manifested us getting to this point on this podcast, just by the, uh, just, just by the hustle and by the joy and fun.

Like we, we like doing this. This is, I don’t know, man. It gets my heart pumping. I love going on these adventures and meeting these genuine people who had these genuine, just far out experiences, man, that I can’t explain. so it’s cool. Like prior to making these docs, I would’ve been in, oh, it’s probably just a leftover Sasquatch probably exists, but it’s like some, yeah.

Leftover like BI hominin or whatever. Uh, but yeah, I don’t know, after interviewing people like Sue Walker and, and, uh, um, you know, wouldn’t be shocked if there is some sort of interdimensional or extraterrestrial, um, piece to this, because like, uh, you had mentioned like sightings in the UK and it’s neat.

We were on a podcast, a pursuit of the paranormal and they had brought up sightings as well, and that they had, uh, thought and then had like a cool synchronicity when watching the film of, oh man, like this would explain. Sightings in a densely populated area that doesn’t really have like a ton of deep woods, like, you know, the, the, the us, or yep.

Certainly like to bed or, or in Russia or the south America, et cetera. Um, so it’s cool. I’m like, I’m definitely open minded. I wouldn’t be shocked if we found out that yeah. The reason for footprints appearing, but then disappearing, like into nowhere could be because of these, these, uh, interdimensional reasons.


[00:11:33] Jeremiah: definitely. Um, had heard, there seems to be some type of link between. UFOs and, uh, Sasquatch and seems like there’s some something there, either the UFOs or aliens are abducting them just like they’re abducting us and experimenting on them as well. Or they’re somehow in cahoots or maybe interdimensional, like you said, there’s definitely

[00:12:01] Tyler: potential for yeah.

Or maybe they’re like the rarest of the Pokemon. So they’re just study out, like you said, like studying, you know, it’s like, oh, well, that’s why they’re appearing near them. Um, you know, it was funny, one of the camp outs I went on for secrets of the Sasquatch and it ended up just being me by myself, uh, because the other, uh, person who, who Randy Smith is in the film.

And I, and I camped out with him later, but on this particular weekend it just happened to CA cancel and I’m like, ah, dude, I’m heading out anyways. And I just went out in the woods by myself, up near Centia this dope little ghost town in Pennsylvania. Um, and. yeah, dude setting up my, my tent, like in the dark at night, freezing cold 26 degrees.

Right. And I see this like UFO, like, uh, track across the sky stop and then start dropping, pause, start dropping, pause, start. And it was like, what? I try to get my phone out by the time I got it out. It’s down by like pass the tree line, but it was, it was just wild that I went out with the intentions of looking for Sasquatch and trying to have some sort of, uh, experience and ended up, yeah, seeing this, this UFO and then on another camp out, uh, the one with Eric Hubbard and Desiree Patton who are both in the film, uh, that one, we happened to see Starling, right?

The satellite train, cruise acrossed overhead. And it was super trippy. Like had I not seen a YouTube video before? I would’ve for sure. Thought we were being invaded by aliens cuz I know nothing manmade that can cover that much degrees of the sky. And then. You know, since it’s reflecting light, like it’s not illuminating any light or self illuminating, like it just, and it looks like, um, as it goes into the shadow of the earth, like, it looks like it just drops into a wormhole, cuz it just like is no longer illuminated, but so it just disappears like, yeah, like 20 degrees up the Skyway and it’s like what?

It looks like, like the fabric of space time is just ripped apart or something. It was um, yeah dude, it’s nuts. So, uh, yeah, there could definitely be a link between these UFOs and Sasquatch. I mean, that’s kind of my experience so far.

[00:14:15] Jeremiah: yeah. I like how you guys came at it in the documentary of different angles.

It wasn’t just one thought process. It was kind of trying to convey different theories. Cuz a lot of documentaries, they, unfortunately we all have biases and stuff like that. So they try to paint one picture. But in your documentary it was, you had different aspects and different ways to go about it. Like you had that one guy who was very like, well I think they’re real, but I can’t prove it then, you know, Sue Walker talking about them, dealing with extraterrestrials and then you had like the people who are like, oh yeah, it’s real.

It’s just a, you know, hoed or whatever. Mm-hmm so I like the different angles that you guys took on that

[00:15:01] Chris: one. Yeah. I mean, and that just speaks to the, the people because we Don. we don’t specifically, we just reached out to people who had experiences with Sasquatch. So we didn’t have a particular narrative in mind with any of this stuff, you know, besides like, what are your thoughts on Sasquatch?

What are your experiences? And so they all have their own experiences and sometimes, uh, those experiences line up. And so you see like a pattern amongst people, which is interesting. Um, and then other times, you know, there’s the, the other experiences that, that are just way out there and different. But what we like to do is trying to like give people, their stories, get them out there, and maybe something clicks with somebody up, somebody, you know, maybe something triggers in.

Them’s like, oh yeah, maybe this is a possibility. Um, cuz we’re not trying to like preach at people in that way. Do you know what I mean? Cause I’m not, I’m not trying to convince you that this is. Exactly what it is. We’re just trying to, to get people to open their minds a bit to the ideas, uh, that we’re presenting.

So, uh, I think that’s, again, the way we cut these kind of things by cutting around to different people, I think it just gets your mind kind of working about everything. And we, we don’t like stick with one person throughout the whole thing in one long, you know what I mean? Like dump. So you get different perspectives, you keep jumping around.

And I think that, uh, gets those gears moving, cuz you’re like, wait, I want to learn more about that. But now we’re on to this next thing. And then we come back, you know what I mean? So that’s the plan, at least.

[00:16:40] Tyler: Exactly. And we like to, um, like, like Chris had opened people’s mind and just like maybe generate some momentum because I feel like this is how these things get uncovered and discovered when people just feel comfortable.

Oh, generating dialogue. And just talking about this stuff, like dude just saw an article like. Something washed up on the beach, on a beach in North Carolina. I forget what park Rangers, et cetera, like founded or, or it happened to be like some like legitimate eco, uh, some ecological person or entity. And, uh, yeah, they’re asking the public for help identifying this unknown species.

Right. We’ve been, we’ve been using magnifying glasses and submarines and microscopes and like telescopes and just everything to like explore the earth. And here’s like this little tiny creature that’s dead. They’re like, we have no idea what, what this thing is. They’re like six inches long. There’s like a bunch of ’em or whatever, or a number of them.

Uh, so, oh dude, we just, yep. We, we hope we’re trying to like, um, just do our part to. Yeah. Just allow people or, or talk about these interesting and fascinating topics. And man, the things that people would’ve been talking about a hundred years ago, would’ve been absolutely. They would’ve been labeled insane today.

And, uh, you know, who knows what, what, like we’re talking about today that at one time was very fringe and kind of, uh, just, yeah, kind of had a stigma to it. Um, it’s dude, it’s neat that there’s a lot of different shows now and different Facebook and social media groups and people were being encouraged to re go out and seek these, um, experiences and report back about them.

And, uh, I think it’s a good time to be making this type of content and we hope that we’re doing like some small part to inspire people to just, yeah. Be curious, man. Just be curious about. The world around them in the universe. Cause I feel like there’s a lot more out there, uh, that will unlock in another 2000 years that our grandkids, grandkids, grandkids will be like, yo poppy, how did you not know?

You could just press this button and teleport from here to anywhere in the universe. You guys did it in harness quantum entanglement. We’re like, nah, dude, we didn’t know shit. We were, we were barbarians.

[00:19:12] Chris: I think our lives as humans are so short and like societies as a whole take so long for change to occur that like we don’t see it so day to day, but like 20 years ago, the world was a different place and people, these there’s ideas that were different and stuff like that.

Do you know what I mean? So like when you’re talking about these fringe topic, you are stigmatized a bit, but when we keep talking about ’em with the podcasts, with the movies, it becomes way less stigmatized. That’s how you get that slow churning in this acceptance of some of these ideas. I mean, let’s look at like the UFO phenomenon, like the governments now, you know, the UAP task force, all these things.

It’s like, I don’t know, 20 years ago, if it would’ve been unheard of, right. Like something like that. But now it’s just, well, people with

[00:20:07] Tyler: tin, foil, hats, exactly. Pre exactly. And sacrificing goats to try and get that to happen. Exactly. Thinking, oh dude, never in a million years. Well, we have people report to Congress.

Right. And like have to be accountable. Nobody. Right. Nobody saw that kind of now like talks of like possible like immunity and stuff. Yeah. It’s like, wait, what? So hold on. Now we might get some reasoning behind these. These phenomena, uh, and that people will be forgiven because well, it, whatever the whole world would’ve collapsed or something had, they tried to accept it at that time.

But now that we have VR and, and the metaverse, and that we can be doing these 10 80 P live streams, like it’s harder to yeah. Maybe contain that as a species. We’re just a little bit more open to like, oh dude, I, I don’t know. Most of the stuff we’re doing around here looks pretty magical to my , you know, peanut sized brain.

Like, I don’t understand how it all works. I just know that it works.

[00:21:14] Jeremiah: Yeah. Yeah. I kinda like the theory, um, that I’ve heard that remember in 2012, the world was supposed to end and the Mayan doomsday and all that stuff. Well, A lot of people are saying like, no, it wasn’t supposed to be like a cataclysm or like the end.

It was kind of like the end of an age. And now we’re shifting into a new age and it kind of kind of makes you think, because just think back from 2012 to now, like how much has changed, how much has come to light and how much stuff like this has become more accepted. And, uh, obviously there’s been some bad things too, but it just seems like people are more open-minded now than, than

[00:22:00] Chris: they used to be.

Well, and, and technology improves so quickly now and changes so quickly. So like, you know, cell phones now have amazing cameras in them. Um, and so like, there’s just, and there’s so many, so many more people who have them, so it it’s, you get all these videos of these QoS and stuff. It’s just harder to. , it’s not less hearsay anymore.

Cuz now there’s just tons of videos out there. You know what I mean? But you go back to the nineties and you talk to your uncle. Who’s like, yeah, I saw a UFO and you’re like, okay, uncle , I’m sure you did, but now you go on like YouTube and there’s like a million videos, you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s just a different world,

[00:22:43] Tyler: right?

Yeah, it is. And it just, how far out is it that, you know, we’ve got like maybe a reason for kind of the push towards disclosure and the government, uh, oversight and this kind of stuff is like, dude, we’ve got private companies going up into space space, whoever thought every, an everyday person, like not like, uh, you know, the government which we think of this massive entity or whatever, but like some everyday person generated enough capital.

to not only get into space, but drastically improve the method to get there. So it’s like, oh, well, dude. Yeah. Is it only a matter of time until whatever? Is there something on the dark side of the moon, right. Where, where, you know, private companies are now exploring out there or they’re harnessing, uh, asteroids and finding, just teaming with different various forms of like microbial life or something.

You know what I mean? Mm-hmm, like, I don’t know. I, uh, maybe it’s this push cuz it’s like, oh dude, what, you know, what typically happens is like, I don’t know whoever puts out the narrative first typically stick. Sure. So imagine like some really, really rich guy, whatever kind of has a holy grail of kind of what’s all going on with this and that they can shape it to suit their typically like capitalist needs where they’re trying to generate more money.

Um, Yeah. I don’t know. It’s just an interesting dichotomy, but the, the competition, whatever private company’s going up there. Like, I think it’s all good, man, because it, it forces government agencies, uh, to hopefully have to kind of be accountable for what they’ve seen and what do, what they’ve documented on radar,

[00:24:36] Chris: et cetera.

It honestly sounds like science fiction from like the late seventies, early eighties. I mean, like alien was like late 79 or something, but that’s about like a private ity who goes out and, and refines oars and stuff out in deep space. Uh, I guess the concern there is at what point does, like, these companies become more powerful than the government, right?

I mean, it’s probably already headed that way if not, it already is. Um, and then you have like your just like cyberpunk dystopian futures, where everybody just works for one or two corporations. And like, you know what I mean? Who knows though? But all that stuff is like, Like when you think about it, like, oh yeah, that’s kind of happening.

Uh, it was fun in these sci-fi movies, but it’s, it’s different in reality, but it’s still kind of happening.

[00:25:27] Jeremiah: Yeah. And a lot of, uh, a lot of conspiracies are actually turning out to be true now, cuz I always see like memes online that are like, Hey, uh, what was a conspiracy three weeks ago is now fact it’s like crazy.

[00:25:41] Chris: Yeah. World moves

[00:25:42] Jeremiah: fast. And then you have the whole, uh, you have the whole U uh, UFO. You have a documentary coming out on like UFOs and stuff.

But um, the whole fact that the government itself is actually. Releasing all this UFO documentation and saying, yeah, there’s a craft that we don’t know what the heck they are, what it is. And then you have like MI Kaku saying like, yeah, that craft moves like nothing we have on earth. And it’s kind of like it’s

[00:26:15] Chris: wild.

And that, that is deep into what in plain sight, the intelligence community and UFOs talks about, um, with the aspect of the government’s involvement in covering things up. Um, cause we have like Richard Doty in the docu documentary, John Ramirez, you know, these two people who worked for the government have insight into their behavior.

Um, Tom carries in there. Who’s basically the expert on Roswell. I talked to over 601st and secondhand witnesses, um, basically knows anything he’s in encyclopedia of Roswell. So it covers all that stuff and talks about disclosure. Um, I’m really excited to put that out. I wish we could get it out like tomorrow because it’s just so relevant to this moment.

But dealing with the distributor and stuff, there’s a delay, obviously. So we hope to have that out, you know, early winter at this point, but we’ll see

[00:27:15] Tyler: what, what press fall. What’s 70 days from today? Well, say we deliver the end of this week. What’s 70 add 70 days to the end of July. All right. So we got didn’t.

I didn’t sign up for math here October. Okay. Well, there you go. We’re still in fall we’re football season, dude, you can watch some football and then watch some aliens and some former intelligence officers, counter intelligence officers and just. These far people and, uh, to Chris’s point, yo, it was a really sick, uh, man, just serendipitous moment, like where we’re basically finished with secrets of the Sasquatch, which for the listeners is the one out right now on Amazon, apple TV, iTunes, Google play PlayStation at Microsoft.

Um, but we did all the camp outs, interviewed all the experiences interviewed Sue Walker. Uh, who’s a telepath and clairvoyant and medical intuitive. And, but I’m like Chris, like the whole time, we’re like, dude, we, we gotta get like an anthropologist. Mm-hmm we just, we need like an academic perspective. Um, and I, and dude, I’ll be dipped in shit if we didn’t line up an interview with Tom Carey for, in, for the in plain site, the intelligence community UFOs doc, and we record his interview and like afterwards, yeah, comes.

That he’s an degreed anthropologist and has just, you know, an academic opinion on Sasquatch. And we’re like, wait, what egg Todd, can you all right. Can we switch you over to this side? Can you go change your shirt? We’ll flip the lights and cameras around and we go and we’ll run, we’ll run another interview, uh, while we have you here.

And he was all for it. So it was just really cool, man. Cuz I don’t think the doc, I don’t know. It’s just not as well rounded. I don’t think it’s as good without the, his scientific, um, opinion. And it’s just neat and I love too, just the experiences and the hunters we got, we got people that lived in New Mexico, uh, tra fished in hunt in uh, West Virginia.

Um, we were in Western PA, Northeastern, Pennsylvania, and these are the type of people that like what I camped out with that have had, you know, uh, either one or multiple experiences. You know, like Randy Smith, for example, again, it’s freezing. It’s mid twenties starts snowing. We got a fire going. He’s the type of guy like, oh man, we gotta rearrange these logs.

Just bear, handing, picking up burning logs, just moving them around in this fire. He’s fishing to kill time bright. And it’s again, freezing like my, I have gotten mittens on and I’m by the fire trying to stay warm and he’s out there bare handing all this cold wet gear. And he’s just a tough dude. He’s like the type of guy like, oh, that was a Fox.

Oh, that was a raccoon. Oh, that was a squirrel up. That was a deer. Um, dude, like when he’s like I’ll dude, that was a Sasquatch. Like I, I would be inclined to believe him. There’s certain people who, who just, I don’t know, they have that innate ability. And I’ve also through like, I guess a lot of experience.

Man, like the woods is just in their blood man. Like if a, like if an atomic bomb drops around here, like I’m trying to find Randy dude. Cause I know Randy will be able to keep me alive out there despite 20 years of hunting, like for me and never getting a deer, I’m that type of guy, if I had that in my blood or DNA, I’d be Randy.

And know what all these sounds and all these things were, but no, I’m a knucklehead with a bunch of cameras and curiosity and interest in these topics. And so it, it was neat like for Randy and Alfred, like, and, and for Randy, I love that. He says, uh, and it’s like concluded in the trailer. Uh, just that like, oh, I always said like I’ve ever saw Aqua I’d run right at it.

Uh, but man, when I saw that thing, like I just, I froze like I couldn’t move and man, I like, my money would have been on Randy. Be the type of guy, just, yeah, like if he said he would run at it, I, I believe that he would run at it. He was, he was a tough. Tough character. Um, and just, yeah, knew the woods, like the back of his hands.

So it was cool. And Alfred Martinez, same deal. I could just tell, I mean, these guys eat, breathe, sleep, you know, uh, hunting and, and being out in the wilderness and Alfred having like an experience, you know, 20 years ago. And like it being that impactful that he is like chased and explored and, and tried to get more information and more experiences on Sasquatch for the last like 20, 30 years or whatever.

Like, that’s a, that’s crazy, you know, like that’s a super powerful experience man, to be like life altering. Um, and so, yeah, he was a very, just interesting and compelling individual

[00:32:17] Jeremiah: as well. Oh yeah, definitely. I liked the, um, like I said, I liked how you had some, uh, , I don’t know how to say it. I don’t want to like, like you had the eccentric side and then you had like the serious side and, uh, kind of all melded together.

And then it was up to the viewer to like, figure

[00:32:39] Chris: out what it’s the woo angle. And the more we do these docs, cuz when I, when we first started doing this stuff, the woo stuff, just never really stuck with me. Made sense. I’m like, I’m not a religious person, so I don’t have that strong of belief in spirituality, stuff like that.

But the woo stuff actually starts to make a lot of sense. Sometimes. Like we talked about like what would technology look like a hundred years from now? Like it’ll be mind blowing. It’ll be UN I won’t be able to fathom it probably right now, my current existence. And so that’s woo. Like, you know what I mean?

That’s just, we can’t understand it yet. Uh, so that there’s potential there. Do you know what I mean? That we just. There’s technologies out there from different species of life in this universe that is so far beyond us, that to us it’s magic. And so who’s to say at that point, right. Um, that’s the woo angle.

I think maybe the skeptic in me is limiting sometimes in these things where it’s like, well, it’s, I can’t imagine it in this current existence and realm. So it can’t be real, which I don’t know. Maybe that’s like, I’m saying maybe that’s just my limitations of my mind and not being open to those things, but the more we do these things, it’s getting a little

[00:34:01] Tyler: bit more open.

That’s what it’s all about. Yeah. And I mean, I would implore you like, dude, what, what does a million more years of technological evolution look like? We, we have no clue. Like, I mean, we can’t, our feeble minds can. We couldn’t even generate in the most far out sci-fi novel right now, or, or movie story we could not even possibly come up with what stuff looks like and how we can manipulate space, time, all these things at a whim, a million years from now.

And like how, I don’t know, conceded of us to maybe be like, oh, maybe there’s intelligent life out there in this really, really massively big universe nearly like, not infinite, but dude, like, I don’t know. It just keeps going and going and it keeps spreading right at like this speed of light kind of shit.

So, um, but like who are we to think? Oh dude. Okay. Maybe there’s stuff out there, but we definitely were, the first ones could be sent in. Yeah. And, and we were, I’ll be damn if we weren’t the, the best at advancing technology, like, and manipulating our surroundings with our and building stuff. And you being creative.

Like, I don’t know, dude, I, I wouldn’t bet money on, we were the first, uh, yeah. To involve like, uh, 10 or whatever, or that we were the most efficient at evolving. Like, so yeah, dude, I don’t know. And anything that’s out like above those parameters, they’re already doing some mind, all like just mind blowing stuff.

I wonder

[00:35:53] Chris: what that is in inhumanity, where it’s like that hubris of ours to think, like we have to think we’re something special, um, in this, in this existence, uh, I don’t know. Maybe that is a, a form of just a way to wrap our minds around the infinite nature of the galaxy, because it’s. it’s like, you’re saying it’s like, it’s unimaginable.

Like, just to think, like you see those pictures, the recent pictures that just came out are amazing. They look like a painting and you’re like, this is a painting, but what does it mean? , you know what I mean? Like hundreds

[00:36:30] Tyler: of thousands and it’s a painting of a grain of sand, right. At arm’s length. Yeah. Of the sky and all those spots are like galaxies.

Yeah. Right. With, and so you’re like, wait, what? Right. So it’s like, oh dude. Yeah. If you just keep zooming in, it just keeps going, bro. It keeps going. It’s too much. Our minds are. And who knows how many habitable planets are like, that’s crazy a grain of salt at arms length. And that’s what that dope, dope picture is.


[00:37:02] Chris: yeah. Yeah. But somehow we think we’re the only ones and all this was for us. And like, I just, I can’t subscribe to that. It’s there’s too much out

[00:37:10] Tyler: there. I mean, at least at least this side of the Milky way, as far as documentary. Oh, deduction of course would maybe subscribe to that. If you’re saying that in the tagline, this side, then we, it’s gotta be a possibility.


[00:37:26] Chris: think about the, uh, aliens somebody’s

[00:37:28] Tyler: out there. That’s better. They, I would love for them to prove it. I’m sure

[00:37:30] Chris: there’s like aliens on Zada Reticuli or somewhere out there. Who’s the doc side media version hypothesizing about the humans here on earth. You know what I mean? It’s gotta be happening somewhere.


[00:37:44] Tyler: it is. That would be funny. Nearly infinite. Exactly. Yeah. This, this whole conversation is happening at, in like elsewhere where Jeremiah is Dockside media and he made secrets of the Sasquatch, bro. And we’ve been running. What if the wrong podcast and just crushing it? You know what I mean? Like all these things have happened and so I love, uh, Uh, Tom Delong’s recent interview on Thete podcast where he like, brings up this thing about how like, time is not linear, man, that like past present and future is all existing right now, just at different frequencies.

And just hearing that is good for my brain, just to be chewing on and rattling. Right. It’s like, oh dude, that’s pretty wild. And is that why, you know, when Chris and I started this documentary production company, not, not even 12 months ago, like last August, right? Middle of August. And we have all like, and I’m like, Chris, man, we can get out five, six docs, dude.

I know we can, Chris, like, ah, dude, we can only do one, maybe two I’m like, God, dude. Like I could feel it though, man. We didn’t have plans for all these docs. We didn’t have all these topics, all these interviews. But for some reason when we started making these I’m like Chris dude, We gotta get this thing picked up for distribution.

It’s gonna get picked up and we need to get picked up by 10 91 pictures because they’re the distribution company that put out the phenomenon and just, we can, it can get it on Netflix and Hulu, blah, blah, blah. And dude, like, I don’t know. I don’t think anybody with, with half a brain would’ve ever bet on that coming true, except except me like Christ.

Don’t even think really like Kristen believed me. Tyler says he didn’t think it would happen. I’m just kidding. But like, so maybe, maybe it already did happen, man. Right? Like maybe that’s why I just felt so strongly to just keep moving forward. Dude, it’ll happen. Keep, make, keep filming these other documentaries.

I know you’re waiting to get picked up for that very first one you made, but don’t stop. Like it’s, they’ll get back to you. And I don’t know. And it just, it felt

[00:40:02] Chris: meant to, and that’s, and that’s where the ying and yang comes in through Tyler and I, because while. , I don’t necessarily always agree with him about like the, uh, willing into existence thing.

But I do subscribe to the, the fact that if you’re not making anything, you’re not working towards that goal. So as long as you’re working towards it, you, you can eventually get there. Um, and so we have that work ethic in each other. We might subscribe to it differently, but that, but it’s the same results, I think.

Um, so yeah, four, four down, we’re filming the fifth one this weekend, you know, going camping ghosts in the graveyard, pure pandemonium. We’re going to a haunted graveyard and pandemonium, Pennsylvania, and abandoned town, uh, lots of activity from what we are hearing. And we’re gonna be camping out there where you have a bunch of people coming along with us, or we’re gonna be doing a bunch of investigation stuff.

It’s gonna be hopefully interesting. It’ll be fun to say the least it will be. And

[00:41:02] Tyler: it’s, and. Man. I would just encourage other people out there listening and watching to be like, God, dude, we’re just regular guys. Like you can do this too, because here’s, what’s up. This will blow your mind even further.

We’re cranking out all these docs, Chris, over here, my man, dude, he’s running like just multiple podcasts. He’s got a new feature film, transient that he’s just casted and getting ready to start filming here in the fall. Um, you know, he does graphic design work. It’s not like Chris, all he does is he sleep and breathe making these documentaries.

Like he it’s, it’s just, it’s really cool, man. When people don’t limit themselves to what they think they can do, uh, I think they would really be surprised, man. I, uh,

[00:41:53] Chris: they just like Jeremiah, you know this, right? Like you, you have a full time job. Right. But yet you come and you do this podcast.

This is, this takes time and effort. How long have you been doing it for.

[00:42:04] Jeremiah: um, I’m think I’m on like eight months. There you go, man.

[00:42:08] Chris: It goes quick too. This time, next year it’ll be a year and a half and we’ll be on doc number 27. And you’ll be,

[00:42:16] Jeremiah: we’ll be back on your

[00:42:16] Chris: show. and it’ll be again, if you just keep going, man, like that’s but do you know how many podcasts read this before?

I don’t know the exact number, but like how many podcasts get like three or four episodes in and then that’s it that’s like the majority of ’em because that’s when it sinks in that like, oh, I have to put effort into this thing. It’s no longer, always fun. Like, it’s gonna be fun, but like, you actually have to try and you gotta keep going and it’s not there’s there’s ups and downs and you gotta push back the downs.

Uh, and the majority of people just don’t do that. So I commend you eight months. It sounds like. But some people will hear that and be like, oh, it’s not even a year, but dude , most people will not make it eight months and I don’t foresee you stopping.

The Grind

So yeah, I,

[00:43:09] Jeremiah: yeah, I was talking with someone the other day about, um, like synchronicities and like how there’s, um, I call it the godly force and it’s like, not like the secret where you just think things and they pop into existence.

I think you can focus on something, but you have to put in the work and then the God force. If, if you were religious, you wanna say, God it’ll help you. Or if you’re not whatever universal force, um, it will help you get through what you are trying to do. So like, for me, for my podcast, I, before I did that, I was doing a video game website and.

I was having such a hard time, like getting people to come to it and writing out the content for it and everything like that, everything just felt like so hard. And then I was like, you know what, I’m gonna scrap that. It’s not working out. So then I was sitting there and I was just like, you know what, I’m gonna make a podcast about like conspiracies and stuff.

Cuz I like always have been into them. Then I just started doing this podcast and just everything just fell in place and fell in line. Like I was reaching out to like my quote unquote dream guests. They were like, yeah, I’ll come on your show. And then, then I run into you guys and you’re from like my hometown.

There’s something there’s gotta be something there to that like is pushing me forward and keeping me going, cuz like you said, it’s a lot of work and people don’t realize, especially for your documentaries and stuff. There’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes. A lot of work put in that people don’t see.

so like for me to bring out episodes, it’s not like I’m just talking and then uploading a thing. Like I gotta edit it. Yeah. I gotta make sure it’s all right. I gotta book. Guess I gotta promote it on social media and stuff like that. And my podcast has grown a lot, but it’s also taken a lot of work and I think that’s why a lot of people just give up on podcasting after certain amount of time cuz work.

[00:45:17] Chris: I, I, I think a lot of people are result focused, meaning if they don’t get the result right away, then they’re they’re turned off. Well, I think what you have to do is enjoy the journey or try to, um, and it’s not always easy for sure. Cause I don’t, I mean, I’ve been doing my podcast for almost six or six and a half years now.

Um, and there’s so many times where I’m like, I gotta stop doing this. I just gotta quit, but I always keep going. And then there’s times where I’m like, ah, I love this. I can’t wait to do the next one. It’s all about the journey, man. Jeremiah is like, I’m out. You guys, I’m done. I’m leaving. he’s getting up.


[00:45:56] Jeremiah: He’s like, know what? He’s come to think of it. You know what? I actually,

[00:46:00] Tyler: it’s not for me. It’s not for me. I change my mind gaming chair. Yeah. I’m gonna start writing an article here. Uh, I hear websites so easier to build nowadays with square space. Do com uh, now,

[00:46:15] Chris: um, no, I had to let the cat scratch the door.

It’s all trouble, but it was kind, it was right on you. I like it. I like it.

[00:46:30] Jeremiah: But yeah, it definitely. I like to give people recognition because like you guys with doing your documentaries and stuff, like you guys put a lot of work and effort into it. It may not seem like that on the surface. Cuz people just watch the documentary and hear you guys on podcast and think it’s just, you know, all fun and games and stuff like that.

But yeah, you guys are

[00:46:53] Chris: actually out put in the words, mean, you know it too, like podcasting when people just listen, you’re like, oh yeah, it’s fun or whatever, but it’s, it’s a skill to like, come on and try and be charismatic and be talkative and keep the conversations going. I remember when I started my podcast six years ago, it was rough.

Had to edit a lot because I couldn’t keep the conversation going. Didn’t know how, I didn’t know how to like, naturally just keep talking. But as you keep doing this stuff, you’re like just can keep the conversation rolling and you don’t even realize it anymore. It’s just like a practice skill, I think.

Uh, so yeah, if you keep at it though, you get better at things. That’s how that’s what practice does. Right? So. And I think like going back to the documentaries, I think that shows, uh, I love conscious contact, full disclosure. That was our first documentary and go SA Gettysburg. I love that one as well. I think there was a step up in production value and I think we’re continuing to do that step up.

Like secrets of the Sasquatch has a lot of, a lot of different minor tweaks and things. We learned that we keep adding to our production values and it’s not like. It’s not like money, just like experience. What if we did this next time? I think that would improve the thing. There was just like a simple thing of like, let’s add a gimble version to the interviews, this movement, slight movement.

It’s more engaging something we learned. We just practice it. Now we do, we implement that into our things. So, uh, now we’re in, in plain site and that’s, I’m like just, you know, just finished an edit on it. I’m like, man, this is, I think this is our best one yet. But I thought about that with the Sasquatch one.

So that’s the goal, right? Where every time we make something it’s our best one yet, because if it’s not, then I feel like we’re not improving and we’re not trying to get better at this stuff. Um, and that’s just how our, my mindset is, is to always keep, you know, working on this stuff, always improve your skills, always try and be a better person.

Um, so yeah, I don’t like staying stagnant. I mean, I think you can tell from doc IMIA by how active we are but yeah. Tyler’s hitch well,

[00:48:58] Tyler: unleash the beast. Tyler. No, I’m just coughing. I’m trying. I’m just trying not to cough, but yeah, no, I think Chris, uh, yeah, no, that was a great example, Chris, like you said, when you have nothing to say, but you just keep the conversation going.

Yep. For like five minutes. Right. Everybody just listened to that, but nobody has any idea what you just said. Yep. But but you did it charismatically. Exactly. Does bro. I’m just, I’m just, I’m just, I’m just teasing you, man. Um, no, it’s great. Chris and I dude, uh, it’s been really good for my life man, to have Chris in my life and to.

to form this company and, uh, man, just the ying and the yang. And it’s cool. I hope people know like, man as much fun, like it, it is work, but man, I’m on the other side where it’s like, oh dude, well, I think a lot of his perception because like, man, as I’m looking around like 70 pounds of a camera equipment, all my back, my shoulder’s falling off getting through airport, walking through airports, going getting rental cards, driving straight to Roswell.

Wake up, uh, you know, driving like four hours down to Roswell. I could wake up two hours later to like fly a drone at sunrise. So we get, you know, footage for, um, to plain sight. The inte like, I don’t know, people would think, yeah, man, dude, that does not sound like a lot of fun. You didn’t really get a lot of sleep.

And my whole time, just like. This is insane that I’m even doing this I’m in Roswell. The sun is rising right now. This is, this is what dreams are made. I’ll catch up on sleep later, like F this dude, this is some once in a lifetime shit. Then, you know, driving straight back, uh, to, to go to Sue Walker’s house to interview Richard Dody, like he met me that it, it was just crazy all these far out relationships that I formed in, in this short, uh, short period of time with these very genuine people.

So, I loved these experiences and like talking to somebody like Richard Doty, whose former air force office is special investigations, counterintelligence officer, like who just was tasked with going out. If people saw UFOs. Probably trying to get them to believe it was government crafting. Yeah.

Saw government craft, getting people to believe they were UFOs. Like, but that, wasn’t just some dude feeling like, oh, he should go do that. No, like that’s like his gen, his boss, whatever the government, like, this is what his job job is. His job description is to go do this and to go to UFO conferences and form these relationships to shape narratives.

Like dude, that, so when I get to meet these people, I’m like, oh dude, I I’m bread item, bushy Taylor. Like even on no sleep. I’m like my horse just don’t don’t don’t don’t don’t this is nasty, dude. This is so, so nasty. and I, uh, so like I hope people can maybe be like, oh dude, I, yeah, like sometimes it is work, but it’s sometimes how you look at it, man.

Like, you know, uh, I, yeah, it’s just sometimes how you look at things for sure. There’s times where say, like, I don’t idea. What’s an example. Say like, I, I go outside and I, uh, say I wanna go throw football with my brother. We’re outside. It’s hot out. I don’t care. We’re throwing toss and we’re having a good time.

I don’t care. It’s hot. My say my eight year old son wants to go out and throw football after like 10 minutes. I’m like, ah, dude, dude, dude, we should go. Like, but what’s different. I’m throwing football in both scenarios. Right? So like when I have those moments, it’s like, oh dude, I should just be thankful I’m out here throwing football.

Like, why what’s it Matt? Like, because the child is eight and I mean, he’s actually really good at catching, but say if your child like drops the ball a lot or something, you know, it can get yeah. Sometimes evoke feelings right. In people cuz we’re human. So I always just try and take like a macro yeah.

10,000 foot view like, oh dude, hold on. Like, why am I getting frustrated right here? Oh, because yeah, whatever, before he hits the ping pong ball, back to me for my serve, he like juggles it a couple times. It’s like, oh, well, bro, you were eight once two. That’s what your knucklehead did. So what does it matter?

Who cares if the ball bounces a few extra times? So, um, I love these just life experiences, man, and growing and meeting these interesting people that give me just even more of an open mind and, and the ability to like, yeah. Be human. And when, yeah, when things aren’t quite going my way to be like, you know what, bro, if the pendulum is swinging back right now, like it will swing back to the good it’s just getting pulled back right now.

Dude, just keep going. And it will all even itself out. And, uh, Chris and I, I know have just had a lot of cool and like. Hard experiences we’ve had through this journey, like just personal life experiences. Um, and so it’s been cool to just go through that, right. And like, just enjoy the process and, and keep going and not giving up.

So I don’t know. That’s a whole lot of win for dude. I’m out here cheering for you, man. Whoever’s out there trying to do something that fires them up, bro. Do I wouldn’t give two craps about what anybody else thinks like yo, if, if it really makes you like happy, like legit, like it’s just, it’s not even work.

This is just fun researching this topic or doing this task or hobby, dude. Just go do it, man. Don’t don’t care what anybody else thinks. Cuz the world’s so big. There’s other people you might not see them, but dude, they think and love the same stuff you do. So go do it, man. You’ll find an audience. Yeah,

Stay Motivated

[00:55:02] Jeremiah: there’s a, um, Joe Rogan motivational speech, you can find on YouTube, if you just hit like Joe Rogan, motivation or whatever.

And he says in there, like, yeah, a lot of people’s lives is pretty shitty. Like you go to a job you don’t really want or any like that. He’s like, just find that one thing you’re passionate about. Even if you can only devote 10 minutes of it, of your day to it, to just dump 10 minutes into it every day and, and build on it.

That’s kind of where you’re coming from is. You know, find your passion and it becomes a labor of love. So yeah. Podcast is work, but, uh, I love doing it. I love talking to people like you guys and all the other guests I’ve had on. And so, yeah, it’s a lot of work, but at the same time I love doing it and I love producing it.

I like that people can listen to it and, uh, getting feedback from people that are like, oh, I listen to every episode. That’s, that’s awesome. Right. Really gave me a lot to think about. And it’s just like, yeah. Makes it all worth it. Yeah.

[00:56:07] Tyler: Dude, like, even if it’s one, like it’s crazy, you legitimately changed the trajectory of one person’s life.

Like that’s powerful, man. That’s like, it should not be overlooked or discounted man. So, um, and I love like, I bet if you go back to episode one dude from then till now, the way you run it, how. How good. It sounds how good it looks, all these different things, how you interact with the guests, dude. I bet like you should be proud of the improvement and the only way you get better is by doing it, like, you know, you didn’t watch online, how to podcast videos necessarily for the past eight months.

Like, no, you went out and made podcasts for the past eight months and I’ll be darn if this isn’t a much, you know, like just a polished, uh, production man. And I love what you’re doing and, uh, it’s just good. It’s cool, man. So to each the throne, whatever their journey is, man, like I think you would surprise yourself if, if you.

Move your feet in that direction and commit whatever little bit of time you can to it. Um, like you’re, you’re guaranteed to get better. It’s like gravity it’s it is just, it’s a principle dude. I don’t care whether you believe in practice or not like do the, it, it will happen. Like if you do something again and again, it becomes muscle memory, dude, like literal muscle memory, like think about the first time you drove your car and had to get onto the highway and how this massive 2000 pound death trap, like, dude, that like, this is crazy.

How do I keep this car straight? How do I get over? And now dude, we smoke in six. You know what I mean? Like changing songs, we’re talk telling the kid, yo yo get, you know, stop fighting, whatever. And it’s like, oh dude, it’s all muscle memory, man. Like we just, you can not even sometimes think about what you’re doing.

You’re like, yeah, Y your mind, your body muscle memory. It just takes over dude. You’re you’re hopping on that highway merger. No problem. My brains are weird, right? It’s crazy. Yeah. That’s crazy. And you’re automatically, yeah. As you’re like, yep. Handing your kid, right? Like the, the jelly, the peanut butter and jelly sandwich, like you’re checking the side me, like you’re going through all these things.

Like you’re not consciously thinking about it, but you’re doing all those, like things to ensure the safety, but you would’ve never thought you could ever in a million years get there. If you would’ve taken a polygraph when you were 16 years old and first started

[00:58:40] Chris: and everybody’s different. It’s just really weird.

Like my wife is autistic. So the way she thinks is so much different than most people and the way her brain compartmentalizes and see these details that I don’t, or don’t infer from them, like the way she infers things, it’s just, it’s weird. Like it’s just so different. Um, and everybody’s like that. So yeah, man, our brains are just crazy.

[00:59:07] Jeremiah: Yeah. How many times have you driven home from somewhere and you get home and you’re like, how the hell did I get home? Yeah, because you forget about the drive.

[00:59:15] Chris: Yeah. Yeah, man. There’s so much, I don’t remember about my life when I was a kid, all that stuff. Like all those experiences. So many days where it’s like, I don’t remember them, but they were, they happen

[00:59:31] Tyler: oh yeah.

You’ll have core memories. Yeah. Of like innocuous thing, like something you’re like, why, why is that event image? Small interaction painted in my mind. Yeah. Why, why can I VI like that, that I know there was more dope stuff like scoring a touchdown or like something that, you know, like just cooler stuff that my, that I should remember and have a mental imagery of, and there’s.

Yeah, it’s crazy. You’ll have these, these, uh, core memories of like stuff that seems completely banal. Yeah. Uneventful. Yeah. Banal. Yeah.

[01:00:09] Jeremiah: It’s weird, man. Yeah. Like, like for me personally, I, um, I don’t like conflict myself. So like if I get in a fight with someone, like that’ll just play in my brain for like ever and like, it’s like, why can’t I just drop it or forget about it, but my brain’s just like holding

[01:00:29] Chris: onto it.

Yeah. And, and some of these, I mean, a lot of things we do, I feel like are, um, because of the repetition. So like that you were talking about like the muscle memory of driving, but that also works in, uh, the way we respond to emotional things. The way we try to protect ourselves from conflict. I avoid conflict also.

Uh, you know, something I work on with my therapist now, but it’s like so obvious to me now. Like all these things, it just kind of like ran away because I was too whatever, afraid to face them or whatever it is. But we do that all with so many things in our lives. So yeah. I don’t know. We got way off track from Sasquatch, but

[01:01:10] Tyler: Barry pH, but that explains why your, your, uh, emails have been getting really nasty here recently and very aggressive.

You’ve been emboldened to just speak your mind.

[01:01:21] Jeremiah: I’m

[01:01:21] Tyler: unleashed . I’m kidding, dude. Chris is not legit, dude. I, I couldn’t imagine, uh, like Dockside media or doing this with anybody else, man. It’s just, it, it’s a cool, uh, it’s just a cool process where for sure, like the sum of both of our skill sets, just make the end end product infinitely better.

They just feel definitely all both of us can do kind of all of the, the tasks that we’re both, that. Whatever we just have, we’re both like well versed in, uh, but we all, we both have different strengths and so it’s just awesome. Um, yeah, it’s just awesome to be able to plate our skill sets and dude, and just trust in the pro like, oh dude, I just trust dude.

I know Chris knows what he’s doing. Right. And sometimes I’ll give him notes and stuff and he will, he can make some changes. And some like, if the change isn’t, it’s like, oh dude, he knows. Yeah. I, I understand, like he knows what’s best. Right. Um, and, uh, dude, I don’t know. It’s just, it’s sick, dude. It’s sick.

So just one more plug for secrets of the Sasquatch man, all this passion, uh, and just love for life and curiosity and, and like fascination cetera. I think you find a lot of that. In secrets of the Sasquatch. And hopefully you leave with stuff like, even just, if it’s a little seed of, um, like one of the things that Sue Walker mentions is that the Sasquatch are like a more civilized peoples or species then humans, because they take care of all of their beings.

Right? All their brothers, all the and sisters. Um, and as far as like food, water, shelter, medicine, these types of thing, and it’s like, oh dude, it’s just cool for me to get that perspective shift. Like, oh dude, that if we are me measuring civilizations, how dope they are based on how well they take care of everybody, eh, yeah.

I gotta say. Man, the squirrels might even have us beat. Yep. I, I need to look into the squirrel population more. That’s true. How, how good. But it’s just like, oh dude. Yeah. We could probably be doing a better job. And so like, I like that the, our documentaries offer stuff like that, where it’s like, oh dude, whatever you take from this.

I don’t know. I think there’s some nuggets of new information and value and just stuff. Uh, it’s like good food for thought. Um, however you interpret it. I think it allows you to maybe live your life a little bit more fully or, uh, like, I don’t know, enjoy it more. Just have fun with it, man. Experience it more.


[01:04:09] Chris: Yep.


[01:04:10] Jeremiah: So in wrapping it all up, uh, I know you guys have to have some ideas floating around your head. What’s uh, what’s. ideas for our next project. I know you got the, uh, UFO one coming, but beyond

[01:04:25] Chris: that. Yeah. yeah, we got in plain sight, the intelligence community and UFOs. That’s the UFO one then like, uh, we said earlier we are filming, uh, another supernatural ghost documentary called, uh, ghosts in the graveyard, pure pandemonium.

Uh, we already started filming some of that and we’re gonna be doing a camp out this weekend. So I’m looking forward to that. But then we have a bunch of ideas for down the line. Uh, past life regression is one of the topics we want to explore, possibly experience, um, or try to experience that remote viewing is a topic that’s also really interesting to us and to the government.

So if the government’s interested in it and willing to spend millions and millions of dollars looking into it, there’s probably something. Interesting there. So we want to explore that topic. Um, we talked about like, uh, maybe doing something with, uh, you know, iowaska or these, uh, transformative medicinal herbs, uh, cuz that’s just generally an interesting topic for Tyler and I on a personal level.

Um, but we have a bunch of ideas we’re kicking around, but those are the ones I think that we’re gonna be doing in, in the, you know, soon near future, near future. Yeah.

[01:05:40] Tyler: Yeah. And plain sight, the intelligence community FOS will be out. Yep. Like mid fall, early, mid fall. Yeah. And then goes to the graveyard, pure pandemonium.

I mean yeah. After this camp out, you know, I already went and interviewed like an author and as historian, uh, on this, um, this ghost town of pandemonium and. Man, all like the interesting people who may met some like crazy ends to their lives there. And, um, but so Chris, yeah. I mean, we’ll have all the footage for that, like in, in a week or two.

Uh, so Chris will start editing that that’ll be out probably. Yeah. Chris. Yeah. You’ll get going on that. I saw your eyebrows. I’m shooting a feature film too. Cranking on that then. And wow. I know bud, but we gotta get this done before the . Nah, nah, we can talk about that off air seriously though. You need it done before the feature and uh, but then, so yeah, as soon as we get that film then yep.

These other topics, they remote viewing and past slave progression as Chris is working on his feature film transient, which you, you can still donate to. If you go to trans, uh, make transient, make, make Yeah. Uh that’s T R a N S I E. N T I think that’s the first time I repel that allowed good.

Yeah. Nice job. That’s right. Thanks dog. Um, but yeah, and dude, so I’ll just start reaching out to all these interesting people that have had these, these cool, like, uh, reincarnation and past life regressions. Yeah. Dude, who like, I don’t know. I love this idea of like the universe or creator, whatever, like wanting to like being all knowledgeable or something, but not like needing to experience it all.

So breaking itself into all these different pieces, not knowing it’s the creator and experiencing it to teach. I don’t know. We’re

[01:07:37] Chris: all made of the same stuff, right? Like all star stuff. So just,

[01:07:41] Tyler: yeah. We’re all star as made. Right. We, we, our bodies just thinking of like, I love thinking about this crazy stuff.

The energy

[01:07:47] Chris: gets trans Ooh, man. You know, transferred in some way. So there’s something there to it. I think.

[01:07:54] Jeremiah: yeah, we could all be just like a piece of God experiencing planet earth. Yeah,

[01:07:59] Tyler: exactly. And that’s what, yeah. Like, I, I, I keep my mind open to all those different avenues because like, until I’m like proven, it’s proven for sure that it’s not that, um, dude, like, who am I to say?

Oh, well that, that can’t be a possibility, dude. I think some of these other things could maybe be at, but it can’t be that it’s like, oh no dude. Like I, yeah. I just try and be respectful of everybody and open minded. It’s like, oh dude, I, I don’t know at this time, but I don’t think the science community right.

Knows or whatever it is. So like until we have definitive answers. Yeah. It could be. Yeah,

[01:08:36] Jeremiah: definitely. Yeah, for sure. And um, if you end up doing that iowaska documentary, let me know. I might be able to hook you up with that lady

[01:08:47] Chris: I interviewed. Yeah. Yeah. That

[01:08:49] Tyler: would be cool. no doubt, dude. I think a spirit question could be, cause that true man.

And the experience you relayed, uh pre-recording about that, that lady, uh, just super interesting. Super, really, really

[01:09:03] Chris: fascinating. And I wanna say Jeremiah, uh, just thanks for having us on again, dude. Um, love coming on here. Wanna come back again? Maybe when, uh, in plain sight comes out. Talk about some more alien stuff.

[01:09:17] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, for sure. That’s my favorite. Yeah.

[01:09:19] Tyler: ah, dude, we’ll send you a pre screener, you know bro. You know, we’re good for it. We’ll keep, we’ll keep sending you the links if you keep having us on for sure, dude, we, we love this man. Love what you’re doing.

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Soul Sisters: Ghost Investigations

Soul Sisters: Ghost Investigations

Soul Sisters: Ghost Investigations

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[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if their wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything. Your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow terrestrials and welcome back. We have a great episode. Up ahead. This episode was actually selected by you, the audience. I did a poll and this episode is the winner. I’ll do more polls in the future. This is the first, uh, attempt. So I think, uh, we’re all gonna enjoy it regardless, cuz I had a great conversation with Chris Sumner and she runs soul sisters, a uh, paranormal and ghost investigation group and she has a doctorate and she also goes about ghost investigations in a non dramatized way.

So everything that she does, she sets up cameras, sensors, everything like that, uh, records data around the area, making sure that there’s no chance of something being picked up. That is actually something else. So a lot of her findings are truly unexplained. So we’re gonna get to talking to her about that, but first, if you like the show and you like the content, if you could subscribe or follow that way, whenever a new episode drops you’ll know right away, it’ll get downloaded.

You’ll be able to enjoy all the great content. I have a lot of great content coming out. So definitely subscribe. Also, if you can rate and review the show, be highly appreciated. Just helps out with the show. Let me know that you’re liking it. So let’s get with Chris Sumner and get a little spooky and remember question everything.


Hello, and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast, I’m your host, Jeremiah. And I’m joined today by Christie from the soul sisters paranormal podcast, or she has a website too that has videos and everything. And, uh, she and her sister set out on. Ghost investigations. I don’t really like saying ghost hunts, cuz it just sounds funny or like cheesy, you know, so ghost investigations and paranormal investigations.

So I’ll introduce her now. Hello.

[00:02:43] Kris: Hi Jeremiah. How you doing tonight?

[00:02:45] Jeremiah: Good. How are you?

[00:02:46] Kris: I’m fantastic. Thank you for having me.

Yes. Thanks for coming on. And speaking with us, I’m sure you got a lot of stories to tell us and talk about . Oh yeah, absolutely. And I looked into some of your stuff, but my audience obviously might not know.

So, um, if I ask something it’s for the good of everybody,

absolutely. Let’s let’s do this. So

[00:03:10] Jeremiah: I wanted to start with cuz it’s something that I don’t hear a lot of in the paranormal sector, but I think you touched on it a few times and uh, that’s like children, ghosts and children spirits and. Have you encountered any and what is your take on, on the whole thing with like kids?

Cuz my brother, he says the only thing that really scares him is like hearing little kids in horror movies or kids singing and uh, so they definitely add like an extra element to the whole thing. And uh, so I just wanted to get your take on, you know, children, ghost children’s spirits and what, uh, what you think it all entails.

[00:03:54] Kris: absolutely. So, um, to, to answer the first question, yes, we have encountered, uh, the spirit of children. Um, a and, and for me, when we go into these investigations, a again, soul sister’s paranormal is made up of myself and primarily my twin sister, but our younger sister, and then some female family, friends join us as well.

So we’re an all female group. And I think that an all female group, um, tends to lead toward a little bit more empathy. I’m not gonna say that we’re empathic per se, but more empathy. And I think that allows children’s spirits to be more comfortable, um, a, around an all female team, probably more so than they would an all male team or a co-ed team.

Um, so we have encountered children’s spirits. One that really sticks out is when we were investigating, uh, the exchange hotel in Gordonsville, Virginia. Now this is a, uh, it was. Before the civil war as a hotel, a three story hotel, um, because it sits right on a railroad junction there in Gordonsville, uh, during the civil war, it was recommissioned into a civil war hospital that saw both, um, Confederate and union soldiers.

And there’s about 700 verified deaths during that conflict that happened in that hospital. So it’s a very active location, but there’s also the reports of a child named Jeremiah that inhabits that, uh, that hotel. So when we went there it’s was, it’s not you, it’s not, it’s not you. No, . Um, so when we went to that investigation, there were five females there.

And, um, myself and my friend, Kim, uh, we were the only two in the house at the time. The rest were in the summer kitchen, which is another building on the property. She and I were the only two people in, in the actual hotel portion. And so we tried to make contact with, with little Jeremiah. We sat in a hallway about, we were probably about 10 feet away from each other.

Facing each other and we had our legs, you know, pointing outward. We had a glow in the dark ball and we both had K two meters in front of us. I said, you know, Jeremiah, if you’re here, will you light up the lights in front of me? And I’ll roll this ball down to Kim. My lights lit up.

They indicated that some energy was acting on it. And so I rolled the ball down to Kim and Kim asked the same question. She said, now, if you’re in front of me, Light up the lights in front of me, use your energy and I’ll roll the ball back to Christie. And so it did. So he did that and we, we went back and forth with this game for probably about 15 or 20 minutes.

Just adjacent to that hallway was a bedroom where it was set up to look like an old time hotel. We had a voice recorder on the bed, in that room. Later on during the night we captured a child’s voice saying, hi, this is my bed, which does two things. One, it shows that there’s a level of intelligence because I think he was speaking to the voice recorder saying, Hey, why are you on my bed?

This is my bed. And two, it validated that there was a child spirit there because we obviously have no children on the team. And so that was a very interesting, um, one interaction and then two, uh, a voice, uh, a recorder that we caught on the, a recording that we caught on the voice recorder. Um, and so for me, When we do, when we do these investigations, we go in with the premise really on three theories, right?

That’s that spirits are here for, for three reasons. One, they have unfinished business. Um, there’s something that has to be fulfilled before they can ascend to what’s ever next. The second is fear of retribution, which I think this is why we see a lot of spirits in jails and prisons, because they’re afraid of what’s gonna happen next, based on the life that they lived on earth.

And the third is they don’t understand how to get to the next realm. And I think that’s why we see children a lot. Um, they, they may or may not know that they’re actually dead, but either way they can’t find that light or they can’t find the way to get to the next realm. And I think that’s why they’re there.

We have, um, you know, the exchange hotel was a great example of a child spirit. Also communicated one in, uh, ha bar dam, which is located in Tennessee. Had several instances where we communicated with children.

[00:08:02] Jeremiah: Yeah. I always wondered. what that all was all about. Like, cuz like I said, when I look into paranormal stuff and I haven’t been doing it like all that long, but a lot of times you just hear about like the older people, like spirits and ghosts and uh, not too much focus on like the kid aspect.

So mm-hmm I wanted to get your take on that whole thing. And then I saw you had a video on your website where you went to an elementary.

[00:08:31] Kris: mm-hmm yeah, yeah. Post town elementary and post town, Ohio. Um, that was interesting. Uh, you know, that, um, a lot of the theories about why that elementary school is haunted is really based on one native American stories and then two, uh, railroad accidents, train accidents that happened in close proximity to, uh, to that elementary school really before the school was actually, um, built, there was a couple of train accidents.

But, we did have a lot of activity in that location. Honestly, I don’t feel that anything that we were communicating with that night was a child spirit. We captured several EVPs that were extreme. Interesting EVPs, um, that seemed to in, uh, indicate an intelligent response. None of them were children’s spirits.

Um, we think one was maybe a teenage girl, uh, and, and then the others were mostly what we feel were male, um, uh, like men. Um, those were a couple of the EVPs that we captured as well. So while it was an interesting experience, um, the, the, the indications that we got was there wasn’t really a lot of children activity, at least on the night that we investigated.

Um, but there was definitely something going on in that, uh, that elementary school.

[00:09:48] Jeremiah: Yeah. When, uh, I was watching it till one part kind of freaked me out, cuz I wasn’t. I think I went to do something else cuz I was like making dinner or something and I look, and there’s like a painting of some kid that’s like this and I was like, oh my gosh.

Yeah. And I thought that was like something you caught on film. And then I realized it was just a painting.

[00:10:11] Kris: Yeah. This little statue thing that he’s got stuck in a corner. Um, and the weird thing is, is it’s it’s in this corner where you, when you turn left, like it’s right there. So that when we were doing our walkthrough, um, during the day it scared the be Jesus outta me.

Um, you know, I actually said a couple of choice words because of it was sitting there. Um, but yeah, it, uh, it’s definitely one of those things. It’s like, why is this? Even here? It sits out right, right outside the doll room.

[00:10:38] Jeremiah: Yeah. I just, uh, I looked over and I was like, oh my gosh, because it looks creepy. So

[00:10:44] Kris: it it’s very creepy in the day and more, especially in the night.

And then

[00:10:49] Jeremiah: I saw, I forget who was standing next to it, but I was like, it’s right next to you. But then I realized it was just a painting

[00:10:58] Kris: yeah. So post down is a very interesting location.

[00:11:02] Jeremiah: And then, um, I interviewed Jess king, uh, I don’t know if you know her, but she, um, she’s a medium and she went to a elementary school in Alabama and they got a lot of like negative vibes from it.

And, um, like they said, like a lot of bad stuff was going on there. Um, cuz it was like, I guess like a church and then a school. And I don’t know, I have deep history, so it seems like a lot of places that have a lot of history tend to have, you know, ghost activity.

[00:11:38] Kris: Mm-hmm . Yeah. And that, and that’s one of the really, that’s one of the things that we love about what we do, um, is because we get to go to these historical locations, we get to have that very tactile experience with these locations that a lot of people don’t really get the opportunity to enjoy.

Um, you know, not many people can say they’ve stayed in, you know, the SKAs murder house or the Lindsay Borden house, or the St. Augustine lighthouse, but we get to actually do that. And then what we wanna do is really tell that historical narrative to our audience. Uh, that’s why, if you watch any of our videos, you know, the first three to five minutes is really a deep dive into the, his, into the history.

And then we couple that with the paranormal activity that we find in those locations, um, so to your point, history to us is extremely important and really the catalyst as to why we do this.

[00:12:24] Jeremiah: Yeah. So like, um, you have like some prisons and stuff on there. And I wanted to talk about that too, because my fiance works for jail and she’s had some ghost experiences and it’s not even.

And abandoned jail. It’s still filled with prisoners. So mm-hmm but they seem to be, you know, a hotbed too, cuz you have inmates who kill themselves or get killed by another inmate or uh, whatever reason. So mm-hmm uh, what kind of places prison wise have you been. uh, what have you experienced?

[00:13:00] Kris: Well, coincidentally enough, I’m currently sitting in the historic Scott county jail in Huntsville, Tennessee.

Um, so this is a jail that was built in 1904. It was an operation as a jail until 2008. And then it said vacant until last year when my business partner Miranda young from goes bike explorations. She and I formed a company called history highways and Hauns, and we opened a museum as well as a paranormal research center inside this jail.

And so to your point, when we first opened, uh, last year in September of 2021, um, we. We’re getting reports from deputies that used to work here saying, you know, when I worked in the jail, when there was inmates here, when I worked there, um, we would hear footsteps when all the inmates were in their cells.

Uh, the elevator would start running up and down on its own when nobody was there. Um, we had a woman who was in dispatch. She got on the elevator one night by herself and something coughed in her ear and she never rode the elevator again. So. Jails and prisons are definitely I, in my mind, a hotbed for paranormal activity, simply because to your point, there is a lot of violence.

There is suicides, right? There is natural deaths, especially in a jail like this one, which has this long history spanning almost 120 years. Um, there were natural deaths. Um, we had one of our sheriffs in 1925. He was actually shot and killed right here in the front door. It’s still an unsolved murder.

We do believe his spirit is here inside the jail. For us, it on a routine basis, I mean, daily, we will hear doors slamming upstairs footsteps. Um, whistling seems to be an interesting phenomena that we’ve really started to capture here. Um, you know, we’ll just be sitting here at the desk working and something will whistle behind us, even though we’re the only people here.

And, um, so you know, it, it, there is, there is a lot of just trauma and violence and. It’s it’s, it’s not really a happy place. Most people that are in the jail or prison, aren’t there because they’re, they’re in a happy state in their life. Um, so you have all of that energy. And for me, I really believe it just permeates into the walls.

We have a lot of residuals here. At night you’ll hear footsteps, just pacing upstairs on the third floor, which was maximum security. Their residual to us because we’ll be standing there and you’ll hear them and we’ll say, hello, hello. Is anybody there? And they just keep on walking.

Like they don’t even hear us. Um, but then we have intelligence. Um, we will, uh, be upstairs asking questions and, uh, we’ll get intelligent responses upstairs on the second and the third floor as well. So for me, I love jails. I love prisons. Um, they’re probably, to me the best investigations that we’ve gone on.

[00:15:43] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, for sure. And my fiance tells me stories too. Like she’ll be walking down a. I don’t know what you call a corridor, I guess. And mm-hmm, , she’d hear a door slam shut, and there’s no one there and , uh, voices talking to her, but there’s no one wherever she’s located at the time. And mm-hmm, uh, like, so she, yeah, she tells me all about her jail ghost experience.

So , I Def there’s definitely something going on. And I think a lot of ghosts, like you said, are, um, when they have like a trauma based death, it seems like they seem to hang around a lot more then if they go peacefully. So mm-hmm yeah. She, she’s always talking about, uh, inmates on suicide watch and all that stuff.

And then of course, on tough her jail, isn’t that bad as far as like inmate on inmate violence, but mm-hmm, , there’s obviously prisons where, you know, people get killed and so yeah, definitely. Um, would breed that type of environment.

[00:16:52] Kris: Yeah. And to your point, I really, I, I think it does, like I said, um, it’s almost like it, it just kind of permeates, um, you know, there’s like certain things that have happened at least at least here in this jail, and I’m sure in other jails across the country, um, we’ve had the suicides, we’ve had people that self harm, right.

That, uh, that wanna just go out for, to try to get out for a day to go to the hospital. Um, here there was inmate violence, um, simply because they had no exercise yard or any outside exposure, um, until 1996, when an outside wreck yard, a small one was, was, um, put out constructed in the back. Um, but up until that time, you know, 24 hours a day they’re jail cell was their environment.

And so it, to me, you know, jails and prisons to your point are really just those hotbed of paranormal activity. Simply for that reason. You know, we’ve investigated brushing mountain state penitentiary, which is about 45 minutes from here, um, in Petros, Tennessee, we’ve been there a couple of times, and that’s a great place to investigate because we have both residual and intelligent hauntings there.

We captured footsteps door slamming. At the same time we were capturing voices that were telling us, Hey, I’m here or I’m behind you, or I warned you, those sort of things. We’ve captured full bodied apparitions, um, on, on camera and on, uh, and on video. So there’s a lot of things that happen in jails and prisons.

And like I said to me, it it’s all fascinating.

[00:18:21] Jeremiah: So when you go out with your team, um, is it just you and your sisters, or do you have other people that go with.

[00:18:30] Kris: Well, we started in 2013 as a team of five. So myself, my twin sister, our younger sister, and two female family friends. And, um, our first couple of years, we were that team of five, everywhere that we went, you know, there were the five of us that would go really just then, you know, through a series of life events and COVID and all of that.

Um, we, it, it’s just easier travel and logistic wise to allow Jenny my twin, um, Jenny and I to really do the, the primary investigations for the team. Now, the others will join when they can. Um, but you know, one got a new job and moved to Colorado. One had a grandbaby. So it’s just one of those things that life just kind of plays a role in this as well.

So primarily for the last two years it’s been Jenny and myself.

[00:19:15] Jeremiah: So when you go out to do these investigations, what kind of like tools and equipment and stuff do you use? Cuz people might not people listening might not know like all the different. Terminology and all the equipment. So what kind of stuff do you guys use to, I’ve heard of like dowsing rods, I think is one mm-hmm and some other stuff.

So just interesting to hear what people use .

[00:19:42] Kris: Sure, absolutely. So the first thing for us, when we go in an investigation, we go in with a mindset of actually trying to de. The location first. And by that, I mean, we go in for a day tour before our investigation and we’ll look at all of the things that environmentally we feel could influence the investigation.

So we look for streetlights, we look for traffic patterns for airline patterns, trains nearby dogs, nearby kid nearby, anything like that, that during our investigation, if we hear those things, we can say, okay, we think it’s this rather than something paranormal. So we, the, from the very get go, we go in with a scientific mindset of really trying to disprove things first.

Um, and then we also take notes on where we want to leave stationary equipment when we do the nighttime investigation. So when we go in and do the nighttime invest. we set up, uh, static, uh, or stationary voice recorders as well as stationary night vision video cameras. The reason we do that is because we want eyes and ears on as much of the location as we can.

So even if we’re not in a particular room or in a particular hallway, we have night vision, video cameras and voice recorders recording in those hallways or rooms. Um, and so then we set all of that up. We all have voice recorders on us as well. We have body cameras, um, night vision, body cameras that really give us a timestamp of where everybody is during the investigation.

So if, say an, uh, we capture a noise in a hallway at 10 o’clock at night, I will go back and cross reference where everybody is based on those body cameras and make sure it’s not one of us causing that noise or that anomaly. So we have that. Um, we, then we have pieces of equipment that we called our, our handheld equipment that will take with us.

the first thing we have are what we call K two meters. And these were essentially created for electricians to find electrical outlets or electrical circuits in a room. Um, and basically they’re radio or, um, uh, electronic frequency meters. Um, uh, so they measure electromagnetic energy. And so the idea is that if you believe that spirits are made up of energy, that excuse.

That if there’s no energy or power in a location, yet something acts upon these pieces of equipment. Then that’s something that we can say, okay, there may be a spirit acting on that. Um, so we have K2 meters that we take with us. Um, we have another device called a REM pod, which is a proximity meter as well.

It has an alarm system. It also me measures temperature variations. So again, the idea being, if a spirit approaches it or energy approaches it, it will alarm and indicate that something is acting on it. Um, we have. Um, a camera called an SLS camera and generally speaking, it is a modified camera that has an algorithm on it.

That when you sweep it around a room, it looks like if it perceives a human in the room, it puts it as a stick figure on the screen. Um, so the idea being that even if nothing is in the room, if the camera perceives a human in the room or a spirit in the room, it will display it as a stick figure on the screen.

Uh, we have a device called a spirit box, which generally speaking is an am MFM radio. That’s been modified to very quickly sweep through frequencies. When you turn it on and, and start the sweep, what we call the sweep rate, it sounds like as it’s running through these frequencies, the idea is that spirits can use the white noise to communicate with us.

Essentially speaking through the static and. We use that in, let’s see, um, flashlights, we use flashlights for various experiments. Um, and then we also pride ourselves on taking what we call trigger items. So these are items that we talk about and we take with us and in some cases create, um, to take into a locations, to get a spirit, to communicate with us.

So for example, when we go into a jail or a prison, We’ll take things like cigarettes, um, whiskey, uh, water, something like that, again, to say, you know, these are for you, we’re gonna leave them for you. Will you communicate with us because of that? Um, like for example, when we went into, uh, West Virginia state penitentiary, there was an inmate there, very bad guy.

His name was red Snyder. He was the leader of the Arian brotherhood. Um, just, he was in there for murder. He was in solitary confinement and his two vices in life were tobacco and watching days of our lives. So every day they’d wheel a television in, they’d let him watch days of our lives and then they’d wheel a television away.

So he actually ended up getting killed in prison. And I think 1993 is when he was killed. Anyway. So, what we did is we downloaded an episode of days of our lives on our laptop, took it in into his cell and said, okay, this is for you. We’re gonna leave it run and you watch it and we’ll be back later. So when we came back, um, the, the episode had ended and the battery on the laptop had drained and we walked in and we said, did you see what you, what we left for you?

And he said, yes, we got over a voice saying, yes. Um, so we, we take trigger items like that as well. And, um, so that really kind of rounds out some of the equipment that we have.

[00:24:55] Jeremiah: Yeah. And I was gonna ask about the whole, um, I think it’s called EVP mm-hmm is that what it is? Yeah. Um, and like you said, you trapped voices and stuff like that on video.

And, um, yeah, I first heard about that. There was a movie back in the, I don’t know, nineties, early two thousands. And, um, it was. They were still using VHS tapes cuz right. They were still a thing. And uh, it was all about the EVP phenomenon. So you have captured, um, like voices on film or audio equipment.

[00:25:34] Kris: Oh yeah, absolutely.

So an EVP stands for electronic voice phenomena and essentially what that is. It’s it’s CA the capturing of a voice or a disembodied voice, um, on a piece of electronic equipment. And in some of these cases, you can hear them in the moment and some, and some, we don’t hear in the moment, but when we go back and we listen to our voice recorders, we found that we’ve captured something.

Um, for example, my sister and I, uh, about three, no about four weeks ago, we investigated the USS North Carolina in, uh, in North Carolina. It’s a battleship. We were rec obviously recording. As we’re walking through this bulkhead, um, I step over. and I turn around and I say, Hey, we’re going to look at Jenny.

I say, we’re gonna go in here. So I turn to the left. She’s stepping over the bulkhead, we captured a man’s voice saying, watch your arm. Her and I, the only two people on the entire ship. Yet we captured this male voice saying, watch your arm. Now we didn’t hear it in the moment. But when I went back, when I was going through and listening to that audio, it’s clearly a male’s voice.

Um, another example would be when we investigated the grand old lady hotel, which is located in BSSO North Carolina. Now this is a three story hotel. It was built in 1905 as part of the rare race railroad. and it’s a grand hotel. Like I said, it’s got three stories. It’s got a hundred guest rooms, a big ballroom, um, a great big kitchen.

Uh, it it’s just a really ornate hotel. And so when we were there, we were there for an entire weekend and we had the complete run of the hotel. We were the only people on the property for that weekend. And so it was myself, my twin sister, Jenny and Miranda from ghost biker explorations. And so on Saturday night, we decided to sleep in the, a room on the third floor, which was a suite that essentially had two rooms, right.

There was an interior room and an exterior room and only the exterior room had a door into the hallway. So we had the door closed and we had a, a night vision video camera on the outside of the door and a night vision video camera on the inside of the door. So you see Miranda in that, that room. You see her get into bed and you hear us say goodnight.

And about 15 minutes later, a voice outside the door, a male’s voice says, please don’t. It’s extremely loud and Miranda said, did y’all hear that? I said, yes. She said, what did that sound like? There’s a man outside our door. That’s what I thought too. Um, so that’s an example of us hearing it in the moment and we actually captured it on everything that was recording in that area.

Um, but there was nobody there cuz you can see obviously from the two cameras that nothing approaches that door. And we had complete control of that hotel. Like I said, there was nobody else on the property that night.

[00:28:24] Jeremiah: Yeah. I like how you guys go about it in like, uh, I don’t wanna say scientific way, but like you try to go about it without making it like fabricated or like, you know, how you see on the TV shows like they see something or they don’t even see anything.

And they’re like, oh my gosh. And they run away and you’re like, I didn’t even see anything. Why are you running? And but I like how you guys come at it. Like we wanna. Make sure this is correct. And that mm-hmm, , uh, what we’re experiencing is real and not, you know, something to boost, you know, our ratings or to like, you know what I’m saying?

So mm-hmm, I like how you guys do that.

[00:29:09] Kris: Well, I, I, Jeremiah, I appreciate you saying that. Uh, and that’s really one of the things that, you know, when we started doing this, uh, in 2013, we really wanted to try to the best of our ability to elevate paranormal investigations into a more professional realm. Um, you know, we’re still obviously seen as a subculture, but we wanted to say, okay, we’re gonna be very upfront with what we do and how we do it.

And we do take a scientific approach because, you know, we feel that we want to really make sure that the conversation about paranormal investigations is one that is more scientific, right? Not just this, you know, oh, I feel something or it’s a cold spot because that doesn’t relate to an audience, right.

An audience can’t feel a cold spot, but. If I say, I feel a cold spot and I’m getting an EVP and I’m getting indications that there’s energy here. That’s a little bit different, right? That that’s something that we can translate to our audience. And I understand that for television, there does have to be a sense of sensationalism, right?

Those TV shows, they ha their entire reason for being is to build an audience. But for us, we want to, to show that this is what we feel a real investigation is. It’s, it’s not this instantaneous gratification, right. We’re sitting in a location for sometimes 24 to 48 hours. And we’re literally just talking to the air, trying to get some type of a response.

Um, And, and another thing that we don’t do is we don’t monetize, uh, have people ask why we don’t monetize our YouTube channel. And it’s for that very reason, right? I don’t want somebody to come back and say, well, you’re just presenting this, this, you know, this thing. Um, or these voices, you’re making it up to get more hits, to get more money.

And we don’t do that. Right. We don’t monetize for that very reason. I don’t wanna give the appearance that we’re putting this out there just to get hits or just to get subscribers or money. Um, what we do is really, as I said before, want to highlight these historical locations for preservation purposes and then say, okay, while we were there in this very interesting historical location, we captured these things that we couldn’t explain in the moment.

[00:31:18] Jeremiah: Yeah. I like that. I like that approach. And. That’s what I try to, well, I know my show covers various topics, but I try to come at it. Like I’m not preaching to anybody. I’m not trying to tell you what to believe. I just want my guest to present what they know. And then it’s up to the person listening to decide, you know, what they wanna take from it and what they wanna do.

And I’ve always put links for everything. So if they want to go check it out for themselves, they can. And so I like that approach. Definitely. So let’s get into some more places that you’ve been. Cuz I wrote some down here. Sure. Um, that really interested me. Mm-hmm and the one was the ax

[00:32:00] Kris: house. Yeah. The Vale ex murder house.


[00:32:04] Jeremiah: yeah. Can you kind of explain like what that was about and what you experienced?

[00:32:09] Kris: Sure. Absolutely. So, um, the ska acts murder house is located in ska Iowa. And this was the scene of the 1912 murders, the acts murders of an, of an entire family, the Moore family. Um, so, uh, what happened very quickly to summarize the, uh, the story is in 1912, there was a family that owned the farmhouse, the Moore family.

So it was, uh, Josiah Moore and his wife, Sarah, and then they had four, four kids. And this night, um, of the murders, they actually had two other kids staying over. There was a church function that they had attended and there was two girls staying over as well. um, ina and, and Lena Stiller. They had come back from this family function and they had all gone to bed.

Apparently a man had been hiding in the attic that they didn’t know about. During the night he snuck outta the attic and he ended up killing Josiah and Sarah Moore, as they slept in their beds, he killed them with an ax. He basically mutilated their faces and then he went and killed the six kids.

And, um, so after he killed them, he did some strange things. He covered the mirrors in the house. Um, he washed his hands in the kitchen, but he left the blood there. Um, he also put a slab of bacon on the table and he smoked some cigarettes and then he left. He left the acts there as well. So they did find the acts and then he left and it’s still an unsolved murder.

Nobody knows who committed this heinous crime against his family. And. So the reports obviously have been since the murders that the house was haunted. And so when we went, um, it, we, there was five of us. And if you see the house on television shows and such. It looks a little bit larger than it is. We’re talking a very small country farmhouse in the middle of Iowa.

And so when we did the investigation, um, even though there were five of us, we only went in as a subset. So two of us would go in or three of us would go in because we felt five was just too much to have in the SI in the house at the same time. And so we, uh, we went about our routine. We set up our stationary voice recorders.

We set up our, our night vision, video cameras. And then we went in and we started what we call EVP sessions. Basically we go in and we sit down, we ask questions and we try to get responses. And so we had several things that we couldn’t explain. There was one instance where, um, uh Carra and Kim were walking up the stairs to the second floor and we had a voice recorder in the attic.

And as you, as you hear them walking up the stairs, a man’s voice in the attic says. Downstairs where the girls are sleeping. And so two things, one, there were no men in the house, so I’m not sure where that voice came from. And two ina and Lena stinger were killed downstairs in the bedroom downstairs.

They, they were the only two downstairs. That was kind of interesting. It’s it, to me, it was almost like a residual saying downstairs where the girls were sleeping. That was kind of interesting. Um, and then there was one instance where Jenny and Michelle were in the kids’ room where the four more, more children were killed.

They’re in the room and they’re sitting down on the floor and they’re asking questions. When they’re done, they stand up and Michelle kind of grabs, you see her on the camera, grab her forehead. She said, oh, when I, when I stood up, my head just started hurting and Jenny’s like, okay, let’s get you outside.

Let’s get you some water. And as they leave the room, we captured a child’s voice saying I didn’t do that. Kind of like, I didn’t give her the headache. Um, which was kind of interesting as well. And then, um, we had some very interesting K two hits what we call K2 hits, um, which indicated that some type of energy was acting on our K2 meters, um, that we can’t explain.

It was actually very intelligent. Um, cuz we have one gray meter in one black meter and we were saying. can you just go to the black one and that one would light up. Can you just go to the gray one and that one light up and so through a series of different questions? Um, we, we think we’re talking to the spirit of Sarah more, which was the mother.

And, um, so for us it was a great investigation. Uh, we had a great time going out to, uh, to Iowa to investigate that location. And really just to be in that, that house where so much tragedy had occurred.

[00:36:22] Jeremiah: Yeah. That sounds like a brutal story. And mm-hmm unfortunately they didn’t find who did it cuz um, that would, yeah, that’s pretty bad.

There was a kid, I don’t know how old he was. I think he was like 18 or 19. Uh, this was a long time ago when I was living in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and, uh, Christmas morning or was a Christmas Eve morning. One of those mornings, he, uh, killed his whole family and uh, then they, they caught him though. And.

Ended up going to the prison. And I knew someone that worked at the Lancaster prison and they said like, that kid was such a, like a-hole . Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I mean, you would have to be. Yeah. So yeah, I can only imagine what kind of trauma would happen that would keep, you know, the ghosts and residual stuff there.

And mm-hmm, the fact that you get these voices and male voices and they’re, it’s a full female team. So I mean, how do you explain that? You know exactly. And then, yeah, just, uh, it’s pretty incredible, uh, like hearing, I mean, I don’t like that people died, but I like the hearing, the stories and, uh, things that were actually, you know, caught instead of, you know, some of these, I hate to rag on all these shows all the time, but like where.

They’ll be looking at something and there’s absolutely nothing going on and they just like, get scared and run or whatever and it’s like, what the heck? Right. But yeah, to actually have like real evidence is mm-hmm is definitely a plus. So then, um, I have here and I hope I pronounce it correctly. The Lizzy Bordain, the

[00:38:15] Kris: Lizzy Borden house or Borden house.

Yeah. Lizzy Borden. Um, so this, this house, again, this was on our bucket list for a while. This was, um, in fall rivers, Massachusetts, and this is the site of the 1892 murders of Andrew and Abby Borden. And so the story is that Lizzy Borden and, uh, and her sister, they lived with their dad, Andrew and their stepmother, uh, Abby in this house in fall rivers and in, in 19, th in 1892, um, both Andrew and Abby were bludgeon to death again with an a, um, Andrew was hit in the face, I think 16 times and Abby was hit in the face 13 times.

Um, now the interesting thing about this is Lizzy Borden was actually in the house. And so they arrested her for the murder. She was 32 at the time they arrested her for the murders and, um, and she was actually the next year in, uh, 1893. Lizzy was acquitted. Was found not guilty. Um, the jury was of 12, 12 men.

And basically they said, we don’t believe a woman would be capable of doing something like this. And so there’s a lot of intricacies to the story. Um, you know, there’s, there’s con there’s controversy about whether, um, the dad was molesting her and just different things like that. Um, whether she wanted his inheritance, that was another conspiracy theory, but long story short.

she was, um, she was found guilty or she was found innocent of committing those murders and is still an unsolved murder. So again, since 1892, this house has had reports of paranormal activity. Um, later on, um, after 1892, there was a neighbor that had a couple of kids that died in a tragic accident in a well behind their house.

So the kids are said to inhabit the Lizzy Borden house as well. So when we investigat. , there were five of us again on this investigation. And, um, as soon as we start an investigation, we have our voice recorders running. So even when we’re pulling luggage out of the car or equipment out of the car to bring it into the house, if, if we’re in the house, we have a voice recorder running because we wanna make sure we get everything that we can, right.

So we were still in the process of setting up our equipment and there were three of us upstairs. Jenny and, and Kara were sitting in the parlor where Andrew Borden’s body was found. They’re just sitting there talking about the day and kind of some different things. Then they start getting on, uh, talking about the difference between the ska acts murder house, which we had investigated prior and the Lizzy Borden house.

During that conversation, Carra says either way being acts to death would be a horrible way to die. As soon as she said that a male’s voice on the voice recorder said it was. There was no man in the house. Um, and yet it seemed like this guy was interjecting into the conversation saying, yeah, it was a horrible way to die.

We have no explanation for that. Um, later on during the night we captured, um, children giggling when we were upstairs in the, on the third floor, uh, in the third floor attic area, um, we captured some children giggling and some of our devices started indicating that there was energy acting upon it when none of us were around that device.

That was kind of interesting. Um, we were all in the third floor room where the made Bridget Sullivan. who was the maid to the, the boards. That’s where, where her room was on the third floor. So we were all five of us in that room and we had the door shut. We were just asking questions again. Miranda had her K2 meter and she put it down on the floor.

She’s putting it down on the floor, she said, here’s another tool for you to play with. As she did that, a man’s voice in the hallway said, ignore them. It was so loud that said, ignore them. We all heard it. Jenny who was standing by the door, she whipped the door open to look out to make sure that, you know, nobody had come into the house.

Of course they hadn’t and we captured it on, uh, the voice recorders as well. Uh, so again, a very interesting location because we were capturing so many different things, both intelligent and, um, and what we call residual. So for us, the Lizzy Borden house was a great investigation.

[00:42:34] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely interesting.

And makes you wonder and. I know if I was there, I would probably have ran out. Cuz that was I get scared easily. So, oh, I would’ve, if I would’ve heard some guy yelling, like get out or something or ignore them, I’d be like, okay, it’s time to go see, yeah. ,

[00:42:55] Kris: you know, for us, it, it really is fascinating. Now I can honestly say we’ve had moments where we’ve been startled.

We have moments of, of trepidation obviously, but you know, for us, it’s just so fascinating that, you know, we’re, we’re communicating with energy, right. We’re communicating with a spirit. And so for us, that’s why we’re there and it, it really makes no point to run out. Um, like I said, we we’ve had those moments where it’s fight or flight and you kind of stand there and your, your hearing gets really acute, but, but then you’re like, okay, this is why we’re here.

This is what we’re here for. And so for us, it’s absolutely fascinating to try to get those responses and, and see if we can come up with an explanation form.

[00:43:35] Jeremiah: So you’ve. Don’t think that, um, the ghosts or spirits can actually like hurt anybody. They’re kind of just there.

[00:43:45] Kris: I, I do believe that there’s instances where if you provoke or you go in with what I call the wrong intentions, I E you’re there to really grand eyes, um, uh, your investigation, or again, provoke a spirit.

I do think that there’s times where you can get assaulted, I E scratched or something like that. Believe that’s possible. Say for us, we’ve never had that happen. We’ve never gone into a, a location and has, and have had, you know, anything happen to us where we have felt threatened or anything malicious, malicious, or malevolent towards us.

There have been locations where we feel something that’s darker. Mostly that happens in prisons for us. And it not, I’m not saying darker is in demonic. I’m saying darker as in this guy was a jerk in life and he’s a jerk in death. So we’re just gonna let him go and do his thing. Um, but we’ve never had anything like that where we’ve been physically assaulted.

Now we will go into locations and. You’re not allowed to touch us unless we give you permission to do so. And so going back to the exchange hotel, when we were trying to communicate with the, the child, Jeremiah, I said, you know, I’m, can you give a high five? I want you to touch me, touch me, gimme a high five, pull my pant leg.

And we have had things happen when we invite that. Um, but we’ve never, like I said, had anything that, uh, has been threatening or physically assaulting towards us.

[00:45:14] Jeremiah: Okay. So yeah, you haven’t, um, encountered now, do you think, um, do you think like demons are like separate from like spirit and ghosts? Like, I don’t know if you get into that kind of thing.

Mm-hmm but, or like exorcisms or any of that stuff, but like, there’s gotta be evil side to. to it. Yeah. Um, what’s your take on that?

[00:45:38] Kris: So when we go to our investigations, what we’re attempting to communicate with are those spirits that had a human existence, right? They were born, they lived, they died. And for some reason they’re stuck where they’re at.

Um, those three theories that I mentioned earlier, I, I do believe there are demons, but I don’t believe a Demonn had a human existence to me. A, a Demonn is a representation of the evil of the good and evil in the world. They never had that human existence, but they can exist. Um, and they, there are moments where I think you can provoke that, that Demonn entity.

Uh, but for us, we’ve never attempted to do that. Uh, and we’ve never experienced anything that I’ve felt is demonic. I mean, we’ve gone to some of the most reportedly haunted locations in the country and not once have we felt anything that is malicious or demonic, but again, we don’t go in looking for that.

When we go into a location. the first thing that we do is we set our intentions and we say, listen, we’re here to tell your story. We’re not here to harm you. Not here to provoke you. Here to threaten you in any way. Respect your location. And we’re here to respect you. All we wanna do is communicate and tell your story.

Um, and I think because we go in with that level of respect for both the location and the spirits, we kind of get that respect in return. We get communication back. We get instances where, you know, we’re not harmed or physically threatened in any way. And I, I think it, it really go, it goes back to the intention level that we set.

Um, now. If, if there is a location that we come across, um, in the future that has something that we would consider demonic, you know, that’s fine. We will leave that space. And we have, um, friends in, uh, that are demonologist that we can call, um, or priests that we can call and they can help us with that, that location or that case.

But for us, that’s really something that we don’t even delve delve into.

[00:47:33] Jeremiah: Yeah. That’s probably a good thing. And I always ask my, uh, ghosts or paranormal guests, like what, uh, they view for like oui boards and stuff like that. And mm-hmm, a lot of, ’em say, you know, don’t really mess with it. If you don’t really know what you’re doing, because a lot of people don’t know what the heck they’re doing.

And then they could invite like bad spirits or bad energy and. So, yeah.

[00:47:59] Kris: Yeah, absolutely. And, and that’s something that we don’t use. Um, not so much that I think we would open a portal or something like that, but there, it, it’s, it’s really the, um, the connotation behind Awei board. Right? Most people, as soon as you say oui board, they automatically think in their minds, demons, portals, evil.

Um, and, and so that’s just one tool that we’ve never utilized simply because of the connotation behind it. But, um, you know, to your point, I think any tool that if you use in a manner that, um, that it’s not intended for, or you go in with the intention of trying to provoke something, um, or conjure something that, that you shouldn’t be dealing with.

I, I think anything that you take in there could, could have that same result where you get the really the response that you’re looking for. Right. So,

[00:48:53] Jeremiah: Oh, yeah, definitely. All right. So one last, uh, investigation that I wanted to hear from you about uh mm-hmm and then we’ll wrap it up. But, um, and I hope I get the names right too ma and Fred Barker

[00:49:09] Kris: mm-hmm yep.

[00:49:10] Jeremiah: and there’s story. And there. The your experience with it.

[00:49:14] Kris: Mm-hmm absolutely. So absolutely love this story. Um, so this, uh, the ma Barker house was the site of the 1935 shootout between Mon Fred Barker, who are two members of the Barker carpus gang and members of the FBI. Um, so kind of how this came about is you’ve got ma Barker who is, um, the matriarch of the, the Barker carpus gang, who was a really, it was a, it was a really prolific gang, um, in the 1920s and 1930s.

In fact, the, the, the Barker gang, uh, actually called the Barker carpus gang a lot amassed more money than all of the other gangs of the 1920s, 1930s combined. That’s how prolific they were. Um, so you had the great depression from 1929 to 1939, coupled with prohibition from 1920 to 1933. And this is really giving gangs, um, uh, the rise in America.

So. Long story short, you’ve got Jay Edgar Hoover who comes to power and, and, and head of the FBI in 1924. And, um, he decides to go after the Barker carpus gang, because they escalate into kidnapping, which is a federal offense. So they, they kidnap two guys, um, in 1934, um, William ham and Edward Bremer. They get the reward money for them, and then the gang splits.

When they split, they, they split up, they split the money and then they split themselves. Ma Barker and one of her sons, Fred go down to central Florida to this little, literally one, one stoplight town called Aloha, which is in Marion county. And, uh, so they hide out in this house, which was belonged to a guy by the name of, of, uh, of Carson.

The Carson family. And, uh, so they hide out in this house in 1934, November of 1934 in January of 1935, Jay Edgar Hoover tracks them down to the house, a gun battle ensues on the morning of January 16th, 1935. And it culminates with ma and Fred Barker being killed inside the upstairs room of this house.

So. After they were killed, um, uh, Carson Bradford and his family, they maintained the house as it was during that shootout. So when you go in today, there’s bullet holes all on the walls. The SCOs are the same. The doors are the same. The floors are the same. Everything is maintained in this house as it was in 1935, everything, but the windows, I mean the furniture there’s furniture with bullet holes that you can line up to bullet holes in the wall.

Right? And so, um, the reason we knew about this house is because, um, it, it, we were born in Marion county and my grandparents lived about four miles from the house. So every time we’d visit N and granddaddy, and we’d go into Olo, waha, they’d say, you know, that’s where Mon Fred Barker were killed. So in 2016, Carson Bradford’s family decided they were gonna sell the house.

They were gonna sell the land. And the new owners of the land did not want the house. They were gonna demolish it. And so Marion county, Florida decided that they were going to take the house, take possession of the house and move it. Um, to a new location. Basically they put it on a barge and they floated it across lake Weir about two and a half miles away and put it on 40 acres in a state park.

That’s where it sits today. It’s 40 acres in the middle of pretty much nowhere. There’s no light pollution, there’s no noise pollution or anything like that. When we asked Marion county, if we could investigate this house, we were the first paranormal investigation team to be allowed access to the mom Barker house.

We went in, it was a two part investigation. And what I wanted to do with the first part was I wanted to have equipment in the house on the anniversary of the shootout. So what we did is on January 15th, we put all of the stationary equipment in the house, voice recorders, um, uh, uh, stationary night vision, video cameras.

Handheld equipment that we had, we left K2 meters. We left all of that in the house on January 15th, the night of, and then we left, we locked the house and we left. And so all of that equipment ran to encompass the morning of January 16th, which would’ve been the 83rd anniversary of the shootout. And so when we went back and listened to the audio and video that we captured, we had some interesting things that we couldn’t explain.

Um, we had the sound of chairs being drug across the floor. We had the sound of doors being slammed. Um, we had a man’s voice saying get out. Had some different, um, things that sounded like maybe like a ball rolling or something like that, or a marble rolling. But one of the most interesting things that we captured, again, there’s nobody in the house.

One of the most interesting things that we capture. was at about five 30 in the morning, which is when the shootout happened or started at about five 30 in the morning. We captured two voices on the voice recorder, in the room where ma and Fred’s body were found. The first voice said, Freddy, the second voice said, yeah, ma the first one said, get ready.

And I, and I believe that’s a residual haunting. I believe that’s actually what was said in that room 83 years ago, before the shootout happened. So we got all of that. And so then about two weeks later, Jenny and I. Went into the house and we are the only two people in the house. Um, and so we are using some various pieces of equipment.

And one of the things that we were using was the spirit box that AMFM radio that I told you about earlier. And so again, this house sits in the middle of about 40 acres there. This radio is very small. There’s no radio stations that are in the area that this thing could pick up, right? So we turned on the AMFM radio and we started sweeping and you hear that static.

And I said, what happened in this room? And through the spirit box, they said, we got the, the phrase they murdered us. We, the ones dead. Now think about that for just a second. This, this spirit box is going through frequencies. At an eighth of a second, it’s changing to another frequency, but yet we got this full phrase that came through this spirit box.

Um, and theoretically, that should not happen. Right. So what are the odds that you have all of these stations lining up to give me the phrase they murdered us, we, the ones dead. Um, so that was extremely interesting to us and we captured some other things on some of our equipment as well, that night. Um, but for me, I mean the ma Barker house, I is one of those, the most fascinating investigations that we’ve been a part of.

[00:55:45] Jeremiah: Yeah. I kind of want to go check it out now just to go back in time a little bit, cuz mm-hmm if everything’s left the same. the pull holes and everything. It’s like, the police are like, oh, we’re done investigating it. It’s it’s, uh, left alone after that.

[00:56:00] Kris: So mm-hmm . Yeah. And, and that’s really what it was. And I’m really glad that the, that Carson Bradford’s family and, and Carson Bradford himself had the, the foresight to just maintain it like that.

Right. So, I mean, they hung up pictures and stuff to cover the bullet holes, but I mean, you walk up the stairs and, and you see ’em, um, there’s, there’s rocking chairs and, and furniture and, um, uh, trunks like vintage, uh, clothing trunks that when you open the lid, I mean, you see the bullet holes through and you can line it up to the bullet holes in the wall.

It’s, it’s pretty wild.

[00:56:31] Jeremiah: Yeah. That is, uh, very interesting. And I that’s in Florida, you said

[00:56:37] Kris: mm-hmm yeah. In central, in Marion county, Florida. Yep.

[00:56:40] Jeremiah: Dang. But you probably need a permit or something to, or permission to go on the property.

[00:56:45] Kris: Uh, you need to call Marion county, um, uh, park and rec and, uh, they’ll they have tours.

Uh, in fact, I was a doc in there for about eight months after our, our second investigation. So I led day tours and such in there, um, really telling the, the, the history as well as the paranormal, um, about the house. But, uh, yeah, so just call them and make an appointment and you, you can take a tour her.

[00:57:07] Jeremiah: Yeah, I might have to do that actually. it sounds so interesting. And I love, I love history, mostly like ancient history, but like even stories like this where, um, it wasn’t too, too long ago, but mm-hmm, like, it’s just a rich history story. Like the fact that they moved the house and the fact that everything’s left the same, like, I love that kind of stuff.


[00:57:33] Kris: you and me both. . Yeah. And, and that was one of the things that, that we wanted to really delve into because, um, you know, I wanted to see if the spirits moved with the house and, uh, and, and, and not stayed with the land. And they did right. Mon Fred, I do believe that their spirits moved with the house.

And the reason being is they had no ties to the land. Right. They, they were nomadic, they were gangsters. They were nomadic in life. And so for me, why not stay with the, the location where you died. Um, and, and so that’s the reason why, cause I have a lot of people asking, you know, why didn’t you investigate the land, the actual property one, I couldn’t get onto it.

Cuz the owners said no. Um, but for me they, they, they wouldn’t be with the land. Right. They, they had no ties to it. So I was pretty sure that if anything was gonna be haunted, it was gonna be the house.

[00:58:22] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, definitely. It’s kind of like if you’re a Noma, you don’t care about where you are at. You’re just.

Hopping around. And then other people it’s like if they were born and raised and stayed where they grew up, then they’re tied to the land cuz it’s familiar and mm-hmm uh, you know, you get people that end up moving back to where they were born and raised. Cuz they just like the is just something about it.

That just the experience of growing up. So yeah. I definitely agree with you there. So I’ll ask one more question and that is if you could go and there’s no restrictions, no nothing. What would your next, uh, like dream investigation B.

[00:59:10] Kris: Oh, I’d love to go international. Um, I would love to get over to Ireland.

There’s a castle there called leap castle. That’s definitely the, the number one location on my bucket list and really anywhere in, in Europe, in London. Um, I’ve been there several times as a tourist, but not as a paranormal investigator. And, you know, I, I love American history. There’s everything about American history fascinates me, but you know, obviously Europe has that longevity that we just don’t have here.

And so when you go into a, a castle or, um, you know, somewhere that is from the 19 or from the 16 hundreds or the 15 hundreds, you know, that to me is absolutely fascinating. So getting over to Ireland, to England, um, to Europe in general, that would definitely be bucket list locations for me. Um, there’s a plantation in, uh, Australia called the Monte Christo plantation.

Uh, again, that’s a place I’ve been to as a tourist, but not as a paranormal investigator. It has a lot of haunting reports. So I’d love to get over there. and really just any place here in the us that has, uh, an interesting legend or lore, um, you know, someplace that we investigate, you know, even from, you know, small houses to jails, to cemeteries, uh, all of it to me really is really fascinating.

So, um, you know, for me, I, I always have voice recorders in K two meters in my car. Just if, if an I impromptu investigation occurs, cuz it is just, all of it is just fascinating.

[01:00:35] Jeremiah: Oh yeah. You never know when you might need to break ’em out and exactly. take a look and I’m into the whole UFO phenomenon. So like it’s kind of similar, I guess, in the fact that it could happen anywhere anytime.

So a lot of people like to be prepared and try to have a, their camera ready. Something, so they can capture it.

[01:00:59] Kris: mm-hmm oh, absolutely. You have to be ready.

[01:01:02] Jeremiah: yep. So thank you for coming on. And speaking with us, we covered a lot of ground and very interesting stories and definitely, um, like what you’re doing.

I hope you keep it up and, uh, keep the scientific approach. Uh, like I said, I don’t like using that term, but in this instance it’s like, yeah, you’re trying to make it as real as possible without, you know, fantasizing, I guess. And yeah. Just keep up the good work and, um, definitely good to have you

[01:01:35] Kris: on. Well, thank you, Jeremiah.

I, I appreciate it.