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[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow terrestrials and welcome back. We’re gonna have a stimulating conversation with Dr. David Edward. Gonna be talking about a mystery that’s as old as time, and that is the law city of Atlantis. Talking with Dave about his, uh, research and his evidence that he thinks he has found the law city of Atlantis.

So we’ll get into a riveting conversation about what he has found, but first, if you could rate and review the show, I would highly appreciate it. And also if you want to contact me, you can go to on the contact page? You can shoot me an email if you want to be a guest on the show, or if you have a show topic idea, or if you just wanna talk about anything, fringe hit me up on there.

I respond to all my messages in a timely manner. So let’s travel back in time with Dave, Edward, and talk about the law city of Atlantas and remember question everything.


Hello, and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast? I’m your host. Jeremiah. I’m joined today by Dave, and we’re gonna be talking about Atlantis.

The topic that a lot of people like to dive into, or just have a curiosity about. And David here wrote a book on Atlantis and what he thinks about Atlantis and where he thinks Atlantis is located. So we’ll get into all that juicy stuff later. So right now I’ll introduce him. Hello, David. Hello, Jeremiah.

[00:02:09] David: How are you? Good. How are you? I am I’m super duper. It’s it’s eight. O’clock where I am. So normally I’m pretty lit up by now, but I held off on all of that so we could have a good coherent podcast.

[00:02:20] Jeremiah: Yep. It’s eight o’clock here too. And okay, beautiful. Uh, it’s five o’clock somewhere, I guess.

[00:02:25] David: yeah, it, it, those poor bastards.

[00:02:30] Jeremiah: we got, um, a very hot topic and uh, a lot of people like to look into it and fantasize about it and, uh, solans what, uh, What made you like set off on this journey? Like, did you hear about it? And you were like, yeah, I’m gonna write a book about this. Or, um, like, is it something you’ve always been interested

[00:02:56] David: in?

Yeah, look, I’m a nerd. Right. And it sounds like we’re both kind of like nerds. I, I think I’m a little older than you. So, you know, I came up in, in the seventies when I was a kid, you know, we didn’t have as much content as we do now. Um, but if there was a book written on Atlantis or, uh, spaceships, I mean, anything Aaron Von Danigan wrote, you know, you mentioned it.

I, I read it as a kid. It’s just what I read. And I watched all the shows, um, uh, you know, constantly, constantly, and I’ve been watching the shows for, for 30 years and stuff. So, so basically, I don’t know, it was. Maybe four months ago now. Um, I had, I had listened to all of the, what if the wrong podcasts that I, I possibly could.

I’m an old guy. I can’t sleep. So I was up and I just, I, you know, I, I, I looped through your stuff over and over again. And then when I ran outta that content, I went over to YouTube. Uh, and I started in, in YouTube, fed me the, uh, bright insight channel with Jimmy Corcetti. Um, if you’re familiar with that and he, in 2018, um, he kind of, I guess, created his channel and he found this thing called the rich hat structure.

Although it goes a little bit before him, I know the whole history of it, which we can get into, but he kind of, he’s the one who popularized it. Um, and he kind of broke the news. And then, so in 2018, 19,020, there was obviously a lot of gyration around this particular location called the rich hat structure, which is in, uh, the, uh, Western Sahara, um, in a country called more.

And so I, I was watching this and I have a background. I’ve got, uh, a doctorate degree, I’ve got three graduate degrees. I’ve been president of university. Um, you know, I’ve taken Asian history courses, I’ve written 42 books. So I, I have that toolkit. And when I saw this and I listened to ’em, I was like, you know, I think there’s something there.

Uh, so I decided, and, and Jimmy does a really good job and I’ve talked to Jimmy. Um, in fact he and I, we have a couple projects we’re actually working on. Um, but he didn’t get everything right. I didn’t think, and then I kind of delved into it and I, you know, and he started exploring and he realized there are some criticisms.

So I, I wanted to see if he was right. So I started my own research kind of independently from, from ground zero. Um, using much more of a scientific methodology, very modern, uh, approach to this. And I said, let me see if I can verify, uh, how close this RHA structure, um, fits. Uh, to what, uh, we know about Atlantis and we can get into what we know.

We don’t know very much, but we know something and I’ve had, there’s another guy, David STIG, Hanson, who I always, um, mention, I don’t know if you know him. He has a channel, uh, on YouTube with, under his name. And, um, he’s actually been to the rich hat structure and he has millions of photos and he’s got lots of videos, but I’ve talked to him, uh, at great length.

He’s a talker, I’ve got a, uh, a geochemist, um, that, uh, I’ve worked with to look at some of the rocks that are out there. So we’re trying to, to do this a little more scientifically and analytically, um, which is kind of how I fell into this whole thing. And the book Atlanta’s solved the final definitive proof, which is of course, available on Amazon.

It came out in, uh, April of this year. So

[00:05:56] Jeremiah: for the people listening that might not know what is this Ette structure and where is it

[00:06:02] David: located? Sure. And let’s, and so let’s talk about two things. We’ve got the Ette structure and how it lines up to. Atlantis. And then we’ve got what we know about Atlantis and, and what we think we know about Atlantis, cuz there’s a lot of, uh, nonsense to use a kid friendly word, um, about whatever this place is, but what the rich hat structure is.

It’s a, um, they call it a, uh, a volcanic dome. Um, so was just a way that’s explaining how it was formed. If you go look at it, if you just go to Google and you type in RHA, um, R I C H a T um, that’s why I gotta type in, you’ll start to see pictures of go over to the images and what it is. It’s um, about 345 miles inland, which we’ll talk about why that’s actually good versus bad.

And it is a geologic formation that has mountains to the north is open to the south it’s um, in the middle of the Western Sahara desert, it has, uh, a center structure and then it has two concentric circles of raised. And then between those lower areas, where if there was water, if it was raining, you know, it’d be a lake.

So you have, you have this classic kind of Atlantis sign of a center island and then two concentric, um, rings of water and land outside of it. Uh, so it looks really interesting and it doesn’t look like anything else on earth. Um, and it’s in, uh, more which just the name of that country. It’s kind of a cool name, right?

Mo no other country in Africa has, has a name like that. Um, but yeah, and, and this has been known, uh, in the book and available on the internet are a lot of, uh, uh, NASA images, a lot of satellite image of this thing. It was discovered like in the 1950s, when we started putting satellites up and it’s actually a landmark that, uh, uh, the space shuttle, the us space shuttle uses when we had one, we don’t have one now, but when they had one, they would use it to, um, uh, what they call coordinate, you know, on their approach.

When they, when they got over this part of the world, they could see it very visible from space and they would use that to kind of know about where they were. So it’s, it’s just a wildly interesting. Yeah.

[00:08:02] Jeremiah: I guess the originating story about Atlantis and this loss civilization goes back to, um, Plato.

And, um, I forget the name of it. It’s like Craus and TAUs or something.

[00:08:17] David: Courteous and Timus um, and you know, you can have, I, I, I, for a long time thought it was CR courteous. Um, and tinies, but I guess that’s not the right way to say it. So it’s courteous. It’s a hard eye as, as they say, but yeah, so he, he wrote, so, so let’s talk about, so Plato is, um, uh, an ancient Greek philosopher.

That’s how, that’s what we call him today. I don’t think he would’ve seen himself that way, but he wrote a bunch of things called dialogues and what these dialogues were, and this is in what they call the classical, uh, grease period. So we’re talking 400 BC plus and minus, um, and the dialogues were.

recording a lot of the conversations he had with his teacher, Socrates, um, Plato actually founded a school, uh, and famous people like Aristotle. If you’ve heard of Aristotle, you know, graduated from the school. In fact, there’s, there was some, there’s some controversy with Aristotle that we can get into.

Plato died in like, um, I 19 or, uh, 360 something or three 40 something, uh, BCE. It was like he died 12 years after Alexander. The great was born. Um, and Aristot. Mentored Alexander. The great, so we’ve kind of got lineage, you know, all the way from Socrates through Plato, through Aristotle, to Alexander the great of course, Alexander the great conquered, um, conquered the world in these dialogues.

We, all of us didn’t read the Republic. We carried it around when we were in high school, I think in 10th grade, um, we probably carried it around from month as we were supposed to be reading it, but no one read it. You know, none of us read it even, I didn’t read it and I’m super into this stuff, but you know, I’m not gonna do it.

They told me to read it. So there’s no way I was gonna read it. um, but that’s his most famous work, the Republic. Um, and in the Republic he tells us things like, um, uh, uh, what. If, if he were to try and put a government together, because one, he, one of the things he was trying to figure out is what does a good form of self-government government look like?

Right? Because the Athenians, they invented democracy. Um, the way they did it, it had, uh, a few more challenges than we have today. Some of the problems they had were the same, but so he did a lot of that. He, he wrote out, well, if, you know, maybe if we were to kind of do a thought experiment and, and put it all together, he wrote all that down.

And then he had this, an allegory called the cave, which is very famous. This is like the most famous, uh, platonic or Plato thing. And, um, what that, what he was trying to do there is explain, okay. You know, like what’s a chair, you know, what is justice? What’s the right thing to do? And his theory was, there is kind of the perfect version of it.

Like when we look at something and we know it’s the chair, how do we know it’s a chair? Well, cuz a chair has attributes and has kind of a perfect form. He would say, and then the real world is all copies of that form. And then so, you know, and so that’s his thing in courteous. Um, he records the story of Atlantis from Crius who’s the speaker of it and, and Crius his grand.

Great, great, great grandfather named Solon had gone to Egypt in 600 BCE, um, because Solon was a, uh, Athenian, um, Politician. And this is early. This is before the classical period. This, when they’re, they’re, they’re trying, they come outta their dark age. Uh, and he went there trying to figure out what to do.

Uh, one of the things that the Egyptians did was they talked to him about their ancient history. Um, and he wrote down what they said, and they spent a lot of time translating, um, a lot of the hieroglyphics and the scrolls and the histories they have into this ancient history story of Atlantis, which is what he wrote down.

And then one of the myths is that, uh, Plato heard it. It was kinda like this oral tradition. Um, it was passed down for hundreds of years. So it couldn’t be that accurate, but that’s not actually what he says, what he says is this guy courteous, um, had possession of the scroll that Solon wrote, he read it.

And then he was telling, um, Plato and other people, um, what is said. Uh, so that’s kind of how we know about Atlantas.

[00:11:58] Jeremiah: Okay. And then from that, um, I know he talked about like, you, you come at a different take than a lot of people where like a lot of people think that. Oh, Atlantas was super advanced, had like lasers and, you know, spaceships and stuff like that.

But you, from what I’ve heard, like think it was more of like more advanced for that time. Not like what we think of advanced.

[00:12:24] David: Yeah. I mean, look, one of the problems with Atlantas and it’s hard to talk about, and there’s a lot of setup to do, just to be able to talk about it. Um, but the Atlantas has been beaten to death, right?

And it, you can pretty much go find someone who is gonna tell you they’re an authority, uh, who will tell you anything about it. But look, it’s not nuclear submarines. It’s not UFOs, it’s not death race. Matter of fact, the RHA structure in the time period, which we can get to the time period doesn’t require, um, a single thing.

That we know, you know, typically people that, that like Atlantis or UFOs, they have this term called, you know, like the, the, the mainstream academics, right. Or academia or, or so, and they’ll say, well, they’re wrong. And then this is what it really is. But for the rich structure to be Atlantis, no one has to be wrong.

Um, here’s what, here’s what we know about it. Uh, the, the time period we’re talking about. So the story in play that says it happened 9,000 years before Solon went to Egypt. Well, he went to Egypt in 96 or in 600 BC. Um, he had 9,000 years, so he get 90. Uh, thousand BC, uh, that time period corresponds to two things that, that actually lend a lot of credibility to what Plato’s saying.

Uh, the first is we’re dealing with a time period at, at the end of, um, what they call the younger dries. And I can tell you what the, what a dries is basically it’s it was the last ice age. Um, and it’s when all of a sudden, exactly like to, almost to the, to the day, um, the earth temperature increased like 40 degrees, which is a hint that something.

Bad happened. And there would’ve been things like earthquakes and tsunamis and all that stuff. Now, also during the last ice age, this part of Africa, the entire Sahara desert from, um, from Egypt all the way over through Libya, um, through Morocco and then through more, all the way to the Atlantic ocean was what they called the green Sahara.

So, you know, we talked about it, what time it was I’m in Florida. I’m, I’m just a hair north, uh, you know, latitude longit longitude, um, of, you know, where this thing is on the planet. So the weather was about like what I’m seeing, which is it rains a lot. Um, it was very green. They, they, there were huge lakes in the middle of Africa lake.

Chad was the biggest lake on the planet for a long time during this period. Um, so that’s 9,600 BC. What history tells us is two things were going on in 9,600 BC, uh, first off and, and historians don’t dispute this younger driest thing. In fact, uh, there was the younger dries sea older dries, and the oldest dries, which go back in time and the dries is just a plant apparently.

And they can that preserves well, so they can. Measure the plant in the, in the soil and stuff. And they can fig kind of guess what was going on on the planet. Um, we also know about about 10,000 BC is when agriculture is when is when hunter gatherers and cavemen, whatever you wanna call ’em started to, to, um, form into camps and started to, um, have agriculture as part of what they do.

And so they started to build societies around it. So that that’s 10,000 BC, that that’s 400 years before this 9,600. Um, so no, one’s gonna dispute that. Um, and then we have the, uh, uh, what they call, they call it the pre pottery neolithic, which is, so you have the ice age, which ended about 9,600 BC. And, and then you have, uh, the pre pottery, neolithic and neolithic.

That just means the new stone age. So it’s a transition from the, the prior stone age, but all pre pottery neolithic means at this time is that, um, people use stones as tools and they hadn’t, they weren’t baking pots yet. which is consistent with what we find, um, at, at the structure. Uh, it’s also consistent with, um, people living in this area.

And if you look at the rich hat structure and you, you take into account that, um, we’re talking about the green Sahara, then we’re talking about a ton of rain. We’ve got lake Chad, biggest lake on the planet. It’s raining, raining, raining, and, and the geography around this thing fits perfectly to, if, if it’s raining a lot, the rivers drain into this large basin around where these, um, islands would’ve been, uh, they form a river that flows, you know, to the sea.

There there’s plenty of room for agriculture and all the things that Plato tells us, um, that they were doing. So it’s, it’s, it’s the only thing about, um, is the only answer for Atlantis. It doesn’t require you to conflict with any of the current view of history and it matches everything Plato’s set. So a lot of times, you know, I talked about these TV shows I watched in the, in the seventies, eighties, even, even still you watch ’em in, in the, format’s still the same, the first half hour.

It’s just amazing travel log with very smart sounding people who are telling you how they’ve got the whole thing figured out and you buy into it. Then the second half hour is them, uh, telling you how now they, they don’t really know, and they gotta change this and maybe Plato got this wrong. You know, maybe the time’s this or time’s that.

They never answer the question. Right. But for this, we can answer the question without having to conflict with anything Plato said, without having to have current historians changed anything they believe or know about our history, which I think is, uh, amazing.

[00:17:19] Jeremiah: So if it’s in this part of Northern Africa and you said it was inland, um, how does that.

go with the tail of like it being in the sea and then sinking.

[00:17:34] David: Yeah. Well it says, it says it sink into the sea and, you know, remember we’re dealing with a translated document and we’re dealing with language that has, you know, not none, no one speaks ancient Greek anymore. Um, so if you were trying to describe, you know, we all lived, we had that tsunami in, um, in Japan.

I don’t, I forget how long ago it was 10 years ago, whatever it was. But if you were trying to explain what happened to the nuclear power plan, um, and you’re gonna go through a couple translations. One of the things you could have said is that the sea swallowed it, which is a hundred percent accurate, but, and it did, but it didn’t mean it doesn’t mean it was on an island in the middle of the ocean has sunk into the.

So that language we, you know, historically, and I say, Atlantis has been beaten to death, that there is this odd historical narrative, um, that, that people will gravitate to, if they don’t like what you’re saying, and they’ll try and use it to, to, to, you know, kind of poo poo your view, um, or they will gravitate to, um, if they think it supports their view.

Uh, but if we just look at what the words mean, you know, to Playto this, this thing sits, it sits, uh, the rich hat stressor today is somewhere between three and 4,000 feet above sea level. So about half a mile, little more than half a mile. Um, it’s, it’s, uh, Playto tells us was on a, a gently sloping plane to the sea with mountains to the north of 300 stadia.

Okay. So a stadia is 607 feet, and that’s the Alexandrian measure, which is the measure that, that, um, uh, that Plato would’ve used, you know, to talk about. So. When you multiply 607 feet times 3000, you get 345 miles up three and 45 miles. Plato tells us it was on a gently sloping plane, 3000 stadia. The, the eye of this aha is on a gently sloping plane with mountains to the north, um, up 345 miles.

So that fits and the biggest tsunami that has been observed was like 1700 feet tall. Okay. Um, right now I, I mentioned if, if the, if the sea level would arise like 400 feet, then this thing would be at the sea level. It’s not gonna do that, but so a S a big tsunami coming up that gently sloping plane at 345 miles, there’s nothing to stop it.

Um, and we know tsunamis form that could very easily reach this area and much farther inland. Um, if, if the, uh, if the plates shifted and the plate, and there is a plate there, there’s a Ridge that could actually send this to the west coast of Africa. So it just makes it, it makes sense further it’s on the cover of the book.

Um, it’s in Jimmy’s videos and it’s just a, a picture that’s out there. One of the NASA pictures, you can clearly see it’s it’s, it is an image from the west looking east, and you can see, uh, the, the remnants of the water flowing away, flowing out. So the hu economy coming in, and then you can see it pulling down and all the drainage.

And it’s still visible today. It’s, it’s, it’s infinitely clear what it is when you look at the satellite view from that side. Yeah.

[00:20:23] Jeremiah: And he also said in his video about like their salt deposits

[00:20:28] David: yeah. Around that all salt is sodium sodium chloride, and all salt comes from the sea. Um, and there is, I mean, how does Morita make its money, uh, mining and play hotels?

This place was rich in mining and, and salt mining that that’s like their primary, uh, source of income. It, it it’s, I mean, it’s, cuz it’s mostly desert, you know, it’s a very difficult country. Um, but yeah, they make the money today, still salt mining and the only way. Uh, to have salt, there is if the ocean was over it and then a lot of water evaporated.

Right. Um, which is doesn’t mean it had to be, uh, it having to do with Atlantas, but it supports the, you know, we’re dealing with circumstances, it supports the circumstance that this thing was covered in water and, and the salt is proof of that. And there’s salt everywhere out there. Yeah,

[00:21:14] Jeremiah: definitely. And I saw, um, that there’s evidence of like water erosion around the area, even though it’s like a desert.

[00:21:22] David: Oh yeah. We found, in fact, I told you I’ve got a geologist that no one knows that. So this is the first time I’m mentioning this. And I don’t, I don’t want to like to come forward with stuff and tell us completely thought out, but we’ve found, um, what, and, and so, you know, we, David Hanson went there about a year ago.

He’s going back in October to verify this. We have pictures of this. We, we found what we, what looks like a, a stone platform kind of on the Northern and Eastern side of this thing. Very, very big, huge, uh, which we’re gonna examine. We found. Hundreds of canals, uh, and, and agricultural work. Um, the type of things you see in, uh, what they call it, step agriculture, uh, what you would see, you know, if, if you had a big agrarian, um, society, we, uh, we see that.

And then we see, uh, structures that look exactly like the BI road, um, about 10 miles to the north of this rich hat structure. People like the BIM road, you know, the, the, the people that don’t like the rich hat structure tend to like the Azos is the answer for this, which, which we can talk about. You know, we, we’re dealing with this city of Atlantas the continent of Atlantas and then this, this kingdom of Atlantas and I, and I think it’s pretty obvious that this was a seafaring culture.

When you look at how they, um, grew their food, and then you look at things like the BIM road and you see that same sign, even though that’s underwater. You know, you maybe use dealing with people that had the same, you know, we we’re gonna use this term technology in advanced and all that. Let’s talk about what that, that means they weren’t advanced from our standpoint.

Um, but they certainly were advanced from Platos. Uh, now they weren’t, they weren’t advanced when it came to the ability to kill each other, cuz we’re talking about a stone age culture. Right. So, so they, um, in fact, and we know they weren’t very good at war because while they did invade Libya in Egypt, in parts of Europe, uh, whatever was going on in Greece at 9,600 BC, which would be, uh, proto Greeks, you know, we can’t even call in Greeks.

Uh, uh, but they, they fought a war and, and Thelan lost the Greeks beat ’em back. So it, I think from advanced, what Plato says is they were really good at agriculture. And matter of fact, like you wouldn’t believe how good they were, which I think we found evidence to support on ground. Um, and then he really liked some of the ways they organized themselves.

Um, they had a pack each, each of the, um, The princes of, of the provinces, there were 10 provinces. They had a pack not to, not to fight with each other. Um, not to go to war with each other. If, if someone attacked one of ’em, they had a pack that said they would all, you know, come to their age. Just, just basic stuff.

That for us kind of, we, we feel like it’s common sense. But at this point in our history, it was, it was revolutionary in its concept. Oh

[00:24:04] Jeremiah: yeah, definitely. Cuz you have to look at it from Plato’s perspective, not our perspective cuz it’s a completely different

[00:24:12] David: time. no, that that’s exactly right. One of the things I lay out rules and the rules is we can’t assume, you know, that Plato was an idiot.

We can’t assume the Atlan were idiots. Um, and uh, we need to know what Plato thought he was writing, not 2000 years of people speculating on what they wanted him to have written. Uh, and when you do that and you strip all that away, cuz Plato’s our only source for this thing. He’s our only primary source.

Although I, I found two. Um, supporting sources for him, but, but he, but he’s our only real source. And then to get back to Aristotle real quick, some people, some people ask me, well, how come, you know, why didn’t Aristotle pick up on this? Or why did anybody, you know, kind of pick up on this or, or run with it after Playdoh and Aristotle didn’t buy it.

Aristotle did not think the story of Atlantis was true. Um, but, and, and Aristotle is famous for a lot of things, but he was a contemporary of this guy named Cranor, um, and both Aristotle and Cranor and other people were students of Playto. And when Playto died, uh, the person who was gonna take over the academy that the school that he created, he created the first university.

Um, it was either gonna be Aristotle. It was gonna be Cranor and Cranor. Beat him out. Sorano continued play those leg legacy Aristotle kind of pouted off, went off, had, you know, had, has his own ideas, which are brilliant. And he’s a brilliant man. He did brilliant things, but he stepped away from what they called the platonic school and he created his own.

Um, I’m not gonna be able to say it Aris to Italian, you know, way of, of, of looking at things now Cranor is interesting because he, he believed what Plato had wrote and there was controversy even then. Uh, so what he says he did, and I, this is what he says he did. I haven’t, I don’t have any proof of this, but I proof is what he said he did is he went to Egypt and he verified the story is what he says.

Um, so we do have immediately after Plato people looking at this, trying to sew it up, and then the person who took over the academy kind of vouchers for this particular dialogue, which is wildly, um, interesting. I think, I don’t remember what your question was, but I told you I was just

[00:26:10] Jeremiah: rambling. So it’s is okay.

Uh, so for like, we’re talking about Egypt or you just talked about Egypt, um, Did Atlantis have any contact with them or were they before that time or?

[00:26:24] David: Well, so it’s a good question. So what we do know is that Atlantis militarily conquered Egypt. That’s what, that’s what, that’s what the Egyptians told Plato.

They conquered Libya, Egypt and parts of Europe, which also gives us geographic clues as to where it has to be. It has to be somewhere geographically located to Libya, Egypt, and parts of Europe. Um, we also know that the Egyptians recorded the history of it. So there is, um, whatever you wanna call it.

There’s an association there that they were somehow involved. Um, and in Egypt has always been, you know, a very, um, prominent empire, whatever you wanna call it, country in the Mediterranean, which apparently went back. Tens of thousands of years, you know, we’ve just learned from this. Uh, so yes they have, they have the history recorder, although we can’t find any of it today.

So many people say, you go, here you go. There, you look at this, you look at that there’s proof of Atlanta there isn’t, it doesn’t exist. There’s only two things I’ve been able to find that verify or that corroborate Plato’s account. Um, the first is a historian that actually came before Plato named OUS.

And, uh, uh, Jimmy went over this on one of his videos. He got, he didn’t really get this one. Right. Um, but he, at least he at least made that connection. And OUS wrote this book called the histories and it was the first real attempt to write down. Um, what the Greeks knew about the world, everyone in the world, and then what the Greeks were doing.

And he kind of, you know, takes us up through, uh, the Persian invasions of four 90 and 4, 4 81, that kind of stuff. Um, and the first half of that, book’s more like a travel log. So he’s just saying, you know, you go, you walk 10 miles this way, and then you see this and you walk in, or 10 stadia or 10 days is what he usually says 10 days.

You see this and da, da, da, and, and he gives you, he says, you, you know, like you go to Egypt and then you head west through Libya and you go 10 days. Then he says, what you find are these people called Atlantians and they’re, they, they say that they’re, um, you know, the remnants of a, of a old society.

And they’re really weird. Um, and they’re, they go all the way to the base of the Atlas mountains, um, and the Atlantis that they live on top of salt piles. Uh, they, um, don’t dream. Um, they have names, but they refuse to write them down. Uh, they refuse to Chronicle their history, uh, which is weird. Um, especially for this time, uh, they’re vegetarians.

So, and this is in the desert, but they’re vegetarians, so they won’t eat meat. Uh, and they don’t dream. So, so they’re really goofy people, but he actually uses that word Atlantians and he tells us, and if you look at the Western Sahara and then you look to the north, the Atlas mountains, and by the way, the king of Atlantis was named Atlas.

So, so right in that area, we’ve got these Atlas mountains and then we have a different person, a different historian telling us that the people that called themselves Atlantians remnants of them was still around, you know, in 500 BC, uh, right. Where we would expect them to be, if, if, uh, you know, uh, this, this was the city, it got wiped out and now it’s many, many years later.

Um, so that’s hugely interesting. And then the other thing that corroborates, this is this thing called the peer re map, which, uh, you, you know, I know you’re into this, so you probably have you read Graham Hancock. oh yeah, definitely.

[00:29:38] Jeremiah: Yeah. And I’ve listened to, ’em a bunch. And, uh, I know about the map and there’s some other maps too.

I think Charles Hapgood had

[00:29:45] David: a map too. Yeah. Well, Hapgood started with this map. Um, and, and yeah, so in 1995 and Graham Hancock’s book fingerprints of the gods, uh, he kind of opens the book with this map. It’s a very famous map. It’s, it’s a real map. We know it’s, you know, historically, uh, real, it was created by, in the 15 hundreds, early 15 hundreds by, uh, an Ottoman navigator named Perry.

and what he does. He commissioned, he wanted, um, the cartographer or the map maker to go find all of the ancient maps they had and put ’em all together into one map, reconcile the whole thing, cuz you know, and this is we’re talking, this is like 1530 ish. Uh, so this map is produced and, and theoretically right, Columbus sealed the ocean blue in 1492.

Right? So we’re only, we’re only two generations away from the founding of the, uh, the discovery of the new world. On this Pree map, it shows and the interest has always been on the left hand side, which shows the new world, uh, north America and south America in, in seemingly more detail than, than could have been possible even within a hundred years of when the map was made.

And then on the bottom, it seems to show Antarctica without ice. It seems to show the continental Ridge. Um, the shelf, the continental shelf below Antarctica, if, if the oceans were lower and they would’ve been lower in an ice age. And, and we know even today, sometimes there’s more ice on the north pole.

Sometimes there’s more ice on, on the south pole and, and it’s fairly accurate. It’s disputed people. Don’t like, that’s what it says, but it, you can, you can not like it and have that be your argument, but it, it sure does look like that’s what it it’s showing. Um, no one’s ever bothered to look on the right hand side or when they look, they, they dismiss it.

It’s it’s cuz the right right hand side has Africa and it’s, it’s the damnedest thing. We’ve all been staring at this for 500 years. You go look at it when, when we’re done there. If, when you look at, uh, Africa on the right hand side of this map, there’s a elephant big elephant. And then inland there’s this kooky little city surrounded by a ring of water.

And it’s exactly where the R hat structure is on a modern map today. Yeah. What kind of coincidence is that? Well, kind of, it’s not, it’s IM it’s, it’s impossible. It’s impossible. You, you can’t, you can’t line up all the measurements that Plato gave us that fit this place. Uh, the 345 miles inland. No, no, no one ever brings that up because it’s inconvenient.

It can’t be the Bimini islands or it can’t be, um, uh, whatever Santorini. It can’t be any of those places because they’re not, there’s not enough land. Um, but there is enough in west Africa. And, and then on top of that, all these other things, you know, start to line up and, and on top of that, we have a, a city surrounded by a ring of water on a map that, that also shows the water level below, uh, the continental shelves and Antarctica.

I’m not making it up. And there it is, you know, again, and I tell you, you cannot like it. And you can, you can argue a different position, but that doesn’t make this invalid. It, you know, it it’s real. And on top of that, and then when you, then you add it all up and we mentioned, I mean, some of the things that, that Jimmy’s gone over, but just to, to, to rattle ’em off, you know, all the dimensions are supposed to be a 50 stadia long, uh, canal that was dug from the outer ring to the, to an inner Harbor in this thing.

Well, that’s 5.8 miles. Guess how far it is from the outer ring to the, the, you know, the inside 5.8 miles. So, so we have the radius of this thing. It said that there were mountains to the north and it opened to the south. Well, this thing has mountains to the north and it opens to the south, um, you know, and just, it just goes on and on and on and on like that.

Uh, and I, when I did in the book, I, I, I very meticulously go through all this. It matches what Plato said, 99.3, 2%. Dang. Yeah. 99.3, 2%. It doesn’t conflict with anything we know about history. We don’t have to push agriculture back. Matter of fact, agriculture around was around for 400 years before this place.

We had go Bagley Tepe, which everyone knows about, which is the exact same time period. And it shows advanced, you know, advanced hunting, hunter gathering civilization. So we know people could, could, could take this leap. Um, a, another Greek historian heist, independently mentions Atlantians in the exact same place.

We have maps built, uh, off of ancient maps that show this place with a city on it, surrounded by water in the middle of the desert. We know this AARA was green, you know, and it just goes on and it’s just, it just all fits. It’s just, it just fits. So, yeah, I mean, so I wrote a book

[00:34:19] Jeremiah: yeah. I think a lot of people have this misconception because of today, like, um, the Sahara’s like desert and.

Egypt is the old desert, but like they say, there’s researchers that say that, you know, back when they were like relevant, like in the beginning of time they, um, had, you know, lush greenery, there was a lot more water there. And especially around the pyramids, there’s even theories where water went all the way up to the pyramids and they were kind of like hydro-electric dams or some, something like that.

So mm-hmm, , it’s just, you gotta like, kind of. Take out what you’ve been taught and look at it for what it

[00:35:03] David: is . Yeah. And I’m familiar with that. I try and stay away from that kind of stuff. I try and because not, not that I don’t believe or, or, or, or not believe, but you know, like, um, the guy who’s got the competing theorist named Randall Carlson, he’s good guy.

Everyone likes him. I’ve listen, I’ve watched this stuff and listened to it. He’s done a lot of terrific, terrific research. Um, matter of fact, I think he’s built a good case that more was going on in this time period than we thought. He, he, he thinks it’s the Azo islands and he’s got a very complicated geological explanation for that, that I won’t, um, uh, go into.

Um, but I forgot my point was gonna be shoot. Uh, it escaped

[00:35:38] Jeremiah: me about the, uh, lost, it was more greenery and

[00:35:41] David: water and all that. It was. But, but, but yeah, but to have the greenery in this area for this time, period is not a leap. You can go to any historian or open any book anywhere, and it’s, it’s accepted fact.

So I think, and see, this is what I think, I think if we, oh, oh, my point was gonna be Randall will also say some goofy things. Like he believes in crystal energy and this and that. And I don’t know whether he’s right or wrong, but I try and stay away from that speculation. Cause I don’t wanna have to defend that.

It’s just like, well, the people ask me, well, what do you think caused the tsunami that, that would’ve destroyed the city. And I’m like, I, I don’t know. We can see it happen. The climate evidence. This younger dries thing. Have the visual evidence. Some people think it might be a common impact.

Um, it could be if, if the ice was really melting, the plate shift, you know, one shifts up and it creates, it creates the tsunami and all that. But, but I don’t know because no one knows and it’s probably not knowable. So I don’t want to have to Def I don’t wanna get into arguments when people say, well, it’s baloney because we know a comment didn’t impact Greenland at 9,600 BC.

Therefore this can’t Belan. So I’m like, well, whoa, I’m, you know, I don’t wanna associate, I don’t wanna mix associate, you know, these, these different things, not that. And I have my own beliefs on like where the pyramid power pyramids power plants. I actually don’t think so. I have a different theory on that.

I’m gonna put in, uh, my next book, but it’s just a theory, this stuff on Atlanta, isn’t a theory. Just data. Lining up all the data w and not speculating or taking in nonsense that, that, that is built upon the source material, just going to the source material and then looking and using the tools we have, cuz we live in a very modern world and we can, all of us can, you know, with Google earth, we can all look at the whole planet.

Incredible what we have at our fingertips today.

[00:37:24] Jeremiah: Yeah. And there’s a lot of, um, quacks, I guess I’ll call. ’em like a lot of, a lot of people like I’ve read, I forget where I read it, but it was in some book or something where they were looking for Atlantis and like the Indian ocean or uh, somewhere like far off from.

You know, was written with by Pluto. And it seems like people are just on a witch hunt to like, look wherever .

[00:37:53] David: Well, I have a theory about that. They, they have what they have something I don’t have, they have something called funding so someone is paying them for a month to go on a boat and, and float around the Indian ocean and scuba dive and go to beaches.

And you know, all these places, they look the Azo island, the, the Bimini islands, um, Santa Reini, you know, Greece, these are beautiful places. And so, yeah, if I, if I could get a TV, you know, TV channel or whatever, to, to, to spend a million bucks to send me around, put scuba gear on to, to point at rocks, into water and have stories, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

It’s got nothing to do with proven whether this is Atlantis or not, but, but it makes a TV show. .

[00:38:31] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely. So I’m assuming you’re not in the camp of thinking that Atlantas was actually a mothership and it blasted off .

[00:38:40] David: I am not, I’m not. Look, I look, I, I watch, I’ve seen every episodes of ancient aliens twice, at least twice.

So I am in this camp. But I’m being, I’m trying to be very disciplined and rigid, um, when it comes to Atlantas, uh, because I think it is real and I don’t think we need that other layers of speculation on top of it. Cause I think it just, it, it confuses things now people like to dream and all that. But what I think what I, I mean, if you think about it, you ING thing I’ve said, and we know there are people in the area, we found the stone tools and stuff.

Um, if, if I were a caveman or, you know, whatever was going on in at 9,600 BC, and when I got tired of dragging my wife around by her hair and eating pork chops or whatever they did, and if I stumbled upon this giant lake with this beautiful island in the middle, in this wonderful climate where I could grow stuff and I didn’t have to kill animals, I, I could eat, you know, rice and bananas or, or whatever.

And it was easily defendable and stuff. Didn’t come up and eat me in the middle of the night. I think you have to explain why wouldn’t people have lived on this thing. Right? Why, why wouldn’t they? I mean, they they’re walking by it. Why wouldn’t they. Get in a boat and grow out to it. Um, and it’s a, it’s a beautiful place to live in, in some ways it, it enjoys some of the same benefits we have here in America, especially early on, right.

Cuz our, our two biggest, one of the reasons why we can defend ourselves is because we have the two biggest defensive buffers in, in the universe, the Atlantic ocean and the Pacific ocean. Right. Because it’s hard to get to us and this would’ve been the same thing. It’s, it’s, it’s many miles inland. It’s hard to get to.

Um, the other side of it is, uh, I think a thousand or 2000 miles, and then you hit the Chad and you hit the, this mountain range and then you’re over in Libya and Egypt. But you know, no, it’s tough to walk to it. It’s up a, a defensible river, you know? I mean, it’s just, it’s a great place. So it just makes complete sense that, that this and, oh, we also know the Dean, all the, we all know we’re all taught.

And again, this, this conforms, the current historical thinking that, that we all emerged. We all came out Africa, right? That that’s, that’s the, the theory. So if we came out of Africa and we know we have this beautiful. Gardeny place. Why wouldn’t we expect to find early civilizations that are good at agriculture in it?

It doesn’t make any sense to me. Why what’s, I don’t even understand how can you argue against it? You know? Um, the only thing I will say is it’s like, I, I always describe it, say Christmas, right? So, you know, when you were a kid and you had that big pile of Christmas presents and you stared at ’em for two weeks wanting to open them.

Right. That was the greatest time. Cuz you dreamed it could have been anything in there. Right. Then when you open ’em what is it? It socks. Right. And it’s, it’s, it’s a bag to wrap your school book in, you know, and whatever else. And it’s like, great, you’re happy. You know how to, you know, you know how to, to not show it, but it’s like, okay, now that I know what it is, it’s nowhere near as fun as dreaming about what it could have been.

And I think that’s part of why people don’t have a hard time seeing this for what it is. Oh yeah.

[00:41:34] Jeremiah: And this, this tails as old as time too, like you have. All these TV shows and movies like the cartoon movie Atlantis, I think it was actually, yeah. And then Stargate, Atlantis and all these things that like, you know, fantasize it and put images in people’s head of like, you know, this fantasized version of what it really

[00:41:59] David: was.

Yeah. And you go on the internet now and you search where is Atlantis and it says a Bahamas and it shows you a picture. you know what I mean? I mean, yeah, no, it’s like, it’s been, it’s been beaten to death. That’s just the only term I know how to use. Um, and people are skeptical now when they hear anything about it, because almost everyone that has said anything about it has either been an at an ad, uh, denier, an avid denier or, uh, an avid avid maker, upper of fantasy stuff.

Right. So, yeah. So

[00:42:25] Jeremiah: here we. . Yeah. And I’m not gonna lie. I do like to delve into the fantasy stuff too, but sure. I try to stay grounded, but it would be cool if there was like an ancient, advanced civilization with like lasers and UFOs type craft and we’re able to do whatever

[00:42:45] David: well at, at, at the, uh, at the danger of exposing my ness, I, I think Tia WinCo and some of the places you went in Peru bear the marks of a much more advanced and older civilization in their foundations, um, than, uh, than what we found in, in the Western Western Africa, Western Sahara.

Uh, but you know, they, you know, they’re all related. I, I, you know, we, we have the story of Atlantis. I’m not sure that Atlantis was the center of the world. I, I, I truly do think, you know, when you look at what was going on more in the Pacific and what was going on around Peru, especially, I think there’s, there’s a lot of interesting stuff that was going on there too.

If that makes sense. .

[00:43:25] Jeremiah: Oh, yeah, definitely. And, um, I don’t know if you’ve heard of a guy named Michael challenger. No, no. So I’ve followed him for a long time and I actually reached out to him to be on the podcast and he said, contact him back in October, cuz he’s opening some small town and south, South Africa.

And um, so he’s from South Africa and he did a lot of research in his area where he was and he found Adam’s calendar. And like it’s these stone circles in South Africa where, um, nothing was supposed to be like that back in the time that these were created, like people weren’t supposed to be sophisticated enough to create these structures or whatever they are.

Um, he has theories obviously, but um, yeah, it’s called Adam’s calendar and. Maybe that was like a precursor to the whole Atlanta’s thing. If that out Africa theory is correct, as far as

[00:44:28] David: the mainstream. Well, yeah, Southern Africa has, I mean, Southern Africa has many, many, many, many GE I don’t wanna say geological, what things made outta rock, you know, uh, that look really, really, really old, uh, and seemed to be suggesting, you know, uh, I I’m trying to not use the word advanced, but seemed to be, uh, suggesting something substantial was going on, you know, around the same time period or maybe even before, uh, yeah.

In South Africa, especially the, um, the east coast, uh, around the tip and then up by, uh, Madagascar, all of that. I know. And I’ve seen some of it, um, very interesting. Yeah. Rock formations and, and things that really tie into arche, astrology and, and all of that stuff. . Yeah. And I wonder

[00:45:15] Jeremiah: if at some point, um, maybe before our recorded history, if there wasn’t some type of global civilization where they were kind of all working together and had like all these trade routes and cuz it’s just seems weird to you get like Mack heads in south America that don’t look like they’re from there and all these other stories of like people that don’t look like the people of that area, but yet they are in contact with that.

And I don’t know something to me just doesn’t add up it’s like there’s more to the history

[00:45:54] David: than we know. I, I think so. I, I, I think, and, and one reason why I think if, if, if this place being Atlan. Mainstream, whatever that means. If we acknowledged, you know, what it seems like there’s overwhelming circumstantial evidence.

Now that that stuff was gone. The, the big thing, and I’ve been to, um, Peru, I even went, I went to the, the Dian gap and there’s, uh, pet Lipson there, way in there. I mean, it’s a brutal place, but I’ve seen those. I’ve seen the, the, I’ve been to a lot of the ruins in, um, uh, in Mexico. Uh, and I’ve, I’ve looked obviously millions of pictures and videos of other places in the world.

And I agree with you and I don’t know what it was, but they were doing something. I, I don’t know what, but they were, they were doing something. And there’s a lot of commonality, especially when you start to look at the arche astrology component of this, where a, a lot of the. You know, rules or, or I don’t know how to describe it, but, you know, they, they, they would align things to stars.

It seemed like what was going on in the sky was important to civilizations all around the world that have been lost to us. Um, now I have a theory on it, but again, I, I try not to say it in my theory, cause I don’t want people to criticize or attack a theory and then, and then, and then bring that over to Atlanta.

So I’m, I’m gonna put a lot of my theories in, in a second book. Um, but I think with Atlantas, I think we don’t find some things that we wanted. So here, here, I’ll speculate on one thing. Um, and I think Egypt supports this, I think, uh, Tua NACO, um, supports this, I think, uh, uh, what we found in Western Africa supports this, I think whatever was going on at this, this end of the last ice age, I think it was in, um, a civilization that knew they were on the, this planet and could get around it.

I’m I’m trying not to say the word advanced. Um, but I don’t think writing was that important to ’em. I, cause we don’t find a lot of writing until after this cataclysm, when you go to Egypt, then you look, you find all these, these huge megalithic base stones that a lot of their temples and structures are built on.

And, and the bigger this stone, the less chance there’s gonna be hieroglyphics or Petri glyphic are anything on it. It’s it’s the later stuff. Um, that, that seems to have all the writing. Now, my theory, so I’m gonna specul I’m get myself in trouble. My, my theory is that Atlantis was real. It got wiped out and there a lot of people survived and they were like, uhoh.

Um, you know, and maybe somehow they knew this is, was gonna happen again. So they’re like, you know what, we’re gonna have to start writing stuff down. and, and I think after Atlan is when a lot of the megalithic buildings started. Cause I think they said stuff like, you know, if, if the earth, if we’re have these kind of earthquakes, we need to build something that is so big, uh, that it survives these transitional periods that this planet goes through.

And I think that’s why you get things like the pyramids, which are ridiculously big. They’re too big. They, they only make sense if there’s something we don’t understand about ’em um, I don’t think I personally, yeah, they’re not tombs. No, they’re not tombs. They’re absolutely not tombs. I, I, I also, I personally don’t think they were power plants or water processing plants.

Um, and one of the questions I I’ve run to people that ask and I say, oh, You know, have we found pipes? I mean, are there billions of pipes coming outta these things? You know, so I don’t, I don’t what I think they were just to go and get myself in trouble. I think the idea was whatever happens on this planet is so frigging awful that almost everything gets destroyed.

So the thinking was build something that a later people will find and be interested in. And B all those chambers that look like sarcophagus chambers, but we’ve never found bodies in. I think that’s where they tried to put their records because, you know, if, if it’s, cuz if it’s heat or if it’s water or if it’s whatever, you know, you wanna try and preserve that knowledge through the transition and just, and cuz when you look at those tombs, the, uh, the stone, it’s like a foot thick and some of ’em are like three or four feet thick.

Why would you do that? Well, because that stands a good chance of surviving and, and they’re airtight. So if it went under water for a while and I, I think with the pyramids, when you look at that system, I think it’s a drainage system for when the water came up. And then the water went down cuz that’s really what it’s doing is getting the water out of the thing so that, you know, it would, it would, um, be something that people they didn’t get to.

They, they could Rege the records cuz now we have writing and then they could try and keep that, you know, keep the, the, the knowledge between getting wiped out. But I have no proof for any of that. That’s just what I think from all the reading and stuff I’ve done and it’s got nothing to do with Atlantis.

So if you don’t like that theory, it’s got nothing to do with my theory on Atlantis. My theory on Atlanta. No, no we’re going, yeah.

[00:50:23] Jeremiah: Yeah. This is just, we’re going down some rabbit holes, but it’s all good. It’s all good. Yeah. Um, yeah, I like talking about that stuff and they do say that there, they think there’s a hall of records under the Spinks or something.

So it’s definitely possible that they tried to put all the knowledge that they had and then they had the. Library of Alexandria that burnt

[00:50:44] David: down, or I was just gonna say destroyed here. Here’s what happened. It’s it’s the most tragic frigging thing. So the records did survive and Egypt is clearly a really old civilization.

And I think Graham Hancock and those guys got a lot of this. Right. Which is for some reason, the older, the, the construction, the more advanced it seems, um, I think the records survived to a degree and then they decided to put ’em all in the library of Alexandria and then they got, then they burned down so it was awful.

Yeah. Right. Um, and when you, when you study ancient Greek and I’ve taken, I I’ve taken the academic courses on it and I’ve, I’ve done a lot of readings. This idea of cataclysms was, was no Plato even mentions it. He mentions it in the laws, which was his last big work. And he says, look, everybody, you know, we know that periodically, this whole thing gets wiped out.

Anyone disagree with that and was like, nah, we know, you know, so it was part of the cultural knowledge that has been lost to us. Oh, just over the past couple thousand years.

[00:51:39] Jeremiah: Yeah. That’s one thing that I noticed, uh, right away when I was in Peru, looking at the ancient structures and all is like, people definitely had a super fixation on the stars and the planets and the heavens, and they knew something was going on.

It’s almost like they knew that they could figure out what was going on on earth based on what was going on in the sky. And you see it in the, hear it in the Bible too. They talk about signs in the sky and all that stuff.

[00:52:11] David: So here is if you were trying so like, and this is the experiment that I do with people.

So let’s say that you and I, we know tomorrow it’s over. Right. And, and some people will survive, but you know, no computers is all wiped out. We, we wanna try and tell ’em so they can be ready the next time. How do we tell ’em we can’t, we can’t use writing cuz they won’t be able to read it. Um, so what do we do?

And, and the one thing we would have would be the. it’s, it’s the one thing we have. Um, and if you look there, there’s, when you go back and I found, I found this map, someone did, I I’ve gotta re-verify it. Cause I haven’t verified it, but you line up all of these, um, ancient disasters and they start to line up to the transitions between the Zodiacs.

So there, there is, there is a rhythm to, ’em also this thing called astrology, which, which is now kind of, kind of viewed as nonsense, right? It used to be astrology and astronomy with the same thing. The, the only astronomy, the, there is only one sentence that started the whole thing. And it’s what you just said.

It, it is so close to what you just said is that the stars impact the fate of man, meaning mankind. Right? So if we, if we, if we could get that message across and have a bunch of stuff in the ground, that’s trying to tell you when it was made, so you could try and you know, a clock, right. You know, how, what else would you use?

It there’s nothing else. That’s the only thing you could do. Um, and they’ve done it. Y yeah. Yeah. Cuz then you

[00:53:42] Jeremiah: have go Beckley Tek, like you talked about. Um, and everyone that I’ve heard says that it was intentionally buried. It, someone intentionally buried it. So it’s like they knew something.

[00:53:55] David: Yeah. I think that’s been disputed a little bit.

That was the initial thought, um, that it was intentionally buried. The truth is they don’t know, they’ve only excavated like 8% of it or something or, I mean, I mean around 10%, um, plus, or minus a couple percent, uh, so it could have been buried. It also could, you know, one of the things we see, you see this in, um, Tico, you see it in, um, the, the rich hat structure, you see it all over is when these delusions happen, whatever they are, they tend to mix water and land tends to mix, which makes mud.

So everything tends to get covered in mud and gets buried a little bit. Um, so that could have happened there. I, I know that they intentionally buried at theory. I, I, I don’t, I’ve, I’ve heard the argument and I’ve seen the evidence for me. It doesn’t, I don’t have anything to dispute it, but it also doesn’t make, doesn’t make sense.

One, one of my theories is, you know, we can’t subscribe idiocy to ancient people just because they’re ancient people, so they can’t be stupid. So how would people who kind of have some agriculture, but it’s still a dangerous world. Why would they spend six years toting dirt up a hill to bury this amazing place?

Maybe they did. I, but I mean, you know, I just don’t know.

[00:55:07] Jeremiah: Yeah. I don’t know either, but there’s also another thing I’ve been hearing about recently and I don’t know a lot about it, but I just wanted to bring it up is the whole thing of like mud floods and this, I forget the name of it starts with a T like tar tartar or something.

Um, I dunno, but supposedly it’s a. Whole lost civilization of time that happened between like, I don’t know, ancient Egypt, Greece, and, and like, you know, current time, like the dark ages or whatever. I, I don’t know that much about it, but I just heard, I just didn’t know if you heard about it or not. No.

[00:55:51] David: Although I’ve just recently started watching the Y files. I do watch the Y files on YouTube. Have you ever heard of that? W H Y I don’t know who this guy is. He’s, he’s doing very well. It’s very, very popular. He’s been doing it for years. Um, he had a video out that said, uh, the dark ages were faked. Like really it’s only the 17th century cuz they, when they fiddle with the calendar, um, I mean I’ve heard, you know, I’ve heard everything, uh, and some of it kind of makes sense.

Um, but you know, we talked earlier, Brian Forster or Forster, I, he spells his name a little funny. Um, but you know, he, he has said a lot, but what I like about him is he just walks around with his video camera. Yeah. And he just records everything, um, in Peru, in Mexico and all that. And it’s just like, when you just watch and I watch at least a half an hour, his stuff every day, just to, not even with the sound up, just to see everything.

Cause I can’t get all over the world and see everything. I don’t have the money. Um, and it’s just, it’s just amazing. It’s just amazing. What’s out there. Yeah. But I, but I don’t know. The only thing I do know is the rich a structure is Atlanta’s , that’s all I know.

[00:56:53] Jeremiah: the rest of it. I don’t know. So if, uh, people want to get ahold of you and your book or whatever, how can they go

[00:57:01] David: about doing that?

Yeah. Go to the publisher website. The publisher is frequency 99. So it’s frequency nine, And they’ve got, uh, I, I have a, a producer I guess. And I, I have, I have people and, and they, they, you know, and there’s emails up there and stuff and, uh, you can get links to the book links to me, uh, and, uh, that, yeah.

Frequency 90

[00:57:24] Jeremiah: And I’ll put it all in the, uh, show description as well, so they can get there fast and appreciate that. So, in closing, uh, any last things you wanted to say about Atlantis and your book?

[00:57:36] David: Um, you know, the only thing I would say is, uh, go into it with an open mind. Um, I, I do think the book is pretty good.

Um, it’s gotten decent reviews. Matter of fact, it was ahead of one of Graham Hancock’s new books for like a month when it first came out. So I did nothing but drink champagne and, and throw myself parties. It no longer is he has what they call staying power where I don’t. But, um, it’s, it’s a very approachable book and it just simply all the book does, it says, here’s what Plato said.

Let’s pull it apart. apply. come up with some rules. Like we, we gotta believe what he said, and we gotta put this in historical context. We gotta find corroborating sources and then we gotta be able to verify everything. Um, and it just makes it creates requirements. just goes through and walks through each one.

And by the end of the book, you’re like, Yeah. And the reviews I get on the book, um, they’re not all good. I’ve got, I’ve got two. The worst reviews I got are three star reviews, which are still really good reviews. And the both of them are just the, they’ve almost say the same thing, which is the guy who wrote, this is a pompous ass who probably can’t sign a check much less finished or sentence, but by God, by the time I got done with the book, I think, I believe he found it and he makes a good case.

So I mean, that, that’s like the best compliment I could have, which is I don’t like, I don’t like the guy. I don’t like what he wrote, but, but it’s compelling, you know, by the time I get to the end of it, uh, you know, when they say I was a skeptic when I started, but I’m done like, yeah. I mean, there it is.

And the other thing I do do in the book is I lay it all out. So you don’t have to listen to. To come to reach the same conclusion. Everything I say is, is, is either provide you in the book or you can go find it as an historical source or, or you can look at the pictures and the maps and Google earth, and you can do the measurements yourself and you can reach your own conclusion.

Um, and, uh, I I’ve, I have people that don’t agree, but they it’s not because they disagree with what I did in the book. They, they don’t read the book, they don’t like this answer. So they, they skip the proof and just don’t like it, you know? Um, and, uh, which is fine, that, that that’s that’s, I mean, this is a goofy topic, right?

So everyone, everyone has, they, they believe what they believe. Yeah, I know like

[00:59:41] Jeremiah: Randall Carlson, like you said, he thinks it’s, uh, somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic. Yeah. Or like right off the coast of Africa. I forget

[00:59:50] David: exactly where, but he thinks it’s the a was I actually, I added after the book came out, I added an appendix.

Um, because I didn’t quite realize I, I, I was step with this book. I was stepping into a conversation that had been going on for quite some time. And there’s basically five criticisms that he lays out, which, and I put ’em all in the book and then I, I, I tackle each one. So by the end, I actually think his criticisms are actually strengths that, that support this place.

Number one. And then number two, I, I tell everyone. It, it doesn’t mean the, a wars weren’t part of the kingdom and that everything he said and found could still be true, but there’s no round city there with concentric islands of 345 miles inland. And that are it’s bigger than Libya and Africa. You know, it doesn’t mean all the requirements, um, of being the, the capital, but it, but he’s made a good case that some was going on there, this, that it supports this.

So they, they don’t really conflict, even though he, for some reason, decided to take an adversarial approach to this particular answer. Dunno why, whatever, just, you know, come see himself. Yeah. And there’s also

[01:00:50] Jeremiah: a lot of like sunken cities all around the world too. Cuz when the ice age was in full force, obviously the sea levels were lower and you find cities off of like India and Japan and probably south America and even America.

Yeah. Um, We haven’t taken the time or the resources to explore at all. Um, or they purposely hide it from

[01:01:16] David: us. Yeah. I, I, I think that, I think some of it is purposeful, although some of it is just arrogance on the part of, you know, I got into a big argument just, just recently with, um, a couple academic historians, nice people.

Um, and I basically said, look, you know, the professionalization of, of, of being a, um, uh, you know, someone who studies history as a profession, uh, is great in all, but, but what happens is over time, people vest in their views and then they fight change because the change might undo the thing that made them.

Right. Uh, so, you know, so, so we have these people that consider themselves the stewards of history, historians. Who are vested in it being the history they learned and have been talking about versus processing new things. That’s why I go vaguely Tepe. It’s it’s like the Rosetta stone for all of this. No one can deny it exists.

Everyone says it’s there. And then you ask ’em well, how, how does that fit? And they go, we don’t know, it’s, it’s anomaly.  Not an anomaly. you know, a thousand acre, massive prehistoric neolithic site. we gotta have, we need to have an answer for it. And they’ve actually found lots of other tepees apparently, um, that are out there, some dating, even older.

So, you know, I think, and you and I were talking just to wrap it up with, with total CISM, uh, you know, from, from my standpoint, I mean, personally, what I think is that this cycle has been going on way longer than we, we would be horrified, be like we were in a horror movie. If we understood every, you know, three to.

Uh, to 12,000 years, this planet something terrible happens. And then it takes thousands of years for people to come back. Um, but I think that’s been going on for, for very, very, very long time. Um, oh, the other thing just to close everyone says, well that, and it can’t be because we know we find that people we’re living in caves, it’s like, yeah.

After one of these big thing after daily, if it happens to us and we survive, we’re gonna head for a cave too. That’s just where you start back. Right. It’s just, it’s, it’s it’s base. Um, but yeah, so, so yeah, I think, I think it’s going on for a very long time. Uh, and I think this planet is probably a nightmare in the long run, but I think it’s okay for us now.

I think, I think, you know, or, I mean, you look at all these cycles, there’s nothing coming up. I think in our lifetime, some people argue 2050 and stuff, but I mean, I, I don’t see it necessarily. Um, but who knows, you know, you can’t predict the future.

[01:03:38] Jeremiah: Yeah. There’s definitely something there. I totally believe that there’s been law civilizations.

I mean, you can have. Works from like Graham Hancock and, um, trying to think of some other ones, uh, Michael challenger and, uh, Michael Kreo, who does forbidden archeology and all that. There’s definitely something Robert, Robert

[01:04:03] David: Bal, um, whoever the guy, I forget the guy’s name. Who found, who, who said the Springs was probably water.

He’s very famous. I can’t I’m I’m I’m bad. Oh yeah. Robert Shaw, Robert Robert Shaw, the whole list. Pretty much. They all wind up on ancient aliens. They, they cycle through ancient aliens at some point. So just look at that roster, but yeah, no it’s and ancient aliens is just fun, but no, there’s lots of people who’ve done really good work here.

Um, and I think the evidence is overwhelming at this point that, that, that our history is much older than we. oh, yeah, for

In Conclusion

[01:04:34] Jeremiah: sure. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on and speaking with us about Atlantas and your book. And even when we got a little off track, it’s still a lot of valuable information.

[01:04:45] David: look, it’s fun.

I tell it’s people are as passionate about stuff like this as they are about politics, but we used to be able to argue politics and have fun. Now you can’t, you can’t even talk about it, but we can argue this stuff all day and it’s still fun and it’s passionate, it’s interest. It’s intellectually interesting.

Um, and just like your Christmas president. There’s a chance when you unwrap it, it’s gonna blow your mind and just, and just change, you know, your entire worldview. Um, which I think, uh, I think would be good. Yeah. And I

[01:05:10] Jeremiah: feel like it would be a disservice to mankind to not look into these things and not, uh, question things.

I think if you just stick to one viewpoint, one philosophy, then you’re just, uh, preventing. Possibilities cause if something happened in the past and we need to know about it, uh, if we just shut it off, then we’re gonna be screwed.

[01:05:38] David: yeah. Look, there’s been 23 species of humans that they know about there, there was 22 up until may of this year.

They just found the 23rd. The idea that we’re the first ones, 2000, 3000 years ago to figure out. You know, the, the, what a wheel is and, uh, and that kind of stuff. Just doesn’t, it doesn’t make sense. How, I mean, you’re talking hundreds of thousands or millions of years of people just doing what? Sitting on a tree stump and what were they doing?

You know, I mean, it seems built into us to, to organize in advance. That just seems to be part of who we are and, and to suggest that all the others that came before weren’t that, and suddenly we are, it just make, it doesn’t make any sense to me. Um, and there’s so much evidence that, uh, is out there that it just, I think it’s overwhelming.

I think, I think is obvious. Oh, yeah, for sure.

[01:06:27] Jeremiah: All right. Well thank you for coming on. I enjoyed

[01:06:30] David: it. All right. Jamara yeah, no, look, pleasure talking to you. We’ll have to do it again.

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Secrets of the Sasquatch

Secrets of the Sasquatch

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[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow terrestrials and welcome back. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of what if the wrong podcast. Today, we have an excellent interview with my boys over at Dockside media. They’re back to talk to us about their new documentary secrets of the Sasquatch. So we’re gonna get into all that good, big foot Sasquatch stuff, as well as some other things we’re gonna talk about and go over their filmmaking journey and other stuff.

I think you’re really gonna enjoy that, but first make sure to like, and review the show. Just lets me know you’re enjoying the content helps with, uh, keeping the show high on the rankings. If you could do that for me, I’d highly appreciate it. Also, you can go to shoot me a message. If you want to be a guest on the show, or if you just want to chat or send me any type of information, you can reach me on the contact page.

On the website. All links will be down below in the description. So without further ado, let’s get with these guys over here at doc side media, talk, everything Bigfoot, and remember question everything.


Hello, and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast? I’m your host. Jeremiah. I’m here with Tyler and Chris from Dockside media.

The soon to be epic and legendary production company, make the best documentaries. , uh, stuff that you would see on TV. So I’ll introduce him now. Hey, Chris and Tyler here. Hey

[00:02:18] Chris: Jeremiah. Thank you. Thanks for having us again.

[00:02:21] Tyler: Yeah, Jeremiah. Thanks for having us on the, what if the wrong podcast and yeah, dude, I, I cannot, uh, discredit anything you say that all sounded good to me.

Our tagline in fact, is dude Tyler here and Chris with Dockside media tr the dopest documentary production company, this side of the Milky way. Dig it dug ITG now, but let’s go check it. So yeah, dude, you, you, um, I think hit us right in the glove there with that statement, man, we’re trying to crank out interesting, informative, entertaining, and thought provoking documentaries, uh, about different paranormal and supernatural topics and our newest documentary secrets of the Sasquatch, uh, released July 5th on Amazon, apple TV, iTunes, Google play PlayStation and Microsoft, and, uh, Man, we, we love it.

It’s our third documentary so far, and we’ve been getting a lot of great feedback and we’re certainly proud of the work that we’ve done and the people we’ve interviewed and the places we’ve gone and the way all these stories and experiences are interwoven through Chris editing it together. Um, man, it, we’re just, we’re really honored to be here talking about this documentary, man.

Thanks so much for having us.

[00:03:42] Jeremiah: Yes. I’m uh, really excited to talk with you guys about it. I did watch it myself, um, with my fiance too. She likes watching everything as well and um, yeah, definitely high quality work again. I must commend you or is that the right word? Yeah, we’ll take it. We’ll take it. Yeah.

[00:04:02] Tyler: yeah, no, that’s great. That’s. Uh, I

[00:04:06] Jeremiah: almost said condemn you . Wow.

[00:04:09] Tyler: We probably deserve that as well.

[00:04:14] Jeremiah: but no, definitely high quality work. And, uh, like I said, in the intro, something you would see on TV and you guys are killing it and coming out with so many different, I’ve never seen someone come out with as many documentaries in such a short time.

So, and to have it all be quality too. It’s not, uh, we hustle yeah. Piecing ’em together. Yeah. It’s not like you’re being cheap about it or

[00:04:38] Chris: anything. No, I mean, we, we put the time in, we definitely move though. We hustle. I mean, dioxide media is just Tyler and I, um, who do all of the production now, obviously our movies are made because of the people we interview are, uh, so fascinating and have such compelling stories.

So, so much of the credit obviously goes to these people that we. Involved in our docs, but, uh, yeah, no, we’re hustling. I just, we’re just about done with the fourth one in plain sight. The intelligence community in UFOs sent Tyler a cut of it, uh, yesterday. So, you know, we have to do some tweaking and stuff, but that one’s done and that’s a banger as well.

Um, but were you here to talk about the Sasquatch, Jeremiah? So I got a question for you. Um, what’s your thoughts on the Sasquatch? Just gen general thoughts?

[00:05:36] Jeremiah: So, um, I actually just talked to someone the other day about this and, uh, we were throwing back ideas and I personally think that Bigfoot is a leftover hoed mm-hmm so like there’s different types of homages and.

Like, I know Lucy was one where they found the skeleton mm-hmm and, uh, different branches that we came off of. And I think they’re just left over from that, that survived by hiding in the deep woods and cave systems and different areas of the planet where people aren’t very populated and, um, they are all over the planet.

I’ve heard of ’em from south America type be and, uh, obviously America mm-hmm, , there’s some talk about some in the UK as well. Yeah. So yeah, that’s my thought processes. And then we talked about like their connection with UFOs, which we’ll get into in a little bit, but, um, yeah, I do. And I think a lot of them, uh, there’s massive cave systems around the world, and I think it’s possible that they hide out a lot in those cave systems too.

So that’s probably why we haven’t seen ’em too much, especially. Deep woods where, um, humans can’t really navigate too well. Mm-hmm unless you’re like crocodile Dundee or something. yeah,

[00:07:04] Chris: yeah, no, that’s interesting. That’s kind of the, the same place I land on the phenomena. If, if, if I was to have like a, you know, somebody said, what, what do you think gun to your head?

I would say, yeah, a leftover homage, like a gigantis type creature. Um, cuz the world is a big place, man. Like we think it’s small just cuz our lives are so small a lot of times, but the world is a big place and there are lots of places where people don’t venture very often and creatures in the forest.

Don’t like to be. I go out in the forest and you walk a trail and you just gotta think about how many animals are around you, that you’re not seeing, um, cuz that’s their ecosystem, their environment. They’re accustomed to that. They’re built for that. And so if there’s a creature that lives in these deep woods, I gotta think it’s got those abilities as well to hide itself from any kind of threat.

Um, but you know, our movie explores all different kinds of topics with Sasquatch. So we do have that alien connection in there. We’ve got a bunch of other, um, theories that are, are, are discussed and then experiences as well. So kind of runs the gamut of the whole Sasquatch. You could say there are secrets in it that we relay about the Sasquatch.

You could say that. Tyler would say that. And what’s Tyler , ,

[00:08:29] Jeremiah: I’m absolutely

[00:08:30] Tyler: saying that. I’m absolutely saying that. I thought mom was the word, and then you gave me the cue to talk. So yo man, I think that’s like our B WIC is, is, uh, kind of what, um, Jeremiah mentioned, you know, in the beginning about just this diversity of topics and, and being high quality.

And, and man, I feel like, you know, that’s what doc side media does is we, we really try our best to not set limits on what we can do or like, you know, be like, oh, well, so, and so only made can only make one documentary every six years or yeah, or so, and so, you know, has to drop a hundred thousand dollars into making a document.

Like we just followed our hearts and we was like, dude, we got credit cards and we can just. You know, between the helpful people and, and, and, you know, traveling, et cetera. Uh, we had like the equipment already. And so I just, I love, um, man, I like, I real, since we’ve been making these paranormal documentaries, I buy more into the woo side of things only because man, I feel like we really manifested us getting to this point on this podcast, just by the, uh, just, just by the hustle and by the joy and fun.

Like we, we like doing this. This is, I don’t know, man. It gets my heart pumping. I love going on these adventures and meeting these genuine people who had these genuine, just far out experiences, man, that I can’t explain. so it’s cool. Like prior to making these docs, I would’ve been in, oh, it’s probably just a leftover Sasquatch probably exists, but it’s like some, yeah.

Leftover like BI hominin or whatever. Uh, but yeah, I don’t know, after interviewing people like Sue Walker and, and, uh, um, you know, wouldn’t be shocked if there is some sort of interdimensional or extraterrestrial, um, piece to this, because like, uh, you had mentioned like sightings in the UK and it’s neat.

We were on a podcast, a pursuit of the paranormal and they had brought up sightings as well, and that they had, uh, thought and then had like a cool synchronicity when watching the film of, oh man, like this would explain. Sightings in a densely populated area that doesn’t really have like a ton of deep woods, like, you know, the, the, the us, or yep.

Certainly like to bed or, or in Russia or the south America, et cetera. Um, so it’s cool. I’m like, I’m definitely open minded. I wouldn’t be shocked if we found out that yeah. The reason for footprints appearing, but then disappearing, like into nowhere could be because of these, these, uh, interdimensional reasons.


[00:11:33] Jeremiah: definitely. Um, had heard, there seems to be some type of link between. UFOs and, uh, Sasquatch and seems like there’s some something there, either the UFOs or aliens are abducting them just like they’re abducting us and experimenting on them as well. Or they’re somehow in cahoots or maybe interdimensional, like you said, there’s definitely

[00:12:01] Tyler: potential for yeah.

Or maybe they’re like the rarest of the Pokemon. So they’re just study out, like you said, like studying, you know, it’s like, oh, well, that’s why they’re appearing near them. Um, you know, it was funny, one of the camp outs I went on for secrets of the Sasquatch and it ended up just being me by myself, uh, because the other, uh, person who, who Randy Smith is in the film.

And I, and I camped out with him later, but on this particular weekend it just happened to CA cancel and I’m like, ah, dude, I’m heading out anyways. And I just went out in the woods by myself, up near Centia this dope little ghost town in Pennsylvania. Um, and. yeah, dude setting up my, my tent, like in the dark at night, freezing cold 26 degrees.

Right. And I see this like UFO, like, uh, track across the sky stop and then start dropping, pause, start dropping, pause, start. And it was like, what? I try to get my phone out by the time I got it out. It’s down by like pass the tree line, but it was, it was just wild that I went out with the intentions of looking for Sasquatch and trying to have some sort of, uh, experience and ended up, yeah, seeing this, this UFO and then on another camp out, uh, the one with Eric Hubbard and Desiree Patton who are both in the film, uh, that one, we happened to see Starling, right?

The satellite train, cruise acrossed overhead. And it was super trippy. Like had I not seen a YouTube video before? I would’ve for sure. Thought we were being invaded by aliens cuz I know nothing manmade that can cover that much degrees of the sky. And then. You know, since it’s reflecting light, like it’s not illuminating any light or self illuminating, like it just, and it looks like, um, as it goes into the shadow of the earth, like, it looks like it just drops into a wormhole, cuz it just like is no longer illuminated, but so it just disappears like, yeah, like 20 degrees up the Skyway and it’s like what?

It looks like, like the fabric of space time is just ripped apart or something. It was um, yeah dude, it’s nuts. So, uh, yeah, there could definitely be a link between these UFOs and Sasquatch. I mean, that’s kind of my experience so far.

[00:14:15] Jeremiah: yeah. I like how you guys came at it in the documentary of different angles.

It wasn’t just one thought process. It was kind of trying to convey different theories. Cuz a lot of documentaries, they, unfortunately we all have biases and stuff like that. So they try to paint one picture. But in your documentary it was, you had different aspects and different ways to go about it. Like you had that one guy who was very like, well I think they’re real, but I can’t prove it then, you know, Sue Walker talking about them, dealing with extraterrestrials and then you had like the people who are like, oh yeah, it’s real.

It’s just a, you know, hoed or whatever. Mm-hmm so I like the different angles that you guys took on that

[00:15:01] Chris: one. Yeah. I mean, and that just speaks to the, the people because we Don. we don’t specifically, we just reached out to people who had experiences with Sasquatch. So we didn’t have a particular narrative in mind with any of this stuff, you know, besides like, what are your thoughts on Sasquatch?

What are your experiences? And so they all have their own experiences and sometimes, uh, those experiences line up. And so you see like a pattern amongst people, which is interesting. Um, and then other times, you know, there’s the, the other experiences that, that are just way out there and different. But what we like to do is trying to like give people, their stories, get them out there, and maybe something clicks with somebody up, somebody, you know, maybe something triggers in.

Them’s like, oh yeah, maybe this is a possibility. Um, cuz we’re not trying to like preach at people in that way. Do you know what I mean? Cause I’m not, I’m not trying to convince you that this is. Exactly what it is. We’re just trying to, to get people to open their minds a bit to the ideas, uh, that we’re presenting.

So, uh, I think that’s, again, the way we cut these kind of things by cutting around to different people, I think it just gets your mind kind of working about everything. And we, we don’t like stick with one person throughout the whole thing in one long, you know what I mean? Like dump. So you get different perspectives, you keep jumping around.

And I think that, uh, gets those gears moving, cuz you’re like, wait, I want to learn more about that. But now we’re on to this next thing. And then we come back, you know what I mean? So that’s the plan, at least.

[00:16:40] Tyler: Exactly. And we like to, um, like, like Chris had opened people’s mind and just like maybe generate some momentum because I feel like this is how these things get uncovered and discovered when people just feel comfortable.

Oh, generating dialogue. And just talking about this stuff, like dude just saw an article like. Something washed up on the beach, on a beach in North Carolina. I forget what park Rangers, et cetera, like founded or, or it happened to be like some like legitimate eco, uh, some ecological person or entity. And, uh, yeah, they’re asking the public for help identifying this unknown species.

Right. We’ve been, we’ve been using magnifying glasses and submarines and microscopes and like telescopes and just everything to like explore the earth. And here’s like this little tiny creature that’s dead. They’re like, we have no idea what, what this thing is. They’re like six inches long. There’s like a bunch of ’em or whatever, or a number of them.

Uh, so, oh dude, we just, yep. We, we hope we’re trying to like, um, just do our part to. Yeah. Just allow people or, or talk about these interesting and fascinating topics. And man, the things that people would’ve been talking about a hundred years ago, would’ve been absolutely. They would’ve been labeled insane today.

And, uh, you know, who knows what, what, like we’re talking about today that at one time was very fringe and kind of, uh, just, yeah, kind of had a stigma to it. Um, it’s dude, it’s neat that there’s a lot of different shows now and different Facebook and social media groups and people were being encouraged to re go out and seek these, um, experiences and report back about them.

And, uh, I think it’s a good time to be making this type of content and we hope that we’re doing like some small part to inspire people to just, yeah. Be curious, man. Just be curious about. The world around them in the universe. Cause I feel like there’s a lot more out there, uh, that will unlock in another 2000 years that our grandkids, grandkids, grandkids will be like, yo poppy, how did you not know?

You could just press this button and teleport from here to anywhere in the universe. You guys did it in harness quantum entanglement. We’re like, nah, dude, we didn’t know shit. We were, we were barbarians.

[00:19:12] Chris: I think our lives as humans are so short and like societies as a whole take so long for change to occur that like we don’t see it so day to day, but like 20 years ago, the world was a different place and people, these there’s ideas that were different and stuff like that.

Do you know what I mean? So like when you’re talking about these fringe topic, you are stigmatized a bit, but when we keep talking about ’em with the podcasts, with the movies, it becomes way less stigmatized. That’s how you get that slow churning in this acceptance of some of these ideas. I mean, let’s look at like the UFO phenomenon, like the governments now, you know, the UAP task force, all these things.

It’s like, I don’t know, 20 years ago, if it would’ve been unheard of, right. Like something like that. But now it’s just, well, people with

[00:20:07] Tyler: tin, foil, hats, exactly. Pre exactly. And sacrificing goats to try and get that to happen. Exactly. Thinking, oh dude, never in a million years. Well, we have people report to Congress.

Right. And like have to be accountable. Nobody. Right. Nobody saw that kind of now like talks of like possible like immunity and stuff. Yeah. It’s like, wait, what? So hold on. Now we might get some reasoning behind these. These phenomena, uh, and that people will be forgiven because well, it, whatever the whole world would’ve collapsed or something had, they tried to accept it at that time.

But now that we have VR and, and the metaverse, and that we can be doing these 10 80 P live streams, like it’s harder to yeah. Maybe contain that as a species. We’re just a little bit more open to like, oh dude, I, I don’t know. Most of the stuff we’re doing around here looks pretty magical to my , you know, peanut sized brain.

Like, I don’t understand how it all works. I just know that it works.

[00:21:14] Jeremiah: Yeah. Yeah. I kinda like the theory, um, that I’ve heard that remember in 2012, the world was supposed to end and the Mayan doomsday and all that stuff. Well, A lot of people are saying like, no, it wasn’t supposed to be like a cataclysm or like the end.

It was kind of like the end of an age. And now we’re shifting into a new age and it kind of kind of makes you think, because just think back from 2012 to now, like how much has changed, how much has come to light and how much stuff like this has become more accepted. And, uh, obviously there’s been some bad things too, but it just seems like people are more open-minded now than, than

[00:22:00] Chris: they used to be.

Well, and, and technology improves so quickly now and changes so quickly. So like, you know, cell phones now have amazing cameras in them. Um, and so like, there’s just, and there’s so many, so many more people who have them, so it it’s, you get all these videos of these QoS and stuff. It’s just harder to. , it’s not less hearsay anymore.

Cuz now there’s just tons of videos out there. You know what I mean? But you go back to the nineties and you talk to your uncle. Who’s like, yeah, I saw a UFO and you’re like, okay, uncle , I’m sure you did, but now you go on like YouTube and there’s like a million videos, you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s just a different world,

[00:22:43] Tyler: right?

Yeah, it is. And it just, how far out is it that, you know, we’ve got like maybe a reason for kind of the push towards disclosure and the government, uh, oversight and this kind of stuff is like, dude, we’ve got private companies going up into space space, whoever thought every, an everyday person, like not like, uh, you know, the government which we think of this massive entity or whatever, but like some everyday person generated enough capital.

to not only get into space, but drastically improve the method to get there. So it’s like, oh, well, dude. Yeah. Is it only a matter of time until whatever? Is there something on the dark side of the moon, right. Where, where, you know, private companies are now exploring out there or they’re harnessing, uh, asteroids and finding, just teaming with different various forms of like microbial life or something.

You know what I mean? Mm-hmm, like, I don’t know. I, uh, maybe it’s this push cuz it’s like, oh dude, what, you know, what typically happens is like, I don’t know whoever puts out the narrative first typically stick. Sure. So imagine like some really, really rich guy, whatever kind of has a holy grail of kind of what’s all going on with this and that they can shape it to suit their typically like capitalist needs where they’re trying to generate more money.

Um, Yeah. I don’t know. It’s just an interesting dichotomy, but the, the competition, whatever private company’s going up there. Like, I think it’s all good, man, because it, it forces government agencies, uh, to hopefully have to kind of be accountable for what they’ve seen and what do, what they’ve documented on radar,

[00:24:36] Chris: et cetera.

It honestly sounds like science fiction from like the late seventies, early eighties. I mean, like alien was like late 79 or something, but that’s about like a private ity who goes out and, and refines oars and stuff out in deep space. Uh, I guess the concern there is at what point does, like, these companies become more powerful than the government, right?

I mean, it’s probably already headed that way if not, it already is. Um, and then you have like your just like cyberpunk dystopian futures, where everybody just works for one or two corporations. And like, you know what I mean? Who knows though? But all that stuff is like, Like when you think about it, like, oh yeah, that’s kind of happening.

Uh, it was fun in these sci-fi movies, but it’s, it’s different in reality, but it’s still kind of happening.

[00:25:27] Jeremiah: Yeah. And a lot of, uh, a lot of conspiracies are actually turning out to be true now, cuz I always see like memes online that are like, Hey, uh, what was a conspiracy three weeks ago is now fact it’s like crazy.

[00:25:41] Chris: Yeah. World moves

[00:25:42] Jeremiah: fast. And then you have the whole, uh, you have the whole U uh, UFO. You have a documentary coming out on like UFOs and stuff.

But um, the whole fact that the government itself is actually. Releasing all this UFO documentation and saying, yeah, there’s a craft that we don’t know what the heck they are, what it is. And then you have like MI Kaku saying like, yeah, that craft moves like nothing we have on earth. And it’s kind of like it’s

[00:26:15] Chris: wild.

And that, that is deep into what in plain sight, the intelligence community and UFOs talks about, um, with the aspect of the government’s involvement in covering things up. Um, cause we have like Richard Doty in the docu documentary, John Ramirez, you know, these two people who worked for the government have insight into their behavior.

Um, Tom carries in there. Who’s basically the expert on Roswell. I talked to over 601st and secondhand witnesses, um, basically knows anything he’s in encyclopedia of Roswell. So it covers all that stuff and talks about disclosure. Um, I’m really excited to put that out. I wish we could get it out like tomorrow because it’s just so relevant to this moment.

But dealing with the distributor and stuff, there’s a delay, obviously. So we hope to have that out, you know, early winter at this point, but we’ll see

[00:27:15] Tyler: what, what press fall. What’s 70 days from today? Well, say we deliver the end of this week. What’s 70 add 70 days to the end of July. All right. So we got didn’t.

I didn’t sign up for math here October. Okay. Well, there you go. We’re still in fall we’re football season, dude, you can watch some football and then watch some aliens and some former intelligence officers, counter intelligence officers and just. These far people and, uh, to Chris’s point, yo, it was a really sick, uh, man, just serendipitous moment, like where we’re basically finished with secrets of the Sasquatch, which for the listeners is the one out right now on Amazon, apple TV, iTunes, Google play PlayStation at Microsoft.

Um, but we did all the camp outs, interviewed all the experiences interviewed Sue Walker. Uh, who’s a telepath and clairvoyant and medical intuitive. And, but I’m like Chris, like the whole time, we’re like, dude, we, we gotta get like an anthropologist. Mm-hmm we just, we need like an academic perspective. Um, and I, and dude, I’ll be dipped in shit if we didn’t line up an interview with Tom Carey for, in, for the in plain site, the intelligence community UFOs doc, and we record his interview and like afterwards, yeah, comes.

That he’s an degreed anthropologist and has just, you know, an academic opinion on Sasquatch. And we’re like, wait, what egg Todd, can you all right. Can we switch you over to this side? Can you go change your shirt? We’ll flip the lights and cameras around and we go and we’ll run, we’ll run another interview, uh, while we have you here.

And he was all for it. So it was just really cool, man. Cuz I don’t think the doc, I don’t know. It’s just not as well rounded. I don’t think it’s as good without the, his scientific, um, opinion. And it’s just neat and I love too, just the experiences and the hunters we got, we got people that lived in New Mexico, uh, tra fished in hunt in uh, West Virginia.

Um, we were in Western PA, Northeastern, Pennsylvania, and these are the type of people that like what I camped out with that have had, you know, uh, either one or multiple experiences. You know, like Randy Smith, for example, again, it’s freezing. It’s mid twenties starts snowing. We got a fire going. He’s the type of guy like, oh man, we gotta rearrange these logs.

Just bear, handing, picking up burning logs, just moving them around in this fire. He’s fishing to kill time bright. And it’s again, freezing like my, I have gotten mittens on and I’m by the fire trying to stay warm and he’s out there bare handing all this cold wet gear. And he’s just a tough dude. He’s like the type of guy like, oh, that was a Fox.

Oh, that was a raccoon. Oh, that was a squirrel up. That was a deer. Um, dude, like when he’s like I’ll dude, that was a Sasquatch. Like I, I would be inclined to believe him. There’s certain people who, who just, I don’t know, they have that innate ability. And I’ve also through like, I guess a lot of experience.

Man, like the woods is just in their blood man. Like if a, like if an atomic bomb drops around here, like I’m trying to find Randy dude. Cause I know Randy will be able to keep me alive out there despite 20 years of hunting, like for me and never getting a deer, I’m that type of guy, if I had that in my blood or DNA, I’d be Randy.

And know what all these sounds and all these things were, but no, I’m a knucklehead with a bunch of cameras and curiosity and interest in these topics. And so it, it was neat like for Randy and Alfred, like, and, and for Randy, I love that. He says, uh, and it’s like concluded in the trailer. Uh, just that like, oh, I always said like I’ve ever saw Aqua I’d run right at it.

Uh, but man, when I saw that thing, like I just, I froze like I couldn’t move and man, I like, my money would have been on Randy. Be the type of guy, just, yeah, like if he said he would run at it, I, I believe that he would run at it. He was, he was a tough. Tough character. Um, and just, yeah, knew the woods, like the back of his hands.

So it was cool. And Alfred Martinez, same deal. I could just tell, I mean, these guys eat, breathe, sleep, you know, uh, hunting and, and being out in the wilderness and Alfred having like an experience, you know, 20 years ago. And like it being that impactful that he is like chased and explored and, and tried to get more information and more experiences on Sasquatch for the last like 20, 30 years or whatever.

Like, that’s a, that’s crazy, you know, like that’s a super powerful experience man, to be like life altering. Um, and so, yeah, he was a very, just interesting and compelling individual

[00:32:17] Jeremiah: as well. Oh yeah, definitely. I liked the, um, like I said, I liked how you had some, uh, , I don’t know how to say it. I don’t want to like, like you had the eccentric side and then you had like the serious side and, uh, kind of all melded together.

And then it was up to the viewer to like, figure

[00:32:39] Chris: out what it’s the woo angle. And the more we do these docs, cuz when I, when we first started doing this stuff, the woo stuff, just never really stuck with me. Made sense. I’m like, I’m not a religious person, so I don’t have that strong of belief in spirituality, stuff like that.

But the woo stuff actually starts to make a lot of sense. Sometimes. Like we talked about like what would technology look like a hundred years from now? Like it’ll be mind blowing. It’ll be UN I won’t be able to fathom it probably right now, my current existence. And so that’s woo. Like, you know what I mean?

That’s just, we can’t understand it yet. Uh, so that there’s potential there. Do you know what I mean? That we just. There’s technologies out there from different species of life in this universe that is so far beyond us, that to us it’s magic. And so who’s to say at that point, right. Um, that’s the woo angle.

I think maybe the skeptic in me is limiting sometimes in these things where it’s like, well, it’s, I can’t imagine it in this current existence and realm. So it can’t be real, which I don’t know. Maybe that’s like, I’m saying maybe that’s just my limitations of my mind and not being open to those things, but the more we do these things, it’s getting a little

[00:34:01] Tyler: bit more open.

That’s what it’s all about. Yeah. And I mean, I would implore you like, dude, what, what does a million more years of technological evolution look like? We, we have no clue. Like, I mean, we can’t, our feeble minds can. We couldn’t even generate in the most far out sci-fi novel right now, or, or movie story we could not even possibly come up with what stuff looks like and how we can manipulate space, time, all these things at a whim, a million years from now.

And like how, I don’t know, conceded of us to maybe be like, oh, maybe there’s intelligent life out there in this really, really massively big universe nearly like, not infinite, but dude, like, I don’t know. It just keeps going and going and it keeps spreading right at like this speed of light kind of shit.

So, um, but like who are we to think? Oh dude. Okay. Maybe there’s stuff out there, but we definitely were, the first ones could be sent in. Yeah. And, and we were, I’ll be damn if we weren’t the, the best at advancing technology, like, and manipulating our surroundings with our and building stuff. And you being creative.

Like, I don’t know, dude, I, I wouldn’t bet money on, we were the first, uh, yeah. To involve like, uh, 10 or whatever, or that we were the most efficient at evolving. Like, so yeah, dude, I don’t know. And anything that’s out like above those parameters, they’re already doing some mind, all like just mind blowing stuff.

I wonder

[00:35:53] Chris: what that is in inhumanity, where it’s like that hubris of ours to think, like we have to think we’re something special, um, in this, in this existence, uh, I don’t know. Maybe that is a, a form of just a way to wrap our minds around the infinite nature of the galaxy, because it’s. it’s like, you’re saying it’s like, it’s unimaginable.

Like, just to think, like you see those pictures, the recent pictures that just came out are amazing. They look like a painting and you’re like, this is a painting, but what does it mean? , you know what I mean? Like hundreds

[00:36:30] Tyler: of thousands and it’s a painting of a grain of sand, right. At arm’s length. Yeah. Of the sky and all those spots are like galaxies.

Yeah. Right. With, and so you’re like, wait, what? Right. So it’s like, oh dude. Yeah. If you just keep zooming in, it just keeps going, bro. It keeps going. It’s too much. Our minds are. And who knows how many habitable planets are like, that’s crazy a grain of salt at arms length. And that’s what that dope, dope picture is.


[00:37:02] Chris: yeah. Yeah. But somehow we think we’re the only ones and all this was for us. And like, I just, I can’t subscribe to that. It’s there’s too much out

[00:37:10] Tyler: there. I mean, at least at least this side of the Milky way, as far as documentary. Oh, deduction of course would maybe subscribe to that. If you’re saying that in the tagline, this side, then we, it’s gotta be a possibility.


[00:37:26] Chris: think about the, uh, aliens somebody’s

[00:37:28] Tyler: out there. That’s better. They, I would love for them to prove it. I’m sure

[00:37:30] Chris: there’s like aliens on Zada Reticuli or somewhere out there. Who’s the doc side media version hypothesizing about the humans here on earth. You know what I mean? It’s gotta be happening somewhere.


[00:37:44] Tyler: it is. That would be funny. Nearly infinite. Exactly. Yeah. This, this whole conversation is happening at, in like elsewhere where Jeremiah is Dockside media and he made secrets of the Sasquatch, bro. And we’ve been running. What if the wrong podcast and just crushing it? You know what I mean? Like all these things have happened and so I love, uh, Uh, Tom Delong’s recent interview on Thete podcast where he like, brings up this thing about how like, time is not linear, man, that like past present and future is all existing right now, just at different frequencies.

And just hearing that is good for my brain, just to be chewing on and rattling. Right. It’s like, oh dude, that’s pretty wild. And is that why, you know, when Chris and I started this documentary production company, not, not even 12 months ago, like last August, right? Middle of August. And we have all like, and I’m like, Chris, man, we can get out five, six docs, dude.

I know we can, Chris, like, ah, dude, we can only do one, maybe two I’m like, God, dude. Like I could feel it though, man. We didn’t have plans for all these docs. We didn’t have all these topics, all these interviews. But for some reason when we started making these I’m like Chris dude, We gotta get this thing picked up for distribution.

It’s gonna get picked up and we need to get picked up by 10 91 pictures because they’re the distribution company that put out the phenomenon and just, we can, it can get it on Netflix and Hulu, blah, blah, blah. And dude, like, I don’t know. I don’t think anybody with, with half a brain would’ve ever bet on that coming true, except except me like Christ.

Don’t even think really like Kristen believed me. Tyler says he didn’t think it would happen. I’m just kidding. But like, so maybe, maybe it already did happen, man. Right? Like maybe that’s why I just felt so strongly to just keep moving forward. Dude, it’ll happen. Keep, make, keep filming these other documentaries.

I know you’re waiting to get picked up for that very first one you made, but don’t stop. Like it’s, they’ll get back to you. And I don’t know. And it just, it felt

[00:40:02] Chris: meant to, and that’s, and that’s where the ying and yang comes in through Tyler and I, because while. , I don’t necessarily always agree with him about like the, uh, willing into existence thing.

But I do subscribe to the, the fact that if you’re not making anything, you’re not working towards that goal. So as long as you’re working towards it, you, you can eventually get there. Um, and so we have that work ethic in each other. We might subscribe to it differently, but that, but it’s the same results, I think.

Um, so yeah, four, four down, we’re filming the fifth one this weekend, you know, going camping ghosts in the graveyard, pure pandemonium. We’re going to a haunted graveyard and pandemonium, Pennsylvania, and abandoned town, uh, lots of activity from what we are hearing. And we’re gonna be camping out there where you have a bunch of people coming along with us, or we’re gonna be doing a bunch of investigation stuff.

It’s gonna be hopefully interesting. It’ll be fun to say the least it will be. And

[00:41:02] Tyler: it’s, and. Man. I would just encourage other people out there listening and watching to be like, God, dude, we’re just regular guys. Like you can do this too, because here’s, what’s up. This will blow your mind even further.

We’re cranking out all these docs, Chris, over here, my man, dude, he’s running like just multiple podcasts. He’s got a new feature film, transient that he’s just casted and getting ready to start filming here in the fall. Um, you know, he does graphic design work. It’s not like Chris, all he does is he sleep and breathe making these documentaries.

Like he it’s, it’s just, it’s really cool, man. When people don’t limit themselves to what they think they can do, uh, I think they would really be surprised, man. I, uh,

[00:41:53] Chris: they just like Jeremiah, you know this, right? Like you, you have a full time job. Right. But yet you come and you do this podcast.

This is, this takes time and effort. How long have you been doing it for.

[00:42:04] Jeremiah: um, I’m think I’m on like eight months. There you go, man.

[00:42:08] Chris: It goes quick too. This time, next year it’ll be a year and a half and we’ll be on doc number 27. And you’ll be,

[00:42:16] Jeremiah: we’ll be back on your

[00:42:16] Chris: show. and it’ll be again, if you just keep going, man, like that’s but do you know how many podcasts read this before?

I don’t know the exact number, but like how many podcasts get like three or four episodes in and then that’s it that’s like the majority of ’em because that’s when it sinks in that like, oh, I have to put effort into this thing. It’s no longer, always fun. Like, it’s gonna be fun, but like, you actually have to try and you gotta keep going and it’s not there’s there’s ups and downs and you gotta push back the downs.

Uh, and the majority of people just don’t do that. So I commend you eight months. It sounds like. But some people will hear that and be like, oh, it’s not even a year, but dude , most people will not make it eight months and I don’t foresee you stopping.

The Grind

So yeah, I,

[00:43:09] Jeremiah: yeah, I was talking with someone the other day about, um, like synchronicities and like how there’s, um, I call it the godly force and it’s like, not like the secret where you just think things and they pop into existence.

I think you can focus on something, but you have to put in the work and then the God force. If, if you were religious, you wanna say, God it’ll help you. Or if you’re not whatever universal force, um, it will help you get through what you are trying to do. So like, for me, for my podcast, I, before I did that, I was doing a video game website and.

I was having such a hard time, like getting people to come to it and writing out the content for it and everything like that, everything just felt like so hard. And then I was like, you know what, I’m gonna scrap that. It’s not working out. So then I was sitting there and I was just like, you know what, I’m gonna make a podcast about like conspiracies and stuff.

Cuz I like always have been into them. Then I just started doing this podcast and just everything just fell in place and fell in line. Like I was reaching out to like my quote unquote dream guests. They were like, yeah, I’ll come on your show. And then, then I run into you guys and you’re from like my hometown.

There’s something there’s gotta be something there to that like is pushing me forward and keeping me going, cuz like you said, it’s a lot of work and people don’t realize, especially for your documentaries and stuff. There’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes. A lot of work put in that people don’t see.

so like for me to bring out episodes, it’s not like I’m just talking and then uploading a thing. Like I gotta edit it. Yeah. I gotta make sure it’s all right. I gotta book. Guess I gotta promote it on social media and stuff like that. And my podcast has grown a lot, but it’s also taken a lot of work and I think that’s why a lot of people just give up on podcasting after certain amount of time cuz work.

[00:45:17] Chris: I, I, I think a lot of people are result focused, meaning if they don’t get the result right away, then they’re they’re turned off. Well, I think what you have to do is enjoy the journey or try to, um, and it’s not always easy for sure. Cause I don’t, I mean, I’ve been doing my podcast for almost six or six and a half years now.

Um, and there’s so many times where I’m like, I gotta stop doing this. I just gotta quit, but I always keep going. And then there’s times where I’m like, ah, I love this. I can’t wait to do the next one. It’s all about the journey, man. Jeremiah is like, I’m out. You guys, I’m done. I’m leaving. he’s getting up.


[00:45:56] Jeremiah: He’s like, know what? He’s come to think of it. You know what? I actually,

[00:46:00] Tyler: it’s not for me. It’s not for me. I change my mind gaming chair. Yeah. I’m gonna start writing an article here. Uh, I hear websites so easier to build nowadays with square space. Do com uh, now,

[00:46:15] Chris: um, no, I had to let the cat scratch the door.

It’s all trouble, but it was kind, it was right on you. I like it. I like it.

[00:46:30] Jeremiah: But yeah, it definitely. I like to give people recognition because like you guys with doing your documentaries and stuff, like you guys put a lot of work and effort into it. It may not seem like that on the surface. Cuz people just watch the documentary and hear you guys on podcast and think it’s just, you know, all fun and games and stuff like that.

But yeah, you guys are

[00:46:53] Chris: actually out put in the words, mean, you know it too, like podcasting when people just listen, you’re like, oh yeah, it’s fun or whatever, but it’s, it’s a skill to like, come on and try and be charismatic and be talkative and keep the conversations going. I remember when I started my podcast six years ago, it was rough.

Had to edit a lot because I couldn’t keep the conversation going. Didn’t know how, I didn’t know how to like, naturally just keep talking. But as you keep doing this stuff, you’re like just can keep the conversation rolling and you don’t even realize it anymore. It’s just like a practice skill, I think.

Uh, so yeah, if you keep at it though, you get better at things. That’s how that’s what practice does. Right? So. And I think like going back to the documentaries, I think that shows, uh, I love conscious contact, full disclosure. That was our first documentary and go SA Gettysburg. I love that one as well. I think there was a step up in production value and I think we’re continuing to do that step up.

Like secrets of the Sasquatch has a lot of, a lot of different minor tweaks and things. We learned that we keep adding to our production values and it’s not like. It’s not like money, just like experience. Like, what if we did this next time? Like, I think that would improve the thing. Like, there was just like a simple thing of like, let’s add a gimble version to the interviews, this movement, slight movement.

It’s more engaging something we learned. We just practice it. Now we do, we implement that into our things. So, uh, now we’re in, in plain site and that’s, I’m like just, you know, just finished an edit on it. I’m like, man, this is, I think this is our best one yet. But I thought about that with the Sasquatch one.

So that’s the goal, right? Where every time we make something it’s our best one yet, because if it’s not, then I feel like we’re not improving and we’re not trying to get better at this stuff. Um, and that’s just how our, my mindset is, is to always keep, you know, working on this stuff, always improve your skills, always try and be a better person.

Um, so yeah, I don’t like staying stagnant. I mean, I think you can tell from doc IMIA by how active we are but yeah. Tyler’s hitch well,

[00:48:58] Tyler: unleash the beast. Tyler. No, I’m just coughing. I’m trying. I’m just trying not to cough, but yeah, no, I think Chris, uh, yeah, no, that was a great example, Chris, like you said, when you have nothing to say, but you just keep the conversation going.

Yep. For like five minutes. Right. Everybody just listened to that, but nobody has any idea what you just said. Yep. But but you did it charismatically. Exactly. Does bro. I’m just, I’m just, I’m just, I’m just teasing you, man. Um, no, it’s great. Chris and I dude, uh, it’s been really good for my life man, to have Chris in my life and to.

to form this company and, uh, man, just the ying and the yang. And it’s cool. I hope people know like, man as much fun, like it, it is work, but man, I’m on the other side where it’s like, oh dude, well, I think a lot of his perception because like, man, as I’m looking around like 70 pounds of a camera equipment, all my back, my shoulder’s falling off getting through airport, walking through airports, going getting rental cards, driving straight to Roswell.

Wake up, uh, you know, driving like four hours down to Roswell. I could wake up two hours later to like fly a drone at sunrise. So we get, you know, footage for, um, to plain sight. The inte like, I don’t know, people would think, yeah, man, dude, that does not sound like a lot of fun. You didn’t really get a lot of sleep.

And my whole time, just like. This is insane that I’m even doing this I’m in Roswell. The sun is rising right now. This is, this is what dreams are made. I’ll catch up on sleep later, like F this dude, this is some once in a lifetime shit. Then, you know, driving straight back, uh, to, to go to Sue Walker’s house to interview Richard Dody, like he met me that it, it was just crazy all these far out relationships that I formed in, in this short, uh, short period of time with these very genuine people.

So, I loved these experiences and like talking to somebody like Richard Doty, whose former air force office is special investigations, counterintelligence officer, like who just was tasked with going out. If people saw UFOs. Probably trying to get them to believe it was government crafting. Yeah.

Saw government craft, getting people to believe they were UFOs. Like, but that, wasn’t just some dude feeling like, oh, he should go do that. No, like that’s like his gen, his boss, whatever the government, like, this is what his job job is. His job description is to go do this and to go to UFO conferences and form these relationships to shape narratives.

Like dude, that, so when I get to meet these people, I’m like, oh dude, I I’m bread item, bushy Taylor. Like even on no sleep. I’m like my horse just don’t don’t don’t don’t don’t this is nasty, dude. This is so, so nasty. and I, uh, so like I hope people can maybe be like, oh dude, I, yeah, like sometimes it is work, but it’s sometimes how you look at it, man.

Like, you know, uh, I, yeah, it’s just sometimes how you look at things for sure. There’s times where say, like, I don’t idea. What’s an example. Say like, I, I go outside and I, uh, say I wanna go throw football with my brother. We’re outside. It’s hot out. I don’t care. We’re throwing toss and we’re having a good time.

I don’t care. It’s hot. My say my eight year old son wants to go out and throw football after like 10 minutes. I’m like, ah, dude, dude, dude, we should go. Like, but what’s different. I’m throwing football in both scenarios. Right? So like when I have those moments, it’s like, oh dude, I should just be thankful I’m out here throwing football.

Like, why what’s it Matt? Like, because the child is eight and I mean, he’s actually really good at catching, but say if your child like drops the ball a lot or something, you know, it can get yeah. Sometimes evoke feelings right. In people cuz we’re human. So I always just try and take like a macro yeah.

10,000 foot view like, oh dude, hold on. Like, why am I getting frustrated right here? Oh, because yeah, whatever, before he hits the ping pong ball, back to me for my serve, he like juggles it a couple times. It’s like, oh, well, bro, you were eight once two. That’s what your knucklehead did. So what does it matter?

Who cares if the ball bounces a few extra times? So, um, I love these just life experiences, man, and growing and meeting these interesting people that give me just even more of an open mind and, and the ability to like, yeah. Be human. And when, yeah, when things aren’t quite going my way to be like, you know what, bro, if the pendulum is swinging back right now, like it will swing back to the good it’s just getting pulled back right now.

Dude, just keep going. And it will all even itself out. And, uh, Chris and I, I know have just had a lot of cool and like. Hard experiences we’ve had through this journey, like just personal life experiences. Um, and so it’s been cool to just go through that, right. And like, just enjoy the process and, and keep going and not giving up.

So I don’t know. That’s a whole lot of win for dude. I’m out here cheering for you, man. Whoever’s out there trying to do something that fires them up, bro. Do I wouldn’t give two craps about what anybody else thinks like yo, if, if it really makes you like happy, like legit, like it’s just, it’s not even work.

This is just fun researching this topic or doing this task or hobby, dude. Just go do it, man. Don’t don’t care what anybody else thinks. Cuz the world’s so big. There’s other people you might not see them, but dude, they think and love the same stuff you do. So go do it, man. You’ll find an audience. Yeah,

Stay Motivated

[00:55:02] Jeremiah: there’s a, um, Joe Rogan motivational speech, you can find on YouTube, if you just hit like Joe Rogan, motivation or whatever.

And he says in there, like, yeah, a lot of people’s lives is pretty shitty. Like you go to a job you don’t really want or any like that. He’s like, just find that one thing you’re passionate about. Even if you can only devote 10 minutes of it, of your day to it, to just dump 10 minutes into it every day and, and build on it.

That’s kind of where you’re coming from is. You know, find your passion and it becomes a labor of love. So yeah. Podcast is work, but, uh, I love doing it. I love talking to people like you guys and all the other guests I’ve had on. And so, yeah, it’s a lot of work, but at the same time I love doing it and I love producing it.

I like that people can listen to it and, uh, getting feedback from people that are like, oh, I listen to every episode. That’s, that’s awesome. Right. Really gave me a lot to think about. And it’s just like, yeah. Makes it all worth it. Yeah.

[00:56:07] Tyler: Dude, like, even if it’s one, like it’s crazy, you legitimately changed the trajectory of one person’s life.

Like that’s powerful, man. That’s like, it should not be overlooked or discounted man. So, um, and I love like, I bet if you go back to episode one dude from then till now, the way you run it, how. How good. It sounds how good it looks, all these different things, how you interact with the guests, dude. I bet like you should be proud of the improvement and the only way you get better is by doing it, like, you know, you didn’t watch online, how to podcast videos necessarily for the past eight months.

Like, no, you went out and made podcasts for the past eight months and I’ll be darn if this isn’t a much, you know, like just a polished, uh, production man. And I love what you’re doing and, uh, it’s just good. It’s cool, man. So to each the throne, whatever their journey is, man, like I think you would surprise yourself if, if you.

Move your feet in that direction and commit whatever little bit of time you can to it. Um, like you’re, you’re guaranteed to get better. It’s like gravity it’s it is just, it’s a principle dude. I don’t care whether you believe in practice or not like do the, it, it will happen. Like if you do something again and again, it becomes muscle memory, dude, like literal muscle memory, like think about the first time you drove your car and had to get onto the highway and how this massive 2000 pound death trap, like, dude, that like, this is crazy.

How do I keep this car straight? How do I get over? And now dude, we smoke in six. You know what I mean? Like changing songs, we’re talk telling the kid, yo yo get, you know, stop fighting, whatever. And it’s like, oh dude, it’s all muscle memory, man. Like we just, you can not even sometimes think about what you’re doing.

You’re like, yeah, Y your mind, your body muscle memory. It just takes over dude. You’re you’re hopping on that highway merger. No problem. My brains are weird, right? It’s crazy. Yeah. That’s crazy. And you’re automatically, yeah. As you’re like, yep. Handing your kid, right? Like the, the jelly, the peanut butter and jelly sandwich, like you’re checking the side me, like you’re going through all these things.

Like you’re not consciously thinking about it, but you’re doing all those, like things to ensure the safety, but you would’ve never thought you could ever in a million years get there. If you would’ve taken a polygraph when you were 16 years old and first started

[00:58:40] Chris: and everybody’s different. It’s just really weird.

Like my wife is autistic. So the way she thinks is so much different than most people and the way her brain compartmentalizes and see these details that I don’t, or don’t infer from them, like the way she infers things, it’s just, it’s weird. Like it’s just so different. Um, and everybody’s like that. So yeah, man, our brains are just crazy.

[00:59:07] Jeremiah: Yeah. How many times have you driven home from somewhere and you get home and you’re like, how the hell did I get home? Yeah, because you forget about the drive.

[00:59:15] Chris: Yeah. Yeah, man. There’s so much, I don’t remember about my life when I was a kid, all that stuff. Like all those experiences. So many days where it’s like, I don’t remember them, but they were, they happen

[00:59:31] Tyler: oh yeah.

You’ll have core memories. Yeah. Of like innocuous thing, like something you’re like, why, why is that event image? Small interaction painted in my mind. Yeah. Why, why can I VI like that, that I know there was more dope stuff like scoring a touchdown or like something that, you know, like just cooler stuff that my, that I should remember and have a mental imagery of, and there’s.

Yeah, it’s crazy. You’ll have these, these, uh, core memories of like stuff that seems completely banal. Yeah. Uneventful. Yeah. Banal. Yeah.

[01:00:09] Jeremiah: It’s weird, man. Yeah. Like, like for me personally, I, um, I don’t like conflict myself. So like if I get in a fight with someone, like that’ll just play in my brain for like ever and like, it’s like, why can’t I just drop it or forget about it, but my brain’s just like holding

[01:00:29] Chris: onto it.

Yeah. And, and some of these, I mean, a lot of things we do, I feel like are, um, because of the repetition. So like that you were talking about like the muscle memory of driving, but that also works in, uh, the way we respond to emotional things. The way we try to protect ourselves from conflict. I avoid conflict also.

Uh, you know, something I work on with my therapist now, but it’s like so obvious to me now. Like all these things, it just kind of like ran away because I was too whatever, afraid to face them or whatever it is. But we do that all with so many things in our lives. So yeah. I don’t know. We got way off track from Sasquatch, but

[01:01:10] Tyler: Barry pH, but that explains why your, your, uh, emails have been getting really nasty here recently and very aggressive.

You’ve been emboldened to just speak your mind.

[01:01:21] Jeremiah: I’m

[01:01:21] Tyler: unleashed . I’m kidding, dude. Chris is not legit, dude. I, I couldn’t imagine, uh, like Dockside media or doing this with anybody else, man. It’s just, it, it’s a cool, uh, it’s just a cool process where for sure, like the sum of both of our skill sets, just make the end end product infinitely better.

They just feel definitely all both of us can do kind of all of the, the tasks that we’re both, that. Whatever we just have, we’re both like well versed in, uh, but we all, we both have different strengths and so it’s just awesome. Um, yeah, it’s just awesome to be able to plate our skill sets and dude, and just trust in the pro like, oh dude, I just trust dude.

I know Chris knows what he’s doing. Right. And sometimes I’ll give him notes and stuff and he will, he can make some changes. And some like, if the change isn’t, it’s like, oh dude, he knows. Yeah. I, I understand, like he knows what’s best. Right. Um, and, uh, dude, I don’t know. It’s just, it’s sick, dude. It’s sick.

So just one more plug for secrets of the Sasquatch man, all this passion, uh, and just love for life and curiosity and, and like fascination cetera. I think you find a lot of that. In secrets of the Sasquatch. And hopefully you leave with stuff like, even just, if it’s a little seed of, um, like one of the things that Sue Walker mentions is that the Sasquatch are like a more civilized peoples or species then humans, because they take care of all of their beings.

Right? All their brothers, all the and sisters. Um, and as far as like food, water, shelter, medicine, these types of thing, and it’s like, oh dude, it’s just cool for me to get that perspective shift. Like, oh dude, that if we are me measuring civilizations, how dope they are based on how well they take care of everybody, eh, yeah.

I gotta say. Man, the squirrels might even have us beat. Yep. I, I need to look into the squirrel population more. That’s true. How, how good. But it’s just like, oh dude. Yeah. We could probably be doing a better job. And so like, I like that the, our documentaries offer stuff like that, where it’s like, oh dude, whatever you take from this.

I don’t know. I think there’s some nuggets of new information and value and just stuff. Uh, it’s like good food for thought. Um, however you interpret it. I think it allows you to maybe live your life a little bit more fully or, uh, like, I don’t know, enjoy it more. Just have fun with it, man. Experience it more.


[01:04:09] Chris: Yep.


[01:04:10] Jeremiah: So in wrapping it all up, uh, I know you guys have to have some ideas floating around your head. What’s uh, what’s. ideas for our next project. I know you got the, uh, UFO one coming, but beyond

[01:04:25] Chris: that. Yeah. yeah, we got in plain sight, the intelligence community and UFOs. That’s the UFO one then like, uh, we said earlier we are filming, uh, another supernatural ghost documentary called, uh, ghosts in the graveyard, pure pandemonium.

Uh, we already started filming some of that and we’re gonna be doing a camp out this weekend. So I’m looking forward to that. But then we have a bunch of ideas for down the line. Uh, past life regression is one of the topics we want to explore, possibly experience, um, or try to experience that remote viewing is a topic that’s also really interesting to us and to the government.

So if the government’s interested in it and willing to spend millions and millions of dollars looking into it, there’s probably something. Interesting there. So we want to explore that topic. Um, we talked about like, uh, maybe doing something with, uh, you know, iowaska or these, uh, transformative medicinal herbs, uh, cuz that’s just generally an interesting topic for Tyler and I on a personal level.

Um, but we have a bunch of ideas we’re kicking around, but those are the ones I think that we’re gonna be doing in, in the, you know, soon near future, near future. Yeah.

[01:05:40] Tyler: Yeah. And plain sight, the intelligence community FOS will be out. Yep. Like mid fall, early, mid fall. Yeah. And then goes to the graveyard, pure pandemonium.

I mean yeah. After this camp out, you know, I already went and interviewed like an author and as historian, uh, on this, um, this ghost town of pandemonium and. Man, all like the interesting people who may met some like crazy ends to their lives there. And, um, but so Chris, yeah. I mean, we’ll have all the footage for that, like in, in a week or two.

Uh, so Chris will start editing that that’ll be out probably. Yeah. Chris. Yeah. You’ll get going on that. I saw your eyebrows. I’m shooting a feature film too. Cranking on that then. And wow. I know bud, but we gotta get this done before the . Nah, nah, we can talk about that off air seriously though. You need it done before the feature and uh, but then, so yeah, as soon as we get that film then yep.

These other topics, they remote viewing and past slave progression as Chris is working on his feature film transient, which you, you can still donate to. If you go to trans, uh, make transient, make, make Yeah. Uh that’s T R a N S I E. N T I think that’s the first time I repel that allowed good.

Yeah. Nice job. That’s right. Thanks dog. Um, but yeah, and dude, so I’ll just start reaching out to all these interesting people that have had these, these cool, like, uh, reincarnation and past life regressions. Yeah. Dude, who like, I don’t know. I love this idea of like the universe or creator, whatever, like wanting to like being all knowledgeable or something, but not like needing to experience it all.

So breaking itself into all these different pieces, not knowing it’s the creator and experiencing it to teach. I don’t know. We’re

[01:07:37] Chris: all made of the same stuff, right? Like all star stuff. So just,

[01:07:41] Tyler: yeah. We’re all star as made. Right. We, we, our bodies just thinking of like, I love thinking about this crazy stuff.

The energy

[01:07:47] Chris: gets trans Ooh, man. You know, transferred in some way. So there’s something there to it. I think.

[01:07:54] Jeremiah: yeah, we could all be just like a piece of God experiencing planet earth. Yeah,

[01:07:59] Tyler: exactly. And that’s what, yeah. Like, I, I, I keep my mind open to all those different avenues because like, until I’m like proven, it’s proven for sure that it’s not that, um, dude, like, who am I to say?

Oh, well that, that can’t be a possibility, dude. I think some of these other things could maybe be at, but it can’t be that it’s like, oh no dude. Like I, yeah. I just try and be respectful of everybody and open minded. It’s like, oh dude, I, I don’t know at this time, but I don’t think the science community right.

Knows or whatever it is. So like until we have definitive answers. Yeah. It could be. Yeah,

[01:08:36] Jeremiah: definitely. Yeah, for sure. And um, if you end up doing that iowaska documentary, let me know. I might be able to hook you up with that lady

[01:08:47] Chris: I interviewed. Yeah. Yeah. That

[01:08:49] Tyler: would be cool. no doubt, dude. I think a spirit question could be, cause that true man.

And the experience you relayed, uh pre-recording about that, that lady, uh, just super interesting. Super, really, really

[01:09:03] Chris: fascinating. And I wanna say Jeremiah, uh, just thanks for having us on again, dude. Um, love coming on here. Wanna come back again? Maybe when, uh, in plain sight comes out. Talk about some more alien stuff.

[01:09:17] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, for sure. That’s my favorite. Yeah.

[01:09:19] Tyler: ah, dude, we’ll send you a pre screener, you know bro. You know, we’re good for it. We’ll keep, we’ll keep sending you the links if you keep having us on for sure, dude, we, we love this man. Love what you’re doing.

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Soul Sisters: Ghost Investigations

Soul Sisters: Ghost Investigations

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[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if their wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything. Your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow terrestrials and welcome back. We have a great episode. Up ahead. This episode was actually selected by you, the audience. I did a poll and this episode is the winner. I’ll do more polls in the future. This is the first, uh, attempt. So I think, uh, we’re all gonna enjoy it regardless, cuz I had a great conversation with Chris Sumner and she runs soul sisters, a uh, paranormal and ghost investigation group and she has a doctorate and she also goes about ghost investigations in a non dramatized way.

So everything that she does, she sets up cameras, sensors, everything like that, uh, records data around the area, making sure that there’s no chance of something being picked up. That is actually something else. So a lot of her findings are truly unexplained. So we’re gonna get to talking to her about that, but first, if you like the show and you like the content, if you could subscribe or follow that way, whenever a new episode drops you’ll know right away, it’ll get downloaded.

You’ll be able to enjoy all the great content. I have a lot of great content coming out. So definitely subscribe. Also, if you can rate and review the show, be highly appreciated. Just helps out with the show. Let me know that you’re liking it. So let’s get with Chris Sumner and get a little spooky and remember question everything.


Hello, and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast, I’m your host, Jeremiah. And I’m joined today by Christie from the soul sisters paranormal podcast, or she has a website too that has videos and everything. And, uh, she and her sister set out on. Ghost investigations. I don’t really like saying ghost hunts, cuz it just sounds funny or like cheesy, you know, so ghost investigations and paranormal investigations.

So I’ll introduce her now. Hello.

[00:02:43] Kris: Hi Jeremiah. How you doing tonight?

[00:02:45] Jeremiah: Good. How are you?

[00:02:46] Kris: I’m fantastic. Thank you for having me.

Yes. Thanks for coming on. And speaking with us, I’m sure you got a lot of stories to tell us and talk about . Oh yeah, absolutely. And I looked into some of your stuff, but my audience obviously might not know.

So, um, if I ask something it’s for the good of everybody,

absolutely. Let’s let’s do this. So

[00:03:10] Jeremiah: I wanted to start with cuz it’s something that I don’t hear a lot of in the paranormal sector, but I think you touched on it a few times and uh, that’s like children, ghosts and children spirits and. Have you encountered any and what is your take on, on the whole thing with like kids?

Cuz my brother, he says the only thing that really scares him is like hearing little kids in horror movies or kids singing and uh, so they definitely add like an extra element to the whole thing. And uh, so I just wanted to get your take on, you know, children, ghost children’s spirits and what, uh, what you think it all entails.

[00:03:54] Kris: absolutely. So, um, to, to answer the first question, yes, we have encountered, uh, the spirit of children. Um, a and, and for me, when we go into these investigations, a again, soul sister’s paranormal is made up of myself and primarily my twin sister, but our younger sister, and then some female family, friends join us as well.

So we’re an all female group. And I think that an all female group, um, tends to lead toward a little bit more empathy. I’m not gonna say that we’re empathic per se, but more empathy. And I think that allows children’s spirits to be more comfortable, um, a, around an all female team, probably more so than they would an all male team or a co-ed team.

Um, so we have encountered children’s spirits. One that really sticks out is when we were investigating, uh, the exchange hotel in Gordonsville, Virginia. Now this is a, uh, it was. Before the civil war as a hotel, a three story hotel, um, because it sits right on a railroad junction there in Gordonsville, uh, during the civil war, it was recommissioned into a civil war hospital that saw both, um, Confederate and union soldiers.

And there’s about 700 verified deaths during that conflict that happened in that hospital. So it’s a very active location, but there’s also the reports of a child named Jeremiah that inhabits that, uh, that hotel. So when we went there it’s was, it’s not you, it’s not, it’s not you. No, . Um, so when we went to that investigation, there were five females there.

And, um, myself and my friend, Kim, uh, we were the only two in the house at the time. The rest were in the summer kitchen, which is another building on the property. She and I were the only two people in, in the actual hotel portion. And so we tried to make contact with, with little Jeremiah. We sat in a hallway about, we were probably about 10 feet away from each other.

Facing each other and we had our legs, you know, pointing outward. We had a glow in the dark ball and we both had K two meters in front of us. I said, you know, Jeremiah, if you’re here, will you light up the lights in front of me? And I’ll roll this ball down to Kim. My lights lit up.

They indicated that some energy was acting on it. And so I rolled the ball down to Kim and Kim asked the same question. She said, now, if you’re in front of me, Light up the lights in front of me, use your energy and I’ll roll the ball back to Christie. And so it did. So he did that and we, we went back and forth with this game for probably about 15 or 20 minutes.

Just adjacent to that hallway was a bedroom where it was set up to look like an old time hotel. We had a voice recorder on the bed, in that room. Later on during the night we captured a child’s voice saying, hi, this is my bed, which does two things. One, it shows that there’s a level of intelligence because I think he was speaking to the voice recorder saying, Hey, why are you on my bed?

This is my bed. And two, it validated that there was a child spirit there because we obviously have no children on the team. And so that was a very interesting, um, one interaction and then two, uh, a voice, uh, a recorder that we caught on the, a recording that we caught on the voice recorder. Um, and so for me, When we do, when we do these investigations, we go in with the premise really on three theories, right?

That’s that spirits are here for, for three reasons. One, they have unfinished business. Um, there’s something that has to be fulfilled before they can ascend to what’s ever next. The second is fear of retribution, which I think this is why we see a lot of spirits in jails and prisons, because they’re afraid of what’s gonna happen next, based on the life that they lived on earth.

And the third is they don’t understand how to get to the next realm. And I think that’s why we see children a lot. Um, they, they may or may not know that they’re actually dead, but either way they can’t find that light or they can’t find the way to get to the next realm. And I think that’s why they’re there.

We have, um, you know, the exchange hotel was a great example of a child spirit. Also communicated one in, uh, ha bar dam, which is located in Tennessee. Had several instances where we communicated with children.

[00:08:02] Jeremiah: Yeah. I always wondered. what that all was all about. Like, cuz like I said, when I look into paranormal stuff and I haven’t been doing it like all that long, but a lot of times you just hear about like the older people, like spirits and ghosts and uh, not too much focus on like the kid aspect.

So mm-hmm I wanted to get your take on that whole thing. And then I saw you had a video on your website where you went to an elementary.

[00:08:31] Kris: mm-hmm yeah, yeah. Post town elementary and post town, Ohio. Um, that was interesting. Uh, you know, that, um, a lot of the theories about why that elementary school is haunted is really based on one native American stories and then two, uh, railroad accidents, train accidents that happened in close proximity to, uh, to that elementary school really before the school was actually, um, built, there was a couple of train accidents.

But, we did have a lot of activity in that location. Honestly, I don’t feel that anything that we were communicating with that night was a child spirit. We captured several EVPs that were extreme. Interesting EVPs, um, that seemed to in, uh, indicate an intelligent response. None of them were children’s spirits.

Um, we think one was maybe a teenage girl, uh, and, and then the others were mostly what we feel were male, um, uh, like men. Um, those were a couple of the EVPs that we captured as well. So while it was an interesting experience, um, the, the, the indications that we got was there wasn’t really a lot of children activity, at least on the night that we investigated.

Um, but there was definitely something going on in that, uh, that elementary school.

[00:09:48] Jeremiah: Yeah. When, uh, I was watching it till one part kind of freaked me out, cuz I wasn’t. I think I went to do something else cuz I was like making dinner or something and I look, and there’s like a painting of some kid that’s like this and I was like, oh my gosh.

Yeah. And I thought that was like something you caught on film. And then I realized it was just a painting.

[00:10:11] Kris: Yeah. This little statue thing that he’s got stuck in a corner. Um, and the weird thing is, is it’s it’s in this corner where you, when you turn left, like it’s right there. So that when we were doing our walkthrough, um, during the day it scared the be Jesus outta me.

Um, you know, I actually said a couple of choice words because of it was sitting there. Um, but yeah, it, uh, it’s definitely one of those things. It’s like, why is this? Even here? It sits out right, right outside the doll room.

[00:10:38] Jeremiah: Yeah. I just, uh, I looked over and I was like, oh my gosh, because it looks creepy. So

[00:10:44] Kris: it it’s very creepy in the day and more, especially in the night.

And then

[00:10:49] Jeremiah: I saw, I forget who was standing next to it, but I was like, it’s right next to you. But then I realized it was just a painting

[00:10:58] Kris: yeah. So post down is a very interesting location.

[00:11:02] Jeremiah: And then, um, I interviewed Jess king, uh, I don’t know if you know her, but she, um, she’s a medium and she went to a elementary school in Alabama and they got a lot of like negative vibes from it.

And, um, like they said, like a lot of bad stuff was going on there. Um, cuz it was like, I guess like a church and then a school. And I don’t know, I have deep history, so it seems like a lot of places that have a lot of history tend to have, you know, ghost activity.

[00:11:38] Kris: Mm-hmm . Yeah. And that, and that’s one of the really, that’s one of the things that we love about what we do, um, is because we get to go to these historical locations, we get to have that very tactile experience with these locations that a lot of people don’t really get the opportunity to enjoy.

Um, you know, not many people can say they’ve stayed in, you know, the SKAs murder house or the Lindsay Borden house, or the St. Augustine lighthouse, but we get to actually do that. And then what we wanna do is really tell that historical narrative to our audience. Uh, that’s why, if you watch any of our videos, you know, the first three to five minutes is really a deep dive into the, his, into the history.

And then we couple that with the paranormal activity that we find in those locations, um, so to your point, history to us is extremely important and really the catalyst as to why we do this.

[00:12:24] Jeremiah: Yeah. So like, um, you have like some prisons and stuff on there. And I wanted to talk about that too, because my fiance works for jail and she’s had some ghost experiences and it’s not even.

And abandoned jail. It’s still filled with prisoners. So mm-hmm but they seem to be, you know, a hotbed too, cuz you have inmates who kill themselves or get killed by another inmate or uh, whatever reason. So mm-hmm uh, what kind of places prison wise have you been. uh, what have you experienced?

[00:13:00] Kris: Well, coincidentally enough, I’m currently sitting in the historic Scott county jail in Huntsville, Tennessee.

Um, so this is a jail that was built in 1904. It was an operation as a jail until 2008. And then it said vacant until last year when my business partner Miranda young from goes bike explorations. She and I formed a company called history highways and Hauns, and we opened a museum as well as a paranormal research center inside this jail.

And so to your point, when we first opened, uh, last year in September of 2021, um, we. We’re getting reports from deputies that used to work here saying, you know, when I worked in the jail, when there was inmates here, when I worked there, um, we would hear footsteps when all the inmates were in their cells.

Uh, the elevator would start running up and down on its own when nobody was there. Um, we had a woman who was in dispatch. She got on the elevator one night by herself and something coughed in her ear and she never rode the elevator again. So. Jails and prisons are definitely I, in my mind, a hotbed for paranormal activity, simply because to your point, there is a lot of violence.

There is suicides, right? There is natural deaths, especially in a jail like this one, which has this long history spanning almost 120 years. Um, there were natural deaths. Um, we had one of our sheriffs in 1925. He was actually shot and killed right here in the front door. It’s still an unsolved murder.

We do believe his spirit is here inside the jail. For us, it on a routine basis, I mean, daily, we will hear doors slamming upstairs footsteps. Um, whistling seems to be an interesting phenomena that we’ve really started to capture here. Um, you know, we’ll just be sitting here at the desk working and something will whistle behind us, even though we’re the only people here.

And, um, so you know, it, it, there is, there is a lot of just trauma and violence and. It’s it’s, it’s not really a happy place. Most people that are in the jail or prison, aren’t there because they’re, they’re in a happy state in their life. Um, so you have all of that energy. And for me, I really believe it just permeates into the walls.

We have a lot of residuals here. At night you’ll hear footsteps, just pacing upstairs on the third floor, which was maximum security. Their residual to us because we’ll be standing there and you’ll hear them and we’ll say, hello, hello. Is anybody there? And they just keep on walking.

Like they don’t even hear us. Um, but then we have intelligence. Um, we will, uh, be upstairs asking questions and, uh, we’ll get intelligent responses upstairs on the second and the third floor as well. So for me, I love jails. I love prisons. Um, they’re probably, to me the best investigations that we’ve gone on.

[00:15:43] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, for sure. And my fiance tells me stories too. Like she’ll be walking down a. I don’t know what you call a corridor, I guess. And mm-hmm, , she’d hear a door slam shut, and there’s no one there and , uh, voices talking to her, but there’s no one wherever she’s located at the time. And mm-hmm, uh, like, so she, yeah, she tells me all about her jail ghost experience.

So , I Def there’s definitely something going on. And I think a lot of ghosts, like you said, are, um, when they have like a trauma based death, it seems like they seem to hang around a lot more then if they go peacefully. So mm-hmm yeah. She, she’s always talking about, uh, inmates on suicide watch and all that stuff.

And then of course, on tough her jail, isn’t that bad as far as like inmate on inmate violence, but mm-hmm, , there’s obviously prisons where, you know, people get killed and so yeah, definitely. Um, would breed that type of environment.

[00:16:52] Kris: Yeah. And to your point, I really, I, I think it does, like I said, um, it’s almost like it, it just kind of permeates, um, you know, there’s like certain things that have happened at least at least here in this jail, and I’m sure in other jails across the country, um, we’ve had the suicides, we’ve had people that self harm, right.

That, uh, that wanna just go out for, to try to get out for a day to go to the hospital. Um, here there was inmate violence, um, simply because they had no exercise yard or any outside exposure, um, until 1996, when an outside wreck yard, a small one was, was, um, put out constructed in the back. Um, but up until that time, you know, 24 hours a day they’re jail cell was their environment.

And so it, to me, you know, jails and prisons to your point are really just those hotbed of paranormal activity. Simply for that reason. You know, we’ve investigated brushing mountain state penitentiary, which is about 45 minutes from here, um, in Petros, Tennessee, we’ve been there a couple of times, and that’s a great place to investigate because we have both residual and intelligent hauntings there.

We captured footsteps door slamming. At the same time we were capturing voices that were telling us, Hey, I’m here or I’m behind you, or I warned you, those sort of things. We’ve captured full bodied apparitions, um, on, on camera and on, uh, and on video. So there’s a lot of things that happen in jails and prisons.

And like I said to me, it it’s all fascinating.

[00:18:21] Jeremiah: So when you go out with your team, um, is it just you and your sisters, or do you have other people that go with.

[00:18:30] Kris: Well, we started in 2013 as a team of five. So myself, my twin sister, our younger sister, and two female family friends. And, um, our first couple of years, we were that team of five, everywhere that we went, you know, there were the five of us that would go really just then, you know, through a series of life events and COVID and all of that.

Um, we, it, it’s just easier travel and logistic wise to allow Jenny my twin, um, Jenny and I to really do the, the primary investigations for the team. Now, the others will join when they can. Um, but you know, one got a new job and moved to Colorado. One had a grandbaby. So it’s just one of those things that life just kind of plays a role in this as well.

So primarily for the last two years it’s been Jenny and myself.

[00:19:15] Jeremiah: So when you go out to do these investigations, what kind of like tools and equipment and stuff do you use? Cuz people might not people listening might not know like all the different. Terminology and all the equipment. So what kind of stuff do you guys use to, I’ve heard of like dowsing rods, I think is one mm-hmm and some other stuff.

So just interesting to hear what people use .

[00:19:42] Kris: Sure, absolutely. So the first thing for us, when we go in an investigation, we go in with a mindset of actually trying to de. The location first. And by that, I mean, we go in for a day tour before our investigation and we’ll look at all of the things that environmentally we feel could influence the investigation.

So we look for streetlights, we look for traffic patterns for airline patterns, trains nearby dogs, nearby kid nearby, anything like that, that during our investigation, if we hear those things, we can say, okay, we think it’s this rather than something paranormal. So we, the, from the very get go, we go in with a scientific mindset of really trying to disprove things first.

Um, and then we also take notes on where we want to leave stationary equipment when we do the nighttime investigation. So when we go in and do the nighttime invest. we set up, uh, static, uh, or stationary voice recorders as well as stationary night vision video cameras. The reason we do that is because we want eyes and ears on as much of the location as we can.

So even if we’re not in a particular room or in a particular hallway, we have night vision, video cameras and voice recorders recording in those hallways or rooms. Um, and so then we set all of that up. We all have voice recorders on us as well. We have body cameras, um, night vision, body cameras that really give us a timestamp of where everybody is during the investigation.

So if, say an, uh, we capture a noise in a hallway at 10 o’clock at night, I will go back and cross reference where everybody is based on those body cameras and make sure it’s not one of us causing that noise or that anomaly. So we have that. Um, we, then we have pieces of equipment that we called our, our handheld equipment that will take with us.

the first thing we have are what we call K two meters. And these were essentially created for electricians to find electrical outlets or electrical circuits in a room. Um, and basically they’re radio or, um, uh, electronic frequency meters. Um, uh, so they measure electromagnetic energy. And so the idea is that if you believe that spirits are made up of energy, that excuse.

That if there’s no energy or power in a location, yet something acts upon these pieces of equipment. Then that’s something that we can say, okay, there may be a spirit acting on that. Um, so we have K2 meters that we take with us. Um, we have another device called a REM pod, which is a proximity meter as well.

It has an alarm system. It also me measures temperature variations. So again, the idea being, if a spirit approaches it or energy approaches it, it will alarm and indicate that something is acting on it. Um, we have. Um, a camera called an SLS camera and generally speaking, it is a modified camera that has an algorithm on it.

That when you sweep it around a room, it looks like if it perceives a human in the room, it puts it as a stick figure on the screen. Um, so the idea being that even if nothing is in the room, if the camera perceives a human in the room or a spirit in the room, it will display it as a stick figure on the screen.

Uh, we have a device called a spirit box, which generally speaking is an am MFM radio. That’s been modified to very quickly sweep through frequencies. When you turn it on and, and start the sweep, what we call the sweep rate, it sounds like as it’s running through these frequencies, the idea is that spirits can use the white noise to communicate with us.

Essentially speaking through the static and. We use that in, let’s see, um, flashlights, we use flashlights for various experiments. Um, and then we also pride ourselves on taking what we call trigger items. So these are items that we talk about and we take with us and in some cases create, um, to take into a locations, to get a spirit, to communicate with us.

So for example, when we go into a jail or a prison, We’ll take things like cigarettes, um, whiskey, uh, water, something like that, again, to say, you know, these are for you, we’re gonna leave them for you. Will you communicate with us because of that? Um, like for example, when we went into, uh, West Virginia state penitentiary, there was an inmate there, very bad guy.

His name was red Snyder. He was the leader of the Arian brotherhood. Um, just, he was in there for murder. He was in solitary confinement and his two vices in life were tobacco and watching days of our lives. So every day they’d wheel a television in, they’d let him watch days of our lives and then they’d wheel a television away.

So he actually ended up getting killed in prison. And I think 1993 is when he was killed. Anyway. So, what we did is we downloaded an episode of days of our lives on our laptop, took it in into his cell and said, okay, this is for you. We’re gonna leave it run and you watch it and we’ll be back later. So when we came back, um, the, the episode had ended and the battery on the laptop had drained and we walked in and we said, did you see what you, what we left for you?

And he said, yes, we got over a voice saying, yes. Um, so we, we take trigger items like that as well. And, um, so that really kind of rounds out some of the equipment that we have.

[00:24:55] Jeremiah: Yeah. And I was gonna ask about the whole, um, I think it’s called EVP mm-hmm is that what it is? Yeah. Um, and like you said, you trapped voices and stuff like that on video.

And, um, yeah, I first heard about that. There was a movie back in the, I don’t know, nineties, early two thousands. And, um, it was. They were still using VHS tapes cuz right. They were still a thing. And uh, it was all about the EVP phenomenon. So you have captured, um, like voices on film or audio equipment.

[00:25:34] Kris: Oh yeah, absolutely.

So an EVP stands for electronic voice phenomena and essentially what that is. It’s it’s CA the capturing of a voice or a disembodied voice, um, on a piece of electronic equipment. And in some of these cases, you can hear them in the moment and some, and some, we don’t hear in the moment, but when we go back and we listen to our voice recorders, we found that we’ve captured something.

Um, for example, my sister and I, uh, about three, no about four weeks ago, we investigated the USS North Carolina in, uh, in North Carolina. It’s a battleship. We were rec obviously recording. As we’re walking through this bulkhead, um, I step over. and I turn around and I say, Hey, we’re going to look at Jenny.

I say, we’re gonna go in here. So I turn to the left. She’s stepping over the bulkhead, we captured a man’s voice saying, watch your arm. Her and I, the only two people on the entire ship. Yet we captured this male voice saying, watch your arm. Now we didn’t hear it in the moment. But when I went back, when I was going through and listening to that audio, it’s clearly a male’s voice.

Um, another example would be when we investigated the grand old lady hotel, which is located in BSSO North Carolina. Now this is a three story hotel. It was built in 1905 as part of the rare race railroad. and it’s a grand hotel. Like I said, it’s got three stories. It’s got a hundred guest rooms, a big ballroom, um, a great big kitchen.

Uh, it it’s just a really ornate hotel. And so when we were there, we were there for an entire weekend and we had the complete run of the hotel. We were the only people on the property for that weekend. And so it was myself, my twin sister, Jenny and Miranda from ghost biker explorations. And so on Saturday night, we decided to sleep in the, a room on the third floor, which was a suite that essentially had two rooms, right.

There was an interior room and an exterior room and only the exterior room had a door into the hallway. So we had the door closed and we had a, a night vision video camera on the outside of the door and a night vision video camera on the inside of the door. So you see Miranda in that, that room. You see her get into bed and you hear us say goodnight.

And about 15 minutes later, a voice outside the door, a male’s voice says, please don’t. It’s extremely loud and Miranda said, did y’all hear that? I said, yes. She said, what did that sound like? There’s a man outside our door. That’s what I thought too. Um, so that’s an example of us hearing it in the moment and we actually captured it on everything that was recording in that area.

Um, but there was nobody there cuz you can see obviously from the two cameras that nothing approaches that door. And we had complete control of that hotel. Like I said, there was nobody else on the property that night.

[00:28:24] Jeremiah: Yeah. I like how you guys go about it in like, uh, I don’t wanna say scientific way, but like you try to go about it without making it like fabricated or like, you know, how you see on the TV shows like they see something or they don’t even see anything.

And they’re like, oh my gosh. And they run away and you’re like, I didn’t even see anything. Why are you running? And but I like how you guys come at it. Like we wanna. Make sure this is correct. And that mm-hmm, , uh, what we’re experiencing is real and not, you know, something to boost, you know, our ratings or to like, you know what I’m saying?

So mm-hmm, I like how you guys do that.

[00:29:09] Kris: Well, I, I, Jeremiah, I appreciate you saying that. Uh, and that’s really one of the things that, you know, when we started doing this, uh, in 2013, we really wanted to try to the best of our ability to elevate paranormal investigations into a more professional realm. Um, you know, we’re still obviously seen as a subculture, but we wanted to say, okay, we’re gonna be very upfront with what we do and how we do it.

And we do take a scientific approach because, you know, we feel that we want to really make sure that the conversation about paranormal investigations is one that is more scientific, right? Not just this, you know, oh, I feel something or it’s a cold spot because that doesn’t relate to an audience, right.

An audience can’t feel a cold spot, but. If I say, I feel a cold spot and I’m getting an EVP and I’m getting indications that there’s energy here. That’s a little bit different, right? That that’s something that we can translate to our audience. And I understand that for television, there does have to be a sense of sensationalism, right?

Those TV shows, they ha their entire reason for being is to build an audience. But for us, we want to, to show that this is what we feel a real investigation is. It’s, it’s not this instantaneous gratification, right. We’re sitting in a location for sometimes 24 to 48 hours. And we’re literally just talking to the air, trying to get some type of a response.

Um, And, and another thing that we don’t do is we don’t monetize, uh, have people ask why we don’t monetize our YouTube channel. And it’s for that very reason, right? I don’t want somebody to come back and say, well, you’re just presenting this, this, you know, this thing. Um, or these voices, you’re making it up to get more hits, to get more money.

And we don’t do that. Right. We don’t monetize for that very reason. I don’t wanna give the appearance that we’re putting this out there just to get hits or just to get subscribers or money. Um, what we do is really, as I said before, want to highlight these historical locations for preservation purposes and then say, okay, while we were there in this very interesting historical location, we captured these things that we couldn’t explain in the moment.

[00:31:18] Jeremiah: Yeah. I like that. I like that approach. And. That’s what I try to, well, I know my show covers various topics, but I try to come at it. Like I’m not preaching to anybody. I’m not trying to tell you what to believe. I just want my guest to present what they know. And then it’s up to the person listening to decide, you know, what they wanna take from it and what they wanna do.

And I’ve always put links for everything. So if they want to go check it out for themselves, they can. And so I like that approach. Definitely. So let’s get into some more places that you’ve been. Cuz I wrote some down here. Sure. Um, that really interested me. Mm-hmm and the one was the ax

[00:32:00] Kris: house. Yeah. The Vale ex murder house.


[00:32:04] Jeremiah: yeah. Can you kind of explain like what that was about and what you experienced?

[00:32:09] Kris: Sure. Absolutely. So, um, the ska acts murder house is located in ska Iowa. And this was the scene of the 1912 murders, the acts murders of an, of an entire family, the Moore family. Um, so, uh, what happened very quickly to summarize the, uh, the story is in 1912, there was a family that owned the farmhouse, the Moore family.

So it was, uh, Josiah Moore and his wife, Sarah, and then they had four, four kids. And this night, um, of the murders, they actually had two other kids staying over. There was a church function that they had attended and there was two girls staying over as well. um, ina and, and Lena Stiller. They had come back from this family function and they had all gone to bed.

Apparently a man had been hiding in the attic that they didn’t know about. During the night he snuck outta the attic and he ended up killing Josiah and Sarah Moore, as they slept in their beds, he killed them with an ax. He basically mutilated their faces and then he went and killed the six kids.

And, um, so after he killed them, he did some strange things. He covered the mirrors in the house. Um, he washed his hands in the kitchen, but he left the blood there. Um, he also put a slab of bacon on the table and he smoked some cigarettes and then he left. He left the acts there as well. So they did find the acts and then he left and it’s still an unsolved murder.

Nobody knows who committed this heinous crime against his family. And. So the reports obviously have been since the murders that the house was haunted. And so when we went, um, it, we, there was five of us. And if you see the house on television shows and such. It looks a little bit larger than it is. We’re talking a very small country farmhouse in the middle of Iowa.

And so when we did the investigation, um, even though there were five of us, we only went in as a subset. So two of us would go in or three of us would go in because we felt five was just too much to have in the SI in the house at the same time. And so we, uh, we went about our routine. We set up our stationary voice recorders.

We set up our, our night vision, video cameras. And then we went in and we started what we call EVP sessions. Basically we go in and we sit down, we ask questions and we try to get responses. And so we had several things that we couldn’t explain. There was one instance where, um, uh Carra and Kim were walking up the stairs to the second floor and we had a voice recorder in the attic.

And as you, as you hear them walking up the stairs, a man’s voice in the attic says. Downstairs where the girls are sleeping. And so two things, one, there were no men in the house, so I’m not sure where that voice came from. And two ina and Lena stinger were killed downstairs in the bedroom downstairs.

They, they were the only two downstairs. That was kind of interesting. It’s it, to me, it was almost like a residual saying downstairs where the girls were sleeping. That was kind of interesting. Um, and then there was one instance where Jenny and Michelle were in the kids’ room where the four more, more children were killed.

They’re in the room and they’re sitting down on the floor and they’re asking questions. When they’re done, they stand up and Michelle kind of grabs, you see her on the camera, grab her forehead. She said, oh, when I, when I stood up, my head just started hurting and Jenny’s like, okay, let’s get you outside.

Let’s get you some water. And as they leave the room, we captured a child’s voice saying I didn’t do that. Kind of like, I didn’t give her the headache. Um, which was kind of interesting as well. And then, um, we had some very interesting K two hits what we call K2 hits, um, which indicated that some type of energy was acting on our K2 meters, um, that we can’t explain.

It was actually very intelligent. Um, cuz we have one gray meter in one black meter and we were saying. can you just go to the black one and that one would light up. Can you just go to the gray one and that one light up and so through a series of different questions? Um, we, we think we’re talking to the spirit of Sarah more, which was the mother.

And, um, so for us it was a great investigation. Uh, we had a great time going out to, uh, to Iowa to investigate that location. And really just to be in that, that house where so much tragedy had occurred.

[00:36:22] Jeremiah: Yeah. That sounds like a brutal story. And mm-hmm unfortunately they didn’t find who did it cuz um, that would, yeah, that’s pretty bad.

There was a kid, I don’t know how old he was. I think he was like 18 or 19. Uh, this was a long time ago when I was living in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and, uh, Christmas morning or was a Christmas Eve morning. One of those mornings, he, uh, killed his whole family and uh, then they, they caught him though. And.

Ended up going to the prison. And I knew someone that worked at the Lancaster prison and they said like, that kid was such a, like a-hole . Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I mean, you would have to be. Yeah. So yeah, I can only imagine what kind of trauma would happen that would keep, you know, the ghosts and residual stuff there.

And mm-hmm, the fact that you get these voices and male voices and they’re, it’s a full female team. So I mean, how do you explain that? You know exactly. And then, yeah, just, uh, it’s pretty incredible, uh, like hearing, I mean, I don’t like that people died, but I like the hearing, the stories and, uh, things that were actually, you know, caught instead of, you know, some of these, I hate to rag on all these shows all the time, but like where.

They’ll be looking at something and there’s absolutely nothing going on and they just like, get scared and run or whatever and it’s like, what the heck? Right. But yeah, to actually have like real evidence is mm-hmm is definitely a plus. So then, um, I have here and I hope I pronounce it correctly. The Lizzy Bordain, the

[00:38:15] Kris: Lizzy Borden house or Borden house.

Yeah. Lizzy Borden. Um, so this, this house, again, this was on our bucket list for a while. This was, um, in fall rivers, Massachusetts, and this is the site of the 1892 murders of Andrew and Abby Borden. And so the story is that Lizzy Borden and, uh, and her sister, they lived with their dad, Andrew and their stepmother, uh, Abby in this house in fall rivers and in, in 19, th in 1892, um, both Andrew and Abby were bludgeon to death again with an a, um, Andrew was hit in the face, I think 16 times and Abby was hit in the face 13 times.

Um, now the interesting thing about this is Lizzy Borden was actually in the house. And so they arrested her for the murder. She was 32 at the time they arrested her for the murders and, um, and she was actually the next year in, uh, 1893. Lizzy was acquitted. Was found not guilty. Um, the jury was of 12, 12 men.

And basically they said, we don’t believe a woman would be capable of doing something like this. And so there’s a lot of intricacies to the story. Um, you know, there’s, there’s con there’s controversy about whether, um, the dad was molesting her and just different things like that. Um, whether she wanted his inheritance, that was another conspiracy theory, but long story short.

she was, um, she was found guilty or she was found innocent of committing those murders and is still an unsolved murder. So again, since 1892, this house has had reports of paranormal activity. Um, later on, um, after 1892, there was a neighbor that had a couple of kids that died in a tragic accident in a well behind their house.

So the kids are said to inhabit the Lizzy Borden house as well. So when we investigat. , there were five of us again on this investigation. And, um, as soon as we start an investigation, we have our voice recorders running. So even when we’re pulling luggage out of the car or equipment out of the car to bring it into the house, if, if we’re in the house, we have a voice recorder running because we wanna make sure we get everything that we can, right.

So we were still in the process of setting up our equipment and there were three of us upstairs. Jenny and, and Kara were sitting in the parlor where Andrew Borden’s body was found. They’re just sitting there talking about the day and kind of some different things. Then they start getting on, uh, talking about the difference between the ska acts murder house, which we had investigated prior and the Lizzy Borden house.

During that conversation, Carra says either way being acts to death would be a horrible way to die. As soon as she said that a male’s voice on the voice recorder said it was. There was no man in the house. Um, and yet it seemed like this guy was interjecting into the conversation saying, yeah, it was a horrible way to die.

We have no explanation for that. Um, later on during the night we captured, um, children giggling when we were upstairs in the, on the third floor, uh, in the third floor attic area, um, we captured some children giggling and some of our devices started indicating that there was energy acting upon it when none of us were around that device.

That was kind of interesting. Um, we were all in the third floor room where the made Bridget Sullivan. who was the maid to the, the boards. That’s where, where her room was on the third floor. So we were all five of us in that room and we had the door shut. We were just asking questions again. Miranda had her K2 meter and she put it down on the floor.

She’s putting it down on the floor, she said, here’s another tool for you to play with. As she did that, a man’s voice in the hallway said, ignore them. It was so loud that said, ignore them. We all heard it. Jenny who was standing by the door, she whipped the door open to look out to make sure that, you know, nobody had come into the house.

Of course they hadn’t and we captured it on, uh, the voice recorders as well. Uh, so again, a very interesting location because we were capturing so many different things, both intelligent and, um, and what we call residual. So for us, the Lizzy Borden house was a great investigation.

[00:42:34] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely interesting.

And makes you wonder and. I know if I was there, I would probably have ran out. Cuz that was I get scared easily. So, oh, I would’ve, if I would’ve heard some guy yelling, like get out or something or ignore them, I’d be like, okay, it’s time to go see, yeah. ,

[00:42:55] Kris: you know, for us, it, it really is fascinating. Now I can honestly say we’ve had moments where we’ve been startled.

We have moments of, of trepidation obviously, but you know, for us, it’s just so fascinating that, you know, we’re, we’re communicating with energy, right. We’re communicating with a spirit. And so for us, that’s why we’re there and it, it really makes no point to run out. Um, like I said, we we’ve had those moments where it’s fight or flight and you kind of stand there and your, your hearing gets really acute, but, but then you’re like, okay, this is why we’re here.

This is what we’re here for. And so for us, it’s absolutely fascinating to try to get those responses and, and see if we can come up with an explanation form.

[00:43:35] Jeremiah: So you’ve. Don’t think that, um, the ghosts or spirits can actually like hurt anybody. They’re kind of just there.

[00:43:45] Kris: I, I do believe that there’s instances where if you provoke or you go in with what I call the wrong intentions, I E you’re there to really grand eyes, um, uh, your investigation, or again, provoke a spirit.

I do think that there’s times where you can get assaulted, I E scratched or something like that. Believe that’s possible. Say for us, we’ve never had that happen. We’ve never gone into a, a location and has, and have had, you know, anything happen to us where we have felt threatened or anything malicious, malicious, or malevolent towards us.

There have been locations where we feel something that’s darker. Mostly that happens in prisons for us. And it not, I’m not saying darker is in demonic. I’m saying darker as in this guy was a jerk in life and he’s a jerk in death. So we’re just gonna let him go and do his thing. Um, but we’ve never had anything like that where we’ve been physically assaulted.

Now we will go into locations and. You’re not allowed to touch us unless we give you permission to do so. And so going back to the exchange hotel, when we were trying to communicate with the, the child, Jeremiah, I said, you know, I’m, can you give a high five? I want you to touch me, touch me, gimme a high five, pull my pant leg.

And we have had things happen when we invite that. Um, but we’ve never, like I said, had anything that, uh, has been threatening or physically assaulting towards us.

[00:45:14] Jeremiah: Okay. So yeah, you haven’t, um, encountered now, do you think, um, do you think like demons are like separate from like spirit and ghosts? Like, I don’t know if you get into that kind of thing.

Mm-hmm but, or like exorcisms or any of that stuff, but like, there’s gotta be evil side to. to it. Yeah. Um, what’s your take on that?

[00:45:38] Kris: So when we go to our investigations, what we’re attempting to communicate with are those spirits that had a human existence, right? They were born, they lived, they died. And for some reason they’re stuck where they’re at.

Um, those three theories that I mentioned earlier, I, I do believe there are demons, but I don’t believe a Demonn had a human existence to me. A, a Demonn is a representation of the evil of the good and evil in the world. They never had that human existence, but they can exist. Um, and they, there are moments where I think you can provoke that, that Demonn entity.

Uh, but for us, we’ve never attempted to do that. Uh, and we’ve never experienced anything that I’ve felt is demonic. I mean, we’ve gone to some of the most reportedly haunted locations in the country and not once have we felt anything that is malicious or demonic, but again, we don’t go in looking for that.

When we go into a location. the first thing that we do is we set our intentions and we say, listen, we’re here to tell your story. We’re not here to harm you. Not here to provoke you. Here to threaten you in any way. Respect your location. And we’re here to respect you. All we wanna do is communicate and tell your story.

Um, and I think because we go in with that level of respect for both the location and the spirits, we kind of get that respect in return. We get communication back. We get instances where, you know, we’re not harmed or physically threatened in any way. And I, I think it, it really go, it goes back to the intention level that we set.

Um, now. If, if there is a location that we come across, um, in the future that has something that we would consider demonic, you know, that’s fine. We will leave that space. And we have, um, friends in, uh, that are demonologist that we can call, um, or priests that we can call and they can help us with that, that location or that case.

But for us, that’s really something that we don’t even delve delve into.

[00:47:33] Jeremiah: Yeah. That’s probably a good thing. And I always ask my, uh, ghosts or paranormal guests, like what, uh, they view for like oui boards and stuff like that. And mm-hmm, a lot of, ’em say, you know, don’t really mess with it. If you don’t really know what you’re doing, because a lot of people don’t know what the heck they’re doing.

And then they could invite like bad spirits or bad energy and. So, yeah.

[00:47:59] Kris: Yeah, absolutely. And, and that’s something that we don’t use. Um, not so much that I think we would open a portal or something like that, but there, it, it’s, it’s really the, um, the connotation behind Awei board. Right? Most people, as soon as you say oui board, they automatically think in their minds, demons, portals, evil.

Um, and, and so that’s just one tool that we’ve never utilized simply because of the connotation behind it. But, um, you know, to your point, I think any tool that if you use in a manner that, um, that it’s not intended for, or you go in with the intention of trying to provoke something, um, or conjure something that, that you shouldn’t be dealing with.

I, I think anything that you take in there could, could have that same result where you get the really the response that you’re looking for. Right. So,

[00:48:53] Jeremiah: Oh, yeah, definitely. All right. So one last, uh, investigation that I wanted to hear from you about uh mm-hmm and then we’ll wrap it up. But, um, and I hope I get the names right too ma and Fred Barker

[00:49:09] Kris: mm-hmm yep.

[00:49:10] Jeremiah: and there’s story. And there. The your experience with it.

[00:49:14] Kris: Mm-hmm absolutely. So absolutely love this story. Um, so this, uh, the ma Barker house was the site of the 1935 shootout between Mon Fred Barker, who are two members of the Barker carpus gang and members of the FBI. Um, so kind of how this came about is you’ve got ma Barker who is, um, the matriarch of the, the Barker carpus gang, who was a really, it was a, it was a really prolific gang, um, in the 1920s and 1930s.

In fact, the, the, the Barker gang, uh, actually called the Barker carpus gang a lot amassed more money than all of the other gangs of the 1920s, 1930s combined. That’s how prolific they were. Um, so you had the great depression from 1929 to 1939, coupled with prohibition from 1920 to 1933. And this is really giving gangs, um, uh, the rise in America.

So. Long story short, you’ve got Jay Edgar Hoover who comes to power and, and, and head of the FBI in 1924. And, um, he decides to go after the Barker carpus gang, because they escalate into kidnapping, which is a federal offense. So they, they kidnap two guys, um, in 1934, um, William ham and Edward Bremer. They get the reward money for them, and then the gang splits.

When they split, they, they split up, they split the money and then they split themselves. Ma Barker and one of her sons, Fred go down to central Florida to this little, literally one, one stoplight town called Aloha, which is in Marion county. And, uh, so they hide out in this house, which was belonged to a guy by the name of, of, uh, of Carson.

The Carson family. And, uh, so they hide out in this house in 1934, November of 1934 in January of 1935, Jay Edgar Hoover tracks them down to the house, a gun battle ensues on the morning of January 16th, 1935. And it culminates with ma and Fred Barker being killed inside the upstairs room of this house.

So. After they were killed, um, uh, Carson Bradford and his family, they maintained the house as it was during that shootout. So when you go in today, there’s bullet holes all on the walls. The SCOs are the same. The doors are the same. The floors are the same. Everything is maintained in this house as it was in 1935, everything, but the windows, I mean the furniture there’s furniture with bullet holes that you can line up to bullet holes in the wall.

Right? And so, um, the reason we knew about this house is because, um, it, it, we were born in Marion county and my grandparents lived about four miles from the house. So every time we’d visit N and granddaddy, and we’d go into Olo, waha, they’d say, you know, that’s where Mon Fred Barker were killed. So in 2016, Carson Bradford’s family decided they were gonna sell the house.

They were gonna sell the land. And the new owners of the land did not want the house. They were gonna demolish it. And so Marion county, Florida decided that they were going to take the house, take possession of the house and move it. Um, to a new location. Basically they put it on a barge and they floated it across lake Weir about two and a half miles away and put it on 40 acres in a state park.

That’s where it sits today. It’s 40 acres in the middle of pretty much nowhere. There’s no light pollution, there’s no noise pollution or anything like that. When we asked Marion county, if we could investigate this house, we were the first paranormal investigation team to be allowed access to the mom Barker house.

We went in, it was a two part investigation. And what I wanted to do with the first part was I wanted to have equipment in the house on the anniversary of the shootout. So what we did is on January 15th, we put all of the stationary equipment in the house, voice recorders, um, uh, uh, stationary night vision, video cameras.

Handheld equipment that we had, we left K2 meters. We left all of that in the house on January 15th, the night of, and then we left, we locked the house and we left. And so all of that equipment ran to encompass the morning of January 16th, which would’ve been the 83rd anniversary of the shootout. And so when we went back and listened to the audio and video that we captured, we had some interesting things that we couldn’t explain.

Um, we had the sound of chairs being drug across the floor. We had the sound of doors being slammed. Um, we had a man’s voice saying get out. Had some different, um, things that sounded like maybe like a ball rolling or something like that, or a marble rolling. But one of the most interesting things that we captured, again, there’s nobody in the house.

One of the most interesting things that we capture. was at about five 30 in the morning, which is when the shootout happened or started at about five 30 in the morning. We captured two voices on the voice recorder, in the room where ma and Fred’s body were found. The first voice said, Freddy, the second voice said, yeah, ma the first one said, get ready.

And I, and I believe that’s a residual haunting. I believe that’s actually what was said in that room 83 years ago, before the shootout happened. So we got all of that. And so then about two weeks later, Jenny and I. Went into the house and we are the only two people in the house. Um, and so we are using some various pieces of equipment.

And one of the things that we were using was the spirit box that AMFM radio that I told you about earlier. And so again, this house sits in the middle of about 40 acres there. This radio is very small. There’s no radio stations that are in the area that this thing could pick up, right? So we turned on the AMFM radio and we started sweeping and you hear that static.

And I said, what happened in this room? And through the spirit box, they said, we got the, the phrase they murdered us. We, the ones dead. Now think about that for just a second. This, this spirit box is going through frequencies. At an eighth of a second, it’s changing to another frequency, but yet we got this full phrase that came through this spirit box.

Um, and theoretically, that should not happen. Right. So what are the odds that you have all of these stations lining up to give me the phrase they murdered us, we, the ones dead. Um, so that was extremely interesting to us and we captured some other things on some of our equipment as well, that night. Um, but for me, I mean the ma Barker house, I is one of those, the most fascinating investigations that we’ve been a part of.

[00:55:45] Jeremiah: Yeah. I kind of want to go check it out now just to go back in time a little bit, cuz mm-hmm if everything’s left the same. the pull holes and everything. It’s like, the police are like, oh, we’re done investigating it. It’s it’s, uh, left alone after that.

[00:56:00] Kris: So mm-hmm . Yeah. And, and that’s really what it was. And I’m really glad that the, that Carson Bradford’s family and, and Carson Bradford himself had the, the foresight to just maintain it like that.

Right. So, I mean, they hung up pictures and stuff to cover the bullet holes, but I mean, you walk up the stairs and, and you see ’em, um, there’s, there’s rocking chairs and, and furniture and, um, uh, trunks like vintage, uh, clothing trunks that when you open the lid, I mean, you see the bullet holes through and you can line it up to the bullet holes in the wall.

It’s, it’s pretty wild.

[00:56:31] Jeremiah: Yeah. That is, uh, very interesting. And I that’s in Florida, you said

[00:56:37] Kris: mm-hmm yeah. In central, in Marion county, Florida. Yep.

[00:56:40] Jeremiah: Dang. But you probably need a permit or something to, or permission to go on the property.

[00:56:45] Kris: Uh, you need to call Marion county, um, uh, park and rec and, uh, they’ll they have tours.

Uh, in fact, I was a doc in there for about eight months after our, our second investigation. So I led day tours and such in there, um, really telling the, the, the history as well as the paranormal, um, about the house. But, uh, yeah, so just call them and make an appointment and you, you can take a tour her.

[00:57:07] Jeremiah: Yeah, I might have to do that actually. it sounds so interesting. And I love, I love history, mostly like ancient history, but like even stories like this where, um, it wasn’t too, too long ago, but mm-hmm, like, it’s just a rich history story. Like the fact that they moved the house and the fact that everything’s left the same, like, I love that kind of stuff.


[00:57:33] Kris: you and me both. . Yeah. And, and that was one of the things that, that we wanted to really delve into because, um, you know, I wanted to see if the spirits moved with the house and, uh, and, and, and not stayed with the land. And they did right. Mon Fred, I do believe that their spirits moved with the house.

And the reason being is they had no ties to the land. Right. They, they were nomadic, they were gangsters. They were nomadic in life. And so for me, why not stay with the, the location where you died. Um, and, and so that’s the reason why, cause I have a lot of people asking, you know, why didn’t you investigate the land, the actual property one, I couldn’t get onto it.

Cuz the owners said no. Um, but for me they, they, they wouldn’t be with the land. Right. They, they had no ties to it. So I was pretty sure that if anything was gonna be haunted, it was gonna be the house.

[00:58:22] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, definitely. It’s kind of like if you’re a Noma, you don’t care about where you are at. You’re just.

Hopping around. And then other people it’s like if they were born and raised and stayed where they grew up, then they’re tied to the land cuz it’s familiar and mm-hmm uh, you know, you get people that end up moving back to where they were born and raised. Cuz they just like the is just something about it.

That just the experience of growing up. So yeah. I definitely agree with you there. So I’ll ask one more question and that is if you could go and there’s no restrictions, no nothing. What would your next, uh, like dream investigation B.

[00:59:10] Kris: Oh, I’d love to go international. Um, I would love to get over to Ireland.

There’s a castle there called leap castle. That’s definitely the, the number one location on my bucket list and really anywhere in, in Europe, in London. Um, I’ve been there several times as a tourist, but not as a paranormal investigator. And, you know, I, I love American history. There’s everything about American history fascinates me, but you know, obviously Europe has that longevity that we just don’t have here.

And so when you go into a, a castle or, um, you know, somewhere that is from the 19 or from the 16 hundreds or the 15 hundreds, you know, that to me is absolutely fascinating. So getting over to Ireland, to England, um, to Europe in general, that would definitely be bucket list locations for me. Um, there’s a plantation in, uh, Australia called the Monte Christo plantation.

Uh, again, that’s a place I’ve been to as a tourist, but not as a paranormal investigator. It has a lot of haunting reports. So I’d love to get over there. and really just any place here in the us that has, uh, an interesting legend or lore, um, you know, someplace that we investigate, you know, even from, you know, small houses to jails, to cemeteries, uh, all of it to me really is really fascinating.

So, um, you know, for me, I, I always have voice recorders in K two meters in my car. Just if, if an I impromptu investigation occurs, cuz it is just, all of it is just fascinating.

[01:00:35] Jeremiah: Oh yeah. You never know when you might need to break ’em out and exactly. take a look and I’m into the whole UFO phenomenon. So like it’s kind of similar, I guess, in the fact that it could happen anywhere anytime.

So a lot of people like to be prepared and try to have a, their camera ready. Something, so they can capture it.

[01:00:59] Kris: mm-hmm oh, absolutely. You have to be ready.

[01:01:02] Jeremiah: yep. So thank you for coming on. And speaking with us, we covered a lot of ground and very interesting stories and definitely, um, like what you’re doing.

I hope you keep it up and, uh, keep the scientific approach. Uh, like I said, I don’t like using that term, but in this instance it’s like, yeah, you’re trying to make it as real as possible without, you know, fantasizing, I guess. And yeah. Just keep up the good work and, um, definitely good to have you

[01:01:35] Kris: on. Well, thank you, Jeremiah.

I, I appreciate it.

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Pursuit of the Paranormal

Pursuit of the Paranormal

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[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow terrestrials. And welcome back. Thank you for tuning in. We’re gonna get to this thought provoking episode with Greg and Ash from pursuit of the paranormal in just a moment. But first, if you enjoy the content and enjoy the show, make sure to subscribe or add it to your list. So that way you get every episode that comes out, when it comes out, you’ll be able to listen to it right away.

You can also contact me if you like to be a guest on the show, or just like to talk with me at www dot. What if hit up the contact page? I respond to all emails in a timely manner. So let’s get with Greg and Ash, the pursuit of the paranormal, and talk about everything paranormal and remember question everything.


Hello, and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast, I’m your host. Jeremiah. I’m joined today by two of my favorites, Greg and Ash. And we’re gonna be talking about all kinds of French topics and, uh, we’re gonna get really into some stuff. And. It’ll be a fun hour. So I’ll introduce them now. Hello, Greg and Ash.

[00:01:42] Greg: Hello? Hello. Nice to speak to you again. I’m traveling as well. Yes.

[00:01:47] Jeremiah: Yeah. It’s been a long time. So it has,

[00:01:49] Greg: it has, and you’ve, you’ve been on our podcast and we chat regularly on messenger or Instagram or, uh, socials anyway.

[00:02:00] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, definitely. Um, just for my audience, these guys have really helped me a lot in my podcasting journey.

uh, I wouldn’t be where I’m at now without ’em. So I’m honored to have you guys on and they’ve got what, the number two ranked paranormal podcast.

[00:02:22] Greg: Us.

[00:02:22] Ash: Yeah, it was a couple months. Yeah. We were like, we were like 10 Clement third. We went seconds. So in the APO magazine podcast charts. So that’s pretty cool.

Just to be up there with some of the big sort of podcast names. That’s pretty awesome. And thanks. Obviously you having a desire, you’ve been doing a great job yourself, so kudos to you. Yeah,

[00:02:40] Greg: definitely.

[00:02:41] Jeremiah: Yeah. My show’s been really, uh, taken off and it’s, uh, fun to see, and I’m starting to get messages from audience members and, uh, I just love hearing from people and whether they want to be on the show or just talk, it’s, uh, good to get some recognition and know that people are enjoying the content.

[00:03:03] Greg: Yeah, definitely. I, I listen to the, the podcast as well. I, um, when I’m out and about, I have a listen, so I check in Wrigley, I’ve listened to, to quite a few of ’em recently as well. And I was listening to one, um, I can’t remember the guy you were speaking to. Uh, and he was.

um, UFOs, paranormal, crypted, all being, um, interdimensional. And it, you were talking about his thoughts on that. Um, and that really stuck, it struck a chord. Uh, with me and me and Ash have discussed it. Um, we, we speak to podcast people all time and, and guests, and, and that seems to be sort of the route. A lot of people are going down as an explanation, um, for sort of the missing link between everything and what it could be.


[00:03:55] Jeremiah: yeah, that was cool. Definitely. Uh, just me personally makes more sense, uh, to look at it that way now that’s not the. That they might be from other planets, but they use interdimensional travel. So I’m open to that theory as well. Yeah. But, um, I just, I don’t know. I feel there’s a, there’s definitely some type of way they can phase in and out of what we can perceive.

[00:04:23] Greg: So is, is called the, um, The, that that’s kind of the, the thought process we’ve had and the guests have had on our podcast and also the kind of conversations you are having. I also liked an episode that you did and you interviewed a lady, um, who had some harrowing sort of abduction experiences. And her daughter was starting to have them as well.

And it was all a bit. Dark for them, but, um, yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. So you’ve had some really emotion interview. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Anytime anybody sort of opens up about experiences like that, it’s not necessarily an easy subject for them to talk about. Um, and that’s what we enjoy on when we are recording our podcast that you get people on that are not necessarily comfortable sharing it within their peer.

Publicly. Yeah, but the, the, the podcast like ours, like yours gives people a bit of a, almost like an anonymous forum that they can go onto, uh, and reach like-minded people. So that’s that? That’s cool. That’s cool.

[00:05:36] Ash: And a lot of times it was the first time they spoke and to everybody about. and they just sort of like this.

You can see the belief in the face where they’ve S like I’ve actually told someone and they’re not gonna think I’m crazy for saying it. So it’s good to have to give that platform to people. It’s an honor was to allow people to do that. It’s some people did it cuz they don’t know anybody and don’t have anywhere else to turn and they come to us, which is just an honor.

[00:06:01] Jeremiah: and I apologize. I’m so rude. Uh, I forgot to say that you’re from the pursuit of the paranormal podcast. Yes, we are. Totally

[00:06:10] Greg: that’s right. Lost over that. Oh, don’t worry about that. We are keen just to get in and get chatting.

[00:06:16] Ash: yeah. We’re not here to south. Well by that’s. No, definitely not.

[00:06:18] Greg: We’re we are here to, uh, yeah.

Have a chat to like-minded people like yourself.

[00:06:24] Jeremiah: So, um, through your podcast, uh, what’s been some of your like favorite topics to cover. Favorite like stories that you can recall. Wow.

[00:06:33] Greg: I know you’ve been doing at a while, but yeah. So we regularly talked to people about all sorts of different things. So we’ve recently talked to somebody about time slips.

Um, we talked to somebody which was really interesting and there’s something that we’ve touched on a couple of times where people sort of, all of a sudden are like in a different. Era, they could have gone back like 50 years or just by walking for a door, blows my mind, how you could just sort of open a door and just be somewhere, some time out.

Um, which is odd. But I think for me the times when we are, we are talking, um, to guests about it. We’ve had a guy, a guy called Michael that reached out to us. and the whole thing was completely weird. We had, um, you know, when you send an email to somebody and you spell it wrong or whatever, it, it says this, you get a, like a Microsoft thing back and it says you can, this email can’t be reached.

We actually had that from our email on an email it’s sent to us saying that the email couldn’t be sent to. It’s very strange but I had the message in, so I contacted the guy back and we, we went backwards and forth for a little bit. And then we got him on, we talked to him twice about some like nightly abductions he’s having from, from aliens or entities.

Uh, we went through his life of paranormal. Into the entity stuff. A friend requested both me and Ash on Facebook. Like we, like, we all do. We all sort of like touch base with each other. Um, then all of a sudden he’s not, doesn’t appear to be on Facebook anymore. Not been able to get hold of him at all. It says like, he’s just completely vanished again.

He sort of came in weirdly. left Willy. So he’s been one of our favorite ones, cuz like we are doing now and the people on the podcast, when they’re listening to this podcast, we we’re actually having a face to face conversation on like a Skype type program. So, um, you can see people’s reactions and you can see a lot of the time whether or not somebody seems to.

Hm, pulling a wool over your eyes that we say in the UK or, or lying or whatever. Um, and this guy just looked completely genuine. There was times when it went really dark and he was talking about the mental darkness he’s faced as part of his journey with these, these creatures. Um, and that, that doesn’t necessarily come across in the audio.

So that that’s the, that was probably one of. Most favorite ones, just purely from the fact that the way it all came about and mysteriously so vanished afterwards. But, but you Ash.

[00:09:35] Ash: Well, I was just looking through our episode list and just to sort of trying and recap, cuz we have been, been doing this for getting closer two years and over about 150 episodes.

I just it’s been a lot and it’s quite hard to think sort of a favorite, but one that sort of stuck with me. One of our earlier ones, when we spoke to John Edmond, A starers ranch. Oh yeah. No. That, so that Greg could sort of follow the story for years, been trying to get a hold of him for a long time. We finally got hold of him.

And his whole story of starers ranch is similar to skin Walker ranch, but in Arizona, and he had like strange creatures on the property. Uh, he gets attacked by gray aliens, which he kills with some saw. He tries to stop his wife and being an adopted. on a regular basis and this other sort of panel activity going on all on this ranch.

And just to talk to him about his experiences that have been going on for what is like 20 odd years mm-hmm on the ranch. Yeah. He’d never changed his story. He’s never been to like try and get fame or entering from it. It’s just, this is his story and that’s sort, and that was one of our first episodes.

Well put in the first couple months. Yeah. And that’s the sort of one that we go back to quite a lot, just because of. Who the guest was and the whole story that sort of, when that sort of stuck through me, aside from that one is we’ve had quite a lot of mediums on his guests. And that’s something that as sort of more UFO guy hadn’t really thought any sort of history of that side of the paranormal.

And I could, we had quite a lot of different mediums on different types of medium ships and different experiences. Just hearing all the. sort of gifts that they have been able to contact others and the message and that they give that’s, what’s been sort of, eye-opening just to hear all the different types of mediumship that’s been going on.

So probably that’s my favorite type of episodes at the minute. Really?

[00:11:27] Jeremiah: Yeah. It’s um, it’s fun to go down different paths. And the good thing about paranormal is it encompasses so much that yeah, you’re not stuck to one specific topic. There’s so much. Stuff out there and so many different people that experience different things.

And so what’s your guys’ take on cuz it’s my favorite thing is, uh, what’s your guys’ take on the whole like alien UFO abduction phenomenon. I know we touched on it a little, but

[00:12:00] Ash: it’s, I mean, it is hard to know because there’s so many stories and so many experiences. and a lot of them are similar. They just, it’s hard to ignore the fact that so many people having these experiences and these some cases there is evidence in terms of like time missing and marks and the bodies and even implants in some cases, and people are people just like, wipe it up and say, nah, it’s, it’s so bullshit.

So made up, but you can’t ignore just a multitude. okay. From all around the world. Like there’s some famous cases in the UK, in the us all over the world and this, I mean something to it. I mean, I like, I, I kind of do like the, sort of the XFiles the way they did it, whereas it was the government sort of pretending to be something else and taken, which could be, which could be what’s happening here.

Um, but I mean, it’s fascinating. I mean, duction is one that I’ve, um, sort of locked into quite a large part of my UFR. And we’ve done a few like articles on different abductions and sort of less than known sort of abduction cases. And there’s a lot that have a lot of evidence to go with him. Like there’s one case in Australia where there’s long story short, there was a family, a couple that had a friend staying over.

And the, the, the female friend heard the, the female couple screaming shout for help. She runs into the room and she sees her basically in a beam of light and she disappears. And then, so she wakes the husband up, they call the police, they come out to search the land on this sort of property. Can’t find anything to get a random phone call a couple hours later, and it’s from the female and she’s like 500 miles away at a petrol station.

She had just been dumped like the side of the road, managed to walk, to find a Petro station. They called the police in that part of Australia where she was now, you confirm that she was with him there with her, and she’s in this place, this place 500 miles away. But there no way she could have got from that building to 500 miles away in that space of time.

And again, there was some sort of physical evidence. Property as well. So it’s just one case where not where people heard of it, but she was like, it’s fact that she was there and then she was suddenly found hundred miles away and it’s space a couple, couple hours later. There’s no way she could have got in a car and traveled that distance.

So it’s just a really, that’s just a really interesting case that I love about you, Greg. What’s your abduction.

[00:14:43] Greg: So like you say, there’s so many. It like people and accounts of it happening. And you’ve got the famous ones, um, got Travis Walton. Um, we’ve also spoke to a guy called Philip Canella who had his own experience in his house when he was younger and even refused to, to talk about some of the experience because of the nature of what they did to him.

Um, and. I dunno it, why not? If we are open to think that we are being visited by whatever, then why wouldn’t they be? Know you’d put up a post on your Facebook about, uh, with a picture of somebody being sort of drawn up into a beamed up here and you’re asking. Uh, like what, what do you think it is?

And I put down, um, it’s PO possibly a future. Us coming back. They’re doing tests on us to find out what went wrong, to get, get to whatever it is in the future. So that maybe that’s a, a thought on it. It’s definitely some kind of experiment of some kind of sample taking appears to go on. Like you said, Ash, people have got marks.

Some people. So their experience being like on a operating table and they can see these creatures, um, over them. And it’s, I dunno, uh, if I’m open to believe everything else that I, I like to, to look at and we read into, and, and we discuss on the podcast, why wouldn. I think that abductions take place. And I, I think I’ve heard enough stories from people in their experiences that something’s definitely happening to these people.

What is, who knows? I don’t think you’ll ever know unless you are, it happens to you. Um, but it doesn’t seem impossible if, if we’d been visited by whoever.

[00:17:00] Jeremiah: yeah, I actually saw a, um, program. I can’t remember what it was. It was on TV, but, um, and it showed like a computer generated like graphic, I guess, of like what people would look like if like evolution kept happening with like us staring at screens all the time, our eyes would get bigger.

Uh, we would start eating less, so our mouse would get smaller and it ended up turning into like what you would think as a classical gray. So that was really interesting and ties into your theory of them possibly being from the future and coming back. And maybe that’s why they’re so secretive too, is they can’t really be known

[00:17:46] Greg: mm-hmm so was it, it was wasn’t it a famous astronaut on UK TV, Nolan.

Talked about future humans. Was it? We were discussing it Ash. Yeah.

[00:17:56] Ash: Tim, Tim peak mentioned it. Tim peak, peak morning television, but like he’s, he’s NAU and he’s become bit of a celebrity in the UK being like one of our astronauts going to the space station. So he’s quite high profile. Like the morning TV of show HES on is like what’s by millions.

And we was talking about one of the recent developments in the us and talking to him about it. He was talking about like the different fears about you mentioned in dimensional. It could be that you mentioned it could be future humans. And it was taught like in a serious manner. It wasn’t like jokingly.

He was saying like, I believe it could be this. This is from like going from natural, like astronaut that’s well respected. So it’s just cool to hear him talking about it in like that way. It was pretty.

[00:18:37] Jeremiah: all right. So we’ll

[00:18:38] Ash: what you meant and what you, yeah, go ahead. So I was gonna say, what, what, what you mentioned then about, um, the future humans and the way that we evolve.

I was listening to an anthropologist a while ago and he was talking about how we sort of became how we appear now and it’s and how we became sort of intelligent. It’s because we stood up is that we are the only like creature on earth that stood up. Then, because we stood up two legs. the gap at the back of our heads widened and that allowed our brain to grow bigger and that allowed us to gain more intelligence.

As we evolved, our brains became bigger. Obviously we evolved into homo sapiens now and obviously very intelligent species, but because we stand up, we get a lot of back problems as a species, but that’s the genetic sort of evolution is gonna give you a bad back back problems. Cause you’re standing up in two feet rather than.

But the plus side is you have the bigger brain and you’re able to evolve and survive because you have big intelligence. So you fall that forward. Like you say, the head getting bigger, like sort of the gray alien, typical gray alien got sort of the big heads cause you have a bigger brain. So it’s just, again, further down the evolution trait is the bigger head with the bigger brain, the bigger eyes from the screens.

So it just sort of tie in with that. And if, if we hadn’t stood up like a million millions of years, We’ve still been and like something crawling and all falls, like the rest of the creatures are, they are. So it’s just sort of, it does tie into that. They’re

[00:20:05] Greg: also, um, evolution is happening to humans as we speak as well because children are now being born without wisdom teeth, because there’s no.

Yeah. So they, they reckon children’s faces. The shape of children’s faces is gonna change over the years because we’re all born with wisdom. Already and they just sort of move and whatnot over the years, but children are now being born without ’em cuz we don’t need them.

[00:20:36] Jeremiah: It is wild to think

[00:20:38] Greg: about yeah.

It’s odd. Completely odd.

[00:20:41] Jeremiah: Yeah. So, um, I guess that’s a good segue into old Bigfoot phenomenon. so I’m gonna have to ask the same thing about that since we’re talking about preachers standing up and all. Um, what’s your guys’ take on the whole Bigfoot phenomenon. What do you, what do you think you think they’re real?

You think they’re out there? Do you think they’re like leftover homage or are they like inter dimensional beings? And then I’ve heard some things where they like, kind of a, are seen with UFOs and stuff like that. So, uh, I’ll hear your guys take on that.

[00:21:21] Ash: Greg’s got the t-shirt on. So like you got, I saw that.

[00:21:24] Jeremiah: Yeah. Oh, there it goes. so he’s got the big foot in UFO t-shirt

[00:21:29] Greg: yeah, yeah. Available on our website. Um, just a little plug. So, um, at the start of this journey that me and Ash have been on at the start of the podcast. It wasn’t something that I really knew much about really put, I thought it was more of like a romantic type of idea that there’s this unknown species in the woods, blah, blah, blah.

But the more we, we talk about it and we more, we speak to experts. People who’ve had experiences. There definitely seems to be something in it, even in the UK. Which we don’t have half, well, a tiny speck of the percentage of wild life, um, and wilderness that you guys have over in the states. There’s still reports of similar type creatures in the UK.

I think the only way we can explain some of that is inter dimens. Alien related. So UFO related, there are hotspots where, um, crypted are spotted, um, with UFOs and other kind of experiences at the same time. As you talk about SDU ranch, similar type thing happen there, ski Walker ranch. They’ve had Creek just coming out of portals over the ranch.

So I’m more of a believer now than I was right. The.

[00:23:06] Ash: Yeah. So similar to Greg, like I’ve always had an interest in the whole Bigfoot of things. Didn’t think it could be in the UK, but there’s literally hundreds of reports that are from the UK and from some of the places where you think there’s no way, like there’d be a small park for bit Woodland.

And it’s surrounded by housing states yet. There’s like multiple reports of Bigfoot sighting. It’s like how it’s like middle of a housing state, surrounded by houses there. No way it could go. But if you look at the, in dimensional aspect of it, it easy. If its, if he just come in and go in, dimension’s a dimension.

There’s no reason why it can’t be in that small park. It does explain sort of how they can seen. I’m actually a member of the Bigfoot research team, UK. We go out into the, the forest, we set up the equipment, we talk to different people that have had experiences. We take sort of sightings reports and like similar.

The last topic abduction there’s that many reports independent of each other, even going back hundreds and thousands of years, similar reports from different parts of the world. Like there has to be something like we, we, we done episodes on yawe in Australia and some of the, like sort of before the Brits came over and sort of the aboriginals, they had folk long legends going back hundreds and hundreds of years of eight.

and like, and he would be like, sort of, they kept away from each other. They respected each other sort of land. That was his land. They did it en croach. They did it en croach into the humans land. And this case is from like native American time where they reported seeing a moon shape in the sky and monkeys coming out of the mood.

So that’s like, that’s how they describe. And it was like monkeys coming out of the moon was when you try and sort of think of how we would. Interpret that is a craft in the sky and Bigfoot coming outta the craft. That’s kind of what they’re describing when they’re saying this all monkeys coming out of the moon in the sky, like, and it’s like, obviously if people say like UFOs drop off Bigfoot, it’s like a pet or they do, they abduct Bigfoot the same as they abduct humans to do experiments and stuff.

So again, that link is just there. Always whatever sort of avenue you go down. If it’s Bigfoot, abduction, UFOs over crypted UFOs, are there there’s other aspects of the paranormal is always there. It’s never sort of isolated cases. It’s too the all interconnected one way or another. You can’t have one about the other.

It seems the more we look into it.

[00:25:49] Greg: and there’s a new documentary has just come out. I will just plug them cuz I know they’re we’ve uh, they’re coming on my show. Yeah. Are they secret to the Sasquatch by Dockside media, Chris and Tyler. Um, it’s awesome guys, but their documentary. Um, we really enjoyed that.

I, I, I was really, it was a good take on the. Sort of the big, first Sasquatch sort of phenomena, uh, and their, the experiences of people they interviewed have had. So that’s cool. So check out everybody.

[00:26:25] Jeremiah: Yeah. I watched that too, and I like how they went different angles. Like it wasn’t just one angle at it.

There was multiple cause they had the Sue Walker on there again, and yep. She had a different angle and. Then you had the guy from, I think Pennsylvania actually, that was like very like straight laced. And he’s like, I don’t know. I, I believe they’re out here, but you know, he wasn’t into like the fantasizing of it or anything.

He was very like straightforward and I was actually just talking to a guy, um, and he had a different theory of Bigfoot and he said that, what if, cuz we were talking about hollow. And, um, he said, what if they just live in the cave systems and stuff that we don’t venture into, and then they pop out from time to time to wander around.

And you know, it just, I never thought about that before. So it made me think like, oh yeah, that’s actually a good theory. yeah.

[00:27:29] Ash: I suppose in America you have, what are they called? Like the massive underground cave or something it’s called. Like when you look at the actual map of American where the caves actually.

And how far they stretch on the ground is just phenomenal. Like obviously lots of people got missing trying to explore it. And a lot of it is just UN explored. Like, yeah, it’s a legitimate reason. And again, in the UK, it’s a similar thing where you can get from city to city on the ground in abandoned coal mines in old railways aren’t used anymore.

And it just natural K formations. You can’t get across many miles on the. that aren’t generally humans don’t generally go down there. Cause it’s all black D it’s unsafe. It’s just unexplored. So yeah, again, you could explain it both the UK and America as well, but America does have the mass. Is it called the massive K system?


[00:28:19] Jeremiah: not exactly what it’s called. I know we have a bunch of different

[00:28:22] Ash: case. It’s got a good hyper bowl. I think I it’s actually cool. Massive something like I’m sure it’s,

[00:28:28] Jeremiah: it’s something like that, but there’s like Cape systems, like all over the states. Not too far from me. There’s LaRay caverns, and there are massive tunnel systems and you can actually take tours down there and you can’t get to every part, but they’ll take you to like the main parts.

And I know in the, uh, Northwest and Midwest, there’s a bunch of CA systems. So ,

[00:28:55] Greg: what’s your take on Bigfoot then? What do you think he did? Um, she.

[00:29:02] Jeremiah: So I think they are leftover hoed. So like, um, you know, how you see in magazines or national geographic or wherever, like they found like Lucy skeleton and then there was like Australia pit the scene and all that.

I think there’s some type of branch of early ed and, um, they just happened to escape slaughter. They take refuge in cave systems and in the deep woods where people don’t really venture. And, uh, then of course you have like Yeti and they’re in like the mountain mountainous regions that there’s not a lot of people and south America, I’m sure they have in the Amazon and stuff like that.

So that’s my take on it. I think they’re just left over and the whole alien connection, maybe. The aliens are just abducting them and doing tests on them, just like they are us. And maybe we’re both products of alien DNA tampering. Yeah.

[00:30:09] Greg: Maybe, maybe

[00:30:12] Ash: we, I think one thing when we did our, a first episode actually on yai and we talked about all the different ones, like you got the year in big, uh, Yeti, Bigfoot yai, all different ones like China, India, all these different places.

Well, and there are very similar in descriptions are very similar in behavior and sort of place where live. It’s always like forest regions or mountain regions. And obviously so many thousand millions of years ago before the constant split, it could have all been sort of together. And obviously, obviously going back a long time, but as the continent have split and come apart, they obviously then evolved into their own sort of sub species of the same.

The for five sort of thing. And it is like they all come back to the same ancestor. I think that’s the way I’m looking for originally before, like the content split. Cuz when you look at your parts and from basically from hundreds and hundreds years ago, how does someone in Australia sort of know about Bigfoot in America?

Whereas if it happened today, you think, oh, this was ready on the internet now gonna make up a. Based on what someone saw in America, but hundreds and thousands of years ago, and two different communities on different parts of the world that don’t know your exists yet, both reporting, seeing the same type of creature acting the same way.

They it’s not, they’re not really in the newspaper. They’re just, they’re having them experiences. They are both saying something independently of each other. So it’s gotta be something, something. Yeah, I have a

[00:31:47] Jeremiah: wild theory and, uh, it’s just my personal theory and it might be rubbish, but like panga, like you said, when everything was together, all the land masses, what if, what if all the like, pyramids around the world and all that stuff happened during that time?

And then the cataclysm happened and they all spread apart. Like you were. And, um, that’s why there’s so much similarities and so many different stories, but, um, they’re all similar, but in different regions of the world, it’s just, you know, like I said, a crazy theory that I think about.

[00:32:29] Greg: Yeah, cuz there’s a lot of like temples and buildings, like specifically like pyramids and like the Aztecs have got a certain kind of building and there you can see stuff like that in other, um, civilizations across the world that couldn’t have known about each other like that like cash was talking about.

So how could any of that have all happened? And, yeah, it’s, it’s just as likely, like you said, it all happened at the same. And then it all splits and that’s why it’s they’re apart or there’s something in it.

[00:33:03] Jeremiah: But yeah. And if you throw like, um, biblical reference in like, maybe that was part of like the tower of babble when they were trying to, you know, build something to God or something, and they got, uh, spread apart in different languages and stuff, like.

I don’t know. I’m just trying to tie it all together.

[00:33:24] Greg: Yeah. It’s, it’s just such a, like a massive rabbit hole when you think, right. How can all this be? How can it all be linked? It’s there’s so many ways you can sort of go off and think about, is it aliens? Is it, I dunno, re civilization of the world. We’ve we’ve gone extinct and we’ve been repopulated and it’s just the old stuff.

And it’s.

[00:33:51] Ash: Or the universe was created yesterday and it it’s all, all been implanted memory. We we’d have no way of knowing mm-hmm if we weren’t all created today.

[00:34:01] Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Tom DeLong is going down the hall. Everything. There’s no history. No past. Present doesn’t exist. Oh, sorry. There’s no past there’s no future.

All time is happening right now. So everything that’s ever happened and everything that will never happen. It’s. so like you say, Ash, we just, it

[00:34:22] Jeremiah: is what it is. So what, what do you guys think about it’s becoming very popular now, like this simulation theory where we’re in a simulation.

[00:34:33] Greg: I tell you what I picked up a shitty character.

If that’s a, how did I get somebody else to work all the time? but yeah, I don’t, I don’t see what. let’s say anything seems to be on the table for me now, the, the more we look into stuff, the less we seem to get closer to the answer. It just seems a little bit further away. Um,

[00:34:59] Ash: I’m up, it’s like the pat the patterns in nature, and like now they’re getting small and smaller.

They’re splitting the atom and they’re splitting the small atoms and the quantum nano. Getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Then when they do, you know, they’re getting smaller and smaller when they open it up. So to speak, it’s the same sort of pattern as what was there, but just on a minuscule, can’t even think about how small we actually, they actually are, but they still have so much inside them.

And it’s just,

how, how can it be.

[00:35:40] Greg: Um, yeah, you only have to look at the, um, the James web space, telescope pictures to, to, to try and figure out how small we are in the grand scheme of things. And we are pathetically small. So going down to that atomic level, and like you said, there’s patterns and everything. How is math.

a thing. Maths seems to be the explain, um, allows us to work out everything. And I,

[00:36:14] Jeremiah: yeah, it’s like, like a code. Yeah. And then you get like, um, there’s people that are into, like, I forget what it’s called numerology and stuff like that. And they can find like number patterns, everything like from like sports betting to like biblical code and it all like breaks down the math mathematics.

So weird.

[00:36:35] Greg: Yeah. The, the Bible code is, is good. It’s I’ve read a couple of books on the Bible code and how people finding stuff in that is just . I dunno. And, but yeah. How, how, how, it’s another possibility of everything that’s happening is we are in a simulation

[00:36:56] Ash: and we can, we can create now like artificial communities, artificial sort of inte.

It’s, it’s not too far beyond a step for them to become sort of not self-aware but self living and where they’re all sort of living alive, even though they’re created by us. So that’s only a little step beyond where we are now in the fact that we could create us like humanity in a microchip. And is that all we are, could be easily, could be.

That would

[00:37:32] Jeremiah: be pretty sad. Like you said,

[00:37:35] Greg: we just did a big Petri dish that explains flat troll me,

[00:37:39] Jeremiah: needs to step up their game.

[00:37:42] Greg: yeah. Throw some more coins my way.

[00:37:47] Jeremiah: it is a fun theory to think about though. It’s like, what if we are, I’ll just the coded program that’s running and maybe not controlled by anybody, but just set to run and we’re just living out whatever code it.

It. .

[00:38:03] Greg: Yeah, definitely. It’s just, it’s a good theory. Is any other theory? I

[00:38:07] Jeremiah: suppose, cause there’s like times in my life that like, it feels like it was like preordained to happen. Like there was no way around doing whatever, whatever event it is. It’s like, It, I had a choice, I guess, but not really. It doesn’t feel like , it’s almost like it was meant to be regardless.

[00:38:27] Greg: Yeah. So whichever choice you fixed point in time. Yeah. So wherever, whichever choice you made was still gonna, it was still gonna happen. So me and Ash, when we started the podcast, we, we met through like a mutual appreciation of poker. Then since then we’ve had guests on, they live in places where like down the road from me, but they’re the same place in America, like names of cities and towns.

Like we speak to Chris and Tyler, um, from Dockside media and it turns out they they’re local to you. We’ve spoken to yeah, they’re from my hometown or it’s just insane. Speak to loads of people we’re talking. Somebody who was recommended to us the other day. He belongs to like, the Oxford paranormals is like in America.

Oxford’s like 10 minutes from me in the UK. Just all these weird things. We interviewed a guest and he grew up in the same village that my best friend grew up in. We spent, we would’ve been roughly around the same time in the same village. It’s just like loads of weird things happen. we have weird experiences, me and Ash on our recordings, weird stuff happens it.

I said to him the other day I said something like it, like lo loads of weird stuff happens that we like, we seem to be on a path. So for you just saying now, um, that ties in with what me and Ash were, were talking about the other day. It was just like a random, late night message. I sent him. whilst they’re high on my prescription pages.

There’s a lot of coincidences. Yeah.

[00:40:11] Ash: Yeah. There’s a lot of coincidences.

[00:40:13] Greg: Yeah. Let’s just say that. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Very straight. Yeah. It’s like

[00:40:17] Jeremiah: my podcast, like before I did this, I tried to do like a video game website type of thing, and everything just seemed so hard, like to get it going and do all the work for it and stuff like that.

So I gave up on that and then I was like, I wanna do a podcast. And I was thinking like, what I could talk about. I was like, well, I’ve always been into, you know, X piles type stuff. So I was like, I’m gonna do a podcast about that. And everything just seemed so to flow so easy and everything just kind of like lined up and it’s still like snowballing.

I feel like, and it’s almost like, like I said, it’s, uh, destined to happen. And whereas the video game website wasn’t meant to happen. That’s why I had so much resistance to like, get it going. Yeah. It’s just odd. It’s weird.

[00:41:11] Greg: I feel you there. I’ve um, yeah, I’ve thought I’ve had ideas in the past and it’s just like, everything just seems so difficult.

Then met Ash and it’s just. nonstop. We just, we just think

[00:41:26] Ash: we didn’t even like plan anything. We didn’t even talk, talk each other that didn’t really even know each other. And then he just messing me and said, you wanna start a podcast? pretty much sounds like it was two weeks later. We had a podcast and now it’s like nearly two years.

I’m 200 episodes nearly. It’s just don’t know what’s happening. It’s just crazy.

[00:41:47] Jeremiah: Yeah. It’s weird. Yeah. The synchronicities. like, um, my fiance and I were talking about how, like, you could be talking about someone and then they pop up sure enough. And like, where does that come from? Because it happens all the time.

[00:42:02] Greg: Yeah. My, my daughter keeps talking about manifestations and manifesting stuff and like talking about stuff, mate makes it happen. So I D I dunno if I’m quite that far down the line with believing that, but weird, weird stuff does seem to. For

[00:42:19] Ash: definite, we were talking with Tyler actually from duck side last week about, so is there some sort of lost gift that humans have that would just give food evolution or food?

Other things have sort of lost it where you can connect on a, obviously on a subconscious level with other people, like we’re talking about, like you can sort of feel when someone’s staring at you, you know, you can’t see it. You’re, there’s some sort of, part of you. Recognize if someone’s looking at you, and they’re saying that when someone talks about you, your ears burn, these different things, somebody say about thinking about someone and suddenly they call you or they message you.

Maybe you are thinking of them. So there’s somehow think of you in return. That message does get to ’em. Cause you’re thinking about them and there’s that gift that humans have that maybe mediums still have it, but majority of people don’t have that. We’ve not we’ve lost it or we’ve closed the fair eye or whoever they refer to it.

And then, but that’s is still on some level it’s still there. So you’re thinking about them somehow. They picked up on that however many miles where they are thought, oh, and, and seeing J away, that’s a text him. See how he is. And it’s because you were thinking of them and somehow they’ve picked up on that and some wavelength somewhere that, cause obviously all atoms are connected, getting closer again in science to, is it quantum or quacks or whatever it is where you can two atoms, not connected.

They can control all in different, I think like 20 feet away or they’ve got the distance they’ve got so far or something under where they can connect. we have nothing. I dunno what I’m talking about anymore, but it it’s, that fair sounded good where it’s sounding good or every atom is every, every atom is connected.

Yeah. Um, and again, like we are built from, at homes, you get us down to the basic level. We’re just bits of hydrogen and oxygen and carbon. We’re the same as a tree or whatever. Literally,

[00:44:18] Jeremiah: basically it’s all like energy.

[00:44:21] Ash: Whoa. Yeah. It’s all energy. So it’s some sort of lost gift that we can, we just don’t have that gift anymore, if that makes sense.

But I just .

[00:44:32] Jeremiah: Yeah. Cause I heard about, um, there’s this thing called, like the cosmic download where people say that if you like meditate a certain way or um, you can like tap into this universal knowledge, that’s out there just floating around and. they can some, that’s why they think like, some people like Nicola, Tesla, and Einstein, they were able to like tap into that, like universal like knowledge and like, that’s why they drew all those like theories and inventions and stuff like that.

And it kind of goes into like, I don’t know, I would, I used to watch basketball a lot and there was games where, and this was when Al and Iverson was in the league. And. He was a very famous, uh, basketball player here in the states. But, uh, it was like, he couldn’t miss the basket. Like you would score. You’d be like, how the hell did he make that shot?

And it was like, he was tapped into some higher level of consciousness or something that like, and then there was nights where he was just cold. Like he couldn’t hit anything and, or couldn’t score at all. And it’s just a crazy thing

[00:45:45] Greg: to think about. Yeah, definitely definit. It’s a crazy world. Don’t it?

[00:45:52] Jeremiah: so if you guys, um, are there any like dream guests or any topics that you still wanna cover or someone you want to talk to?

Like if you could get any guests on, who would your pick me?

[00:46:11] Greg: Good question. So we’ve had, we’ve had had a few people and there is one guest that I’ve always wanted. But I, I don’t really think he certainly, nowadays doesn’t really fit with, with what the podcast is. So I’ve been a long time sort of follow of the work of David Ike.

David Ike is, um,

wow. Wow. He. It’s very difficult to explain David Ike but back in the eighties, I know, I know he’s used to listen to him. Yeah. So he’s got a lot of good theories about a lot of stuff and a lot of weird theories about a lot of weird stuff. Um, but I. I think he’d be very interesting guest for anybody who who’s aware of him.

He definitely is a polarizing figure. People will ever like him or I don’t like him. I’ve got a lot of his books, which talk about lot of coincidences in conspiracy theories, which isn’t something we really touch on in our podcast. Um, and it’s just fascinating to see his process behind it. And he, he was talking years ago, like 20 years ago about.

High profile pedophiles in the UK and politicians and, um, celebrities. And everybody was saying, ask rubbish, that’s rubbish. And now we’ve got this thing called operation. in the UK where all these top celebrities from like the sixties, seventies and eighties, um, are all tumbling because they’ve all been found that they’ve been touching kids or acting inappropriately with minors.

Um, back in the early days of TV. um, and all the stuff he said about in those books is all like true. And he is like, if it was ever false, why are people not suing me? Cause they, they don’t want the truth to come out. So he’s a guess I’d really like to talk to, however, I don’t think we’d ever get him and be, you know, yeah.

It’s not, not really doesn’t fit in with the podcast anymore. That’s a long. Long

[00:48:21] Jeremiah: well, if I ever get him on as a guest, I’ll have you on his cohost. Yeah.

[00:48:26] Greg: Yeah, definitely. I’d love to chat to him. I’ve been fascinated by his work and he, he covers all like the aliens, reptilians energy, uh, conspiracies, all that kind of stuff.

So it’s some good stuff, but he’s got some way out theories that I don’t necessarily agree with. He,

[00:48:43] Jeremiah: he used to do, he used to do, um, like six, eight hour. Like, uh, conference things at the Wembley stadium. Yeah. Sold

[00:48:52] Greg: out stuff. Yeah. It’s just like insane. You’d get more people coming to him than some football teams in the UK soccer teams in states.


[00:49:01] Jeremiah: yeah, he’s one of the first ones I listened to when I started like looking into, you know, fringe stuff, same his

[00:49:08] Greg: P yeah, same, same. And he was ridiculed for a long time. Um, due to the way that the. sort of focused on the joke side of him being saying, he’s like the son of God and all this kind of stuff.

And he was just ridiculed, but, um, yeah, very polarizing figure. Um, how about you Ash? Sorry, I went on quite a bit there.

[00:49:35] Ash: sorry. So for me, I guess, I mean, I’m a pop punk email boy at heart, and I grew up listening to like blink 180 2 and green. Or type of bands and Tom DeLong still listening to play 180 2.

Tom’s not part of him anymore different singer, but Tom DeLong then obviously went into TSA and that’s like, my two loves just combined in Tom and the work he’s done and everything sort to, I mean, yeah, Tom DeLong would just be, cause he he’s mean he’s. Gone through aliens, even like the early days blink when I two, when he was still teenager and it interviews, he’s talking about crash retrieval and bodies and aliens and everything is, is been there his whole life.

And it’s obviously now had the money in the time fruit last few years is left the music well, did leave the music and then went into UFOs. Which why, why wouldn’t you wanna do that? You had the money and the time to do it. And then obviously now it’s gone back into music a bit more. Those airways, but yeah, Tom DeLong just, uh, he’s he’s like he, he knows a lot of stuff as well.

He knows a lot of high profile people, a lot of stuff. He’s not said that he knows that he can’t talk about and stuff and yeah, the starting would be a dream, a dream come true. He’s supposed to explain in the Manchester main in March gonna go, gonna go over sign saying like, thank you for TSA and everything.

Trying to see, like, so as I I’m one of those that I’ll wait for five hours after the gig for the, for them to come out and to see him and stuff, I’d be there. I’d wait, trying to, to see him, he canceled in the end. Um, but yeah, T long would be, I’ve

[00:51:12] Greg: got, I’ve got another one, got another one. It would never happen.

I for C Clark.

So he was the inventor of the communications S. He designed it back in wherever he, he move, he was an English guy, moved out to Sri Lanka, sort of retired and done all this stuff. But he had a program called AFC cloud’s world of strange mysteries. And that is the program that got me into this whole journey.

When I was younger, there was a, a story about a pot Geist, um, case, and it freaked me out completely. He was always talking about stigma, martyrs, and crystal skulls and all this kind of thing. That was the, the one part where I thought, actually, this stuff’s really fascinating. Started taking me he’s long time dead now.

I think he’s, he was in his nineties when he died, but that would be one, cuz that would be my proper fanboy moment. I think . How about you, Jeremiah? Yeah. Who’s your ideal guest? Who would you be looking for?

[00:52:17] Jeremiah: Oh man. Um, it’d probably be hard to get ’em on, but maybe not. I don’t know. Um, well the episode airing on Monday, tomorrow is one of my dream guests, LA Marzuk.

I just like the guy he’s very passionate. He’s got a different take on the whole alien and UFO thing. It’s not for everyone cuz he’s more religious based. So he’s more on the aliens or demons and stuff like that. , he has gone a long time trying to uncover like giant skeletons and elongated skulls and, uh, stuff to back up his claim.

And so that was one of my dream guests, but the other one that I haven’t done yet, and I’ll, I’ll try to reach out to him maybe who knows, but, uh, Graham Hancock, uh, I don’t know if you guys know him. He’s from UK too. Yeah.

[00:53:14] Ash: He’s C of the gods.

[00:53:16] Jeremiah: Is it? Yeah. Oh no, that was Fanta Graham. Hancock’s the one who’s always on Joe Rogan for like iowaska and he wrote, um, fingerprints of the gods, I think.

Oh, fantastic one. Yeah. Where he talks about the pyramids and all that. So yeah, he’s one of my dream guests to track down and , I, I really want to talk to him cuz he’s got so much to talk about and I like his, uh, works as well. Just the. Not just the iowaska side, but like the ancient past and forgotten civilizations and all that stuff that he talks about.

[00:53:56] Greg: that’s cool. Yeah. Just fire him a message, you know, he might be on sorry, online at that time and it pops up. Yeah. You never know. That’s how I think we got lucky with some of our guests. They just sort of, they read the message at the right time. Um, let’s do the interview.

[00:54:12] Jeremiah: Oh, I actually had another dream.

Um, I emailed him his name’s Michael Tinger and he’s from South Africa and he, um, he actually responded to me and said, I can’t do it right now. Cuz I’m starting this one small town, I guess he’s building a, like a small town in South Africa and um, he’s like con contact me back in October and I’ll come on.

So I was like sweet. So yeah, that’s cool. I’ll reach out to ’em again in October and that’ll be another dream guest off the list.

[00:54:47] Greg: Awesome. That’s cool. Yeah, sometimes it just needs that one, one message. And

[00:54:53] Jeremiah: it all changes. Yeah. If you hit ’em at the right time and exactly, I’ve learned to like, try to reach out to people when they’re like not doing any type of tours or, uh, anything like that.

and sometimes they’ll be like, sorry, I can’t do it. Or sometimes they’ll. Reach out to me in few months or whatever, but , I think a lot of people are willing to, to talk and share their experience.

[00:55:21] Greg: Definitely. I think now cuz the technology allows us to do it. They don’t need to go anywhere. People can just sit in their bedroom or wherever and just speak into a device.

Don’t necessarily have to do anything. I think that that definitely opens up guests a lot. Um, oh, yeah, for sure. Makes it easy for people for definite.

[00:55:42] Jeremiah: So, um, for the audience, where can they find you reach out to you? I’ll let you plug all your stuff oh, to you.

[00:55:51] Ash: Well, the podcast is pursuit of the paranormal podcast.

You can find on Spotify, apple, anywhere looking to your podcast. All our links are on our link tree, which is link for last pursuit. The power normally got our bar coffee on there. Our. You can listen to the show on there. You buy our merch on there. We do two episodes a week, at least every Saturday, every Tuesday, different topics.

We’re increasing that to free episodes weekly. Very soon, this is hard work. We have a tip talk, see at the paranormal podcast, which we are sort of concentrate on the minute, trying to get a younger, a younger crowd involved, uh, yeah, just should have had normal on Facebook on Instagram, Twitter. Just say, appreciate the paranormal.

Yeah. And you’ll find us. All

[00:56:39] Jeremiah: right. Well, thank you guys for coming on and talking with us. And we went down a lot of different rabbit holes, but it was

[00:56:45] Greg: fun. yeah, it was. Yeah. Thanks for having the song.

[00:56:49] Ash: Yeah. Good to see you again. Yeah, definitely.

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On the Trail of the Nephilim

On the Trail of the Nephilim

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On the Trail of the Nephilim

[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shattered.


my fellow terrestrials. And welcome back. Thank you for tuning in. We’re gonna have an amazing show here with the man, the myth, the legend LA Marli. We’re gonna talk about on the trail of the Nephem about his research into UFOs and alien abductions and a bunch of other stuff. So hang around for a bit. But, first I wanna give a shout out to a friend, fellow podcaster.

You should check out her podcast. It’s called strange origins. Play a clip right here.

Hello, my friends. My name is Paige Wilson Hume and I have been interested in the MC cob from a very young age. Gothic tales, mysterious disappearances and strange events that you can’t quite explain. These are some great examples of what I dive into in my podcast.

Strange origins in strange origins. I try my best to answer your questions about history and even pose some new ones. Have you ever wondered what gave birth to the stories that we tell around the campfire? What happened in our history that caused spooky tales of creatures, such as werewolves and ladies, and white to be passed down from generation to generation.

And, more importantly, why are we still so fascinated with the macab join me as I jump down the rabbit hole of a new subject each week and attempt to stitch together the history of all things strange and

spooky. If it sounds interesting to you, give it a listen before we get to the interview, just wanna say.

Don’t forget to rate and review. The show really helps out also, what if the wrong podcast is on, buy me a coffee, you can go on, buy me a coffee link will be in the description. If you want to donate to this show, you can donate. It would be highly appreciated. You also get a shout out on the following episode, all LA Mar’s links will be in the description as well.

So, if you enjoy what he talks to us about, you can find it pretty quickly and easily. He’s definitely gonna drop a lot of knowledge on us. So, without further ado, we’ll get to the interview here, and remember question everything. Welcome to the what if the wrong podcast I’m Jeremiah, your host joined today by co-host April.

And we’re talking to the man, the myth, the legend LA Marli and his works with on the trail of the neem, uh, prophecies and the cosmic chess match. A lot of information, a lot of stuff to, uh, talk about and his knowledge is vast. And unlike a lot of other people, he actually goes and, uh, to these places and researches and puts the feet on the ground and really, uh, ties it all together.

So, we’ll introduce him now.


[00:03:28] Marzulli: Hello, LA. Great to be here guys. Thanks for having me on, appreciate it. Yes.

[00:03:32] Jeremiah: Thank you for coming on. Uh, we’re excited to do this. And um, so I wanted to ask what was your aha moment when you said I have to do this on the trail of the neem and what got you down that

[00:03:46] Marzulli: path? Did you, have you heard this

[00:03:49] Jeremiah: before?

I have, but my audience probably hasn’t. Okay.

[00:03:52] Marzulli: This is cause I’ll, I’ll tell you the story. I mean, the aha moment for me was, um, several years ago, about 10 years ago, maybe, maybe longer. I don’t know. So, I get a call from my battle, buddy. Russ Diar. and, you know, Russ passed away in December and I really miss him.

He was, we attended 90 conferences together and we were kind of cut from the same cloth. We, you know, had the whole rough UN tumble world of the sixties and you know, the whole deal. Right. I was a little older than Russ, but it was basically the same, you know, it’s fast times at Mont I hate to say it, but that’s exactly what it was right with spa.

And Iole, it’s like, you know, clueless. So, I’m getting ready to head that new Ohio, Newark, Ohio, and Russ called me and goes, Hey LA, do you know where you’re going? I’m going to Newark Ohio. Why Russ? And, he starts, you have to know him when he, when he has that little undercurrent of a laugh, when he is sort of chuckling to himself, you can barely hear it, but it’s there.

And he goes, no, no, no, no, no. Do you know where you’re going? I go, Russ, I’m going to Newark Ohio. And in that little laugh again, a little louder. Come on Ross. What’s going on? He goes, are you buying your computer? I go, yeah. And he goes, Google, uh, NEM giants, fallen angels in the Ohio valley. I go, what? And he says the title again by Fritz Zimerman.

I mean, what, you know, fallen angels in the Ohio valley, uh, you know, the Neel and Chronicles. I mean, what, you know, I thought I was done with all this. He goes, oh, no, no, no, no, no. They just, you need to look at this. So, I get the PDF on Amazon. I read it on the plane, cuz it’s a five hour flight basically. I’m like reading this thing on the plane, like, oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh, my mind’s blown Fritz Silverman. And um, I get to, Nerk see when they say it, I know where you guys are located, but in Ohio it’s Neha. That’s how they in and that that’s fun. I live in NEKA high and that that’s fine. But, you know it. Hm, anyways, Newark, Ohio, but you know, I haven’t people, I don’t have an accent.

Oh, yes you do. So, I get it. So, I’m going to near aha. And I’m there and I’m, I’m my, driver’s driving me from the, from the hotel to the venue to back again. So, he’s doing this, and on Saturday, uh, after lunch, he’s driving me back to the venue or dinner, whatever it was. And I go, let me ask you something. I’ve I’ve been reading about this great circle, Mel, in, in, right here in Newark, Ohio.

Um, do you know where that is? And he goes, oh yeah. You’ve, you’ve gone by it every day. I go, what he goes. Yeah. In fact, it’s coming up here in about a mile. So, I’m in the car, I’m in the back seat. He goes, there it is. And I look over and I get my first shot of the great circle now. And I go, well, look, I’ve got the conference heads tomorrow at noon.

I gotta go to lunch, and then I’ll be free. Instead of dropping me to the hotel. Can you drop me off here? Let’s say around one o’clock, and then from one to five, let me just spend, you know, three or four hours here and I’ll, I’ll call you if I get done early, he goes, okay, next day conference lunch drops me off.

There’s nobody in the parking lot at all. I’m the, he drops me off in the parking lot. Nobody there, this is like a God ordained moment. I’m walking up this asphalt path, which is about four feet wide to my left is this large mound of earth. I know it from Fritz’s book that this is the great circle mill and it’s huge.

I’m just kind of staring at this, like what? Get to the top of the path. I look to my right there’s the museum it’s closed. And so, what else is new? And I, I go to the left and I begin to walk. At the entrance of the great circle, Mel, and probably about 50 feet away from it. I just freeze. I just stop.

And I freeze and I’m hyperventilating, I’m doing this

and I, I can’t move. I’m not moving a muscle. I’m my eyes are darting around looking at this thing. And I realize I am looking at the rest of my life. I, I mean, it’s, it’s one of those moments in time that few people get in an entire lifetime, but I’m sitting there going, you are looking at the rest of your life, Mr.

Marzuk. This is what you will be doing for the rest of your life. And I just sat there like this, just like staring at it. And I I’m all, you know, every single cell, my, my whole body is just tingling and I’m, and I’m, I’m hyperventilating. I’m afraid to move. And I’m just sitting here looking at this thing for probably, I don’t know.

I don’t know how long I was there. I have no idea frozen. And then, I finally eased my way very slowly, not reverently, but very slowly and cautiously into the grid circle, Mel and I spent four hours there. Wow. And that was the beginning of on trail of ethylene. We have created, uh, seven films in the series.

I’m working on number eight now outta place artifacts. Hopefully you’ll have that done by the end of the summer. Um, all the film has been shot. I just gotta edit it. So, um, there is a hidden history. That’s been deliberately obfuscated from the peoples of the world. There’s no doubt about it. And you can see this.

There it is the mysterious mound builders, and you can see this, the elongated skull right behind me. And you can see the giant behind that. Um, it’s it’s mind boggling. It’s mind blowing. Now. Most

[00:09:47] April: people think that the mounds were. Indian burial grounds and, and things like that. Can you explain why you don’t believe it’s the ancient Indian burial


[00:10:03] Marzulli: Well, native Americans used them for secondary internments. They did. We know that they went in, and they buried their dead on the mounts, but native Americans did not know trigonometry. Let’s just start there. They did not know trigonometry. Now, if they did know trigonometry, why isn’t in the oral tradition of any tribe, if they knew about geometry, why isn’t in surely they would’ve guarded that they would’ve handed it down.

It would be in the oral tradition. Stop there. It’s not there. Right. So, when you go to the octagon mound, let’s just start there at the octagon mound. And when you’re in it, and I’ve been there three or four times, maybe, maybe more, I don’t know, you know, you lose track. I’ve been there a lot and, and I film there and through a drone over it.

So, you’re there in the octagon mound. It’s 50 acres. and it’s flat and you don’t know what you’re looking at. You know, you’re looking at something, but you don’t really know the only way you can see it is from the air. And then, when you’re in the air, you kind of go, oh my gosh, it’s an octagon, but then it gets better.

It’s in irregular octagon. Two of the sides are not equal. And octagon is eight sides with a specific angle. I forget what it is. And, it creates an octagon that’s geometry, but it ups the, it ups the ante. When you create two angles that are different. So, here’s the deal. I’m gonna show you what I mean. So, I’m gonna draw an octagon.

I’m gonna do this fairly, you know, free hand here. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Now there’s my hand drawn octagon. Not bad LA too

[00:11:46] Jeremiah: bad. Good.

[00:11:48] Marzulli: right. But, if I presented that to my teacher, she would go, well, how did you arrive at that? Well, I just drew it F got eight sides F no, it’s not what you do. You take a pro tractor and a ruler and you need the angle, the precise angle of that, of that thing.

And then, you need each side equal that’s for an equal octagon. But, this octagon okay. Is two of the sides are longer. Now it becomes like E off the charts and then you’re enclosing 50 acres. And then, if that, that wasn’t bad enough, right? How do you know what you’re doing? You don’t right. You don’t know what you’re doing, unless you’re in the air.

I mean, you know, you just don’t, how does it look to you? Tons O it looks pretty good to me. I think let’s keep going with the next slide. You don’t know what you’re looking at. You don’t know, unless you’re in the air. but it gets better, because the octagon, the great octagon, Mel, like many of the sites are built on an 18 and a half year lunar calendar, lunar cycle.

They know about, in fact in the octagon, I’m gonna show you where it is. It’s like right there where the big star is right there. Right there. There’s the star, right? There’s like a high place. It’s ceremonial. They don’t know what I know. Tell you exactly what it was used for. And that’s where the lunar standstill happens.

So, the moon is doing this 18 and a half year deal. And then, at the end of 18 and a half years, it stands directly over that spot and just stands there. Now let’s take my calculator in my computer. I’m gonna do some saffron for you people right now. yes, sir. Hold on. So, where’s my calculator. Where gonna it go?

They were just right there. .

[00:13:41] Jeremiah: So, sound like us in North Carolina.

[00:13:43] Marzulli: Yeah. Yes, sir. 18, 18.6. You’re either with us, or you’re with the terrorist. how did he get elected? I mean, we all believed in him. It’s like, ah, don’t at me. See, I’m down a rabbit trail. I promise I wouldn’t do that. I’m sorry, please. I’m having way too much fun tonight.

So, 18 and a half years, right? Times 365 days. So, if it’s 365 days in our calendar, but let’s go 360. Cause that’s that’s what ancient calendar. All right, so we’ve got 6,696 days where the moon comes up, but wait, the moon rises and sets. Okay. So, we all three of us, April and, and Jeremiah in LA, we go to the, we go to the site and we go, yep.

We’re gonna make this thing at 18 and eight. We’re gonna, we’re gonna figure out what the moon’s doing. We don’t know what the moon’s doing. The moon is rising and it’s setting. So, it comes up and it comes down. But, guess what? We go back the next night, it comes up in a different place, different and goes down in a different place.

So, now we put some stakes down, we put a center stake. That’s where that’s our viewpoint. And then we put the first stake up and then the sec, the second stake. So every single night, 6,696 stakes times two, 13,392 stakes in the ground. But you don’t know, what’s an, we don’t know what’s an 18 and a half year Luna cycle.

So we put the stake in. Rising and setting. And we, you know, after about 30 days, we’ve got a bunch of stakes and we’re, you know, recording in on deer hide. How’s that for you trying to figure out, you know, making little points where the, where the stakes are. So after 30 days, a four day rainstorm comes in and we can’t see the moon now, what do we do?

Moreover, we don’t know whether we’ve jumped in, in year five, year, 15 year two. We don’t know where we are. And then how do we crunch the data? How do we sit there and go, you know, I’m thinking that we’ve seen this stake here before and you go, how can you possibly tell there are 13,392 stakes on the ground.

So God just, just that. Not yet. It’s just like, and the archeologists just go, well, they did it. So they must of known no, that’s a straw man argument. Thank you. I’ll get serious here. I’m kind of goofing on the whole thing, cuz it drives me nuts. The bottom line is that’s a straw man argument. to say that they did it.

You don’t know who. native Americans did not know about the 18 and a half year lunar cycle. Moreover we know from the book in Enoch, it was handed to mankind from a fallen angel by the name of Elle. So we can believe in the supernatural explanation or we can believe the modern day archeologists. And some of these guys are really great.

They do great work, but don’t, don’t tell me. That this happened because you don’t know how this arrived. You don’t even know who built the octagon mound. You call them the Hopewell Hoppo was a flipping farmer where the artifacts were found 150 years ago. And so you name this entire culture after the farmer, you don’t even know what these people or these entities called themselves.

You have no idea. And you insist that they use digging sticks and clamshell hose and other hose. You have no clue how they can pack of the soil, where it came from. It came from a mile away. They use dog sleds. Oh, really? Let me get this straight. The ground is hardened over there for four to five months out of the year.

You can’t dig in it. It’s frozen probably from November, December, January, February, definitely four months. More than likely five, depending on the winner. So everything’s frozen. So now you’ve got a limited building thing. These are a hundred gatherers, so who’s gonna pay, who’s gonna feed the guys. While they’re out there digging this sink, we’re gonna make an octagon mound.

Why? I don’t know team said we’re gonna make it not golly. We’re gonna do it. I mean, then you get to the circle mound, one of the largest circles earthworks, and it’s got an interior moat. Well, our team, I hired a surveyor. The surveyor went out, Todd wills and, and he he’s in the film mathematical mysteries of the mound builders.

There it is mysterious mound builders. I’m a trail of bene name. There’s seven of them, seven films. In my series, you can download them by going to streaming, do streaming that LA Marzo dot, or if you want the hard copies, you can go to the website, LA So you look at the, the circle, Mel.

it’s about 1,250 feet in diameter and that’s the one I walked into and just went, oh my gosh, what am I looking at? It’s got an interior Mo that in its hayday was flooded with water. So the torch light, no trees. There’s the circle Mount alter the, the, the, uh, the moat. It’s not a moat, but the mote right. Is reflecting the stars and the Torchlight.

I mean, this is like mind boggling ceremonial. It’s gotta be off the flip and charts. We hired Todd Willis. Todd tell me is the mote level. Yeah. Hey, we measured the mote. It’s pretty much dead level within six inches to a foot. Okay. Well, a foot’s like. That’s not very big. And it’s the, you know, that’s things like thousands of years old.

So he said easily, that could just be slough going in it’s between six it’s basically level for all practical purposes it’s level. So now I go, Todd, how did they do that in the ancient world? Well, they must have brought the water in somehow and used water as a leveling device.

I mean, you know, guys, there is a hidden history. That’s been deliberately obfuscated from the peoples of the world. And then you go to, so say wa on

[00:19:46] Jeremiah: we’re going there. There it is. Next, next week. We’re going there.

[00:19:51] Marzulli: are you going next week? Yes.

[00:19:53] Jeremiah: Yeah. We fly to Peru on Tuesday next week with who?

[00:19:56] Marzulli: Just yourselves?

[00:19:57] Jeremiah: Just us and her daughter. Yes. Where,

[00:19:59] April: where are you going? We are going. We’re going to practice and then we’re gonna be seeing the NASCA lines. Of course. And we’ll be going to Cusco and Lima and Machu Pichu. And I, I always say it wrong. All UN Tombo and yeah. Okay. You, I wanna be able to get into the museum with the, the skulls, but I believe it’s closed

[00:20:22] Marzulli: right now.

Yeah, the, the, uh, senior Juan museum has been closed. Just go to the eco museum ICA and you’ll get to see B Chango skull. Okay. Hold on. So let me get to where the heck is. Socks say wa she’s

[00:20:40] Jeremiah: right next to me. No, just kidding.

[00:20:46] April: I thought that was crazy. Mama

[00:20:51] Marzulli: well, it’s in Tobo like he,

[00:20:54] Jeremiah: yeah, we’re going there too. Mm-hmm , we’ll go everywhere. It’s worth.

[00:20:57] Marzulli: It’s worth waiting for so. lake titty,

[00:21:00] April: Coca

[00:21:02] Marzulli: oh, titty Coka. That we’re

[00:21:03] April: hoping to see something above lake titty, Coka come, you know, maybe something come outta the water.

[00:21:10] Jeremiah: We don’t know . Yeah, but even there, you can tell the stones on the bottom are like, not from the ink of people.

Oh. Or the old oh yeah. And then as it goes up, you see the craftmanship go down.

[00:21:24] Marzulli: Yeah. It’s hysterical. I don’t know why I’m having trouble finding this. This is ridiculous. Well, there there’s the Chongo skull. Yes. And, and we, in, in episode six, the DNA, we’re the only team. Well, not the only team other people have copied it.

We show where the Farman Magnum is. Our, our team was able to, to mess with that. Hold on. I gotta, I really want to find this. I don’t know why I’m having trouble finding it.

[00:21:56] Jeremiah: Yeah. That’s all right.

[00:21:58] Marzulli: Gotta be like right here. Yeah, here it is all. So when, when we’re at, you know, when, when you’re, when you’re there and, and you go to, so say wa mom, and you look at this, look at the people, look at the size of the stones.

And then when you’re there and you touch those stones, my friend, you are touching the fingerprints of the supernatural.

[00:22:27] Jeremiah: Yeah. Even look at the like way it shaped and all.

[00:22:30] Marzulli: And, and if you’re with an Inca guide, you’re you’re with a tour guide. Oh, the in ankle were master stone builders. Excuse me. You’re lying through your teeth.

The Inca had nothing to do with this and you’ll see it. You’ll see the ink ankle lop directly above it. And it’s hysterical because it has nothing to do with the stink in Inca. And I’ll show you what the Inca slot looks like. Hopefully let’s

[00:22:55] Jeremiah: back a little bit. Yeah. Cuz how are they able to like have the stones going

[00:23:01] Marzulli: 80,000, a hundred thousand times?

I mean, you know, quit lying, just quit master

[00:23:07] April: builders with builders who cannot even do that today.

[00:23:11] Marzulli: No. See the ink of slop next to the stones up on top. Yeah. That’s the ink of lop head size boulders, you know, mortar together. Quit lying. Yeah. I mean just quit, quit sitting there telling us that the Inca did this with copper chisels when we’ve already shown this with a piece of ANOC side stone.

So here’s my copper chisel. Let’s say right, this is on film. We’ve got it on film and we take the chopper chisel and we put it on the Endocyte and we go tin. We hit it one time. Chisel is. Stone, not even a indentation, quit lying, quit lying, quit, quit telling us that the Inca did this because it fits your goofy narrative.

You don’t know who built it. And I, I take great umbrage in the fact that you sit there and repeat the same BS to everybody trying to tell us that the Inca did this and the Inca had nothing to do with it. Absolutely nothing. Zippo. This is fallen angel technology, NEHI architecture, shame on you, people for deliberately obfuscating the truth, but that’s what you guys do.

And you do it over and over and over again.

[00:24:25] April: Mm-hmm . Now, can you tell our viewers who the Neal lium actually were?

[00:24:30] Marzulli: The Neal li are the progeny of phone angels and the women of earth cohabiting and creating this hybrid being. unless a person understands Genesis three 15, they don’t understand the rest of the biblical narrative because Jesus is there in the garden.

And he’s looking at the dragon. He’s looking at Adam and Eve and he utters this to the dragon. Your seed, your offspring will be at war at ity with the seed of the woman, the one coming from the woman, the proto andum. He will crush your head. Yo bruises heal. , it’s not tied in the churches for the most part.

People have no idea what it means it sets, and this is the deal. Well, you know, EPMS only mentioned in a couple of verses throughout the Bible. Why do you take such great amount of time and dedicated your entire life to it? Because Genesis three 15, if we knew that, then it unlocks the rest of the scripture and we see, oh wait, tower of babble.

Oh wait, Abraham. And the five Kings, oh, wait again, Sodom and Gamora. And then there’s the conquest of Canan. I mean, it’s just all throughout their seed, Daniel, their Sieble mingle with the seed of men, but they will not Cleve to them. Who is their seed? Who are they? Their seed will mingle. It’s not the seed of men.

Cause their seed will mingle with the seed of men. Genesis three 15 is the key to the entire Bible to the entire. It tells you that the antichrist. Will be the seed of the dragon. Literally he imitates the seed that that became the, became the Messiah. Because no matter how you say it, and you never hear this, it’s got jerked because people go, can’t talk about thought.

That’s just, oh my God, Jesus is a hybrid. He’s a hybrid. He’s fully God and fully man. Mary is somehow, somehow she gets genetic information. Somehow the holy spirit comes in overshadows her and that genetic information is passed into her ovum to her seed. And that becomes the Messiah. How does that work? I have no idea, but that’s what happened.

Cause he’s fully God and fully man. He is in essence, a hybrid a hub bread because he’s God and man that never happened before.

[00:27:05] April: I’ve never heard him called a hybrid. I’ve heard him called an extraterrestrial old

[00:27:10] Marzulli: well,

[00:27:10] April: he, no, well, cause he’s not of this,

[00:27:12] Marzulli: but he is well he’s of this earth because he was born in the stable, but he’s a hybrid entity because he’s not, he’s not he’s fully, man.

I get that. He’s fully gone. I get that. But the genetics, you know, part of it comes from, you know, the eternal and I have no idea how that works, but that’s, that’s who he is. And he is the God man. You sure Jesus Genesis three 15 is, is, is the key that unlocks the scripture and the antichrist will be the seat of the dragon.

That’s who he’ll be. He will be the offspring of the dragon himself. And that’s where all that power comes from. He may already be

[00:27:54] Jeremiah: here. So you believe that the fallen angels spread with the women of earth and um, created the giants or the Netline and then they’re responsible for all these mega structures around the world is what you’re saying, right?


[00:28:13] Marzulli: When, when you guys go to Peru next week and you sit there, if the Barus museum is open Inca, the ICA, the Inca, museum’s about an hour away, you should call to make sure it’s open when you go. Okay. Definitely. Cause this is their winner. So things are kind of shut down up there. Um, you’ll also see elongated skulls as a museum near the qu concha up at so a Mont, um, you can catch them there.

Um, but the eco museum has a great display. You’ll see the Chango skull, which is in our film. And you should watch the DNA film before you go. I would, you know, watch episode six and watch episode, um, uh, what is it? Um, hold. Episode six of, of my series, the DNA series. You need to watch that. And then episode six of the watcher series, the secret cosmic war, watch those.

I, I, you know, highly recommend it Watchers six and on trail six because, okay, you’ll get the whole DNA deal from number six. You can also watch my on trail number seven because we talk about some of these other sites. If you can, when you’re in Lima, three hours, north of that is corral. It’s the oldest city in the Americas.

Once again, 18, a half year lunar cycle Plaza, dead level. Oh, they have step pyramids. There there’s no preexisting culture. They’re kind of going, let’s make a pyramid, Bob, what? The heck’s a pyramid. I don’t know, but we’re gonna make one I mean, it just all just goes poof. There it is. And we see it over and over and over.

And when you’re in, when you’re in Orton Tobo you will see when you, when you go up to the, to the temple of the song, they have no idea where called something very cataclysmic happened. That’s why you need to watch this stuff. Cause we’ve already, you know, it’ll, it’s a great, great primer to get you to, you know, it’s a great springboard.

So when you’re there, you can discover things yourself, but you know, so say, well, mom, you sit there and look at it and go give me a break. Give me a break. There’s no way human look. Could you do it today with cranes and lasers and diamond saws, maybe 80,000 tons. Paul, we gone, let me just show you this. I didn’t let me, you know, since we’re here and you guys look at this, this is in Cusco.

This is the corner. Everybody goes, look, look at the curve. No two stones are alike, right? To make that. Are you kidding me? And to make it fit perfectly. No, no. Now we top, you gotta take it down all. Where’s the crane. Yeah. Stone number 82. We gotta take that

seriously. I mean, just show me if I were a billionaire, you know what I would do? I would create the LA Mazuli Al challenge. Oh yeah. and I would go get all the copper chisels and the best stone masons on the planet and go guys, we’re you don’t even have to quarry the stones. We’ll do that for you. How’s that sound?

And here they are just make a 20 foot wall for us that, that simulates no cranes. Okay. No beast of burden. And you guys can make your own pulleys or ropes, or if you gotta do, but just, just do 20 feet. Just, just show me how you make these perfectly circles with no mortar and how they stand up. Thousands of thousands of years, I believe in Tim Albarino believes thats Saman probably is pre flood, probably is pre flood.

Mm-hmm just saying

[00:32:15] Jeremiah: there’s a lot of sites around the world that I believe are pre flood as well.

[00:32:21] April: Now, why do you think personally, I I’ve read the cosmic, uh, chest match. Why do you think personally, do you, do you think that they came down, gave the information to men to be like God, to be above God, to, um, to people like us today to dissuade us from believing in God.

I know with the mounds and things like that, uh, All the giant skeletons have disappeared. Smithsonians hidden them, got rid of them, ruined them. Um, there’s people all the way around the world. Um, destroying ancient technology and things like that. And, and things of the Bible. So personally, what do you think is going on?


[00:33:10] Marzulli: I think that in all of these sites, they want to be worshiped. They want to be worshiped because they act like gods. They come down, they do this, they might heal people, fallen angels can do that. There’s power there. They can heal, they have knowledge. Fallen Ones have this, they have that. Can manipulate space, time matter and energy.

So they’re worshiped as gods and that’s what they want the Lord right. Allows it for a period of time. And then he acts. And that’s why we hear this over and over and over again in all these megalithic sites all over the world. Well, they just, I guess they just died out and they assimilated into the general population.

That’s, you know, conjecture on your part. You have no idea what happened to these people. What if they were completely destroyed Sodo Andora as a perfect example. None OFA mm-hmm is a perfect example. We don’t know, but we hear well, T two WCAN right in Mexico, we call ’em a T two WCAN, but we have no idea what happened to them or where they got the information to build that pyramid.

Well, they, they have to, and it’s always circular reasoning and it’s always a strong man argument. Well, they did it. So they had to have the information from somewhere. Well, that’s, you know, mm-hmm , you know, pitch can fly too. Right. So now what, you know, you guys just make up stuff, you just make it up, right.

You just make it up. It drive. It literally drives me nuts. And I’ve argued with archeologists. Well, what about this 28? You know, pound accent. That’s ceremonial LA. How do you know it’s ceremonial? Because, we don’t know what else it could possibly be used for. What if a nine footer is wielding it?

Well, there’s no such thing as nine footers, but what if there are that’s utilitarian for the nine footer? So it’s not ceremonial. What about those three foot Lance that we call the Neelum, Lance that weighs 28 pounds. You know, that’s made of bronze that found in Michigan native Americans did not know how to make bronze.

They didn’t. Right. So what’s it doing there? And chief Joseph comes on the record talking about the neem Lance and saying, this is why you guys need to buy this book. It’s all in here, right? I’m on, I’m on a trail. He’s on the trail.

[00:35:31] April: Oh, we have it. Yes. I have both books. I believe it’s the

[00:35:34] Marzulli: same. Yeah. I’m gonna show you in a second.

Where’s some information in this. I mean, I, it blows my mind. It really does. Like, yep. I’ve got both. There’s actually, there’s actually three books in here. Three

[00:35:46] April: books. Yeah. I didn’t, I must not have, here you

[00:35:47] Marzulli: go. Here’s the Neum Lance right there. And you put a nine footer on that thing. It’ll, it’ll go right through three people.

And that’s what chief Joseph said. Yeah. That, that originally, um, this Lance there’s, there’s a shot. What? It looks like mm-hmm and when we, when we tested it right, the first lab, oh, it’s just the, the, the, the, the person we were with said, oh, we’ll be able to tell you where the copper’s from. Maybe the age of it, blah, blah, blah.

So a month and a half later, two months later, I’m there with Bob Sheey. Bob is the guy that, that foul the Lance, eh, well, you know, not so fast now they got a PR person with the, with our, our point of contact and she can’t say anything to us. So she clears it with the PR person. We can’t film anything. What are you guys so afraid of?

well, when you think it’s just, oh, it’s just, you know, you could build this in today.

[00:36:44] Jeremiah: Yeah. And then you hear stories about, um, like David and Goliath and king ag and all those, the 28.

[00:36:51] Marzulli: And, but here’s the deal. So Christian Widener had a lab and we caught a piece of a Lance off and we gave him the piece of a Lance and he went over that thing and tested it.

And he found isotopes in that Lance, which are only from Turkey and the middle east and the tin comes from England. Hello.

[00:37:16] Jeremiah: But it’s

[00:37:16] Marzulli: in America. It’s my wheelhouse it’s ne well,

[00:37:19] April: then they say that, oh, it was the Landbridge. They came over from the Landbridge and ,

[00:37:25] Marzulli: I mean, they’re look, it’s, there’s a steel a that protopia talked about in Northern Africa and, and Mondo Gonzalez was the first person to tell me about this.

We are, they. Who fled from the face of Joshua, the robber, the son of none. We are, they who fled from the face, the IANS, the Venetians were here 4,000 year old site, America Stonehenge, mind, boggling mind boggling site in New Hampshire showing the connectivity. I mean, I’m not making this stuff up. That’s why we’re on the trail.

You know, that’s why, and number eight will be out of place artifacts. Cause I I’ve already filmed it and it’s time to let’s release the film. Let’s get it edited. You know, we’re working on every UFO film, that’ll be number three and the ongoing UFO series. So I mean, we’re, you know, we’re, we’re constantly, you know, the Lord has blessed me, blessed us and I’m sitting in the studio, I’m looking around and.

this place is firing in all eight cylinders tomorrow morning. I’ll meet with, uh, bill, not his real name as a follow up. Bill’s the guy that we took the implant out. Mm-hmm in, in Watchers, uh, seven and Watchers eight. So I’m following. Yeah. I

[00:38:47] Jeremiah: wanted to talk with you about the, um, whole abduction thing, cuz I know that’s a lot of your work

[00:38:53] Marzulli: too.

He’s coming up to the studio after I take him to breakfast. and we’re gonna do a follow up. Oh yeah.

[00:39:04] April: Oh, so, so back in the Bible times, you know, um, there was something interesting. I am, I’m a spirit filled Christian and. I’ve I’ve read a law of the Bible. I was always told that the Aroy and all that you know, was not true.

Not to believe it, you’re messing with bad spirits if you’re reading this stuff. But one thing, you know, churches believe pretrip or, uh, mid trip or, or tribulation, one thing that in your book, you said it was gonna be like the days of Noah. Well, we always thought, okay, well, it must be pretrip because in the days that, you know, Noah was taken out.

Right. But something that you had made a point of, and it really I’ve always believed that aliens were fallen angels, but I never knew where I got that belief. I just kind of believed it and people thought I was kind of crazy. Oh, sorry. but you, you, you made in your books that. You know, the fallen angels, they are pretending to be God in the days of Noah.

That means that they’re literally, these angels have come back and they’re doing the same thing that they’ve done back in the Bible times. Um, genetically, um, in these abductions, messing with our genetics and, and still doing, they might not actually have in sexual contact. They may be, but it’s, it’s like the days of Noah.

Once again, I completely con and, and that’s what they’re doing.

[00:40:46] Marzulli: And, and this is why, unless, and look, unless you understand Genesis three 15 and three chapters later, you get the days of Noah. Then, then when Jesus says we like the days of Noah and what does that mean? And that’s why it’s not taught because most pastors have no clue and they don’t teach it.

Well, that’s impossible. Angels can’t have sex. It says, well, be like the angels neither given in marriage. Yeah. But it doesn’t say that you can’t have sex. they saw the woman of earth that they were beautiful. They took wives, plural. Went into them in the biblical sense and they Sid the giants. Fallen angels did it.

Then they did it afterwards. And that’s what this book, counter move is all about. However, Neel and returned after the flood. And they’re doing it again in modernity, their seed will mingle with the seed of men, seal up these words, Daniel until the time of the men until the time of the end, men and women will run two.

And for over the face of the earth, knowledge will increase, but you go your way, you go your way, but seal up the book until the time of the end, their seed will mingle with the seed of men. They will not Cleve to them. We’re here. The, the essence of my work guys, and it’s like what happened in modernity?

What happened in antiquity is being repeated in modernity. Happened in antiquity is being repeated in modernity. In the distant past is happening again as I speak, right? And now the whole UFO thing. Real versioning and not going away. So we’re here. I mean, we’re, we’re in it up to our eyeballs,

[00:42:17] Jeremiah: right?

Yeah. I’ve been researching into UFO, abductions and abductions and reading a lot of works from like, you know, Dr. David Jacobs and other people. I can’t think off the top of my head, but, uh, the one thing that sticks out that really like bugs me is the whole like hybridization thing and the whole, like, uh, they’re very focused on reproductive type of stuff.

And a lot of women claim to see like these sickly babies and, yeah. Um, do you think that they’re like trying to create life so to speak or like do what God

[00:42:59] Marzulli: does or no, but they’re just making hybrids just they’re making modern day. Nephem. it’s exactly like the days of Noah except their seed is mingling with the seed of men.

There’s no, not a lot of procreation they’re taking over from the woman, sperm from the men. They’re taking the blood from the cows. They’re, they’re doing like the they’ll take the fetus, um, and the, and the third month or the second month, but in the first trimester and the woman thinks she’s just had a miscarriage.

Well, she hasn’t. And I, we, we have one woman that came on the record. It’s it is this, or one of the most intense, um, the most intense, uh, interviews I’ve ever done. Um, she was, I pregnant in three times and they, they took three of the children. 20 years later. She’s with her second husband, all that stopped born again, Christian, and she wakes up one night, the husband switched off.

He doesn’t wake up and she looks over, there are three men standing in her room. She knows instantly these are my children. and they’re looking at her bigger eyes with absolute hate, absolute hate it’s visceral. So look, I might make this stuff up. Um, you know, it’s my wheelhouse, I’ve been doing it forever, you know, in some ways it’s like, golly Lord, you know, but it’s so dark.

But our mission statement is to expose the deception of the prince of the power of the air and to Herald the return of the king. Jesus. So, you know, we’ve talked about the works of the enemy, but this is why he’s coming back soon has to, you can’t fix this anymore. And now the whole UFO thing is about to be revealed.

And as a saying, I coined a number of years ago, we go up, they come down, we go up, they show up, we go up, they come down and that’s, that may be exactly what we see. Conjecture, but that’s one of my right Yogi Barris sayings, you know, it’s just like, God gives ’em to me. And we go up. I remember when I said it to Gary streaming, he goes, you have to copyright that LA that’s incredible.

bill Salis heard it the other day. And he went, oh my gosh, LA that’s. That’s amazing. I’m just trying I’m not smart guys. You know, it’s not me. It’s right there. You know, say this poof. Wow. That’s really good Lord. Thanks a lot. look the, I remember when I was writing politics, prophecy with supernatural report, he gave me this, this saying the current political landscape is in direct correlation to supernatural events that happened in some cases millennia ago.

That’s a mouthful. When he gave me that I just went, that’s profound. That sums up mm-hmm our entire history in one sentence. That’s unbelievable. Say it again. The present political landscape is in direct correlation to supernatural events that happened in some cases millennia ago, let’s walk through it.

So the Jews are in Israel. They believe in supernatural events that happened to who Moses Moche Moses, mu Moses that’s color their body politic. Now we can tap dance around that all day long and say, well, it really doesn’t color their body political. I mean, there’s a lot of secular Jews, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Excuse me. Mm-hmm excuse me. It colors the body politic all day long. Let’s go to Iran. They believe in a different set of supernatural events, allegedly Mohamed receiving the Quran, right? That’s colored the body PO well, not really. Oh yes. It has look at the MOS. It’s a theocracy over there. They believe in, you know, that, that the America’s the great Satan and the Jews are the little Satan.

We have to kill all the Jews for the Yeman money to come back has so supernatural events that happened thousands of years ago have in fact, colored the body politic in this country. Unlike Barack Obama, insisting that America is no longer a Christian nation. I’m glad you think so, you know, so, you know, whatever, I won’t go there, but, but the bottom line is, did you dare?

Christian worldview has colored the body politic all day long supernatural events, right. Are responsible for the body politic in Iran, in Israel, in, in America. I mean, wake up the present political landscape is in direct correlation to supernatural events that happened in some cases, millennia go. And I didn’t write that.

He did that. That is one of the most profound statements I’ve ever heard. and he gave it to me go figure. Right. See, I’m not, you know, I’m like, well, I could say, well, you know, I’m really brilliant. That was just a, a genius statement. I had nothing to do with it. The holy spirit said, Hey, look at this point.

And I’m like going, oh my gosh. And, and typing as fast , you know, I’m not that smart guys. I’m not, but he is. And so he chooses, you know, this broken vessel, you know, to give that, give that statement. That is, that is one of the most profound statements I have ever heard in my life. And again, I’m not, I’m not taking any credit for that at all.

That’s from

[00:48:44] April: me. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve noticed in your books. You’re like, I am not a prophet. ,

[00:48:50] Marzulli: I’m not, you know, some people, I just love it in the body of Christ. It’s like, you know, prophet. It’s like good for you. Call yourself, call yourself whatever you wanna call yourself. I’m just as sinner, save by grace.

You know, no titles. I just,

when we get raptured and taken out, I’m on my white horse. I’m part of the white horse police force. I can’t wait for that. Me

[00:49:19] April: too.

[00:49:20] Marzulli: I already got one foot over there. You know, I do. OK. Know, maybe we’re going up soon cuz you can’t fix this anymore. You just can. I mean, the left is so rabid. We have to kill all the babies.

Have to kill them. Somehow a woman’s right. It’s like, really? That’s what you’re defending here. You know, maybe you should think about that before you have sex. I mean, we’re living in a world where you don’t have to ever get pregnant. I mean, you can take all sorts of stuff and, and never have to worry about it.

So why are you discussing this crap? You know, the onus is on both of you, you know, before you get together and do this. If you get pregnant now you got a third person involved here. So maybe you do, maybe you do a preemptive strike, you know, maybe you, well,

[00:50:04] April: now we’re now we’re women. Again, I shouldn’t get on this subject, but now we’re women again, when it comes to abortion.

Oh, I know. I love it before we were just, we were just menstruating with our menstruating person. Yeah. But

[00:50:15] Marzulli: you know, the new Kani up there in the Supreme court, babe, I’m not, I’m not a biologist. I’m, I’m not a biologist really. And you’re in the Supreme court and, and I’m gonna entrust my, you know, drawers, prudence to you.

Are you outta your mind? You can’t tell us what a woman is. You know, I’ve been reading, I’ve just read this book, um, about endometriosis and you know, I I’m, I’m, I’m a father of two kids. I’ve been married 37 years. I mean, I, I know that there’s a difference. No idea how much of a difference there really is.

It’s like when you get into a woman, Reproductive organs and the fallopian tubes and the womb and how all this works and the hormonal activity. And, and I mean, it’s just like, and, and the whole womb in itself, it’s like, excuse me, you know, you can lock body parts off and do all this stuff. You will never create a womb in a man.

It ain’t gonna happen. You know, sorry, men don’t get pregnant. Women do. And it’s just like, when I, after I read this, I mean, it was almost like too much information. It was just like, I had no idea the complexity of a woman’s body. And I remember when I married my wife, 37 years ago, I’m going, what are you doing?

I’m journaling. What are you journaling? I’m keeping a track of my monthly flow.

Oh book like 12 years old till she stopped her monthly flow. It’s like, I think we have it enshrined and just,

it’s like, it’s like, it’s a completely different universe than I’m in. Cause I don’t have a monthly flow. Men don’t have monthly flows last time I checked. So I’m not journaling. It’s like, I’m feeling my, I think I’m two or three days away. No, we don’t do that. Well, you know, men have hormonal cycles too.

Yeah. But we don’t, we don’t bleed like women do so, you know, it’s like, let’s stop pretending somebody wake up the emperor’s got new clothes on. You know, if, if you wanna go down that road, that’s your business. I’m gonna love you because we’re all broken here. And we do stupid things, but maybe think twice about it and maybe read some other people that have actually detransition and regretted the surgery.

Once you start lopping off body parts, you can’t put them back in again. Right. That’s what right. And, you know, giving hormones to five year olds and purty blockers, wait a minute. We we’ve gone crazy here. When you’re 18, see, and they do all this because when you give a kid at eight or nine puberty blockers, and they never go into puberty.

And so it’s easier to transition, but how do you know with an eight year old knows and, and, and we’ve, we’ve, I’ve done the science on this and red it that most people grow out of it. Most people grow out of it. Most people regret transitioning. You can’t say that or you’re, you know, your you’re anti whatever.

No, we’re not anti read the literature, you know, why can’t the other side who our de we had, I had this guy in my show, we, we took down our whole PPPs report because we just got tired of poking the bear. It’s not worth it, but he lived as a woman, I think for 12 years. And then he detransition, and he’s the 21st century unit.

I mean, that’s what he is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s what he is and he regrets it and he still looks very feminine for the most part, because he had facial feminization and you can’t really change that stuff, you know, and all your, you know, they come in with electrolysis and they take all your facial hair.

And I mean, it’s just like, and, and in my, in my opinion, there’s a spirit behind all this. There’s a spirit of BFA met BFA met is half man, half woman, half animal, half man. That’s exactly where we are. It’s exactly where we are. The spirit of BFA met and this spirit, when people open up to it, it will just lead you down the path because you don’t wake up one morning and go, I wanna be a woman.

No, you’re you’re or I wanna be a man. I’m gonna cut my breast off. I’m gonna remove my testicles, you know, and invert my penis, whatever you don’t just wake up in the morning and do that. You don’t you’re led step by step by step, by step, by step by step. And that’s from the ever side mm-hmm and that’s why it’s a spiritual problem.

And, these people, when, when I talked to this man who detransition, he told me that the Lord did a deliverance ministry on him. His, his sister anointed him with oil and prayed over him on the way home seven demons came out one at a time and it was gut wrenching, literal. . I mean, he was like heaving in the car, gut wrenching.

Yeah. Seven of them came out and you know, people on the other side. Oh, that’s just, that’s just superstition. They blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Really. You ever seen a demon manifest? Have you ever seen a demon come out of somebody? Ever in my dreams? right. So, anyway, let’s move on. We kind of banded, we got six minutes left.

[00:55:33] April: here. what other questions you’ve got?

[00:55:35] Jeremiah: oh, got sidetrack there. Huh? yeah, we just, um, yeah, we just wanted talk to about that. And then, one thing I wanted to hear, um, was the whole implant thing. And, uh, Roger Leer, you were working with. Uh, can you like, give us just a little bit of that? I know we don’t have a ton of time.

[00:56:00] Marzulli: well, we, we, we took out the implant.

We’re the only Christian team that’s ever done. So, um, and again, I’ll be speaking with bill tomorrow. Uh, we removed the implant. Uh, we did, uh, before we did the pre-op we did, um, um, let me, uh, x-ray Gause meter, um, stud finder, cat scan, and then the ultrasound. And we knew where it was. We knew it was there and the day of the operation, uh, we’re there.

And, uh, we can’t find the thing and pretend this is the wand and pretend my arm is Dr. Tric on is going over this little eight inch piece of flesh where we knew the implant was. He can’t find the implant, cannot find it. After an hour and 20 minutes, he can’t find it. So, Richard Shaw and I are, there were the only Christians in the room.

Dr. Roger, there never came across the aisle, but this, this changed his life. This, this experience changed his life. So I’m in the room. Tric Chian is there, Dr. Roger Le is there, Rick Shaw, myself, another two guys filming on top of that. You’ve got a few nurses. There’re about eight people in the room.

There’s 15 people watching it in another room. On a closed circuit, TV, big, huge monitor, HTM I, and all that kind of stuff. And the holy spirit tapped me on the shoulder and says, you need to take authority over this right now. I look at Rick and I go, I just kind of go, okay, I’m gonna pray, guys. This might sound strange, but I’m gonna pray and I’m gonna do it.

Now. Everybody kind of looks at me like. Like that. So, I go father. If there are forces, which are cloaking this device, I pray that you would break their power and do it. The room goes dead. it’s like this Patricia goes, and we are looking at the monitor, and the implant just goes like this from nowhere.

Yeah. Aware. Yeah, just like that. Mm-hmm and everybody goes what’s that? And Dr. Patricia goes, that’s the implant. He takes the, the wand and he kind of taps it and looks at it, puts it back on the leg. There’s the implant tap. He does this like a half a dozen times. He can’t figure out why we’re seeing the implant.

All of a sudden, I’m laughing. I look at Rick he’s laughing. Cause the spirit of living, God just showed up. We took the implant out. It was on film it’s in our Watchers series. We’re gonna recapitulate that, uh, cuz I’m interviewing bill tomorrow. And we’ll talk about that now I’ll, I’ll redo it in one of our UFO update things.

The bottom line is this, that was on a Saturday. We took the implant out Monday. We’re at seal lab with Dr. Roger Le I go, rod, can I talk to you? Privately goes. Sure, sure. LA and he gets up and we go out in the hallway and I go, Roger, I hope you understand what happened in that operating room. And he looked at me, his eyes got really big and he said, LA, I now believe there’s a supernatural dynamic to this implant stuff.

And I’m gonna tell Wheatley streamer about it. Roger died, massive heart attack in the doctor’s office.

[00:59:21] April: Mm. Now, um, with alien abductions, I’ve also heard that there are some people that were going to be abducted and they, they. Pled the blood of Jesus they’ve called out.

And, and then they

[00:59:37] Marzulli: weren’t abducted it’s it stops many of the abductions. Um, and this is where it kind of goes off the rails. There are people that claim to be Christians, that were taken mm-hmm. Many people that I’ve talked to who were born again, spirit filled walking. Where they were supposed to be walking where they’re supposed

[00:59:57] April: to.


[00:59:59] Marzulli: It just stops it like different.

[01:00:03] Jeremiah: Yeah. I’ve I’ve said that I believe aliens are interdimensional and yeah, they are that, and I don’t think that they are benevolent. Um, it just, the stuff that they do and everything just doesn’t make me believe that they’re up to good. Um, and yeah, just, um, hearing tales like that, where people call out and puts it in this supernatural realm and not.

There’re are space brothers.

[01:00:35] Marzulli: no, they’re not our space brothers. I’ll tell you that before I go. If you go to my YouTube channel folks, LA Marzuk and you open up the text box right below any of our videos on YouTube, you will see if you scroll down a little bit, you UFO free film part one, and part two, watch those.

Okay. Cause we’re working on part 3, 4, 5, and six. They will not be free, but part one and part two are, are there. If you wanna buy the hard copies, you gotta go to our website, LA If you go to YouTube, you can just download it for free. I’ve done my part. I’ve done two films for free, and that takes a lot of effort and a lot of time to do that.

Yes, but, I gotta go. Thanks so much for having me on guys.

[01:01:21] April: Thank you so much.

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[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shattered.

Welcome back my fellow terrestrials and thank you for tuning in today. We’re gonna have an awesome interview with Earl gray, Earl gray Anderson. He is the head of Southern California moan. And, uh, he’s gonna talk to us today about obviously UFOs, aliens, abductions. It was a very good conversation. So I think you’re really gonna enjoy it.

Stick around, but first, just wanna say, what if their wrong podcast is on? Buy me a coffee. If you decide you want to donate to the show. I will give you a shout out on the next episode. The link will be in the description of the show. So check it out. If you want to donate, cuz you enjoy the show, enjoy the content and want to help keep it going.

Feel free to do so. If you have a show topic idea, or if you would like to be a guest or if you would just like to talk, hit me I respond to messages in a timely fashion, so don’t be afraid to reach out. So let’s get beamed up with moan and Mr. Earl gray Anderson and remember question everything.


Welcome to the what if the wrong podcast, I’m your host, Jeremiah. And I’m joined today by Earl gray Anderson and he is the head of the Southern California muan, which is a mutual UFO network. And we’re gonna be talking today about. UFOs aliens, abductions, the whole phenomenon figured there’s no better person to get on than one of the head of moan.

And I’m sure he has a lot of stuff to present to us. And his knowledge is pretty vast and definitely something we can gain knowledge from. So let me introduce him now. Hello, Earl

[00:02:30] Earl Grey: gray. Hi there, Jeremiah. How are you doing? I’m good. How. I’m doing great. It’s a little hot out here in Southern California today.

Oh, reached 104 yesterday. I not, I haven’t ventured outside yet. I’m a little scared. My, my cats and I are just hudling with the air conditioner.

[00:02:50] Jeremiah: yeah. It’s like someone turn on the oven out there. Oh,

[00:02:53] Earl Grey: I know. It’s crazy. You could probably, you know, bake a pizza or something. on the sidewalk. So, uh, so you guys, you, you wanna talk UFOs, huh?

oh yeah. Yeah. Because I like to do that. I, you know, it’s my obsession

[00:03:08] Jeremiah: yeah. My I’m starting to become obsessed with it myself. Uh, the whole alien abduction phenomena, especially. And I had said to you before that, you know, I just read Dr. Jacob’s book and I read Jim Mar’s alien agenda and I’ve read some LA Marzuk stuff and just the whole thing.

Really fascinates me. And it’s like, I’ve learned so much, but yet I know basically nothing and that seems to be the case is like, you kind of get pieces here and there and you kind of gotta piece ’em together and then come up with your own, uh, conclusion of what you think is going on. So I’ll ask you first, what do you think is going on with the whole like UFOs, alien abduction?

Like I know there’s different camps out there. Like some people say they’re interdimensional, some say they’re from outer space. Some say a combination of some and then a bunch of other theories out there. So what is your personal, uh, view on the whole phenomenon?

[00:04:19] Earl Grey: I, I think they’ve always been here. I’m, I’m one of those guys.

I, I think that we’re perhaps even their project, uh, that they’ve had their hand in, in, in human evolution. And that it goes back to time memorable, um, as far as where they come from. I, I think that, uh, it’s both dimensional and, uh, inter stellar. Uh, also, I, I, I think that, you know, we do live in a multiverse there and the other dimensions, uh, may mirror this one very closely.

So in other dimensions, uh, things are close to what they are here, but the further you go out, it, it gets a little stranger and more different, uh, you know, as, as you go out dimensionally. So, uh, they, they may be coming from, you know, alpha Tari, or even from a earth in another dimension. It would be as easy as walking through a door.

You know, I think that they’ve mastered portal technology, um, that they’re thousands of years ahead of us. Uh, there’s, there’s a, a scientist, uh, rich Hoffman that has, has a, uh, investigatory group. Uh, he’s not with Mohan anymore, but, uh, I, I was speaking with one of his scientists, very, very intelligent, uh, you know, guy with, with, you know, quite a few degrees on the wall and PhD and all that.

And he was saying that he believes that, uh, from what they have seen and, and, and how that, what they used for propulsion. I mean, they, they did a deep, deep study on the tic TAC, uh, case that happened out here, uh, near Catalina island with an USS Nimitz in the Princeton, uh, Kevin Day. Who was you? Part of all, that was the strike force commander on the Princeton.

Uh, he’s the guy that first saw thetic TAC type UFOs that was on the radar, you know, and they were seeing these things coming down from, uh, low earth orbit down to sea level and then shooting back up again. Ooh, we have a loud airplane out there. if it’s the men in black, maybe. Yeah. I’m saying too much.

Alrighty. I barely opened my mouth but um, he was telling me that, that what they’ve seen, uh, as far as propulsion and what they can do that they’re like 5,000 years ahead of us at least. Um, and, and that doesn’t surprise me. I mean, the tic TAC itself was traveling at mock 18, 18 times. The speed of sound.

Uh, it didn’t make a single Sonic boom. It should have made 18 of them. It should have sounded like a, the world’s biggest thunderstorm. Uh, it was making 190 degree turns and, uh, I’m guessing it wasn’t killing the, the pilots that were inside. Uh, as far as it being unmanned, I don’t know why you would make, uh, something that was 40 feet long, that, that didn’t have a pilot.

That was a drone. There would be easier ways to do that. I, I think that they were, that thetic TAC was piloted certainly under intelligent control. And, uh, that, you know, Rich’s guys, they, they, they, and, and Kevin Day as well, he had a team out at seal beach. They recently made that the movie, uh, tear in the sky, I think it’s called, uh, and they, they had all manner of monitors and scientific equipment, uh, at this beach house where he had gathered this group of scientists to study this phenomenon.

And whenever they would have a head UAP, they would come out of the ocean, you know, and it, they were actually getting Gama rays from the object. Uh, there’s only two things that can produce gamma rays, a black hole, or a neutron. and their belief is, is that for propulsion, our visitors are using a mini black hole.

They use a thing called quantum metrics. Uh, and, and what happens is they carry this black hole with them and it creates, uh, a gravity, well, a dip in, in gravity and, and the ship just kind of falls into that. Constantly, never falls in it’s a mini black hole, right. But just the attraction of the craft to the black hole is where they get that speed.

And apparently they carry their own physics with themselves because I mean, you can’t make 190 degree turn like that and survive, you know, you’re, you’re gonna be a little splash on the wall, uh, pardon in the gross, uh, imagery there, but that that’s, that’s, that’s what would happen, but, uh, that it was doing what, you know, what it was meant to do, what it was designed to do.

And, uh, there’s nothing that we have that could do that. Uh, MI Coco, the, the, the famous, popular science scientist recently came out and said that, you know, that don’t believe what they’re telling you. There’s nothing that Russia, China or America has that could possibly do this. It’s so advanced from anything we have, uh, it would be like showing an iPhone to a caveman, uh, the, you know, you, how do, how do you tame a black hole?

How, how do you carry a black hole with you? But that’s the only, I mean, it’s amazing. I mean, that’s what throws off gamma Ray. So apparently that’s what they’re using, uh, to, you know, propel these objects with .

[00:09:58] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely, definitely makes sense. Like the rate of speed that they can go and like do pinpoint turns that like none of our aircraft can do, like, there’s gotta be a way that they can.

Go around the physics of our planet and all, or as our reality as we know it. So yeah, there has to be a way they can, you know, like you said, carry a black hole around or bend space time or something, kind of like a Dr. Strange. And like ,

[00:10:32] Earl Grey: that’s, that’s a good, yeah. A good example. It is like a graphic novel.

It’s crazy. I. I think the biggest problem that, that, you know, your scientists in any field have have had with this phenomena is, is that it’s just so absurd. And it, it just like, you know, snubs its nose, you know, Isaac Newton and says, no, , uh, the, you know, we, we don’t follow those rules of physics. We have our own, I, I think that they, uh, it’s just the most interesting, amazing phenomena.

And, and, uh, you know, I, I, I began doing this. Uh, I, I became a Mo on field investigator about seven and a half years ago now. And it was one. It’s it’s the great adventure of my life, you know, I, I just, I love it. Uh, and it, but it’s so mysterious and, and, you know, you just have to have an open mind, but try not to let your brain fall out.

Right. You can’t, you know, but you gotta keep that open mind and, and still, you know, of course, I mean, in moan we use a scientific method. I mean, the moans creed is the scientific study of UFOs for the benefit of humanity. And so we. Keep the sciences intact, but, uh, boy, boy, this is way beyond anything that we have.

And you know, it’s, it’s like the population of an ant hill looking up at a skyscraper, an airplane and trying to understand it. yeah. I can understand why our physicists and scientists are, are, are offended by, by this phenomenon. It’s it’s got to, you know, it’s absurd by design in a way it’s, uh, it’s crazy.

And I think it goes way back. I think that if you read the Bible or read the Greek myths, you know, read the history of Samaria and Babylon, uh, that, that they, uh, that we’ve had contact, uh, worldwide, you know, and it’s, it’s nothing new. What’s new. Now finally government officials are, are saying, yes, this is, this is something it’s not crazy people.

Um, this is a real phenomenon now. They don’t understand it.

[00:12:51] Jeremiah: now what’s your take on them releasing all this information recently. Do you think it’s leading up to something or do you think they just can’t hide it anymore or what do you, why? I don’t think they can hide

[00:13:03] Earl Grey: it. They can’t hide it anymore. I don’t think that they wanted to disclose, I don’t think they wanted to disclose, but there were just too many people that knew about it and the videos got out.

I mean, what are they gonna say and do. . I mean, everybody that saw that video, that was a, you know, a Navy pilot knew exactly what it was and where that came from. So they had to answer questions, but they’re acting like they’re dumb. Like it’s some new thing they’re suddenly interested in, but we know, you know, through, through FOYA requests that we put in the freedom of information act, uh, they have to release a lot of this stuff and, and their interest in UFOs goes way back to the 1940s.

You know, it’s not nothing new . Yeah. But, but it is new for them to admit that it’s a real thing and that it they’re stumped by it. They, they don’t understand it. Now,

[00:14:00] Jeremiah: do you think, um, the government is communicating with aliens or whatever these beings are

[00:14:08] Earl Grey: that wouldn’t surprise me one bit. would it, would it surprise you?

[00:14:12] Jeremiah: No, not at all. Not that they are

[00:14:15] Earl Grey: I think so. I, I, I, I think that, uh, you know, people wonder why disclosure proper hasn’t happened. Right. I, I really don’t think that humanity, a lot of us are, are really ready for it. I mean, just any new idea or anything is, you know, people get angry, they, you know, , they March on the white house or whatever, you know?

I mean, it just, uh, and, and imagine if they came out and they said, yeah, we’re being visited. We can’t protect you from them. They’ve been here since forever. Um, we, uh, There you go, have a nice day. Well, yeah, like people would be, you know, building bomb shelters and, you know, there would be a rush for tin, foil hats.

People would probably rush the banks afraid of, yeah. I mean, it could cause all kinds of problems and I don’t think the government wants to see that. And I don’t think our visitors wanna see upheaval here. So I think that they do what they’ve been doing and, and people will see a UFO or they’ll have a face to face anomalous encounter with beans.

Uh, and, uh, and that’s how they work. Uh, it, it’s almost like, uh, animal sanctuary that we would have. And, and what do you do? You know, you go and you’ll tranquilize the lion first and you go and you do medical tests, get blood and do all that stuff. Uh, make sure everything’s okay. And then you go, and if the lion could speak, you would probably say I’ve been abducted by anomalous, uh, humans.

And, and it’s the same thing for us, you know? And, and I will say that the, you know, the experience surf phenomena, abductions visitations, it is very, very, very real. And, and the people that report having had these anomalous encounters are not just a bunch of Hicks or idiots. They’re, they’re PhDs, doctors, lawyers, nurses, and, and garbage collectors and window washers and, and working class heroes.

You know, uh, I, I was a nurse just recently retired. I’m, I’m glad because I wouldn’t have time to work 12 hour shifts and, and do everything that I’m, you know, doing right now. You know, we’re hands on at Mo on people will see a UFO. And just for your listenership out there, if you see a U F O uh, just go to, it’s M U F O.

and on the front page, it will say report a UFO or, you know, report, uh, an entity encounter. I’ll take you like 15, 20 minutes to fill out that little form and write a little narrative about what happened. Your spelling doesn’t have to be great, or you can be Ernest Hemingway, but it doesn’t matter. Um, that will go to, uh, the one we work regionally.

So I get all the, all the sightings in Southern California. I think we had 80 of them last month. And, uh, I see every one of those reports and I’ve got a team of field investigators that I assign each one, two, and they’ll do a deep dive and figure out if it was, uh, if it was an identified flying object.

And we got plenty of drone reports, we. You know, people that will see a Mylar balloon that’s, you know, flashing the silver side and it looks like it’s sending them messages and stuff, or, you know, the drones are, you know, one of the, you know, IFOS that are real popular now, but we’re, you know, we can go and we can figure out what it was.

And if we can’t figure out what it was, then you’ve got an unknown, a UFO and. That’s maybe five to 10% of the accounts that come in, a lot of people will see the planet Venus, or, you know, they’ll see the, the ISS space station. It looks like a little cross that’s going across, you know, across the CTIC. And, and we’re, we’re, it’s gotten to the point now.

I mean, I’ve personally closed 808 UFO, uh, cases myself. And, but a lot of ’em I can read like the first two sentences, you know, as, and, and I’ll know what it is, you know, we, we had like, uh, in San Diego we had, uh, anomalous lights that, that, uh, in the sky about three nights ago, And, uh, it turned out that it was the coast guard doing a, usually the Navy will let people know beforehand now because they know they don’t wanna scare everybody.

The coast guard, not so much. So the whole city of San Diego, they thought that they were being invaded by et, but it was actually the coast guard doing, uh, night training and they’ll use a they’ll shoot flares up with little tiny parachutes. You can’t see the parachute, but you do see the flare and it’ll be there looking like it’s in formation.

These certainly did. But I took a look at the video and I knew exactly what it was, was like, yeah, this, the military is doing something out there tonight. Now wasn’t there. And that’s a lot of what we do, you know, wasn’t

[00:19:27] Jeremiah: there a video, I don’t know what year or anything, but where they had those multiple lights and the government tried to play it off as they were just like flares, but

[00:19:39] Earl Grey: like a lot that would be the Phoenix lights.

Is that what it was? Yeah. Uh, back in 1997, and that that’s a different story. Um, with that one, there were thousands of people that saw full on spacecraft. Uh, one was about a mile across triangular shaped. Um, they had various shapes, various craft that were seen, uh, they were seen from, uh, Arizona out to, uh, Utah.

And, uh, after the event, the military sent up flares and tried to blame the whole thing on that. This is their way of not disclosing , but no, that was, that was a real thing. That was an anomalous, uh, that, that was a fleet of, uh, UFOs. Yeah. And didn’t the, uh, my, my friend, uh, Dr. Lynn Katai she’s, uh, she has the film, the Phoenix lights, and she was sort of one of the first people that saw that and, uh, yeah.

Is a very, very real thing. Yeah.

[00:20:39] Jeremiah: Didn’t the mayor or governor, whoever come out in like an aliens face suit to like mock it and then later yes. Recounted that and said, yeah, something happened.

[00:20:49] Earl Grey: That was governor Simonson and, and, uh, yeah, he came out with a guy in an alien suit and made a big, made a joke about it and it didn’t go over very well.

No, he, he lost the election, I believe, probably because of that. Um, but yes, he did come, uh, he later on said that he went to the top of a Mount and he had been hearing about this and he saw the mile long craft kind of flew right over him. And he just watched this thing with his jaw drop down to the ground and, uh, yeah, he’s, he’s he’s uh, he knows that we’re not alone.

yeah. It’ll have a huge impact on you when you see a UFO. You’ll know what it is. There’s no question in your mind. Um, and, and it changes a person’s.

[00:21:38] Jeremiah: yeah, for sure. And, um, where I’m at in Carolina, there’s the brown mountain lights, which probably aren’t a UFO, but it’s some weird phenomenon where . Um, but also,

[00:21:51] Earl Grey: yeah, I mean, there are atmospheric phenomena that will look like a UFO and that’s one of our jobs is trying to figure out and pick apart what people saw and then some people, I mean, I’m, I’m their buzzkill.

You, you don’t want to tell somebody that they were looking at a Mylar balloon and I, you know, I, I I’ve learned to you. I mean, you just have to be sweet to people and, and, and be kind and informative and let them know, Hey, you know, I would, I, this is what I do. I, if I had seen that, I would’ve thought that it was something too.

So, uh, keep looking up next time at, you know, maybe a Starship

[00:22:33] Jeremiah: yeah. There’s also, um, and it. Hugely talked about, but I’ve heard about UFOs coming out of like lakes and stuff like that. Um, yes.

[00:22:45] Earl Grey: I don’t know. There’s a connection with water. Yeah. So most of the impressive cases that I’ve been getting off the coast of California, um, I had, I have a case I, I closed, uh, about a year ago, uh, is a commercial pilot, his wife and brother-in-law, they were camping on east Catalina island.

And this guy is he, he flies across California along the coastline. That was his usual flight path. And so he’s very good at dead reckoning. And knowing how far away something is by the naked eye. Plus, he had binoculars with him, which was helpful. Cell phone was in the tent, unfortunately, but he watched this.

Huge sphere. I guess you could call it an orb, but I mean, it, it was, it was like the sphere that was maybe 200, 300 feet across come out of the water and he called his wife and his brother-in-law out. So there were three sets of eyes on this thing. He said it was about 10 miles off of the coast of Catalina island, uh, equidistant from the mainland.

So it was 10 miles away from the mainland. A golden sphere comes outta the water and it starts doing this pattern of like a crosswise pattern up and down, back and forth. He watched this for a while and then it shot back down into the water. He had binoculars on it. He said it was just bright, like plasma, like this little miniature sun, not quite that bright, but.

You know, it was just perfectly spherical. Uh, a couple seconds went by and the thing comes out of the water. Again, this time, it just HAES there hovering maybe 200 feet in the air, and then they watched this thing shoot out of the atmosphere. So that was off of Catalina island. And that was something’s underwater there.

I think so many reports are going out. Um, I really want to get a dive team together and take them out to the coordinates. This guy, thankfully, he actually had the coordinates. Uh, when I heard about it, I called up Kevin Day, who is the Strikeforce commander that, that reported thetic TAC at first. And Kevin knew the exact coordinates of where they saw thetic TAC.

And he said, oh my God. He said the pilot, what, what he saw, those are the exact same coordinates of thetic TAC. So that’s where we sent the jet. So I think there’s something underwater there off of east Catalina island.

[00:25:26] Jeremiah: Yeah. I wonder if they have like bases underneath these bodies of water, because I hear about them coming outta different lakes and, uh, stories of that kind of stuff and kind of makes you think that they might have something down there.

And they probably also know that we don’t search down there. mm-hmm so, yeah, it’s definitely a way to hide themselves.

[00:25:53] Earl Grey: well, the military, they get the, you know, in the boomers, uh, submarines, uh, I know a few people that, uh, they, they get anomalous hits. They call them fast walkers and, uh, it happens all the time and it’s something that’s moving faster than anything that we’ve created.

It’s like UFOs moving through the air. It’s almost like some kind of spacial Telon they use. For their craft, but they, they move and they move fast, you know, mock 18 under water for God’s sakes. And, uh, so that, I, I think that that’s a really good supposition that they probably do have a base that they use.

It’s a good place to hide something. That’s for sure. I mean, it can be underwater and underground, you know that, I mean, I know the military even looked into doing that. There there’s, you know, blueprints hypothetical blueprints, they came up with way back in the 1950s to show how you could do, uh, underground base under the ocean.

So I would guess that they probably have something like a facility down there, our visitors do. So

[00:27:02] Jeremiah: now for the UFOs themselves, I know you have different like shapes and sizes and stuff like that. Do you think, um, , they are different species of aliens. I don’t know what term to use, but like, cause you know, you hear about the Nordic and the, uh, draconian ones or uh, whatever.


[00:27:26] Earl Grey: there’s all manner of beings. I mean, we, we see a lot of the little gray guys, of course, you know, you’re kind of four foot tall with the big black eyes and uh, you see tall gray aliens that kind of look similar, but, uh, are, are more, you know, comparable to our height, like five and a half feet tall as usual.

Uh, you’ve got the more, uh, reptilian type, uh, ETS that are out there. Uh, you hear bad stories about them, but I hear good stories about, uh, about certain reptilians. Uh, so they, you know, it’s just like humanity. I mean, we might look the same, but talking to people that are gonna have different beliefs and philosophies, and, and I think it’s the same thing with our visitors.

Um, and you know, you’ve got the tall whites, the Nordics, and there are other beans that look more like us, perhaps that’s intentional. I mean, if, if you want to go and study a planet, how better to do it than to look just like the inhabitants of that world. So I, I think that, that they’re here among us, you know, they’re, they’re, uh, certainly involved with, uh, I think they always have been, we’re interesting to them.

  1. So the big human soap opera , you know, yeah. Forget life gets boring, go to earth, you know, you’ll see revolutions and wars and crazy ni you know, rock concerts, and it runs the gamut. , you know, we may just be a great vacation site. I don’t know. Um, but there you

[00:29:04] Jeremiah: go. Yeah. So for the whole abduction side of it, like, what, what’s your take on the abduction side?

Like what do you think the purposes of it and why are most accounts pretty much the same as far as like, they’re really interested in our reproductive system and, um, about our human makeup and stuff like that. So what’s your take on it from what you’ve researched.

[00:29:36] Earl Grey: well, there was, uh, a period of time where people were having their DNA taken pretty regularly.

And that seemed to be the, the main motive of abductions and visitations. You you’d hear the same story over and over and over again. Um, that seems to have calmed down over and in, in recent years, the last five years, six years or so. Um, you don’t hear as much about DNA collection. Uh, there’s more like teachable moments and people get downloads of information that is supposed to be activated when needed.

Uh, if there’s some future, I guess, disaster or something, they wanna make sure that humanity is, is not destroyed by it. And, and that, you know, that there’s knowledge that’s here. That’s not just in a library or on, on your computer. I mean, if, if God forbid society were to collapse, uh, most of the information that we have now is digitally, you know, collected and, and that’s, you know, even the books I read anymore is I just read ’em on my Kindle, you know?

So I think that there’s some of that going on with abductions, a lot of teachable stuff. I have a cop here who, uh, Was abducted from his squad car. He was out doing his rounds. There was a bridge where, um, they would have a lot of, you know, homeless, people would drink and stuff and he would go, that was on his beat.

So he would go and check this area out. He parked his squad car there. And, uh, he was just, you know, he had his little computer system that they used to to write, you know, their reports. So he is doing that and suddenly there’s this bright light. He thought somebody had a flashlight shining at him. Uh, so he is looking, you know, you, you, you know, he had every reason to think, well, maybe I’m at risk.

So he’s looking out the window and, uh, the light kept getting closer and closer. And the, the man was, um, he said that the, and I’ve heard this before, you know, it’s like the dash board of his car. It was like Tesla, like a Tesla coil. This energy was, you know, spinning around on, on his dashboard. Uh, and the next thing he knows, he said that he had two hours of missing time.

Uh, and when he was cogent again, when he, he was back in his car, he said that he felt like a fish outta water at first. Like he hadn’t taken a breath in a while. Uh, but the man had a download of, of, uh, mathematics and it kept going on for a month. He would go to sleep at night. And he would see, this is just absurd, but I mean, the phenomenon crazy, you know, it just nuts.

He would see this little thin gray hand with four fingers, holding a little pointer with a Blackboard and was teaching him. He, he said that they were teaching him about zero point energy. Uh, he had a month of this and he thought it was so ironic because he was a D student in math. That was like the one thing he couldn’t get his head around after a month, it suddenly stopped.

Now, this guy, you have to realize he was honest. When they were looking for him, they, they were trying to contact him the other, the, the, the police station. And he wasn’t answering his, his phone for like two hours. Wasn’t answering the calls. He told them what happened to him. So he was like, leave it to you to get abducted.

You know, all of his, uh, friends, you know, that, that he worked with and colleagues, but he came to move on, hoping to get, uh, hypnotically regressed by somebody so that, because all that information had left him, he was told with his last meeting, with this gray thin, you know, de hand with the, the, the pointer, he said that, that this will come back to you when it is needed.

And. That was it. You know, he didn’t have any more abductions, no more alien contact. It’s like they wanted to give him this thing that would be activated some days, as far as I know, he was not able to get to the information even through hypnosis, uh, is deep there in his mind. And I’m, I’m guessing that, you know, if it’s needed in our future, that you’ll have the, you know, what that, which will solve every energy problem on earth.

They think that zero point energy is the way to go. It’s sheep clean and, uh, and very powerful, but we don’t know how to do it. Apparently our visitors do. And apparently there’s this police officer out there that has that locked in his brain. So that’s one of the reasons why, you know, things like that. We see a lot of stuff like that with abductions and visitations.

Um, you still have some people that, that have their DNA taken. Oftentimes it’ll just be by taking blood. Uh, your DNA is in your blood, uh, or, you know, the other ways that you’ve probably read about, you know, national Inquirer just loves alien probes and stuff like that, but people don’t usually get probed, but sometimes they would have semen or ova, uh, taken from no, that happened a lot, you know, from like the 1970s up until maybe six, seven years ago.

Uh, now you hear about that, but it’s, it’s much more rare. And my guess is perhaps we were stockpiling our DNA in case we destroyed ourselves. They could start us up again, uh, or maybe. You know, I, I sometimes wonder about the aliens that look like us. Um, maybe they, you know, maybe they’re gene tailored and, and, and purposefully by them.

Uh, I don’t know that they naturally, I mean, why would nature favor two arms, two legs and ahead, you know, I mean, the way an octopus’s body works is, is great, you know, , you have eight arms to, to, you know, do whatever you’re doing. Uh, so I, I sometimes wonder if, if it’s for our benefits, that we’re not afraid of them, that makes it easier for them to get around or certainly to blend in.

You know, if, if you see, you know, you saw an octopus, you know, walking down the street, you know, you, you’re not gonna be so apt to talk with them, but if it’s just some pretty girl behind the counter and, and your, your drug store or wherever, um, that’s a good way to find out about humans is to live among.

So that’s my guess with a DNA gathering. Yeah. It’s um, for whatever reason, it’s not real popular anymore, they don’t seem to be doing it so much. Yeah.

[00:36:27] Jeremiah: The whole thing just fascinates me, like in the, um, hybridization program where you hear a lot of, and I’ve actually interviewed two ladies who claim to have been abducted and, uh, been shown children or babies and, uh, had their stomachs tampered with, or, you know, examinations of their unborn child.

And it’s just all fascinating and kind of makes you wonder, like, what’s the end game here? Is it like, are, are we Destin for failure? Cause I think this is just my opinion. My take from my research is I feel like time is kind of cycl cyclical and that there’s been. Civilizations before are known time. And I think the great pyramid is from a previous civilization.

That’s just kind of been taken over by, you know, our recorded history. But, um, I, I don’t know. I think it kind of makes you like, on one hand kind of scared on the other hand, it’s kind of like, well, maybe they’re helping us out, but on the other hand it might be like, maybe they know we’re gonna wipe each other out or wipe ourselves out and they need to use these hybrids to like replace us when we’re gone.

I don’t know. It’s just something I

[00:37:49] Earl Grey: think about perhaps. I mean, that’s certainly a theory. I, I, I, you know, I, I wish I could give you a positive answer about that, but I do know that our visitors are concerned about the way that we treat each other, the way that we treat the planet. I mean, you know, I must have talked with at least 200 experiencers at this point, just because that’s what I do at MoveOn.

You know, I’m a executive committee member of the, uh, experience or re resource team at, uh, was started by Kathleen Martin, who was the niece of Betty and Barney hill. If you’re familiar with that, uh, it was the earliest, uh, oh yeah. Abduction case that we know about. But, um, we, we are more of a support for these people because it’s confusing.

Uh, it pulls your baseline reality out from under your feet, you know, people are afraid. Um, and, uh, and it’s more common than you would think. I mean, I’m constantly talking with these people that have, you know, that are having, uh, that have had an abduction or a visitation or that where they continually have them.

And it’s generational. . I mean, I have one gentleman who, uh, I, I took his, uh, case on about seven, six years ago. It was about six years ago, head of Homeland security at a major airport, highly educated man, a black building karate and a pilot. You know, he, he used to fly out to my moan meetings cuz he lived up, you know, closer to, uh, the San Diego area.

Uh, but uh, he, he was, uh, being visited when he was seven years old and his parents thought he was having night terrors. Uh, then the parents started noticing weird lights and, and, and just strange stuff was going. And, uh, now they, they accept the fact that, that, you know, their son was, was having these entities coming in and they would bring machines in that would float over his bed and they would take, you know, blood and DNA and elsewhere.

It was as though they were monitoring his health and, and, and his wellbeing, you know, uh, the man’s now an adult and, and he is the head of Homeland security at a major airport. And, uh, he found out that his birth father who he, um, didn’t know he had been adopted as a child, but he was, uh, he had a reunion with his, uh, birth father’s brother.

His father is, is, is gone. Now. He passed away, uh, talking to his uncle. He told his uncle about his, his history and his uncle told him, he said, my God, he said, your father told me the same exact story that you’re telling me. He said the people didn’t know about aliens or abductions and things back then, um, your, your father went through that.

I think that it might have made him insane. Finally, you know, uh, he kind of became a drinker in, in his later years. And, but, uh, now he’s, he’s kind of, he’s concerned, but he’s not worried. His daughter is, is, uh, you know, about 12, 13 years old, I guess. And, and there’s started to be some signs that she’s being, uh, visited as well.

So it’s, we got three different generations there. Uh, for my friend, we call him Mandy because I can’t, you know, we, we have to keep him safe. Uh, his job could be at risk if he came out and was known to be, you know, an alien abductee. Uh, but he, uh, his, uh, He feels, he was afraid at first, but he had the same entities visit him for like 40 years.

He gave them names when he was a child, they didn’t tell ’em a name. So he gave them names. He still calls them that they answer to it telepathically. They, they communicate not with their mouths, but with the mind we see that, you know, from case to case too highly telepathic our visitors. Apparently we have the potential to do that as well, but we’ve just kind of disabled ourselves.

I think by we’ve learned to vocalize and sing and we get our emotions out that way. Apparently that’s a rarity in the universe. I’ve heard that we’re one of the few, uh, uh, advanced cultures that never developed telepathy as, as a way to communicate. Um, but, uh, he, he believes that his entities are benevolent.

Uh, he, they, they hadn’t visited him for about two years. And I remember getting a phone call from Andy and him saying, I’m really concerned. My, my aliens have left me what what’s happened, you know, are they done with me? Or, um, and then about a month later, I got another phone call from him. He said, nevermind.

They’re back. . Yeah. And he was relieved. Now I. You know, I get other cases where, you know, I had one man that just hated his entities so much that he just wanted to be able to throttle them. I mean, he kept having the same implant put into his foot over and over and over again, he was a old, an elderly German man.

Um, he had had this thing removed six different times surgically and they would just paralyze him again in middle of the night and put it back in. Uh, he hated his entities and he felt like it was this intrusion. And, uh, you know, so there’s that, you know, people react differently to it. Uh, it seems like people that are in the military or involved with the military or the Pentagon, uh, tend to get the more militant entities as well.

Uh, I, I think that’s purposeful. I think that they’re trying to tell us something and, and they’re, they, they have scary encounters. Yeah, I I’ve got a, a Marine that was, uh, abducted through his Barrack ceiling. Uh, you know, his bunk mate noticed he was gone for all this time, you know, and, and then he said, he sees him in the middle of the floor covered with all these black marks.

And, and, and, and he’s just crying this big Marine, you know, your Marines don’t cry, but there he is just a mess. And, and he had to get him into the shower and try to get him because, you know, the guy was gonna be on guard duty in a few hours. Um, and for him as a counter was horrifying. I mean, the entities told him they were gonna steal his soul.

Uh, they, they, they, you know, showed him what looked like a robot that was menacing. Uh, you know, they, they didn’t paralyze him entirely. They, they kind of let this guy run around purposefully so they could show him that they could subdue. Uh, I don’t wanna meet those guys, you know, but I think, you know, having had so many cases now, I, I noticed that, you know, warriors get treated differently.

If you’re military, it appears that, uh, uh, sometimes you’ll get, uh, you know, kind of a warning that I don’t think is so much for that person, but just for humanity in general, that, uh, we’re still acting like barbarians. We are still killing each other as advanced as we are. We’re still acting like genus Khan out there.

Uh, same old problem. So the only problem is now we can destroy the whole planet, not just ourselves. And, uh, so people hear a lot of the two things that I hear from people are three things. Three messages people are left with is. You know, nuclear weapons, you need to get rid of them. You guys are gonna destroy yourselves.

And, and they’ve shown us that they disapprove of, you know, there’s a friend of mine, Robert SOAs, who is the commander of a, of a ICBM base in Montana. And they were hovered over by a UFO and, and it shot a laser down into where they had the missiles in, in the control room. And he watched every single missile go offline.

It’s like, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo. Every one of them just, yeah, we can do this. and, and you know, it was, it was like the minutes were going by, you know, you asked to call up, you know, the Pentagon and all this stuff. I mean, this was, you know, they, they took down our nukes. Then they go back online just like nobody’s business.

It’s like boo, boo, boo, boo. Yeah, we can turn them off and we can turn them back on again. You know, uh, the guy up at the guardhouse was freaking out, uh, you know, is like the radio back and forth, just, you know, because there’s a flying saucer overing over the, their, their ICBM base. Um, so that, that was a message for us.

It is to say, you know, you may think that you’re powerful and, and, but, but we’re actually in control of these and, and it’s bad and you’re gonna kill yourselves. Uh, the other two things that people hear are you need to elevate yourselves, elevate your vibration. We’ll hear that. It’s like, what does that mean?

You know, but a lot of it has to do with spirituality. It has to do with being aware. I mean, people can find a deeper self through meditation or, you know, spirituality, but that apparently is important for us as a species. And, um, and we get, uh, we get warned about ecological disaster. People will see just trash piled up and up and up going out of the, out, out of the atmosphere, you know, which I think is just, you know, it’s giving them a mental image of what we’re doing to this world.

And, and people are told that this is a very rare planet, the biodiversity and the beauty of it. You have this gem and you treat it like a trash pile. So tho those are the three things that people, I hear it over and over and over again, some of these people have researched since they’ve had their encounters and they know something about the phenomenon, but the lions share of people are just confused.

They, they don’t have anything to compare it to. And, uh, we look for certain markers from case to case, and those are the three messages people are left with. Yeah. I’m

[00:48:18] Jeremiah: glad that you mentioned the, uh, nuclear thing, cuz I was gonna ask you that as well, like. There seems to be a huge UFO presence around nuclear reactors and during war times and stuff like that.

And makes you think that they’re, you know, Medling with our trajectory, like maybe they’re trying to prevent us from going overboard or cuz you always

[00:48:47] Earl Grey: hear about destroying ourselves perhaps. I mean, we hear that from case to case that you guys are gonna destroy yourselves and you don’t know how rare intelligence is in the universe.

I think it’s, you know, maybe they’re watching their science project going awry, uh, but. You know, and, and I know you were talking about that you had been reading David Jacobs and a lot of these guys, and a lot of these guys feel like it’s an invasion. I’m more with, uh, Dr. John Mack who put out a book called, uh, abduction.

And he was, uh, head of, uh, psychology at, uh, Harvard. I believe it was Harvard, Harvard. Uh there was a lot of blow back for him when he decided that, you know, this was a real phenomena and he, he threw himself into this great study of it. And he was one of the, you know, early people that you know, was doing hypnotic regression and, and then talking to abductee that it was a real thing, but he believes that, uh, it it’s that our visitors are much like us, that there’s benevolence.

And there’s some that are less benevolent. um, and I’m kind of in that school. I, I think that, uh, I don’t think that they’re all our space brothers, but I don’t think they are enemies or, or something that we should fear. We know they’ve been here at least since 1947 when the Roswell crash happened. And that was a spaceship.

I mean, I know the Jesse Marcel’s family, they’re all very dear friends of mine and they grew up hearing these stories. And, and, uh, I know my friend, Denise, Marcel, her, her father handled the, the memory medal is what they call it. After the Roswell crash, it was lighter than foil. Lighter. Light is a feather, but the Tenile strength, I mean, they shot bullets at it and, uh, it, it retained its shape, a bullet couldn’t harm it.

Uh, and if you would crumple it up, it would crumple up like foil, but then it would go back to its original shape. So it kind of got the, they. We call it memory metal for lack of a better term, maybe. Uh, but, but her father held that in his hands when he was 10 years old, his, her grandfather was a first official out to the Roswell, uh, debris field.

After the crash, it was about a square mile across, it was fanned out. It was something hit with a great force. And, uh, the, the main material that they found was this weird stuff that looked like foil, but acted like nothing that we had.

[00:51:27] Jeremiah: Um, yeah, I, a hundred percent, a hundred percent believe that Roswell crash was a real crash.

And I believe, well, this is just me personally, but I believe that there were alien bodies found and possibly living alien entity. And I think that there was some type of deal struck with the go. For secrecy in re exchange for like technology advancements, but that’s just what I think happened.

[00:52:02] Earl Grey: yeah, I, I I’m similar.

I have similar thoughts about it. Uh, the day after Roswell is a pretty good book. Uh, what’s his name, uh, Corso, uh, was an official that, uh, and, and he, he wrote a book called the day after Roswell, and it talks about how they, they took these materials to different, uh, universities, different, uh, aerospace companies.

They acted like they had gotten at, it was some foreign acquisition that spies had gotten it from another country and then figure this out. And apparently, you know, there were some electronics that were in there like circuitry. Uh, there was supposed to be fiber optics that they found. Uh, one of the technologies that supposedly came from this is, uh, night vision cameras.

uh, and, and, uh, it’s a very interesting story. My mom was connected with, uh, my mom was connected with the Pentagon. Uh, she actually worked for the Howard Hughes as one of his secretaries. And Chad have security clearance because she, you know, she, back then you would, you would dictate they, they would, they would have their meetings.

And my mom was like taking this stenography from these meetings and they also sent my mom out to a deep, underground military base. That’s a whole other story, but I grew up with this strange arcane knowledge. You know, my mom did like a little disclosure number on me when I was five thinking that I would never remember.

You know, you were a baby girl, you know, years later when I would keep asking her questions, you know, and she would just. Put her, you know, she’d face Palm and just say, I can’t, I wasn’t supposed to ever tell you that. And your mom could go to prison. You can’t talk about this. You know, I , I had to take oaths, you know, but she told me that, uh, you know, similar stories about the technology that, uh, apparently under the desert, they were trying to figure out how these things worked.

And, and I think there were bodies too. And I think there was a living one, there were two crash sites. You know, there was one in Corona, New Mexico, which was about, uh, 7,000 miles away from, from, uh, uh, the Roswell crash site. Apparently this scene, it, when it hit, uh, the, the habitat module. Was left in Corona and that’s where they found the bodies is, is the way the story goes.

The rest of this thing shot back up into the sky, like a super bowl and came back down in Roswell. And that was just the light material that they found there. So, uh, somebody from, uh, probably Wright Patterson, air force base, cuz that’s where they take, uh, you know, they would take materials. That’s where they took a Japanese zero that they acquired during world war II, you know, to reverse engineer certain things and figure out stuff.

So they, according to my sources, they, they that’s where they’ve taken a lot of the alien materials. Of course, Robert Bigelow’s aerospace company in, uh, Las Vegas, Nevada, apparently he’s getting, uh, a lot of interesting material samples and stuff out there. I don’t know if they’ve figured out how many of it works, but, uh, they sure are trying.

Yeah, for real. But, you know, if they were, if, if they were invading us or if they were evil, if there was all evil intent, I mean, they’d been here since at least 1947 and, and here we are, you know, we’re still doing the same old stuff, you know, fighting our wars and you know, the human soap opera or the human zoo, whatever you wanna call it.

Uh, we’re still here. And, and, uh, you know, if it was an invading force, they they’re doing a lousy job of it. so I, I don’t think that’s the intention. Uh, I don’t think that they’re here to steal our souls. I don’t think they’re here to, but I, I do think they’re concerned for us. I think that, uh, if you’re in the military, they may play, they may mess with you a bit.

Just kind of put us in our place. I I’m I’m gathering, uh, And, uh, but I think that whoever is overseeing whatever operation that is going on here, because there are a multiplicity of races that are visiting us, whoever’s in charge there’s rules and they, they can’t do certain things, you know, not supposed to harm us, not supposed tos.

Certainly. Um, whether that happens sometimes probably, I mean, we have people that break the law. Right. You know, so I guess that threat is probably there, but I don’t think that’s the core of what’s happening. Uh, I think that they’re worried for us that they’ve been here a long time that we’re our, we are their pet project and you, you watch your pet project going awry.

You’re gonna try to get it back on path. And I think that’s a lot of what we see.

[00:57:05] Jeremiah: Yeah. I, yeah, it does make you kind of wonder, cuz like you said, if. Yeah, they really wanted to exterminate us. Um, they would’ve done so already, especially how much more advanced technology they were at that time. And even still, like, we still can’t fly planes.

Like there are UFOs and all that stuff, so yeah, it definitely, um,

[00:57:30] Earl Grey: does. I think they’re concerned for us. Uh, they they’re worried that we’re going to destroy ourselves and I, I I’m like you too. I think that there’s a cyclical, a cyclical thing that happens with, with, uh, civilization. I, I, I think that our history only goes back so far and there’s been other civilizations before us, perhaps he looked exactly like us.

Maybe not. I don’t know, but, uh, I, I don’t think they wanna see us go that way. We we’ve been here a long time. Uh, they’ve been working with us for a long time and, and we’re, uh, I think that, that, that we may even be related to them. I mean, if they’ve been here, as long as I think they have, they may have had a hand in human evolution and it wouldn’t surprise me if, uh, they had, you know, given us some interesting DNA.

there are certain blood types that they just do not understand that have a propensity for healing, like O negative. My wife is O negative. She just doesn’t get sick, you know? And she just from, you know, and I know a lot of people that have that, and I I’ve heard that there’s, uh, some kind of anomalous connection.

Uh, the RH, uh, types of blood are, are, uh, interesting. And then they can’t really track where these, you know, blood lines came from originally. It’s like they pop into existence. So, uh, yeah, they’re interested in us, but I don’t think there are. Yeah, I don’t think so. Anything, I don’t think there are space brothers though.

Not necessarily some we’re like their, uh, some probably don’t

[00:59:07] Jeremiah: like us. We’re like their, uh, aunt farm. They just like watch us or we’re like the Sims that video game, the Sims, yeah.

[00:59:16] Earl Grey: oh my God. The alien Sims. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. If your Sims, you know, program up and did what it wanted to do and flipped the bird, you know, that’s more like us or reality TV, I’m guessing we’re pretty frustrating.

Yeah. Their reality TV. I don’t think that’s far fetched. I mean, you know, we, we wanna be entertained and, uh, people, their science project is sometimes, you know, becomes their, their joy as well. So, you know, uh, I think that we’re a work in progress and they don’t want to see us destroy ourselves that that’s I think the main motive.

So I’ll ask

[00:59:57] Jeremiah: one last deep question, I guess. Uh, what about the whole theory that their time travelers? I

[01:00:07] Earl Grey: think we can travel. I’ve heard that they can travel back in time. I don’t know that they can travel forward, but, uh, I’ve been told that time is a shared hallucination that we live in that makes it convenient for us as humans to hold a, you know, have a, have a time clock and clock in and clock out and stuff.

But, uh, that it’s much more malleable, more fluid than we think it is. And, uh, I, I believe that they can go back in time. Yeah,

[01:00:39] Jeremiah: I think so. Or like some people say there, our future selves, like future humans.

[01:00:46] Earl Grey: Yeah. Us from the, as jock filets, uh, as jock, file’s old, uh, theory and, and. I think some of it’s probably that, I mean, I had, uh, I was friends with, uh, the bass guitar player from the band.

Yes. Chris quire, uh, long story, but I’m a musician as well. And, uh, I, I, he married a, a mutual friend of ours and so I sort of, he wound up becoming a friend of mine and he had a, a UFO encounter back in 1977. He was in the UK going to a gig. Uh, he had his bus driver pull over cuz he had to use nature’s bathroom.

So there he was standing there. Peeing on a rock and he feels like some somebody’s watching him, just that feeling of eyes behind your back, you know, and he looks up and there is this right out of a science fiction movie, this, this a flying sauce, or about 40 feet across, uh, silver, no windows in it. But, uh, a little string of light spinning around like a carnival ride.

He said that he called them. He said they were garish looking lights, like you’d see in a carnival. Uh, he watched this thing tilt to its side and then shoot off into the distance in the blink of an eye and, and into the vanishing point. And it made quite the impression on Chris and he would, he would wanna talk about.

ETS, you know, till late at night, but he was asking me, uh, where do you think they come from? And I said, well, there’s one, you know, idea that some of these are us from the future, their time machines and maybe they’re human historians going back. And maybe that’s what happened with you. I mean, John Lyn told the same story.

I, I talked to, uh, John Lennon at the time was, was broken up with Yoko. He, he was with his, uh, old secretary, uh, may Pang and I’ve talked with may and she saw it. She was there, it was in New York. John calls her into the room. He says, what am I seeing? And are you seeing it too? Uh, he thought he might be having an acid flashback or something.

She comes out there and she said, oh my God, it’s a flying sous thing was hating in front of their picture window. Uh, they watched it go between buildings when it left, but it had the little screen of lights on the bottom. And I wonder. Maybe there’s like some music historian in the future, uh, going, going back, you know, into the past.

Uh, I wonder if the same, uh, flying saucer has been, was seen by Beethoven and, and Mozart and those guys too. I’d be, I guess I should do a deep dive into some, you know, music history to find out. So yeah, there, there may be some that are coming from the future. That might be us. Chris liked it so much. He wrote a song called aliens and the chorus is aliens are only us from the future.

Uh, you can find that on, on, uh, the YouTubes as put in Chris Squire, dash aliens, and the song will come up. I think he was inspired by our conversation to write it too. He never told me that, but it’s pretty close.

[01:03:49] Jeremiah: uh, it’s pretty

[01:03:50] Earl Grey: obvious.

[01:03:51] Jeremiah: Pretty pretty

[01:03:52] Earl Grey: obvious. Yeah. Thank you, Jeremiah. Oh, just, I’m gonna have to look that up.

Tell everybody. Yeah, everybody, you know, if, if what I’ve been talking about out there in, in, in listenership, uh, if it’s meaningful to you, if you’ve seen a UFO or you’ve had an en encounter, do go in and do put in, uh, a siding report, if you’ve seen entities, uh, you can put in a, the, we have a, a questionnaire, the E R T the exp the experience or resource team, uh, it’ll just say, uh, you know, experience or questionnaire.

You can fill that out. Somebody will get ahold of you. We’ll talk with you about your siding. And, uh, believe me, we, we have some amazing cases, so you’re not alone out there. That’s what we do. So yeah.

[01:04:43] Jeremiah: If, um, anyone wants to, uh, look at you or your works, or, um, get in contact with you, uh, how would they go about doing so.

[01:04:56] Earl Grey: Well, I’m on Facebook. I’m just Earl gray, but everybody can read my page. And I, I post a lot about what I’m doing. If I’m, you know, working on a, you know, documentary or radio show or a podcast like, like this one, uh, I’ll usually put it up there so people will know about it. Uh, if you have a burning desire to get ahold of me, um, I do have a Gmail account.

It’s Earl gray Anderson, uh, gray with a E G R E Y, uh, Anderson with an O Anderson. Son of Ander. Uh, so Earl gray Anderson, That’s that’s me. And, and, uh, I’ll get that. Um, other than that, uh, go to Uh, if you go to the experience or resource team page, I’m in there, and I’m also speaking at the Denver symposium in two weeks.

So if you’re in the Denver area, uh, do come and check us out. And what

[01:05:51] Jeremiah: does that all, uh, entail for anyone who doesn’t know?

[01:05:58] Earl Grey: There will be many speakers, very well known speakers. Uh, Kathleen Martin, that I was speaking of earlier, who is Betty and Barney Hill’s niece will be speaking. Uh, Peter Robbins, who, uh, was bud Hopkins, assistant.

Bud Hopkins was the guy that spearheaded experience or research. And, uh, Peter was there for all that for every hypnotic regression and, uh, he’s he’s written books and, uh, and, uh, amazing guy he’ll be speaking. Uh, and what I’m doing is, as I have on the Saturday and Sunday, I’m, I’m running an experience or workshop.

I’ll tell my own story because actually I am an experiencer. I’ve had a face to face and, and it’s a very real thing. Um, and, and I’ll be talking about that. I’ll be talking about some of our more amazing, uh, experience or cases where people have had, you know, have been abducted or con you know, visited.

And, uh, and then the floor will be opened up for people to share their own, uh, their own experiences. Uh, the press will not be invited, uh, photos and stuff will not be allowed in the workshop because we, we, you know, respect people’s anonymity, and it could be scary for somebody coming forward and, and saying that they’ve met with aliens, but, uh, it it’s more common than you would think.

  1. I, I talk to so many people that have gone through this and they come from all walks of life. And, um,

[01:07:32] Jeremiah: if you’re not in the Denver area, is it gonna be available like after the fact, like, do you guys,

[01:07:39] Earl Grey: uh, I do know that they’ll have it available to stream through Mo on TV. I think that that’s, uh, I think it’s like 70 bucks a year or something, but that’s a vast library of, of just from all the symposiums, every speaker, uh, films and, and, and television shows.

And it’s, it’s all on there and I, I actually pay for it and it’s worth the subscription. I think. So, uh, the symposium, everything will be, uh, collected, filmed and, and will be collected and, and will be watchable to the general public if you, uh, if you get a Mo on TV

[01:08:16] Jeremiah: subscription. All right. Sounds good. Well, thank you for coming on and speaking with us.

And, uh, I definitely learned some things. Also glued to your stories, cuz I love hearing about all that stuff and uh, every little bit of knowledge I can get, I like to, uh, keep it in my little memory bank.

[01:08:39] Earl Grey: me too. It’s addicting. Isn’t it? Yeah. It’s the most interesting thing on planet earth and it’s happening and it’s the act of phenomena it’s happening right now.

And it’s on in the newspapers, it’s on the news. They don’t laugh at it anymore. They don’t play the X files theme anymore. it’s being taken very seriously. You know? I mean the military has come forward and said, yes, it is real and they’re not ours and they’re not rushes or China’s so, uh, that says a lot about, you know, it’s very different the times that we live in, it’s uh, kind of a blessing.

It’s amazing. So. Now is the time to check it out. Hopefully

[01:09:19] Jeremiah: that will let more people come forward that have had experiences and not be afraid of being laughed at or scoffed at it. Just opens up the door. Yes.

[01:09:31] Earl Grey: Yes it does. Yes, it

[01:09:34] Jeremiah: does. Well, thank you for coming on.

[01:09:38] Earl Grey: It’s my pleasure, Jeremiah. I’ll be back sometime if you want.

I, I enjoyed, uh, talking with you. Oh yeah, definitely.

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Aliens and Paranormal

Aliens and Paranormal

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Aliens and Paranormal

[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow terrestrials. And welcome back. Thank you for tuning in to the, what if the wrong podcast today, we have a nice discussion with mark and we’re gonna be talking about the UFO alien abduction phenomenon. Mark believes that he has been abducted himself and has a scoop mark on his arm that he thinks is proof that he was abducted, cuz he has no other recollection of how he got this scoop mark.

So we’re gonna get into that as well. But first, if you could go and rate and review the show, we highly appreciated would just let me know that you’re enjoying the content and also help keep us up on the rankings to keep the show going, bringing you all this great content and all these great guests.

Also, what if they’ wrong podcast is on buy me a coffee so you can donate to the show. If you like the content. Every little bit would be appreciated. And also if you donate, I will give you a shout out on the next episode. So let’s get with mark and remember question everything


[00:01:41] Mark: I’ve had paranormal experiences on a broad spectrum.

Uh, when I say paranormal, I mean, a, I use that more of a blanket term, uh, anything from parapsychology to UFOs to whatever you. and, uh, I, I’m also an amateur para psychologist. I’m about to get certified through duke university, uh, with a certificate. Um, I’ve got a lot, I’ve got eight over 18 years of earth of research behind me and I can talk about a lot.

[00:02:07] Jeremiah: Oh, wow. Yeah. Um, duke university. I’m in North Carolina now. So not too far.

[00:02:14] Mark: so it’s the, at the RH center there?

[00:02:17] Jeremiah: Yeah, I’m in, I’m over by Charlotte, so,

[00:02:21] Mark: oh, you’re not that far from me. I’m in Gainesville.

[00:02:24] Jeremiah: Oh, okay. Yeah. I didn’t know that they had a parapsychology degree or whatever you’d said.

[00:02:32] Mark: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people, a lot of, uh, people who watch these paranormal reality shows.

They get parapsychology mixed up with ghost hunting while they do connect and they are correlated. There is a difference. Um, there’s a deep difference. And, uh, I’m also, uh, just as a side note, I’m also a, uh, one of the other hats I wear, I’m a certified storm spotter for the national weather service. So I’m, I’ve been in a lot of I’ve I I’ve spotted tornadoes.

Uh, I, uh, look for ’em on Doppler. I, I try to help forecast them and stuff like, and spot.

[00:03:09] Jeremiah: Oh, that’s pretty cool. um, yeah, I always remember those movies, like, uh, what was that one? Twister and they were like storm Chas. We got a Sidewinder yeah, I liked that movie.

[00:03:26] Mark: Yeah, that, that was a, it was a pretty good movie.

It was entertaining and everything. And, uh, the real thing is much more intense. It’s much more terrifying and it’s much more serious.

[00:03:36] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, definitely. . That stuff is not to be played with either.

[00:03:41] Mark: I’ve been in two EF zeros and I’ve been in an EF two. And the EF two, I was in, uh, just as a note side note, um, was back in 1994 in Southern Birmingham, Alabama Metro areas on Palm Sunday.

And it was a, uh, a third of a mile wide, uh, EF two, uh, tornado, which is a significant tornado. Um, it. When I saw it approaching, you could just see this wall cloud practically touching the ground, this massive wall cloud. It was rotating really fast. Um, it was, it was amazing.

[00:04:15] Jeremiah: Yeah. That’s, that’s wild. I, I haven’t seen a tornado, but I was in Alabama, my cousin’s house and the, uh, alarm system went off saying like a tornado was coming

Yeah, but I don’t think it ever came by where we.

[00:04:33] Mark: Like the meteorologist James span says respect the polygon. That’s what I tell people. Right. I, I know all about storm structure. I could tell you about, uh, super cells. Uh Supplie linear convective systems, meso cyclones, the whole nine yards.

[00:04:49] Jeremiah: Oh, wow. Yeah, that’s pretty, uh, impressive.

So yeah, I just, um, yeah, just figured we could talk. And, uh, I’m always looking for other people who are into the whole UFO and abduction phenomenon and all that stuff. And, um, I like covering it on my show and I interviewed now, I don’t know the validity, but I interviewed two ladies who claimed to have had an abduction and, um, just give people a platform.

talk about their experiences. You know, that’s

[00:05:31] Mark: kind, you know, my in contrast to my show, I wanna tell you about my show. Um, first of all, when I look through your show, I noticed you caught you. You cover a very nice variety of topics, and my hat’s definitely off to you on that. Um, I saw a very interesting array of topics, really interesting array.

secondly, so project Stargate, friends research, I named it project Stargate, um, because of there was back I’m I’m a Barron and, uh, I was in the army for, uh, three years, uh, third infantry division mechanized, and, um, I learned years and years ago that there was a special access program, uh, called product Stargate.

And it was basically a, it was, it was ran by the army and it was monitored. I believe to some degree by the central intelligence agency in another three letter agency, um, that I’m not familiar with. At any rate, they were what they were, uh, they were experimenting with remote viewing and clairvoyance. And, um, clairvoyance is the ability, uh, per pair psychology.

The actual definition of clairvoyance is the ability to project one’s consciousness in other and view events or objects in time. Other areas of time and space, even pre cognitive. Now that’s the key right there. Um, now that accounts that does account for, I do believe that, uh, that some, some ghost sightings, uh, account for that phenomenon, some it it’s kind of like, uh, and sometimes, uh, I had Mike Rick sucker on my show, uh, Months ago.

And we were talking about, uh, the idea of time warping and, uh, GRA areas where the gravity’s kind of whacked a little bit and having, having some, um, intense geomagnetic, uh, electromagnetic fields and stuff like that. It was riveting conversation. Um, But we think that there also sometimes there are time wars.

So that’s just examples of things that we research I’ve researched, uh, for over 18 years. The reason I got into researching is because ever since I can remember, I’ve had, uh, various different kinds of paranormal experiences. Um, Everything ranging from missing time to, uh, lots of UFO sidings with, and without other family members.

Um, I have trace evidence as I’m gonna show you here in a little bit, uh, that I can, I can share with you. Um, I’ve had this trace set evidence, uh, looked at by both Kathleen Martin and Darrell Sims. Uh, they seem to be pretty convinced that this, uh, scoop mark or whatever it is on my wrist is very consistent with what they’ve.

Very frequently over the past several decades. So, so we’re a research group first and foremost. We, um, what, we’re the whole idea behind project Stargate friends research is to share our research with the public, uh, first and foremost, but at the drop of a dime, I can go art bell. We, we can, I can go, we can flip the talk show mode and I can go art bell.

Just fine. No problem. I can go all out art bell on somebody. Um, but that’s what we are. That’s who I am. And that’s what I do.

[00:08:46] Jeremiah: Yeah. The I’ve been listening to the coast of coast for a long time. My show, I kind of model it around that. and um, like you said, I cover various topics and I like to dive into anything that I consider fringe and, um, Give people a platform to share their experiences and research and places that they couldn’t get to do that elsewhere.

Cuz like you probably wouldn’t see a lot of stuff I cover on mainstream TV or anything like that. So

[00:09:22] Mark: that’s what sets you apart from everybody else. And let me, and let me E encourage you to keep doing this because the more people that do this, the more, we’re all an important piece of these puzzle. The more of us who puts our piece out there.

The, the closer we’re gonna come to answering these que some of these questions. Some,

[00:09:41] Jeremiah: yeah. Some things are probably never gonna be answered, at least not in our lifetime, but who knows maybe on the other side, we’ll figure it out.

[00:09:51] Mark: correct. Hopefully. So, um, me personally, I approach things from I’m a little unique.

Um, I come at things I, I believe in science and I believe in God, basically that’s the bottom line. Uh, I believe that their synonymous and I believe that God, what we call science is real. A, and we have even begun to scratch the surface on it, but I also believe that what, what we call science is simply God’s methodology or the universe’s methodology, whatever you prefer to prefer as, uh, like the methodology of making everything in these three dimensions.

We, uh, we live in livable and for us to be able to better ourselves. That’s what I, that’s my philosophy. That’s the very bottom.

[00:10:37] Jeremiah: Yeah, if, uh, better ourselves and to experience life and, um, you know, they like this world is constructed for us to experience, like you said, cuz if you take everything down, so it’s basic form, it’s all just like energy and.

you know, this desk really isn’t a desk. If you take it down to like the microscopic level. So it’s just what we perceive. And we’re programmed, in my opinion, we’re programmed to perceive everything this way, but there are ways and techniques to go outside of, of that. And people have throughout time found ways to, to do that.

[00:11:25] Mark: Um, I recommend, I wanna recommend a guest for you if I okay. Um, and I can, I might can introduce you to this individual. His name is Dr. Barry TAF. If you can write that down, you have Barry. He is a Barry TAF, uh, PhD. He has a PhD in biomedical engineering. He wrote a book. He’s also, he’s a para psychologist and he wrote a book called aliens above ghosts, below explorations of the unknown.

And it’s basically, uh, it’s almost like I call it the parapsychology Bible for lack of a better term, cuz that’s kind of what it is. Um, and also like I have in many, many other researchers, uh, have, have, or is starting to see us some correlation between various different types of paranormal phenomenon.

And I can talk about that at length. If you ever want me. Oh, yeah. Get

[00:12:23] Jeremiah: into that. Let’s talk about that.

[00:12:25] Mark: um, yeah. So I can talk about that for sure. I, um, first of all, I want, we gotta kind of go back into my, uh, early life. Um, I was born and raised in Columbus, Mississippi, and, um, I, I had a pretty good upbringing.

We, my mom and dad, they were, they, they kind of sheltered me a little. Um, you know, I was able to watch TV a little bit here and there and, you know, I, they just demanded respect and obedience and they, they took very good care of me though. They took excellent care of me. They, uh, there was no abuse really going on of any kind.

Um, my throughout my childhood and, uh, I, uh, I was raised in a town called, uh, Columbus, Mississippi in Lowes county, uh, which is right on the Alabama. And I had my grandparents, they lived down south and Laurel, Mississippi, uh, which is where my mom and dad reside currently. Um, so I had a pretty good upbringing, but one thing though, um, is I, I noticed at a very, very young age that think that I, I was having these bizarre experiences that, um, people would raise their eyebrows out, uh, things that I could see that my mom and dad or other people couldn’t.

And usually it was like, it was a man. It was the same person every single time, uh, this guy. And, uh, I, I, I don’t know if he was my guardian angel. I I’m about, I’m pretty sure that’s what he was. Uh, I think he was my guardian angel or something, uh, to that effect, but he, um, at any rate, he. I would see him all the time.

And I would climb. What I would do is I would climb underneath, uh, our dining room table in the dining room, in this house in Mississippi. And when I would crawl under there, he would show up at a, just practically outta nowhere. And he would crawl under the table and talk to me just like me and you are having this conversation right now as we speak.

Um, and so I started having these experiences, um, One of my earliest experiences that I remember I was visiting my grandparents in south Mississippi, and we, um, I was staying in this basement room and I, I think you could call it, probably considered this like some sort of close encounter experience of some kind.

Uh, but I, I woke up and there were three entities standing at the foot of the bed and these entities were very small. They were approximately three and a half foot. uh, three and a half to four foot. Uh, they were about, they were taught a little bit taller than me. Um, cause I was about four years old or something like that.

Um, anyways, these, uh, these entities. Didn’t they had very, they had very, very small little areas that you could call a mouth. They had, um, the, what, these little nub things that looked like, I guess they were ears. I don’t know what they were. Um, and two little holes, like right up here. And then they had these big black app, wraparound eye lenses.

And, um, they also wore these little what looked like a, like a really dark maroon robe with a hood over it. Kinda like a Dr. CLO. That was one of my, uh, young, that was one of my earliest, uh, experiences that I remember.

[00:15:44] Jeremiah: Yeah. It’s a very common thing to, um, people who get abducted. Now, I’m not saying you got abducted, but maybe did.

Um, but people who got abducted from their room and bed and everything like that, it’s usually three, three gray type aliens. deck do it. And I don’t know what the significance of that is, but, um, yeah, from a lot of encounters I’ve read and heard about it always seems to be three and they usually are like assisted by a taller gray type being or a Manto type being.

So yeah, you definitely, it definitely fits the, the, it hits

[00:16:32] Mark: the profile. For sure. I don’t like, I don’t like to jump to conclusion his brother. I, I really don’t but you know, if it looks like a pig and it works like a pig, it’s probably a pig. Yeah. That’s what they say. But let’s go deeper. Let’s go a little bit deeper if you want to.

Yeah. Um, so moving forward, let’s move forward about, you know, maybe, I don’t know, four years, I think I was about eight years. One summer, my grandparents from south Mississippi, they came up, they spent the weekend at our house and, um, they actually, uh, when it was time for them to go, they were ready to go home.

Sunday. I just, outta nowhere, I just had this overwhelming desire to go with ’em. I was like, Hey, you know, I was, I begged my mom and dad to let me go. And they did, you know, we got in the, we got in the vehicle and, um, we started, uh, heading south and, uh, through, through the state of Mississippi, And, um, as it was getting dark, this is how I recall these events.

I recall these events as, uh, in kind of in this order. We started, I remember where this started because I would, I, I saw a sign, an exit sign off this highway, and I know the general area that this happened in. Uh, cuz I remember when I was little seeing the sign lit up by the, uh, car lights, um, By the lamps.

And I could see that it was an exit for Philadelphia, Mississippi. So not very shortly after we passed that exit. Now keep in mind, it was around, uh, 8 50, 8 55 in the evening. It was summer and it was getting dark. It had just gotten dark and we’re, we’re going down the highway and outta nowhere, this very bright fiery object flies in front of our vehicle.

I felt stunned. I felt afraid and very confused. Uh, my grandmother was very outta sorts and the next thing we knew, uh, we were probably about an hour away from their house at this point. Uh, and we should have gotten there by 10 o’clock, but it was close to midnight when we actually got there. How can that.

Uh, I got very sick to my stomach. I, I got, I threw up, uh, I, I was very sick. I was fine the next day, but, um, experiences like this, that I’ve had a lot of times they’re followed up by other types of phenomenon. Uh, like for example, uh, I had a UFO siding when I was older and, um, I was having this UFO siding almost every night for about two months, one summer.

And, um, I had a witness, my partner, Greg that’s on my show. Uh, he’s one of my co-hosts and my partner, uh, Greg, I, I, we got, we used to work together and I, when we got off, when we were about to get off work, I asked him, I told him what I’d been seeing. Uh, I told him what’s been happening and he agreed that when we closed up shop, we were gonna go, he was gonna follow me back to my house and, and come.

Well, he did. And sure enough, it wasn’t within five minutes of him staying there. This object manifested, uh, in the horizon, not too distant horizon and it seemed to have the ability to implode and then reappear somewhere else in another area of space. So later that night after he, after all the, the event, uh, transpired, um, I had a brief, uh, what a akin to a Poulter, uh, outbreak in the house I was living at the time.

So, I mean, there’s a lot of things that could, that I’ve seen personally. Um, uh, that’s just a couple of my experiences that I remember where I had some other Paran types of paranormal phenomenon associated. There would be associated with parapsychology, including, uh, a sort of telepathic. Idea projection into my head, like, come with us, like in the first experience I told you about it wasn’t it was not a language that it was used towards.

It was ideas, like come with us, stuff like that,

[00:20:42] Jeremiah: kind of like, um, yeah, they just put the thought in your head kind of thing. It’s not like actual like speech or talking. You just kind of know, is that how it was. .

[00:20:56] Mark: Yeah. I mean, it’s just like, it’s really hard to describe. They’re not your thoughts and what scares me about what, the thing that kind of creeps me out about that is I’ve also studied some demonology and that kind of sounds like possession in a way, but it wasn’t, I know I wasn’t demonically possessed or anything, but it’s kind of similar to that.

Uh you’re you’re someone else’s consciousness is operating in your mind, it being projected to you or whatnot.

[00:21:21] Jeremiah: Now, have you, um, tried to go through like the hypnotherapy or regression. Hmm.

[00:21:31] Mark: So that’s a good question. Um, I’m a Mo member of Mohan. and we’re starting up, uh, here in Georgia. We’re starting up.

We’re actually about, uh, me and, uh, some other, well, this, this one of my fellow members, I should say, this is his, his, uh, group that he’s starting and I’m, I’m gonna, uh, I’m. I might be assisting with it. Uh, it’s an experience’s group and, um, As far as, before I made, I have not made a decision on whether I want to try hypno, hypno, regression.

Um, it’s kind of one of those things like, do I, do I want to add trauma to this? Do I, you know, is it gonna really screw me up? You know, is it, do I really wanna know what happened? Because a lot of the cases I’ve already studied already. Uh, most of them weren’t very.

[00:22:19] Jeremiah: yeah, it’s one of those double edged swords.

It’s like, do I want to know or will it make things worse or, uh, yeah, I understand that completely. Um, cuz like you said, a lot of the stories I’ve heard from David Jacobs and all that is like, yeah, the people have terrible experiences, but of course their memories are pretty much wiped until they go through.

regression or whatever. So, yeah, I was just curious if, if you were planning on doing that to try to get some answers, but maybe you don’t want to get the answers.

[00:22:58] Mark: I don’t know I’m gonna prayerfully consider it, but at the same time, um, one of the reasons why I wanna be involved with this, uh, group, uh, is because one thing it’ll give me a direct in my face insight.

I’ve I’ve studied tons and tons of, of Abdu abduction cases. Over the years, I’ve had, uh, I had Kathleen Martin on my show twice, a couple, two or three times, and we talked about Betty and Barney heard that, you know, her aunt and uncle Betty and Barney hill, we talked about a lot of stuff. She ran and experienced her group along with this lady named den Denise stoner, uh, who I also had on my show.

Um, and they were, they ran that for a while in Florida. Down in Florida, uh, for, and, and separately from Mohan.

[00:23:45] Jeremiah: Yeah. It’s definitely interesting that Benny and Barney hill case is, um, pretty dang. Um, well, I believe it, but I’m saying it’s pretty hard to dispute their case. Uh, if you’re like a denier or whatever,

[00:24:04] Mark: if you’re a Michael Shermer or a Philip Glass, understood.

Yeah. You know, you know, it’s, it is funny, you know, I, I catch my, you know, every once in a while, um, I like to listen to Joe Rogan. He’s he’s I like the way he does his podcast. There’s the chill environment, the, the campfire style conversation, kinda like we’re having right now. Um, very similar. Um, but, uh, I saw him, uh, when he interviewed, um, uh, he interviewed, he had several really good interviews.

I recommend people checking out. One was Dan Aroy, uh, the actor. Um, and he’s very interested in the paranormal, um, in real life. And, uh, the other one was Bob Lazar and that was just probably one of the best interviews, more detailed and descriptive and brutally honest interviews I’ve seen. And I, I tend to believe his story.

I tend to lean that.

[00:24:53] Jeremiah: Yeah, I think I’ve heard at least sections of that, Bob Laar one. Um, I have to go back and listen to the whole thing again, but yeah, I’ve always liked Joe Rogan myself. Like I just like how he’s the same type of way where he just gives people a platform to talk. And, um, it’s not really like geared towards one thing or the other.

It’s kind of like, just tell me your experience. And, uh, like I, I listen to a ton of. One’s about like people’s iowaska trips and stuff and, um, yeah, that kind of stuff like really fascinates me, like,

[00:25:30] Mark: yeah, me too. It does me too as well.

[00:25:33] Jeremiah: Yeah. I’ve never done it and I’ve been to Peru, but I went to like, do the, um, see all the ruins and stuff like that.

And I’m actually going back to Peru in like two weeks. And. I, I won’t be doing iowaska, but I’ll be looking at the ruins again. I hope to get footage so I can make like a short documentary or something of like all the weird stuff there that just doesn’t make sense for like traditional history.

[00:26:02] Mark: Yeah. AB I I’m fascinated.

I’ll tell you what, man. I’m really fascinated with the NASCA. Uh, the, the NASCA lines is, is very mysterious. You know, who, how the. Did they get those things done as, as, as accurately and as, and as they have, it’s just incredible.

[00:26:20] Jeremiah: Yeah. And then also why, like, they won’t be able to see it from the ground. So what were they doing?

Were they, I’m not saying like instantly it’s aliens, but like why would they create that? They can’t even like admire their own work.

[00:26:38] Mark: Yeah. And, and, you know, there’s a lot, there are other possibilities about that, but at the end of the day, um, it speculated they did it to, to honor their gods in some way.

And who knows? I mean, there’s a, there’s, there’s evidence, there’s some, some evidence out there to support that some kind of non-human intelligence has, uh, has operated and interacted with us for at least a couple thousand years. And I find it very interest.

[00:27:04] Jeremiah: So through, uh, your research and everything and people you’ve talked to and stuff like that.

I know I’m in the camp of aliens being interdimensional. Um, and I know there’s a small group of people who think the same. Um, what’s your take on the whole alien thing? Do you think they’re from outer space, you think they’re interdimensional or are they kind of like a mix of both?

[00:27:32] Mark: Okay, so I’ll start with this.

I got a friend of mine. He’s actually, uh, a, a member of moan. His name is Joseph Jordan, and he joined moan decades ago. I want, I’m just practicing with this, but he joined moan many years ago and he started a sort of like an experiences type group as well. This is back in like the night early nineties. I think it was.

um, I’ve got his book. He, he gave, he sent me a copy of his book, but, um, at any rate, um, he did a lot of research and he started seeing some anomalies that were popping up in this research. Now some of this had religious overtones, which, uh, is hard for a lot of, is a pill, hard pill for a lot of people to swallow.

But, um, at any rate, Um, there, there are some cases there’s a, a pretty decent amount of cases that were reported to that, uh, that he investigated over the years. Or he, he was, uh, told by, uh, people who had, uh, experiences different, these types of contact experiences with, uh, non-human intelligence of some kind.

And they seem to not like the whole, uh, mention in God’s name or Christ name or whatever, or YWA or whatever. Your belief system is, uh, they didn’t like that at all. And the, um, the experience was terminated, uh, through using that, uh, that technique. Um, I actually had a very similar experience one time, uh, which I can talk about, uh, later, if you ever want me to.

Um, but at any rate, um, there’s a, uh, I, I tend to leave towards the interdimensional theory. I, I think it’s a mixed bag. I think there’s a lot of things at play here. I think that there. Different types of entities that are interacting with us. Um, a guy, I had a guy named Howard storm on my program. He was on salt mysteries, um, and Howard had a near death experience.

Uh, he ended up in a very hellish place, uh, that was kind of wrapped up in our dimension in some way. Uh, he was out of his body fully and, uh, people were ripping him to shreds and he was, and it got dark and. He had, and then turned into a very positive experience. And he was there with our creator one on one, and he was asking God, all these questions.

And then they got to the, the whole, I asked, I looked at him dead in the eye. I said, I said, Mr. Storm, what about aliens? And he said that God told him. uh, or the, be the Supreme being whatever you prefer that told him that yes, there showed him all these examples of different types of beings he’s created throughout dimensions and space and everything.

And, and he said, but the ones that were interacting with mankind at this point are up to no good. And that’s what he said. So, you know, these could be aliens. These could be. Um, but I think that they’re, they would most certainly have to be interdimensional in nature because, uh, you could call ’em alien.

You can call ’em interdimensional beings. You can call ’em whatever you want to call ’em. Uh, but the, the facts are this. We don’t know where the heck they come from or who they really. That is a fact, uh, we could be dealing with fallen angels in some cases, uh, we could be dealing with, um, each BA, uh, bad ETS.

We could be dealing with some sort of bio. I think that some things are biological Androids, uh, specifically the grays. Uh, they don’t seem to have a very high intelligence of any kind. Uh, they just seem to be like a worker B type thing. Um, they’re there for one purpose and one purpose only that’s to, uh, drag your tail out bed or out of your car in broad daylight, and then in the evening, and do things to you that are can to rape torture and mutilation.

So interdimensional, uh, extra terrestrial, it’s all the same at the end of the day. I believe it is. Um, and I think that there may be something else at play here that more, even more sinister, uh, at play that’s that’s involved with these.

[00:31:29] Jeremiah: Yeah, it’s kind of crazy to me, cuz like, if you just look at it one way or something like that, you could be like, oh, there’s just from outer space.

There are space brothers or whatever. But then I think like while I listen to stories of people who have. Mushroom trips or iowaska journeys or all these different things. And they will legit tell you they’ve met like gray type aliens on these trips that they’re having. And it would just make more sense to me, you know, maybe these be these whatever substances.

Are able to give people glimpses into these other realities, these other dimensions? Um, I don’t know. It’s just my take on it.

[00:32:21] Mark: Yeah. And is, I don’t think you’re, I think, I don’t think you’re off the beaten path at all. Very fascinating. And, uh, I have to, you know, I think I have to concede that that’s a definite possibility I’m, I’m open, we’re wide open to other possibilities.

Our, our motto is, is we listen to understand, not to listen, to respond. So that way, even if you disagree with their conclusions, you can still learn from other people.

[00:32:45] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, definitely. Have you heard of, um, well I’m sure you have, but, uh, LA Marzuk, he is totally on the, and he’s totally on the. Yeah, he’s totally in the camp of, uh, them being like demonic beings.

And, um, I think he has like documentary videos of like, um, implants and stuff, and he like prays on them, praise on them and they like disappear. So it’s just very interesting to me.

[00:33:20] Mark: absolutely. Um, I think, like I said, I think everybody’s at an important piece of, uh, the paranormal puzzle. Um, we also, now I’ll tell you this, um, there’s also, I’ve, I’ve had a lot of, I’ve had some other experiences that had, uh, various types of paranormal phenomenon.

It seem to be kind of a hosh positive of activity. I can, I can tell you talk about that a little bit. If you. yeah, yeah, go ahead. Um, when I was older, I was probably around 12, 13 years old. And, um, I had an experience one night. Uh, it was in the middle of the night or early morning. Uh, I’m not really sure what time it was, but it was in the middle of the night.

And I, I was about, you know, 12, 13 years. And I woke up and I, I could feel, I, I was paralyzed. I was, I felt like I was suffocating and I was paralyzed. I could see, but I couldn’t move my body or anything. But the weird thing about it was is there’s not, I was not laying on my bed. I could, I could not feel the bed underneath me, my pillow underneath.

I mean, it was, I was probably several feet levitating, both my bed. And when I woke up the next morning, I felt that I felt myself, uh, impact the bed and I slammed down the bed and I woke up at the following morning and there I had, what’s what they call scoop mark on my, uh, right wrist. And I’ve never had an injury there.

I’ve never been to the doctor. Uh, it looks like something, some kind of device or instrument just scooped a little piece of flesh off right here off my wrist. You can’t really see it cuz of the, my resolution’s kind of low my cam, but it’s there. I, I have a high resolution picture.

[00:35:02] Jeremiah: Yeah, I’ve heard about the scoop marks and then there’s the, um, three dots that are like a pyramid kind of thing.

And, um, I’m sure there’s others. I can’t think of off the top of my head, but yeah, all these abductions, definitely. It seems to always start with like an examination type of thing. And, uh, a lot of it turns like, I say sexual, but I don’t mean like porn or having a having sex or whatever. It’s more like reproductive sexual.


[00:35:35] Mark: sometimes it is though.

[00:35:37] Jeremiah: Yeah. And yeah, the whole hybridization, um, and like hybrid babies and all that stuff. Like yeah. That stuff like really fascinates me and creeps me out at the same time. It’s like, it is what are doing.

[00:35:54] Mark: my, I have a theory on that, by the way, I actually have an I a hypothesis rather.

Um, what’s that it kind of takes us back to Genesis chapter five, uh, in the days of Noah, uh, or Genesis chapter six, I think it was six. Um, I believe that it’s very possible that what, what these entities are are doing is trying to replicate that in some. Uh, in the days of Noah, the sons of God came before the Lord and they lusted after the daughters of men, they took ’em as WIS.

And there may have, there may have been some sort of offspring, uh, between whatever the, the sons of gods are and, uh, these women and which, uh, I think what I believe possibly could have corrupted our gene pool, um, in, in some fashion with their, uh, ne or their giants. And, um, I, what I think may be going, what could be possibly happening right.

Right now with this is maybe what if they’re trying to, uh, get that experiment going and, you know, again, or in a different way, try to achieve a similar result.

[00:37:00] Jeremiah: Yeah, it’s definitely possible. And something I’ve definitely thought about is like, and. I know a lot of people these days, like as soon as you mention, like religion, they’re like turned off and they’re like, oh, you’re just talking about that crazy religious stuff.

But like, if you take the dogma of religion out of it and just focus on the scripture and her, and it does line up pretty. Pretty, uh, pretty well because you have, like you said, the fallen angels, and then they went into the daughters of men and created the offspring, the NELI and all that. And yeah, it could be the same exact thing they’re trying to make, uh, this hybrid race or whatever.

And. A lot of times it seems to fail at it because from the, a lot of accounts I’ve heard about and looked into the babies always seem like sickly or weak, or something’s not right with them. And they ask the person that they’re, they AB abducted to like, hold the baby close to them and, and love on it.

And they like tell ’em like, oh, it’s a beautiful baby. And even if the woman is. Kind of disgusted by it and yeah, I definitely could see that being the case that, um, and I know it probably happened before, but it seems like was 1947, the Roswell crash seems to be like the kickoff point. Uh,

[00:38:38] Mark: yeah. Of the modern UFO era.

And as a, as an interesting side note, I’d like to add to that. If you don’t mind, 1947, ironically is the year that Aster Crowley died. Oh. And, um, Jack Parsch Hemond Jack Parsons and other people who was following, uh, his DIIC, uh, satanic type beliefs. Um, they performed ceremonies that when in one theory is they opened up some sort of veil where these entities came through, cuz he Crowley at one point, uh, claims that he had an encounter within being that he called LA L that’s Lima alpha, Mike.

And this entity looked very similar to what they call and what I saw in, in when I was a little, very little.

[00:39:22] Jeremiah: Oh, wow. That’s crazy. I actually didn’t know that but, um, yep. Yeah. I know about Crowley and how he’s evil and satanic. And he did a whole lot of like bad stuff while he was alive. And. Uh, I think I saw he got kicked out of Italy or something cuz he had this cult going on and

[00:39:44] Mark: he did, he, he, he had a cult going and uh, some people died.

I, from my understanding, uh, he was just, he was a loser. This guy was just a loser. I hate to say that I bet somebody, but that’s just the truth of the matter. Um, he let people die. He rumored to have murdered a few people, but I don’t know what there’s also rumors that he was like, they thought the whole, that whole thing was a big front, that he was like a spy for the British, uh, government, uh, spying on the, uh, uh, Germans.

Uh, during more war, I think one and two or at least one, I’m not sure if it was two, but anyways, there there’s all kinds of crazy rumors, but at the end of the day, it’s pretty obvious. The sky is a very wicked man.

[00:40:26] Jeremiah: Yeah. And the coincidence that , that when he died is when the whole alien like modern alien phenomenon, uh, started is pretty, uh, pretty crazy.

I’d never heard that one. So that’s something new, uh, for me. And then. I think also they’re messing with, um, portals and stuff at CERN over in Switzerland. I don’t know if you know about that, but, um,

[00:40:55] Mark: yeah, I really do. I’ve heard a little bit about it. I’m not, I don’t know a whole, I’m not on the up and up with that, but I’ve heard a little bit about it.

[00:41:02] Jeremiah: Yeah, so there’s a lot of weird stuff going on around cer and like when they reboot the machine, I think it back in like 2012. Uh, so I have an episode about CERN 2012 and how, um, a lot of people think our, I hate saying our world ended cuz like we’re still here, but the world that we knew. um, a lot, there’s a theory that when they rebooted CN in 2012, it kind of merged our reality with an alternate, um, like a parallel universe reality.

And I think that’s when the whole like Mandela effect thing really sprung up and people started like noticing things are not exactly how they remember. And, um, so yeah, it’s just another interesting thing that. You know, maybe they are over there and if you watch the like ceremonies they do, and the Godder tunnel conspiracy or the Godder tunnel opens ceremony and stuff like that, it’s just very strange.

And it doesn’t make any sense why they would, uh, perform those type of like acts or rituals or whatever. And unless they’re up to no good. .

[00:42:20] Mark: Yeah. I mean, it is, it’s very bizarre for sure. I mean, if you’re, if these are supposed to be nuts and bolt scientists, but you never know.

[00:42:28] Jeremiah: Yeah. So, yeah, it’s, uh, it’s crazy.

And you know, in the grand scheme of things from 1947 till now, uh, it’s really not a lot of time has passed. I mean, for us, because we. You know, we only live so many years. It seems like a long time, but, uh, in the grand scheme of the planet and everything, it’s such a short time. So, and then you see all the current events going on and stuff like that.

It’s like a lot of people are saying, yeah, we’re we’re are, were in the, uh, book of revelations or whatever. So

[00:43:10] Mark: now the book of Daniel.

[00:43:12] Jeremiah: Yeah. And. I, I say that to tie it in with the whole alien abduction thing and you know, what are they up to, or is this all part of the, what was written in the, you know, far past?

[00:43:29] Mark: Exactly. Yeah. You know, it is, it’s really interesting because, um, I had another experience one time. I think I wanna share with you. Um, if you, if you don’t mind. Yeah, go ahead. Um, this let’s go back to 1990. Uh, this is before, right? Not too long. Before I joined the military, I was invited to come to a party at someone’s house and they had a we award.

Now I wanna disclaim one thing. I do not recommend anybody under any circumstances ever mess around with the, a cult, what I call a cult objects like that, uh, very dangerous stuff. However, I was a skeptic at the time, you, I was very skeptical, uh, at that I haven’t woken up yet per se, where I started having these memories flooding back in, like I did in my mid twenties.

So, you know, I was just very skeptical about it. I didn’t think about anything that happened with my past really so much. I would just, all I cared about was girls and, you know, partying and this and that back then when I was really young. So we all, we all huddled around this little table and she had her OUIA board and on the, and then the plant chat was sitting there and, and I put my hands on fingers.

I laid my fingers on it. Very gently. Everybody else did. Then we had, uh, someone keeping notes. And there was some kind of force moving the plan chat. It was, it was, there was a type of force that was moving it around the type, the, uh, spirit board. And you could feel, it, it, it is, it is something I can’t describe.

It is just some kind of, uh, probably pre and natural, uh, force that was moving this plan, chat all over the board. You know, I wasn’t drunk. I wasn’t stoned. Uh, I wasn’t, I wasn’t, uh, on any kind of sub I maybe had one beer, maybe a beer. Uh, I was, I was very sober. I was very clear minded. Um, and it kept telling me to go answer the door.

Um, I went to the door and there were someone standing there. Like we could, we didn’t hear anybody pull up or anything. It’s just, they have a very, very long driveway. um, so you couldn’t hear someone pull it up. It’s just too far away. Well, low and behold, there was someone staying there when I opened the door.

No doorbell rang or anything. Well, a little bit later, it tells me to go answer the door again. Well, keep in mind, this is in the middle of summer, the dead heat of summer. And it’s like, you know, in the nineties, it’ very hot stifling and humid eeping. As I opened the door, there was nobody. But as I, after I opened the door and I stood there for a second, I felt this brusher really called air, hit me and it, and it put, it brought chills all over my body and they, we communicated, we, we started, we kept communicating with whatever this entity was, uh, at the time.

And then finally, I just like, you know, I’m, this is boring. I’m going home. Even though I was pretty, I was a little creeped out by the things that were happening. Um, I was just, I kind of got to the point where I was just like, you know, I had to go outta town the next day I wanted to go home and, and I, you know, I’d seen enough of it, you know, I believed it, you know, so I’m driving home and I lived on the other side of this estate neighborhood.

I’m driving home and there was these, uh, very tall street lamps, uh, on both sides of the road. And as I approached each set of street lamps, the lamp would, would turn. And as I, as I moved past it, uh, they would come back. I looked in my rear view mirror. They would go, come back on. Uh, this happened the whole way home from one side of this big neighborhood to another I, and as I, when I got home, I immediately, I felt really tired.

I got really, really tired and kind of agitated. And I wanted just to lay down and I immediately went to this really deep sleep. And as I was laying there, sleep. I had a, this vision, something akin to a, it was like a lucid dream or a vision or something is very, very powerful and intense and real. And in that dream, these two girls that was at the house were, were, were, they were kneeling in front of the board with the plant chat in the middle of the oui board spin really, really fast by itself.

And then the suddenly the. Um, plane chat flies off the table. The girls look like they’re in a trance of some kind. And as right as that flies off the table, I, I woke up and I sat up and there was what looked like an alien gray or something staying right next to my bed. I don’t know. That’s what I saw.

[00:48:04] Jeremiah: Yeah. That’s another like weird phenomenon too. And I know a lot of like scientists say. All day alien abduction phenomena is just sleep paralysis, which I think is hog wash. Cuz people get abducted in daylight and in their car and, and they’re not sleeping. So it can’t be sleep paralysis for all those cases.

So you can’t have

[00:48:31] Mark: sleep paralysis. Driving car in broad daylight. Darrell SIM says, has told me, uh, straight up that, uh, almost 60% of abductions occur in broad day. . Yeah,

[00:48:41] Jeremiah: so, I mean, that’s just the way they can try to discredit the whole thing. But what I was trying to say is like, um, there is another phenomenon with, I guess, sleep paralysis where, um, people see.

Demonic type beings, as soon as they like start to wake up, um, or if they get startled awake and there’s actually, what’s her name? The famous artist right now, Billy Eilish. She, um, she had an experience. She said that, um, one of her music videos is kind of about it and she woke up and there was. Like dark, demonic figure type of thing at the foot of her bed.

And she goes on talking about this whole experience and it just reminded me of what you just said when you had that, um, experience. So, you know, it could just be another, like I said, with the hallucinogens, like Luno gens, like it could just be another. Way that brains get tapped into something else that we are not really supposed to experience.

Um, maybe when you get startled outta sleep, it’s still not clicked into this world yet. I don’t know. Uh, and probably sound crazy, but

[00:50:01] Mark: not at all. I believe as a matter of fact, I’ll take that a step further. what if, what if to feature this? So what if our brains are simply a, like a biological processor and nothing else may, because para a lot of parapsychologists now are suggesting that maybe just maybe our conscious is remote and broadcasted to us and linked to us with like a cord or something.

I don’t know. Yeah. I’ve heard that too.

[00:50:28] Jeremiah: Makes sense. Yeah, I’ve definitely heard that, that we’re. we’re just the, um, I don’t know what you would call it. We’re just like the televisions and we’re receiving the signals, like

[00:50:41] Mark: an avatar.

[00:50:42] Jeremiah: Yeah. Like avatar. Yep. And, um, you know, a lot of that stuff. And I was talking with someone earlier and, um, we said how, it’s funny, how.

One thing will lead into another thing into another thing. And soon you have like a whole spider web worth of stuff that you never thought would fit together, but it ends up fitting together. Once you start looking at everything together instead of separated.

[00:51:12] Mark: Definitely. Um, do we go to a breaker or do you just keep, continue going through you plow through?

[00:51:20] Jeremiah: I usually just go until we’re done talking. Okay. But if you

[00:51:26] Mark: need a break, you can, I need to use the bathroom really quick. Is that cool?

[00:51:30] Jeremiah: Yeah, that’s fine. I’ll just edit it out.

[00:51:33] Mark: All right. I’m I’m sorry about that. No, you’re fine. I, the, I, the way I do when I do my, um, I’m, I’m my IMM used to doing it a different way.

I’m I apologize for messing that up. Sorry about that. Oh, no, you’re

[00:51:44] Jeremiah: fine. Yeah. Cuz my unusual only lasts about an hour, so.

[00:51:50] Mark: Okay, well, um, I’ll be right back in one minute.

[00:51:53] Jeremiah: Yep. No problem.

[00:52:01] Mark: Okay.


All right, man. Sorry about that. I I’m trying to get over some kidney stones and, uh, I’m afraid it’s played health, my urinary tract and whatnot. Oh yeah.

[00:52:48] Jeremiah: I’ve been there before. yeah, I’ve definitely been there

[00:52:53] Mark: before. How would you like to wrap this up? What do you, where do you, where do you wanna take it till the end of the segment?

[00:53:00] Jeremiah: Um, uh, I don’t even know. Usually I just like ask my guests to plug their stuff, like where they can be found and, and all that stuff.

[00:53:14] Mark: okay. So, um, this has been a really awesome conversation, man. I appreciate you, uh, having me on today. We are actually, um, I, you can find, I just wanna give a, give a shout out to, uh, every, all your audience and, uh, I really appreciate you letting me on today.

Um, you could, we can be found project Stargate, friends research is on Facebook. Uh, we’re also on, uh, Spotify, uh, audio only. And, uh, also check out our YouTube channel, which you can watch on your smart TV with the YouTube. and, um, this has been great, man. I appreciate it.

[00:53:56] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, definitely. I like talking to like minds and, uh, even if I don’t agree completely with someone, I can at least see their point of view and their perspective.

And, um, and then, you know, maybe can shift my. Uh, belief or shift someone else’s I don’t know, but at least have the opportunity to talk and not be censored or be, uh, create treated like a. You know, crazy person or

[00:54:28] Mark: something. Yeah, no kidding. And, and I think a lot of us have, have caught that kind of flack.

Um, uh, maybe some other time maybe, um, maybe if you have some time we can talk, I can tell you all about the, uh, coal mountain triangle. I’ve discovered it, it’s an area in north Georgia that, um, goes from Dawsonville to, uh, coming and then up to LJ and then back down. And it’s synonymous with lots of different types of Paran phenomenon, even a satanic cold as.

oh, wow. And I can talk about we’ll definitely, I’d be happy to talk about that sometime.

[00:55:00] Jeremiah: Yeah. We’ll definitely have to get into that. And I still, I don’t live that far from Georgia, so I’m hoping to get down there and see the Georgia Guidestones and all that good conspiracy stuff. So

[00:55:12] Mark: yeah, you oughta come.

We’re gonna be doing an expedition, some expeditions out in the coal mountain triangle. Maybe you can come out and hang out with us and, and, and explore the unknown with us. So. That’d be

[00:55:20] Jeremiah: great. Oh yeah, definitely. You’ll have to let me know. Um, and when it is, obviously I’ll be in Peru, uh, most of July, so, but, um, yeah, definitely.

I’m down for that. And down to talk again and talk more about, you know, the paranormal and stuff that you won’t find on your major programming.

[00:55:44] Mark: Yeah. And that’s what it’s all about. People. That’s where people like us coming into play. You know, that that’s our job, you know? Uh, I have, I have celebrity guests on my show.

I have people that no one’s ever heard of in my show. And these are all just as important. These stories are all just as important to me.

[00:55:59] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, definitely. And the more people I can talk to the better for me, cuz I learn things every, every episode that I do and I just like hearing. From other people and people who have experiences that I’ve never had, or have, uh, research that I don’t have.

And, you know, I don’t claim to know everything. So it’s good to have people who are like, well researched on, uh, different topics, cuz you know, I mainly focus on like the ancient past and aliens and UFOs and abductions and. But then I have big foot researchers on so I can learn about that. And then I’ve like did a episode with a medium talking about that and the lady ghost Buster.

So yeah. I like to, to hit different things and I like to learn and I’m constantly reading and learning. So it’s fun.

[00:56:59] Mark: well, you’ve certainly done a fine job of it and keep up the great work.

[00:57:03] Jeremiah: Oh yeah. Thank. Uh, thanks for coming on. And, uh, we’ll definitely, uh, catch up again.

[00:57:10] Mark: That’s my pleasure, man. Thank you for, for having me.

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Paranormal Mashup

Paranormal Mashup

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Paranormal Mashup

[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow terrestrials. And welcome back. Thank you for tuning in today. We’re gonna be talking to McKayla Ford. McKayla Ford is the host of the paranormal or what podcast, make sure to go check out her podcast. The link will be in the description of the show, but before we get to that, I just want to make a few announcements.

What if the wrong podcast is on buy me a coffee. So if you want to donate to the show, it would be highly appreciated. The link is in the description. Also, you can go to if you wanna reach out to me, you can message me a show topic, or if you want to be a guest, or if you just want to.

I’m always open to responding to emails in a timely manner and hearing from you. We’ll get to this interview here and McKayla is gonna talk to us. It’s kind of a mash up of her podcast. We’re gonna be talking about aliens. We’re gonna be talking about ghosts, all kinds of paranormal stuff. So sit back, relax and enjoy McKayla Ford and the paranormal or what podcast.

And remember question everything.


Hello and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast, I’m your host, Jeremiah. And I’m joined today by McKayla from the paranormal or what podcast. And we’re gonna be talking about her podcast about different things that she covers on her podcast. And you know how we always do question everything and, uh, just let people present.

What they find and what they’ve researched and what they’re passionate about. And we’ll introduce her now. Hello, Michaela.

[00:02:23] Michaela: Hello, Jeremiah. Thanks for having me on.

[00:02:26] Jeremiah: Oh yes, no problem. Thank you for coming on. Uh, how are you doing today?

[00:02:30] Michaela: I’m good. Thank you. Yeah. Great,

[00:02:34] Jeremiah: good, good. So I have to ask it’s a common question.

Uh, what got you started with the whole paranormal scene and then deciding you wanted to make a podcast about it?

[00:02:49] Michaela: Well, um, it’s quite a long answer. so sit back and enjoy yourself. Um, that’s fine. So it all started for me when I was about eight years old. I had already had, um, a couple of strange students when I was really tiny.

Um, , uh, this may seem really weird, but I was convinced that when I was about four years old, that, um, that some entity helped me to fly down the stairs when I was tiny. Um, and, and that’s a very weird experience. I sort of, um, I wasn’t allowed to come out of my bedroom cause I was only a tiny child. Um, but I, um, I did at night and I, I didn’t know how to get down the stairs.

And then I remember something picking me up and I remember very vividly floating down the stairs and being placed very carefully at the bottom of the stairs. And then I knocked on the living room door and my mum was sat, uh, or lived with my grandparents at the time. And they opened the living room door to see me stood there and said, how on earth did you get there?

And I said, I flew down the stairs. Somebody helped me to fly down the stairs and that was. The very beginning, although I didn’t remember that memory until many years later, but the, um, the main thing was when I was about eight years old, um, myself and lots of friends in my classroom, um, at primary school had what you might call, um, a group experience.

Uh, some people might call it a group hallucination. So we were playing out in the playground at lunchtime and next to our school yard, there was the sports field. And then, um, I used to live in a tiny village that was in the middle of the countryside. And after the sports field, there were two or three other fields that went up this gently sloping hill.

and we used to have a sort of, um, a legend in our school of these creatures that we used to call the zombies. Now, this was not anything like modern day zombies. We, we used to sort of the word that we had for monsters at that time was zombies. Um, and we used to have this story of this monster or zombie that used to work around in the field, outside school.

And one particular day, there were some kids next to me and one of them shouted out, look, it’s the zombies. And we all looked over and not in the school field, but two fields over there were three figures and they looked like what you would imagine grim reapers to look like. And they all had. Um, long cowed, black hoods and gowns that went right down to the floor and they all had staffs and they were herding the cattle up the hill.

Very slowly. The cattle were not scared. They were just being herded very calmly up the hill by these three figures. And we could all see them. There were about 20 of us and we were all shouting and pointing and going there’s zombies there, zombies. And of course, one of the teachers came over and said, what on earth are you doing?

And we said, look, Mac look, Mac it’s the zombies. And I was pointing at these creatures and saying, can I go over, can I go over to the field? I wanted to get out of the yard and run over the field to get a closer look. And of course she said, no, of course you can’t go over. You’re not allowed to. And as she was looking, she said, What are you looking at?

And I said, look, they’re the zombies. And she couldn’t see them. That was the really weird thing was that there were about 20 of us when we could all see them. We were all hysterical by this point with excitement and no adults could see them now that really freaked them out, as you can imagine. And I remember it was a really big deal because, um, the break time was cut short.

The bell rang and everybody was ushered back into their classrooms. Now I was in a temporary classroom, which looked out sideways towards the, um, fields where these creatures were. But as we were taken back to our classroom, I couldn’t see them anymore. Um, and I was really sad about it. And so that was the experience.

But on top of that, um, fast forward then. 20 years later and behind the school, there was this sort of farm store. It was called farm freeze. And we had a friend who lived there with her parents and he used to sell sort of frozen food. Um, and he was a real entrepreneur and he’d decided to build a sort of cabin apartment for his teenage children, um, and his grown up children so that they didn’t have to go and fend for themselves.

So they had these kind of really cool cabin apartments, and they looked out over the field where I’d seen these zombies all those years before. Um, so my friend, my other friend, and I went to visit this girl. And we went into her apartment and we were having a cup of tea as we do because we’re English.

Um, and we were actually looking through her bookcase and I’d picked out, I remember, um, Mabu nightmares and we’d got onto the subject of ghosts. And she was telling us that she actually saw ghost. She was quite sensitive. And so as I looked out of her kitchen window over this field, it popped into my head about these zombies from all the years before.

And so I told her the story, um, and as I was telling her what they looked like, she just stopped and looked at me and went, oh yeah, I see them all the time. And it corroborated my story from when I was a little kid. And it was just one of those moments where you go cooled from head to toe. And this person’s basically telling me that what I saw was real and.

She sees them all the time and that started everything for me. Um, and I’ve just been kind of really, really interested ever since up until I did the podcast. So I think like many people in the middle of lockdown, um, we were all tearing our hair out and I thought, what can I do? What can I do to do with the paranormal?

That’s gonna keep me occupied and maybe work towards a future career to do with the paranormal. So I decided to do a podcast and it was just on ghosts to start with, but the more I read into, or the phenomena, the more I’ve interviewed people, then the more my interests have sort of grown. So that’s it really?

[00:10:27] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely. Um, I know with my podcast, I was like looking into stuff and. One thing, I looked into led into a different thing and then another thing, and it was kind of like a ripple effect and nothing seems to be just one, one lane, so to speak. Uh, it seems like a lot of things are connected, so I can definitely understand yeah.

Uh, where you’re coming from with that.

[00:10:58] Michaela: Yeah. I definitely, before I started the podcast, I’d, I’d always watch paranormal programs on TV, but I, I was never, I always thought that things like Bigfoot were just a story and, um, and UFOs scared me the idea of it scared me. So I, I hadn’t really looked into that before.

Um, and I didn’t even know about the idea really of crypted and things like that. as you said, the more I’ve started reading and researching, the more open-minded I’ve become. And the more things seem to start making sense. And as you say, it are connected to each other, it’s quite mind boggling. Really?

[00:11:50] Jeremiah: Yeah. So when you, um, started getting into it, what was one of the like main, I guess ghost stories or, uh, ghost events that kind of like was your favorite ?

[00:12:07] Michaela: Well, um, the F they came from a book and a book since I’ve I’ve since Reed it, and it was a book I had when I was a kid and it was a book by a publishing group called Armada, and they used to do horror stories.

they used to have like the first book of Omar to horror stories and the second and go on and on. But then they had this one called true ghosts and, um, and it had true ghost stories in it. And in there was the, uh, there was the case of the bell witch. Um, and there was the case of barley rectory in England.

And that really caught my imagination at the time. Um, and then since then I’ve gone on to be fascinated by, I, I suppose my bag as it were, if I was to pin it down to one really small area that I’m fascinated by it’s haunted houses, um, places like east drive, um, I Pontiac and the bat sea Polter guys, I’m fascinated by Polter guys.

So those sorts of stories with the things that I really kind. laptop up and read about,

[00:13:29] Jeremiah: yeah, I I’ve said it before on my show and interviewing other ghost hunters and stuff like that. Uh, I, myself am a scared cat, so I don’t think I could, uh, go deal with that stuff. I know friends that want to go to like the hall, new penitentiary and stuff that’s nearby.

And it’s just not for me. Like, I don’t know if I could, if I could handle that, but I do like hearing about the different stories and tales and I do like, uh, looking into it and trying to figure out like, what is going on? Like, why, why is this happening? What are ghosts and what are they trying to do? Um, from your research so far, have you come to any type of conclusion?

Like what ghosts are, are they kind of just like trap spirits or are they like. Um, people that can come and go from the afterlife or what’s your take on it?

[00:14:30] Michaela: That’s I I’m a bit, um, I’m a bit naughty in a way because I, um, oh, I like to think of it as completely open minded. So I often, I don’t like to pin myself down to a particular theory because, um, I’m, I’m always open to new ideas and new things, but I suppose if I had to be sort of, if I had to give my favorite theory, it would be that, um, that there are obviously, I think there are residual hauntings, which are, um, I’m sure you’ve heard of stone tip theory where.

The building can basically record very strong emotions from the past and almost play it back like a videotape. I think that’s completely plausible. I also believe that there are that, that yes, dead people come back and communicate with the living. And I think that maybe there are, um, other dimensions and there is, and that they can come back to the one right next to us and come through at will.

But I also believe that there there’s something that controls them, um, that doesn’t allow them to tell us, um, what we want to know the meaning of life, what happens when you’re dead and all that sort of thing. I think, um, also I believe that, um, The PGA type energies are, um, are, are just energies, um, that do things and move things.

So I think, I think, I believe there are several different things, but I think I do believe I’m really putting my neck on the line here for somebody to shoot me down. But, um, I do , I do believe that there are spirits that come back from the dead and communicate with the living. And I believe that some people, some mediums, some psychics can communicate with them, but I also believe that there’s a, a lot of gray area and let’s say not so honest people who say that they can communicate with them, but can’t.

[00:17:07] Jeremiah: yeah, we I’ve talked about that with people before. It’s like, you gotta really be careful. Um, cuz there are unfortunately people who take advantage of the whole genre. Yeah. And like say they can do things, but they really can’t. It’s just for a way for them to get attention or make money or whatever. Um, but yeah, that, I totally believe that there’s something going on.

I believe that places are actually haunted and I believe that there really are ghosts. And it’s funny, you said the different dimensions cuz I totally believe in, we live in like a multidimensional, uh, reality, I guess for lack of a better term. Yeah. And um, I say that about the aliens too is like. Um, I believe that most aliens are, if not all are interdimensional, not extraterrestrial.

So that’s just my personal, um, belief. It just to me adds up in what, um, happens with the abductions and stuff like that. And I know you get into that kind of stuff too, so

[00:18:26] Michaela: yeah. I’m, um, I’m so fascinated and utterly confused about the idea of aliens. I almost don’t know what I think, because there’s so much information out there I’ve read.

I’ve got lots of books, um, on UFOs and aliens, unfortunately, because I’ve been so busy, I’ve probably read less than I’ve got. Um, so , they’re all on my to-do list. Um, but I, I just find it so fascinating and I’m. really fascinated by, um, particularly, and I can’t believe I did three podcasts on, um, John Edmonds.

I’ve completely forgotten the name of his house now. um, so the skin Walker ranch, there’s one called the Bradshaw man. Sure. Mansion. And then there’s John Edmond’s one, um, all, uh, over towards Utah in a big line. And they had so many different alien experiences there. Um, and I remember John Edmond saying that he said they were interdimensional, but could also, um, that they were basically coming from within rather than without if you know what I mean.

So rather than hopping from one planet to, to another, all the time, they were actually constantly here. um, and just moving between dimensions and actually living underground and in mountains, I just find it also mind boggling. What’s your take on it?

[00:20:07] Jeremiah: Yeah, I’ve heard of, um, that theory and also, um, some people say about the hollow earth and that there’s actually like civilizations deep underground that we can’t get to, or haven’t got to.

And so there’s definitely different theories out there. And I’ve heard of a lot of UFO encounters where the UFO is coming in or going out of like a lake or a, um, you know, whatever river or some type of water. So maybe there’s something deep in the deep assertions that we can’t get to. I, I like you, I don’t like to pin down to like one thing, but I lean towards.

that they can they’re from another dimension and they found a way to cross over into ours. And I think that we can probably do the same, um, if we like know how to, and also another thing that really interests me, uh, lately is people who do like hallucinogenic drugs. And you have like, um, people taking mushrooms or IO Wasco, or anything like that.

And a lot of ’em say that they have encounters with what you would consider an alien, like a gray. And it just adds to my belief that they’re in another dimension and by taking these, you know, hallucinogens or whatever, you can kind of like peer and peek into that. Other world that they come from. But I think that when I say that a lot of people might think like, oh, they’re like ERI or whatever, but like, I think they can actually manifest in our plane of existence.

That’s why you see like the aliens UFOs and, um, like the Roswell crash and stuff like that. But I think ultimately they’re from another, you know, dimension, um, and they’ve just found a way to, to travel back and forth, but that’s just my take on it.

[00:22:25] Michaela: yeah. Do you, I do that, um, that they are from also from other places in the universe.

I just don’t believe that they constantly go backwards and forwards through space. If you know what I mean? Like everyone’s always going well, well, how could they possibly blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, travel. It takes 5 million years to get. I don’t know, Zeta Reticuli to here, but I, I just think that people are quite small minded, you know, this theory of being able to fold time and, and whi through could definitely be, um, true.

So maybe they did come from far away, but they’ve found a way to, to sort of live into dimensionally as well. I don’t know. I don’t actually think I’m clever enough to, uh, understand how well this works, to be honest

[00:23:21] Jeremiah: now I’m not closed off to the idea that. they are from outer space, but they have found that’s how they found out how to travel space.

So maybe they use dimensional portals to get here instead of just flying across space in a spaceship. I’m not close off to that idea. Um, because you know, no one really knows for sure. And I don’t want to say like, oh yeah, I know a hundred percent. Yeah. So it’s definitely possible that they’re from Zada Reticuli and just use wormhole and travel like that.

So it’s definitely possible.

[00:24:02] Michaela: Yeah. What’s your, uh, sorry. We keep turning this around now. It’s like I’m interviewing you. That’s okay. um, what do you think about things like Bigfoot in connection to that, that sort of idea?

[00:24:17] Jeremiah: Yeah. That’s another one. That’s interesting. And I interviewed a guy who, um, And is really into Bigfoot and like documenting.

And he goes out in the forest and stuff and does research. And I think that the Bigfoot has a interdimensional type, um, thing going on as well. And I think that might be part of the reason why we have not found one. Yeah. Or like that we know of. Um, I don’t put anything past the government cuz I think the government has like aliens and probably a big foot or something going down in some underground base.

But um, yeah, there definitely seems to be some connection between Bigfoot and aliens and um, and the fact of that they’re so elusive and yeah, I definitely don’t roll out the possibility that Bigfoot is, um, you know, Part interdimensional or knows how to use it. Cause I there’s a lot of stuff around us that we can use.

We just don’t use it. And like, I don’t know if you’ve heard of the like, um, what is it called? The world grid theory or whatever that there’s energy flowing all over the planet and you just have to tap into it. And um, like Tesla was trying to say, we can get free power, but the powers that be didn’t want that to go out, cuz they can make money off of charging us for power and all that stuff.

[00:25:56] Michaela: yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised at all. I think a lot of it comes down to money and I think a lot of it comes, probably comes down to, um, very, very large companies, not wanting, um, things like this to get out. It means that they would, you know, there was, um, oh my goodness. I wish my memory was better. I was reading something a few weeks ago about a particular, um, element it’s called maybe element 15 or something like that.

Um, um, uh, that could basically power the whole world instead of fossil fuels. Um, and it was something that the U O vehicles used to power themselves. Um, and that, uh, the big companies didn’t want anyone to know about it because if it got out, then of course, all the oil companies and the gas companies would lose billions and billions of dollars in revenue.

So I think probably everything does come down to money in the end.

[00:27:13] Jeremiah: Yeah. I heard someone say that. the reason why you’re hearing a lot lately about, um, Elon Musk and forget the other guy, maybe Bezos or something about going to Mars and stuff is that there’s some type of like crystal, um, or something on Mars that has like it’s could be turned into a fuel source and is like a, a overabundance of it on Mars.

And that they’re really going there that Elon Musk really wants to go there. So he can mine this, um, you know, fuel source or potential fuel source. So I’ve definitely heard

[00:27:56] Michaela: that yeah, I just, you know, things like that, just, I don’t understand it. Maybe it’s because I’m not rich and powerful, but I’m kind of, of the opinion that, you know, once you’ve got billions of dollars, why do you need any more money?

Why does he need to do that? He also, you know, he kind of, one of the most powerful men in the world. Why is there just like this need for greed to be the person in charge of the whole world? I don’t know. I don’t get it.

[00:28:26] Jeremiah: yeah, I don’t get it either. Um, I actually just read an article this morning. It was a soccer player or football player, depending what part of the world you are?

Um, he is from Senegal Africa, and they interviewed him, um, because he was getting made fun of cuz he didn’t have like fancy clothes or a car or he wasn’t living like, you know, your normal like superstar or whatever. Yeah. And I guess his response was why do I need all that stuff? He’s like, I’d rather build, uh, schools and hospitals in my home country and feed the poor people in my country and stuff like that.

And. You know, um, yeah, you need more people like him and not like, uh, Bezos or whoever .

[00:29:19] Michaela: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I just don’t understand this need for total power, but, um, yeah, maybe I would change if I suddenly wouldn’t, I don’t know, 10 million pounds or something. I hope not.

[00:29:34] Jeremiah: yeah, I don’t, I don’t know what it comes for.

I think with Musk. Um, I think cuz he has like, I don’t know if he has like autism or Asperger’s, there’s something definitely going on there, but um, he, I think he just likes to, you know, figure things out and, and try to invent things. And I think his brain’s just working and overdrive and yeah. Um, , you know, he, you know, some people say he’s not, not a real person.

He’s just an Android. I don’t know. But , but he is very awkward if you listen to him talk and stuff like that. It’s yeah. But I think it’s cuz his brain’s just firing on a different level. Yeah.

[00:30:21] Michaela: Yeah. I’m sure it is. Um, maybe it’s yeah. More about solving things, solving the problems and seeing if we can do things maybe.


[00:30:32] Jeremiah: yeah, cuz it’s funny. It’s funny. How like, um, when he bought Twitter, there was like huge meltdown from our left wing, uh, media and politicians and whatever. Um, and it’s just funny because he. Is legitimately what they’re pushing for. Like he created a fully electric car and he’s pushing towards, you know, using extra power or like alternative power.

And he’s doing the like Neurolink implants and stuff to try to help people with like hearing disabilities and other ailments and stuff. So it’s just, it’s funny to me, not funny and like, I’m laughing, but like, it’s just weird that, you know, the thing that they say there are for they’re like against him, but he’s like what they’re for?

Like, it’s

[00:31:27] Michaela: just weird. Yeah. Well, politics is just messed up anyway, isn’t it?

[00:31:31] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely. But anyway, the, um, getting back on track a little bit.

[00:31:38] Michaela: sorry. Tangent

[00:31:40] Jeremiah: no, no, it’s alright. Uh, it happens. Um, so for the ghost stuff, um, since we were talking about that, do you look into, or do you believe in like possession and people getting possessed and the whole, like, um, what is that movie exorcism or Exorcist?


[00:32:04] Michaela: yes, I do actually. And do you know what, um, it’s quite interesting that you said that because I’ve literally without, um, you know, I am, I am not being paid to advertise this program. I’ve literally just been watching it. So, um, I, I finally, um, bought the discovery plus app. Um, and of course now it’s not working, so I can’t even tell you what the program is called.

Um, this, um, I think it’s called the haunted house of terror or something like that with, um, oh, come on phone at that moment in time where you’re just looking on your phone to tell you what the thing’s called. Right. I shall talk about my theory first and then see if my phone works. Um, yes, I do. I do believe in that.

And it’s something I feel quite sort of superstitious about because there is this fear and I think this is why, um, this sort of thing is so scary to people, but there’s, there’s a fear. I think, I mean, I haven’t read a lot of the Bible, although I actually do believe in a higher power. I’m not a church goer, but I definitely believe that there’s someone that I call God looking out for me.

It might not be the same as everybody else’s, but I do believe in that. Um, but I, I believe that I think that somewhere in the Bible, it says that the more you dwell on things like demons. The more, they kind of know that you are thinking about them. And the idea is that you shouldn’t think about them because if you do think about them, then they might try to connect you.

So that it’s very clever in that way that it, it sort of tries to get people to be good by not thinking about something that they say is bad for them. Um, and I don’t subscribe really to organized religions, uh, sorry to anybody who does, but, um, I, I, I’m just an ultimate rebel, really. I don’t like being told what to do.

I like to believe in my own thing. Um, so I do, but I do get ne I think it has got to me because I get nervous when talking about things like demons, because I think on some level I do believe in them. And I do believe definitely that there are negative energies that can affect people. I really do believe in that.

And I know that there was a case not long ago, maybe a couple of years ago, where there was, um, a boy that was possessed in America and he ended up walking backwards up a wall in a hospital. Did you hear about that case?

[00:34:57] Jeremiah: I think so. I, I didn’t really look into it, but I think I did hear something

[00:35:01] Michaela: about that.

Yeah. And the, the thought of that just absolutely terrifies me. You know, I’d be quite happy to walk out into a field where a UFO is landed and go up and shake their hands and go, please don’t take me away, uh, and hope for the best, but the thought of demons just absolutely terrifies me. Um, so this, um, where is it now?

Do you know, what’s really annoying about going on your phone, that when you’ve watched something, it kind of disappears off your phone. And then you can’t find what it was called.

[00:35:40] Jeremiah: well, discovery plus has the exorcism of Roland DOE and there’s a show called deadly possessions.

[00:35:49] Michaela: Yes, there is. Yeah, I think it was called I’m sure it was called haunted house of terror and it was with Sapphire San and a guy hold on, hold on to Taso Terra.

Anyway, they went to, um, a place called Anaconda, which, oh God, I can’t remember. It is in Montana. Um, and it was this ranch where this lady they thought was possessed by a demon and they did, um, a whole kind of five or six episodes on this. And I literally just watched the last one last night and it was.

Amazing. And it really actually reinforced my idea that that yes, people can be taken over by demons, but I’ve got this bizarre sort of fear of admitting that the devil exists. It’s like, I’m in my brain. I can go. Yeah. There are really negative entities that can possess people. But taking that extra step to the idea of something like the devil, I dunno if it’s just cause I’m really scared of it or if it’s just that my brain can’t go that far.

What do you think?

[00:37:13] Jeremiah: um, yeah, I believe that there is, I don’t know if it’s just one figure like the devil, but I believe there is like a dark realm and I believe that, um, there is evil and I think, um, , you know, the more I look into the whole alien abduction phenomenon, the more, I don’t know, I’m not gonna say a hundred percent, but there’s a possibility that there’s a dark, uh, energy behind the whole phenomenon and what they’re trying to do.

And then, um, as far as like ghosts and stuff, I think demons are a separate thing from ghosts. I, yeah. Assume you think the same. Yeah. Um, and I think you can definitely invite these demons things into your body or your life or whatever, if you’re like dwelling on it, like you said, and there’s other things too, like oui boards.

Um, I don’t know if you looked into those

[00:38:23] Michaela: yet. Oh, yes. Yeah. I played with them when, uh, when I. School. And, um, even now when I go on go investigations, sometimes people bring them out and I don’t like to have anything to do with them. Um, in fact, , um, I started this trend. Um, we used to, um, at secondary school, we had an art club and you could go to art club at lunchtime if you didn’t wanna go outside.

So we’d do, we’d go to the art club and the, in the art club, it had a, a kind of a closet like of a store room. Um, and I being the one that read about ghost and things, all the time said, oh, I know how to make a oui board. So we made one out of paper and we used to sit in there every lunchtime with an upside down glass doing this Ji board.

Um, and then one day I was off sick and the other kids did it and they got caught and they were threatened with being expelled from school, uh, which I felt really guilty about. But, um, when I was at college years later, my friends and I became quite obsessed after we’d been out to the student bar and, um, you know, imbibed things that we shouldn’t have inspired, probably we all thought it was a great idea to, um, to make a Ouija board.

And we literally did it for a few months and we became quite obsessed and we became obsessed to the point of, we would have a secretary, um, who would sit and write notes on what the board said, because it came through so strongly, but then we started having things happen in our student house. So we stopped doing it.

Um, and ever since then, I’ve been very wary of doing it. Actually,

[00:40:16] Jeremiah: I do find it strange with the whole oui port thing is like the fact that most people. experience or have knowledge of Wei boards when they’re like young, like, uh, tween or teen. And, um, it’s just kind of strange in a way that like, when you’re in your, like, you know, tweens and teens, you’re very success, success.

I can’t say the word susceptible to like influence and stuff. Yeah. Um, I mean, you see it all the time with like people who are like, uh, really into a certain music artist or whatever, and they just dress and act and talk just like them. And, um, I just find it kind of strange how it seems like the Ouu board pops out around that age when you’re like susceptible to, to like being led certain way.

And maybe it’s on purpose. Maybe the. Demons or whatever are, are aware of that. And they use that since you’re young and impressionable and stuff like that, maybe they can use that as a way to like enter you or whatever

[00:41:38] Michaela: maybe, or maybe it’s that we are at the height of our psychic power at that age, because everything I always reminds me of the film carry, you know, where everything’s just sparking off the energy that you’ve got.

And everything’s just kind of this psycho, kinetic energy is just crazy around teenagers. So maybe it’s that we’ve got a lot more power at that age.

[00:42:07] Jeremiah: Yeah. Or like, um, you’re a, maybe you’re a lot more curious when you’re like in your teens, cuz as you get older, you start to like. Realize the consequences of your actions and you, yeah.

You kind of like tie down to the, the normal life and all quote unquote, normal life. Um, so yeah, it’s just, just something that pops in my head when I think about weed. Ju just like, I wonder if there’s a reason why, like, it always seems to be that people first experience ’em when they’re like in their teens.

[00:42:42] Michaela: yeah. And I think actually it’s probably to do with fear. I think when you are a teenager, you are so fearless compared to the rest of your life. I feel that the, you know, the older I got through my life, the more scared I was of things, the more I liked things to be quote unquote normal, and the, the less willing I was to take those sort of risks and put myself out there.

Whereas when you’re a teenager, Up for everything. It’s like, oh, you know, I’m gonna live forever. I can do anything. Adults only tell you not to do those things because they can’t do them anymore. That sort of thing. And maybe it’s just the LA the lack of fear.

[00:43:31] Jeremiah: Yeah. It’s definitely, uh, possible. And, uh, I’m kind of glad, I guess it’s a weird way to say it, but I’m kind of glad that there’s a lot of like paranormal researchers out there trying to get to the bottom of things and trying to like cleanse areas that have bad energy and stuff like that.

Like yeah. It seems like a lot more of that has been coming out recently. Yeah. Compared to like back in the day so,

[00:44:03] Michaela: yeah, definitely. And I think it’s, um, It’s nice to know that maybe there are things you can do about it and things that you can actually find out about now. Um, you know, all, all sorts of things, um, you know, incantations are using crystals or Sage or all those sorts of things.

People feel like maybe they’ve got more control. And even if the people who have been affected don’t know what to do, then maybe paranormal investigators have more of an idea. I’m not saying that they can, you know, fix things or solve people’s problems all the time, but maybe sometimes they can help, which is probably, uh, a good feeling to some people.

[00:44:52] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely. And I like doing the podcast and I’m sure you do too, where you can talk with people who might have more experience in a certain area than you, or yeah. Know a little bit more. And I end up learning a lot through talking with people and, um, you know, sometimes it changes my perspective. Um, and then sometimes it doesn’t, sometimes it solidifies my previous perspective and yeah, so it’s, it’s definitely fun.

So what other, um, things have you covered on your show that like really stick out to you that you like probably want to touch again in the future?

[00:45:35] Michaela: Um, well, I’d probably have to go back to ghosts again, and there are a lot of where quite lucky in the UK that, because we’re a small island, which has got a really long history, we’ve got a lot of ghosts to investigate.

Um, and a lot of people who claim to have seen them. So that’s because I’ve branched out quite a lot. The more. Excited. I got about learning about different things like crypted and, um, UFOs and big foot and all that sort of thing. I kind of got very excited about wanting to learn about everything. And, and then I sort of forgot about my initial interest, which is in haunted locations.

So I’d, I’d like to go back and speak to more people who have had, um, experiences of haunted locations. Um, I’d really like to speak to people, um, who claim to be sensitive or mediums and, and ask them about their experiences there. Um, I also there’s, um, in the UK, we, we don’t seem to have. what you, what you would call Bigfoot, but there are a lot of cases of, um, people seeing some sort of hoed type creature, um, on a smaller scale.

Um, so I would, I would really like to look into that more. Um, and also there, we have a lot of big cat sightings over here, which are fascinating. Um, and there have actually been a lot of actual big cats court, which you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t think from such a small island. Um, and, um, and so I’d really like we have, um, the beast of Bodman the beast of Dartmouth.

Um, we have quite a lot of big cat sightings up in Scotland. So I’d really like to look into sort of to come back home and look at some of our. Our crypted. Um, there’s, um, one that really fascinated me and I was so annoyed. We go on holiday to Cornwall nearly every year. Um, and we stayed near Falmouth in Cornwall, and there’s a place nearby, a very small place called Constantine, which is where we stayed last year.

And about five miles away from that is a, a little village called mourn Smith. And in mourn Smith, they have a legend of an owl man who is basically, um, not too dissimilar from the moth man, I guess who is a man who can fly with enormous wings, but has the head of an owl. Um, and he’s been cited there even last year.

And I was unaware of this when I was staying five miles away from it, which really annoyed me later. So I’d really like to look into some of our, um, indigenous crypted and, and ghosts again. Really?

[00:48:50] Jeremiah: Yeah. That would be definitely interesting. I know I’ve been hearing a lot of stuff lately about the dog man over here, and people trying to capture that.

And then of course, skin Walker ranch. I’d like to go there sometime and, uh, see what’s going on. Cuz they say it’s like one of the hotspots of the planet. So yeah,

[00:49:13] Michaela: I’ve been watching the program. I’ve only seen, um, the first two seasons because um, we get everything a lot later over here, which is really annoying.

And um, I keep seeing on Facebook posts, people talking about the third series and I really want to know what’s happening cuz it is such a fascinating place. It just blew my mind when I watch the first two series. .

[00:49:40] Jeremiah: Yeah, that’s definitely a place that I want to go. There’s another place. Um, I, I don’t know if I want to go there or not, but just because I’m easily scared or whatever, but there’s another place that seems to have a lot of weird stuff going on is, uh, Houdini’s mansion.

Oh, right. I believe it’s in California. Um, but I’ve heard a lot of stories about spirits being there and, uh, artists like music, artists stay there and, um, say that like a lot of weird stuff goes on, like people walking, but no one’s there or doors closing and just odd stuff. So yeah. Houdini’s mansion would be interesting to, to see.

[00:50:30] Michaela: Yeah. There’s so many places in America that I’d like to go to.

[00:50:36] Jeremiah: but then of course in the UK, you guys have all those castles and I’m sure there’s a lot of like haunted stuff in the castles too.

[00:50:46] Michaela: Yeah, there is. I mean, yeah. We have a lot of things that we can, we can go to and we have a lot of haunted forests as well.

Um, which I’d like to go to, uh, have a look around. I think one of my, um, I’d really like to go to of, of course I visited the tower of London, but I’d really love to be able to go around there at night. Cuz apparently there are loads of ghosts there. Oh

[00:51:12] Jeremiah: yeah. That it wouldn’t be for me cuz I would be scared, but it would be cool to see.

It’d be cool to see on like a TV show or something. Aw. But uh, yeah, definitely. Um, I like to cover this stuff and I like how, um, the paranormal world. Paranormal world. I wish I could talk today. the paranormal world seems to be, um, becoming more diverse where it’s like, I see a lot of paranormal podcasts and yours as well, um, where they don’t just cover ghosts.

They cover like aliens and abductions. Then they cover, you know, Bigfoot and all that other stuff. Um, where, so it’s for me personally, I like that the paranormal world is becoming a little more diverse. Um, whereas before it seemed like it was all just strictly ghosts or strictly, uh, you know, spirits or whatever.

[00:52:20] Michaela: Yeah. Well, I think it’s become more. Acceptable to talk about the idea of, you know, UFOs and aliens visiting. Whereas, um, you know, years ago, people were just seen as crap pots. If this, they talked about things like that. Whereas now I think people are sort of going well, at least considering, well, what, what if this was true?

What if, you know, people or creatures came from somewhere else? Um, and I think that’s really opened everything up.

[00:52:57] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, definitely. I think, I think there’s a, um, shift in consciousness coming or in the process, um, where you’re seeing a lot more people, um, becoming more open to stuff outside of. What’s uh, put right in front of them, like through mainstream news or TV or whatever people seem to be thinking more for themselves.

Um, and I think just my personal opinion that we’re just in this process of, uh, for lack of a better term Ascension and our consciousness is like expanding. And I think it happens from time to time for like a lot of people say cycles of time where like, you know, we went through the stone age and then the bronze age and iron age, and there’s all these like ages.

And it seems like, I think we’re on the beginning of like another age that is gonna come, whatever that age will be. I don’t know. But , that’s just my view.

[00:54:09] Michaela: Yeah. Somebody will think of a snappy name. .

[00:54:12] Jeremiah: yeah, it probably be like the technology age or something. Yeah, just really, but I definitely notice, especially cuz I get into conspiracies and stuff that they they’re becoming more widely spoken of than in the past where you kind of had to keep it to yourself or talk with people in a dark basement or something and um, or you’d be called like a tin foil hat person and yeah.

Um, and that still happens, but it seems like more and more people are like waking up and realizing like there might be more to something that’s put in front of you. Um, and a lot more people are asking questions. And so yeah, for me personally, uh, seems like a good time for like being into

[00:55:07] Michaela: this stuff.

Yeah. Do you know, do you ever, um, speak to people and then years later you think, oh, I wish I’d kept in touch with that person because they’d be really interested to talk to now when I was, uh, I’m a, a primary school teacher in my real life. And, um, years ago, when I did my teaching course, there was a guy on our course and he was called John and I cannot remember his surname and I’ve asked other people who were on my course, no one can remember his surname.

And at the time we thought he was quite nutty. And I dunno if he ever went on to be a teacher, but, um, he was really interested in the paranormal. And so one day I decided to go and have a, a cup of tea with him. And I sat in his flat with him and he told me all this stuff about, um, seeing UFOs in London, and he was telling me that, um, he’d seen them for years and years and that he, they were always Suren to him that they would UNC clerk and he could see them, but other people couldn’t and that he could see them all around London the whole time.

Um, and when he was talking to me, I was really interested to begin with. And then I actually started to think that he was slightly unhinged while he was talking to me. Um, and he gave me a couple of books, which I’ve still got to this day and the . And then of course, we went off and I became a teacher and, and life carried on.

And this was what about 18, 19 years ago now. And now that I’ve started my. Podcast. I would love to interview John again and ask him from, from my new perspective of where I am now and what I’m interested in. I would so love to get hold of this man, but I have no idea what his surname is. I know he was called John and he was on my teaching course at the urban learning foundation in London in about, I D know when it was 2004.

John, if you’re listening, get in touch with me. I want to, I really, really want to talk to you again, cuz now I’m starting to understand where you’re coming from.

[00:57:39] Jeremiah: yeah, I definitely understand that. And I also find it strange when, and I don’t know what there’s probably a term for this, but if you ever like, think of somebody and you haven’t talked to ’em in a while and you think about them and then they contact you or.

You know, shoot you a message. Yeah. And you’re like, how the heck did

[00:58:01] Michaela: you know synchronicities? Well, I really hope John gets in touch

[00:58:06] Jeremiah: yeah. Hopefully he’s listening or gets the synchronized code or whatever. . So if, um, I’ll let you, uh, uh, just had a Marine fart um, yeah, if you wanna tell my audience where they can find you and your show and all that stuff

[00:58:28] Michaela: and yeah.

Yeah, definitely. So, um, so it’s paranormal or what podcast available on all good podcast apps? Um, I should be on just about all of them. So if you just whichever app you use to listen to your podcast. Type in paranormal or what? My name is McKayla Ford. I also write for paranormal magazine, which is an online magazine by Magister.

Um, and we’re also, um, publishing paper copies now in the USA. It’s a paranormal magazine. Um, that’s really high quality and fantastic. You must buy it and read it. Um, and also you can email me your paranormal stories either from the UK or from the USA or anywhere in the world to paranormal or what podcast,

[00:59:28] Jeremiah: sounds good.

And I will make sure to link all that in the show description. Uh, so people can find it easily. And, uh, thank you for coming on and talking and, uh, going over. Your show and some of your experiences and, uh, even with the tangent, still a great conversation.

[00:59:48] Michaela: thank you. It’s been really fun, Jeremiah. I’ve really enjoyed it.


[00:59:53] Jeremiah: Yes. Thanks for coming on. And, uh, well,

[01:00:12] Michaela: we’ll see you next time.

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False Flags

False Flags

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False Flags

[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow. Terrestrials welcome back. Thank you for tuning in. We’re gonna have a great episode thought provoking episode ahead. So make sure you stick around, listen to the whole thing. This is a trigger warning and easily offended warning. If you fall into either of those categories, you might not like this episode, so you might wanna wait till next week’s or go back and listen to the older episodes.

But if you’re open minded, And you question everything like this shows motto, then stick around, cuz this is gonna be a really thought provoking episode before we get to it. Make sure you go to on there? You can contact me if you wanna be a guest on the show or if you wanna share a topic or if you just even want to just, just talk then, um, shoot me a message on there.

What if they’re wrong is also on Mia coffee. So you can go, um, buy me a coffee. I’ll have the link down below. If you want to donate to the show, show your love and support. Any donation will get a shout out on the next episode. So without further ado, we’ll talk with Mel. See what he thinks about false flags.

Oh, and one last thing, sorry for my audio quality, I was having technical issues during the recording. So I do sound kind of like a transformer, but, um, It should be listenable, at least. So, yeah, just bear in mind. I know. I sound like I’m talking through a vortex or something. All right. Let’s get to the interview.


Yeah, that’s fine. I just, uh, heard you guys on rumble. You had a video and you were talking about the, uh, like Texas shooting and the, uh, completely fake and the Buffalo shooting and all. I was like, I want to cover this on my podcast, cuz false place have been prevalent for a while

[00:02:30] Mel: now. And I remember back

[00:02:32] Jeremiah: Sandy hook and all that stuff, so

[00:02:37] Mel: okay.


[00:02:38] Jeremiah: and I like the way you guys were going and how it

[00:02:41] Mel: so right. But before we get into Uvalde, let me ask you a question who blew up? Uh, the, the building in Oklahoma. Um,

[00:02:53] Jeremiah: what was his name? Ted

[00:02:54] Mel: Kazinski or something? Timothy McVey or Timothy McVey. There you go. Uh, what about, I don’t know, let’s bring up another event.

Waco. Who is who’s responsible for that who actually put their initials on it wa

[00:03:09] Jeremiah: the, uh,

[00:03:10] Mel: what’s that? No, no, no, go on. No, I was

[00:03:15] Jeremiah: gonna say the government, probably the CIA, um, Was involved and then just blamed it on the crazy cult or whatever. Right.

[00:03:24] Mel: Um, Columbine, they ended up,

[00:03:26] Jeremiah: but they ended up burning down the building or whatever with the

[00:03:30] Mel: kids inside.

Right. But co uh, even Columbine, what was that? Just, just Columbine. Yeah. Go on

[00:03:38] Jeremiah: Columbine. Um, That one I’ve looked into, not as much, but, um, I know it was the two kids that went in there and shot everyone and said, was asking people if they believed it in God or Jesus or whatever. And if they said yes, they shot

[00:03:55] Mel: him and okay, well, well, let’s go to, uh, the movie theater in Aurora, Colorado.

Yeah. I was in Germany at the time and, uh, 2000 years. Right. Gotcha.

[00:04:10] Jeremiah: yeah, I was in Germany. I was backpacking through Germany and the family I was backpacking with, like was like, you need to go check the, uh,

[00:04:20] Mel: TV, something happened in America or whatever.

[00:04:23] Jeremiah: And then I saw about the, uh, theater shooting, which to me sent, seemed really strange.

And then when I got back, I started looking into it and I thought it was. Pretty strange too. And the character and I say character, but I mean, the shooter, um, seemed very odd too. And yeah, that one,

[00:04:46] Mel: um, odd, unfortunately I didn’t odd as in like MK ultra, but what if I were to tell you that every single one of those events and, and many, many more were all perpetrated by our government?

What if every single thing that has changed America? In one way or another, sorry, whether it be strict or gun laws or gun free zones, or it usually has to do with firearms. What if every single one of these things were perpetrated by our very own government? Uh,

[00:05:24] Jeremiah: I would not put it past them.

[00:05:25] Mel: Well, well you, into a lot of stuff, you don’t have to put it past them because they were.

they were and what really woke me up the other day. Uh, can, can I, can I share my screen here? Yeah, go ahead. No, no, no. I’m saying because you’re gonna put this on your show, right? Yeah. Audio on though, right? No, no, no. It’s audio people could, could, could listen to it too, because there’s a lot of things that I had no idea about, about Columbine.

Uh, the Columbine shooting. And when I heard it, I was absolutely fucking flabbergasted. I couldn’t believe it. I said, wait a minute. Do you mean to tell me it just came out? See now information travels a lot faster. The Buffalo sh Buffalo shooter was in touch with the FBI right before the shooting. Then we find out afterwards, That the first guy that got killed was the black guy.

Uh, uh, did you hear about this?

[00:06:32] Jeremiah: Um, I heard about the, um, the kid who did the shooting supposedly, um, was like military trained. Cuz I heard someone saying that he, uh, he executed that Buffalo shooting or whatever with like military precis. Even

[00:06:53] Mel: though he was over like 18. Yeah. Well, well, what if I told you it had absolutely nothing to do with, I mean, look, I, I, if you just gimme the floor for a second, I want explain a couple things to you.

These evil bastards, that rule us, they never let a, a, a tragedy go to waste ever. They never let a tragedy go to waste. Now I know that sounds kind of like a cliche, but hear me. The security guard for the supermarket of tops or whatever it was called. Did you know that this guy just invented, it’s been done before and they killed him off in the past, but did you know that he invented, uh, a way to power your car using water?

And he was just on the news about his invention? Yeah. And I


[00:07:49] Jeremiah: see that I saw, um, I forget his name, but he, because I took some notes. Uh, but yeah, it was a security officer mm-hmm and, um,

[00:08:01] Mel: he got

[00:08:01] Jeremiah: killed and yeah, he was working on a, uh,

[00:08:05] Mel: car that ran off water. Okay. So why would they have to kill him? Why would, why would the, the elites, the same elites that have been controlling us since way before you and I were ever born all of a sudden, some sch.

Is gonna come out. What was the last guy’s name? The last one that invented the, the water engine and they in the CIA poisoned him, uh, Stanley Myers Myers. There you go. Last name. I was looking for Myers. They killed Myers. Now think about it like this. You have a guy that was just on the news. He actually made the news.

This wasn’t back then, you know, like when Myers was alive, this is now meaning people see it on their phones. People are waking up. People are like, wait a minute. I could run my car on water. That is an immediate hit squad. That’s that’s not even FBI shit. That’s CIA shit. You gotta get rid of him. The guy’s already famous.

He was already on the local news, but how could we capitalize off of everything all at once? We could get rid of him this way. We could continue to Jack up the prices of the gas and fuck the American people. We get rid of him. That’s the first priority, but also we could spread more racial division between black people and white.

We could create a story saying that he hated black people and, and you understand what I mean? And also we could use it to say, Hey man, you know what? There are too many damn guns. I, I, I think we should take people’s guns. These motherfuckers will take down an entire airplane just to kill one person. If they see several, several different positives to their evil diabolical schemes, they will take that avenue.

Not only did you get rid of the guy that was, you know, trying to teach people how to make, uh, a cars run on water. Oh no, that was priority. Number one, you get rid of him, but you could also divide the people further, which is what they always want to do. divide us. I, I tell people this shit on my live streams all the time.

Just think about the scene from planet of the apes, right? Uh, the first one, the, the remake, the not, not the, uh, originals, the remake, the first one, I think it was rise of the planet of the apes. Caesar held a twig together and Caesar said apes alone, P and he just snapped it in half. Meaning apes alone are weak.

Then he put a bunch of tweaks together and he tried to break it and he said, apes together. Strong, the last thing they ever want us to do. The last thing is be United as one, because if we were, and we all looked at what they’ve been doing to us for the last hundred years and the way they, uh, the ways that they divide us, let me tell you something, man, that would be the end of them.

Rockefeller himself said it. Go on. Yeah.

[00:11:07] Jeremiah: Um, they definitely do. And they even like nine 11, the like king of conspiracies, it just shows you the air, like if it was inside job, which I think it was, then they killed thousands of people to

[00:11:22] Mel: achieve an agenda. Well, what did they get from nine 11?

[00:11:25] Jeremiah: They got more power

[00:11:27] Mel: cuz they’d had the Patriot.

Ah, there you go. There you go. There you go. That was the intention. One, one of them, one of. What that I’m sorry. Right, right, right. Uh, no, no, no. I, I think it had a lot to do with the, the heroin and the oil in the middle east. It had a lot to do with that too, but more importantly control over us. You, uh, Edward Snowden came out and I, I watched a movie Snowden, but Edward Snowden said something that was very interesting.

We have all of these three letter organizations, agencies, whatever you want to call them. Right? Why is it that they are targeting? And this is how you know that the devil is real for all of these. CIA is never supposed to operate in America, NSA. I mean, that’s for like cyber and, uh, cyber espionage and shit like that.

But everyone was looking at. You understand what I mean? So, okay. So if you have the CIA, a majority of what the CIA was paying attention to was us. Isn’t that like for, I don’t know, China, maybe, maybe Russia, maybe somebody that would want to come in here and hurt the American people. Don’t you think that that’s who that should be geared more towards, but know a vast majority of their security was focused on us, on us.

what does that tell you that, uh,

[00:13:02] Jeremiah: we’re just pawns in the

[00:13:03] Mel: game. no, no, no. Uh, yeah, that’s true too. We are every single one of us. We are, we are all pawns in the game, but I’ll tell you, I, I I’ll tell you it another way and I, I don’t know your, your religious beliefs. I’m not very, uh, very religious, but I am a devout Christian.

I am, but it means that even though America. being America in the Bible, it was called something else. It was called Babylon and the devil has been trying his hardest to corrupt us, which he’s done a very good job, a very good job corrupting us. You understand what I mean? For sure. And, and, and making just, just all the most heinous things you have men running around saying they are.

All of the most diabolical things that you could possibly think of. It’s all directed towards us Americans. You understand what I mean? Like I said, in the Bible, we were called something different, but that’s why all of these missiles, so to speak or pointed at us, it was never about surveilling fucking Iran.

They don’t care about Iran. Iran can’t do anything to. It was about surveilling us. And that was the devil’s plan to hold time. Even this fucking phone that’s sitting here right now, I call it a phone. This is nothing but a tracking device and a monitor. It listens to every single thing that I say on a daily basis and stores it and archives it.

But they made us dependent on these things. If I took your phone right now, what would you. What the fuck .

[00:14:39] Jeremiah: Yeah, I would, I would feel weird

[00:14:41] Mel: at first for sure. Oh yeah. Uh, that, that’s why when I, when I go out to play with my kids, I leave my phone inside, man. Like when we go out bike riding or water, gun fights in the yard and stuff like that, I leave my phone inside, cuz I don’t wanna be fucking bothered.

I don’t wanna be bothered. Yeah. You get addicted to it and I’m guilty of it too. Like, no, they had, I always look

[00:15:01] Jeremiah: at the screen to see

[00:15:03] Mel: if something new notification pops up. Right, right, right. But it was done deliberately. They addicted us to technology on purpose to the point where we feel like you track everything we see

[00:15:15] Jeremiah: or do and talk about.


[00:15:17] Mel: Exactly. I’m telling you, man. But as far as false flags, There there is, you know, I, I believe that American citizens are decent people. I do believe that. And I believe that that’s why America slash Babylon is in the Bible. It’s, uh, the land of the free, but our government are some of the most satanic diabolical, evil, crooked, twisted motherfuckers you’d ever seen in your life.

My wife is from Guatemala. She remembers our government Amer the American government going down to Guatemala, but kind of like bill gates and experimenting on people, testing different drugs on people. Then we did it in Africa for a couple decades. We just go to some poor village and just tested on them.

And then the COVID vaccine came out and they said, fuck it. Let’s just test it on the Americans. They lost four years with Trump. Remember Trump was never supposed to win, but God intervened. And he won. They lost four years, four years. So that’s why you see everything right now is as I always say, pedal to the metal, destroy us by any means, they create these fake ass shootings.

They tug on people’s heart strings. Oh my God. The poor kids. Did you see any videos of kids or, or, or body bags being carried out at a school? No, you. No.

[00:16:44] Jeremiah: And then they want us to believe that this 18 year old kid that worked like part-time at burger

[00:16:49] Mel: king, when what Wendy’s $5,000 worth of guns and that body armor and everything else.

Oh, don’t forget the body armor. No, but, but listen, listen to this, he had $5,000 worth of guns. He had an expensive car, body armor, but he was also a transgender. What.

[00:17:10] Jeremiah: yeah. When I saw that, I was like, wait a minute.

[00:17:14] Mel: they can’t keep up with their lies. They can’t keep up with their lies. Sandy hook was bullshit, and that’s why I’d never forgive Alex Jones for that shit.

Because Alex Jones actually went back on what he said, cuz he was right at first or should I say, I can’t say he was right. I would say he was telling the truth, but apparently he got so much backlash from it that he backed up off the story. No, no, no, no, no. I, I, I didn’t say that. Okay. Yeah. Sandy hook really did happen.

No, the fuck it didn’t no,

[00:17:44] Jeremiah: I was watching a video from, um, I forget, I think his last name’s Hal big, but like Wolfgang, Hal big. I think his, his name is mm-hmm and. Yeah. He really breaks down the whole Sandy hook thing that like nothing adds up. Nothing makes sense. And he’s like a decorated officer and everything, and he’s like all the phone calls that came into nine one, one were like way late and all the different procedures that they did were not correct.


[00:18:12] Mel: oh shit. Uh, Jeremiah. Right? I could call you that. Yes. Yes. I just put up a video a second. You wanna see false flags? Hang on. Let me find the video first. You wanna see false flags? I’ll show you a fucking false flag right now. Where is it? Man? Bear pig sent it to me. I’ll show you a false flag right now.

Hang on, hang on. Let me just let the stupid ass ad play. One of my subscribers sent this to me, right? Say switch. Now I want you to listen to this and I want you to tell me in your mind, if you actually believe this. Okay. You wanna talk about false flags, Jeremiah, we’ll talk about false flags.

[00:19:06] Jeremiah: yeah, it’s just all the video of the friend of the yal shooter. And there was some weird stuff

[00:19:12] Mel: with that too. okay. Wait, hang on, hang on, hang on. This is, this is how you know that it’s all bullshit. This is how you know that it’s all bullshit. Right. You know how they’re pushing the whole white supremacy thing, right?

Like, so in other words, since I’m black, I should hate you and think you’re white supremacist just because you’re white, right? Yeah. There was a pride parade, obviously. It’s pride month, unfortunately in the same month that it’s my birthday. I want you to listen to this report. It’s only like, yeah, it’s, uh, two minutes long.

Listen to this and tell me if you fucking believe it afternoon, just a few blocks from that pride parade, a parade that drew hundreds of people to downtown cour d’Alene law enforcement says they’ve been tracking this group and suspects that all the individuals detained showed ties to a white nationalist organiz.

Yeah, por d’Alene police Pring the actions of a quick thinking 9 1, 1 call. I don’t think this would’ve been as successful. Had we not had one extremely astute citizen who saw something that was very concerning to them and reported it to us Saturday afternoon, that person reporting a quote, little army loading it the back of a U.

10 minutes later, police make a traffic stop. This video shows the moment that truck door slides open 31. People arrested all with suspected time. Okay, let’s stop it right there for a second. Do you believe that? No, I don’t. 31. People arrested every single one of ’em dress exactly the same. They still have their faces covered and they’re all a bunch of FBI agents.

That’s what you’re seeing right now. That’s what that is. Well, when

[00:20:52] Jeremiah: I first saw it, that’s the first thing I thought was those were all like order agents or something. Uh, but then it turns out that they’re, they’re supposed to be the ones arrested.

[00:21:03] Mel: Yeah, this dude, this is, this is, and thank God Trump gave us this cuz this is the, the dictionary definition of fake news.

It’s fake. You wanna talk about false flags? This is a false flag, a bunch of white guys in the back of a U-Haul were going to a gay pride parade to go. And I don’t know, disrupt the event. They didn’t say that they found any guns on them, but conveniently, this is at the same time that they’re telling America that all white people are evil and now they hate the gays too bad thing is some gay people.

Are gonna see this, it ain’t gonna say, oh my God, they’re after us too. At first we thought they only hated black people. They hate the gays too. Do you understand what I mean about false flags? Oh yeah, definitely bullshit. It’s bullshit.

[00:22:02] Jeremiah: Yeah. And what’d they say 30, some people arrested for this. And did you see the size of a U-Haul?

I don’t even think 30 people

[00:22:10] Mel: could fit. I, I, I think they could fit 30 something people in there, but, but here’s the. Have you ever been in the back of a U-Haul? I have like moving and shit like that. What were they hanging onto? The second? The person presses the gas, like you’re flying all over the fucking place.

but those guys were just standing like, Hey, nah, man. Hey, we’re totally fine. False flag, man.

[00:22:39] Jeremiah: Open the U-Haul in the clip there. The first thing I noticed when they opened the U-Haul was they had like the hats and they were all like brand spanking, new

[00:22:49] Mel: everything, brand new, every brand new never, never been used before.

Bullshit. Yeah. Total bullshit. You don’t definitely Jeremiah. You don’t understand how evil these fucking people are. they are evil. They will fake anything. As long as it, as they reach their goal, they will fake anything. They’ll make anything look like anything just to reach their goal. They’re fucking evil, dude.

We are run. We are run by a Satan. evil diabolical group of individuals. And honestly, I’m pretty sure a lot of them aren’t even humans. Did you see the CEO of Pfizer with his fucking pulsating? A, a neck I’ve never seen somebody’s neck. Do that shit. Why is your neck doing that? You know what I mean? Plus like,

[00:23:46] Jeremiah: I don’t know.

Some. like, I think Mark Berger is a Android or something. I,

[00:23:51] Mel: I, he’s not, he’s not real right. No, no. I think, I think what happened with him was they just used the body and you see that AI that they’re always talking about and, and how they were talking about how they could transfer consciousness from a person to another person.

what they could also do. This is the part they left out was that they could also take an artificial intelligence program and put it into a person’s fucking brain or a robot’s brain. I don’t think that’s a real person.

[00:24:25] Jeremiah: No, I don’t either. I mean, you just look at him and he’s,

[00:24:29] Mel: he doesn’t look like a person.

No, you don’t remember the video where he said when I was human, I mean, I am human. You don’t remember that. Come on. Yeah, I think I do. Yeah. Yeah. Joe Biden, come on, man. He really said that. How do you fuck up something like that? Yeah. You know, because when I was a human, I used to eat, uh, beef patties. I mean, since I am a human, I eat be no, you just said when I was human past tense, which means what the fuck are you now?

What are you now?

[00:24:59] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely. And then, um, Yeah, you have so many different shootings. Another one that sticks out to me is like, uh, the Las Vegas one

[00:25:10] Mel: total bullshit. A lot of, well, what, what, what, what the guy barricaded himself in the Mandalay bay, which so much ammo. Nobody saw him come in with it, but he sat out there just picking people off, killing people one by one.

No problem. Nobody was able to do anything. Everybody was it’s listen. there. There’s a couple of them. Uh, another one is the, the, the, the, the nightclub in, uh, the gay night club, Orlando in, in Orlando. That’s another one. The listen, you know, when you first hear a story and you kind of wanna believe it, you know, like you kind of wanna believe it.

First video I saw is on the news. They kept showing a video of two guys carrying another guy down the block, and then it. We, yeah, but what we didn’t know was that the video still had about 10 more seconds on it. And as soon as they got to the edge of the block, they put the guy down and just start having a conversation.

Hey, what’s up, man? So, uh, we going this weekend, cause apparently they, you were just in the shooting. This guy was hurt. You’ just put him down on the floor. He’s standing up just fine. So what the fuck are you carrying him for? oh, these fucking people.

[00:26:27] Jeremiah: But the thing is they know, they know that most people won’t look into it

[00:26:32] Mel: like we do.

Yes. So yes, that’s what they bank on.

[00:26:37] Jeremiah: So they can just like, and I feel like they’re getting sloppy as they go along too

[00:26:42] Mel: panic, panic. That’s what it is.

[00:26:47] Jeremiah: Cause I really think like their rain so to speak is, is about to.

[00:26:53] Mel: And they know that and they’re like, scrambling it. It’s not, they it’s Satan dude, Satan knows that his time is running out.

People are waking up, you know, I damn dude, I don’t even know how much time you have, but let me tell you something. Jeremiah did something. I went over on, um, on my show the other night, man. Uh, it was a dude you ever heard of? Um, wait, wait, let’s get into that. Uh, uh, uh, in one second, um, this is something that one of my subs sent me.

I’m gonna read something to you. Okay. This is Craigslist, south Florida. Okay. You ready for this? Yeah. Craigslist crisis actors needed west Palm beach. We are a government contractor with 15 years of experience working with county, state, and federal agencies to ensure that safety of civilians by conducting simulated crisis event.

crisis scenarios may include, but are not limited to the situations involving natural disasters. And in quotations it says tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, et cetera. Okay. Terror scenarios, militias extremists, cetera. Think about all those George sorrows funded people, biological slash chemical war warfare attacks.

That’s an ad on Craigslist in south Florida.

[00:28:21] Jeremiah: Yeah, that’s crazy. And I’ve actually heard of other places looking for that too. And then the, um, Aldi shooting, I heard that, uh, shortly before it happened, they had like a school shooting drill and, um, and then lo that debacle, that happened well, planned debacle in my opinion, but

[00:28:45] Mel: right.

So you don’t, you have no idea about the military being involved too.

[00:28:50] Jeremiah: Well, I’m sure they do,

[00:28:52] Mel: but like I said, no, I’m saying you, you haven’t heard it. I have not heard it. Okay. Well, I’m glad you said

[00:29:02] Jeremiah: that. All know, is that the big, uh, big uproar about the cops just standing

[00:29:07] Mel: outside for 45? No, that, that was their order.

not that’s. That was their orders. They were given orders to just stay exactly where they were. Hang on. Let me just find it. Okay. Here we. Here we go. I found it. This is one part of the whole Aldi thing that you didn’t know about VDI story. That’s important, but often. Overlooked. And that’s the local air traffic before and during the school shooting in particular, us military air traffic at the UAL, the airport.

Here’s the story at 10:15 AM. Central time, a us army MC 12 recon plane left Fort hood. It approached K U V a the Uvalde airport at 11:02 AM. At the exact same time that the shooter killed his grandmother. The aircraft entered a pattern, which is the normal pattern that an aircraft takes to land and landed at 11:25 AM.

The gunman crashed his car in front of the school. Three minutes later, just over an hour passes. And the army aircraft takes off again at 12:48 PM. Two minutes later, the door to the classroom is breach. And the border patrol agent kills the shooter. The most important part of this story is for you to understand what an MC 12 w recon plane actually does.

It provides full motion, video and Satcom intelligence for military troops and leaders in the middle of a battle. Looking at historical records for 2022. This plane had not landed at the Uvalde airport until may 20. The day of the shooting. Now, the media loves to confuse you. The media loves to make you question reality.

And when you hear facts, things that would normally be really easy to understand. They love to just make you question yourself, but I wanna ask you this question. What is the likelihood that a us army military aircraft that specializes in intelligence data video shows up at the Uvalde airport after not landing.

All year long at the exact moment of the deadliest school shooting we’ve had in a very long time. I’ll take your thoughts. What do you think?

[00:31:37] Jeremiah: Uh, it’s pretty damning. . I mean, what are the chances, you know, I don’t think there’s

[00:31:44] Mel: many impossible, actual coincidence, impossible chances of fucking impossible that doesn’t happen.

[00:31:52] Jeremiah: Well, I heard someone say that, um, the cops outside were told to stand down for that 40 minutes or whatever, so they could set, set it all up and, um, you know, arrange it to where they could have the, have it seem like it was a normal, you know, school shooting or whatever.

[00:32:13] Mel: And, um, you mean to stage the whole event?

[00:32:16] Jeremiah: Yeah. And then there was like parents of the kids that were inside. That like, I guess we’re calling the cops or

[00:32:23] Mel: by, by parents, you mean by parents? You mean actors? Yes.

[00:32:28] Jeremiah: Actors. And, um, they were saying like, oh, we’re hearing there’s shots going off and stuff, but you heard zero in the background of shots going off, like yeah.

Not the

[00:32:39] Mel: whole time. Yeah. It’s something that you said that’s very, uh, it’s so true. You have no idea how true it. They’re getting sloppy. Nine 11 was buttoned up pretty nice until people started asking questions and then the whole thing started to unfold. Now they’re getting so sloppy. For example, another false flag event, whatever happened to the black guy in New York city that shot up all the people in the subway car.

What happened to. Yeah. You don’t hear nothing about it? No, no. You don’t hear shit about it anymore because apparently a black guy outta nowhere, just pull out a gun, starts shooting a bunch of people. Subway doors, open nobody’s running for their lives. There’s somebody waiting there. You didn’t see the 6 66 in that.

No, I didn’t. Ah, damnit. Huh? It it’d be, I don’t know how long it would take for me to find it now, but

[00:33:50] Jeremiah: I know like the, um, a lot of these school shootings and, uh, mass events and stuff, they, um, someone always finds like a free symbol. Yes. Like somewhere on the

[00:34:03] Mel: back of the windshield or on the, that was all over the Uvalde thing.

Yeah, yeah,

[00:34:07] Jeremiah: yeah, yeah. Or, um, on someone’s baseball. And, and we know all about

[00:34:13] Mel: the free bases, right? yeah. Well, listen, look, I’m gonna go back to what you said about them getting sloppy. They are getting sloppy and, and I, I, I think it’s panic. I think it’s panic. I think, I think, you know, they follow their orders directly from the devil.

If you didn’t know that. And, and I’m 100% convinced of that. And if you wanna know how I came to that conclusion, all you have to do is look at when Donald Trump was in office. He could say one thing that we all clearly know what he was saying or what he meant. And they went online. Thanks to Obama, by the way, to Smith Mon act.

They’ll just say exactly the opposite and call ’em a racist or call ’em this and call ’em that, whatever it’s all nonsense. which means, I don’t think put it like this. I don’t think somebody would take money except money to lie to people like that, unless they were not given very specific orders to do so.

And I don’t think that an a, another man could steer, could scare a man enough to make him do some shit like that. I don’t think that’s. I think that they take their orders directly from the devil himself, but that’s just me.

[00:35:45] Jeremiah: No, I don’t disagree. I I’ve done, you know, Satanism in the music industry. I’ve episode of it.

And I definitely know about the dark dealings that a lot of our politicians and movie stars and, uh, music artists, like, you know, pretty much make PS with

[00:36:06] Mel: the devil. uh, it’s a hundred percent true. Yeah.

[00:36:11] Jeremiah: And then I know all about the pedophilia that’s ramp been with,

[00:36:15] Mel: you know, that, that that’s their, that’s their drug man, people, uh, people like us.

I mean, I don’t smoke weed, but you know, regular people like us, we just think of what, eh, man, gotta go get some pot. No, their drug is baby blood. That’s their drug. And then when they’re done. If they don’t wanna eat the flash right down the spot, they just sell it back to McDonald’s or they sell it back to some other of food place.

You know, that they are finding human DNA in all types of food. Right? No, I did not do that. Are you? Fuck Jeremiah. Really? I,

[00:36:52] Jeremiah: I mean,

[00:36:53] Mel: I don’t

[00:36:55] Jeremiah: I deal more with like aliens,

[00:36:58] Mel: UFOs, Bigfoot. I used to, I used to be big into that, man. I used to be big into that until I realized, what, what did I realize? There’s no such thing as an alien from outer space.

There’s no such thing. They’re demons. They’re demons. They sold it to us at something else. Oh yeah. Well, this one comes from the, um, drama galaxy. This one comes from galaxy, but fuck, there’s no such thing. It’s all bullshit. They’re demons. And they’re here with us. You could thank Jack Parsons for that.

There’s still a portal open at area 51 right now. I don’t know why I didn’t do a video about that, cuz I can’t even find a video. But there’s still a portal open at area 51. You got them in se right now, as we are speaking in se yes, sir. Conjuring up all types of shit and bringing it into our world. We can’t leave here.

It’s not such thing as fucking aliens from outta space. They’re fucking demons, but that’s how I started too. I used to go up on my roof and, uh, and, and with my video camera, hoping I could catch a U. I caught one, but it wasn’t really a UFO. God knows what the fuck it was at this point.

[00:38:15] Jeremiah: Yeah. I definitely believe, especially at CERN, they’re opening portals to the dark brown

[00:38:24] Mel: is what I call they’re.

They’re letting them in here. Jeremiah. They’re letting them in here. I don’t know why Satan thinks he needs so much, uh, reinforcement, but apparently he feels like he. and, and he’s an idiot, I think also,

[00:38:39] Jeremiah: yeah, I think also like whole alien abduction thing and their hybrid program and all, I think it all ties together.

Like, um,

[00:38:49] Mel: well, well, there’s a, yeah, there’s a lot of people that have been taken and, and implanted with, uh, whether it’s demo or reptilian babies. I I’ve heard stories of women that wake up after being pregnant for six months and there’s no. Yeah. I heard that too. Yeah. They just wake up and the baby’s gone.

Yeah. Yeah. But the thing is it’s this whole time we were thinking that it was aliens from out of space. No, it was us in league with, uh, with these demonic entities.

[00:39:25] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, definitely. And I think, um, was it the Roswell crash? I think they found live bodies or whatever. they did deal with them, the government, I mean, oh yeah.

Deal with them like exchange for technology and power

[00:39:42] Mel: and stuff. I, I, I believe that too. This is when, uh, what Eisenhower, wait, Roswell was 45 Eisenhower Eisenhower. Uh, Truman was president when Roswell happened and Eisenhower took over after then. And from what I understand, it was Eisenhower that gave the okay.

that’s when the president was still the president and he could, you know, do whatever we wanted, but Eisenhower was the one that gave him the green light. Like, okay, no problem. Yeah. not, yeah. Not, not knowing what their, what their real intentions were, but we were talking about this on one of my live streams the other day.

I don’t think it has anything to do. Do you know why they hate women?

[00:40:27] Jeremiah: Cause they carry wife.

[00:40:29] Mel: Ah, Jeremiah, you’re a smart mother. They hate women because women give life, these other beings, these, uh, other entities, they cannot do what humans could do. God gave us that gift. We can reproduce that way. They can’t.

That’s why they’re so damn old. They can’t do it. Yeah. And I think,

[00:40:54] Jeremiah: yeah, I’ve been telling people about the. A hybrid program with the abductions and all, cuz I really like got into that and I always say like, why is it that whenever you hear women recounting or even men recounting seeing children or babies on like UFOs or wherever they are mm-hmm um, why are the babies always like sickly or dying or uh, need human, uh, touch or.

Being held by a human like it’s cuz they can’t create

[00:41:29] Mel: one. Exactly. They’re not like us. See, and this, I, I said this in my video. I don’t know if you even watch any of my videos, but I said this on my, uh, my video earlier today. Um, the reason why the devil is so hell bent on destroying us is because of the way God made.

Why do you think the, uh, uh, even food right now they’re targeting people’s reproductive systems. They’re putting shit in food now, right now, as we speak to target our reproductive systems, they’re jealous. Yeah.

[00:42:12] Jeremiah: Yeah. Now they’re, um, I’ve noticed within the past, like, I don’t know, five years or so, they’re really pushing this fake.

And you’re trying

[00:42:21] Mel: to of course, price of regular

[00:42:23] Jeremiah: meat. So you can’t afford it

[00:42:24] Mel: anymore, right? Well, okay. But fake meat. Okay. Who owns all the farmland in America? Most of it.

[00:42:32] Jeremiah: Um, what’s his name? Bill

[00:42:34] Mel: gates. Okay. Why do you think it’s bill gates? That’s telling you to eat fake meat

[00:42:41] Jeremiah: because it’s part of the plan.

[00:42:43] Mel: right. They want the real food for them and their people. Us, you know, these, these peasants, at least that’s not what God thinks of us, but us. Yeah. That’s what they think of us. No, we can’t eat real meat. Are you kidding me? No. Fuck that. Yeah. We have to eat the fake shit. Synthetic food GMO or whatever you want to call it.

We have to eat that bullshit. They don’t, I don’t how. Yeah, go on

[00:43:16] Jeremiah: on, you gotta think why, um, you have to ask yourself, why is a computer geek telling you what to do with your health? Wellbeing. And why is a computer geek owning most of the farmland in the United States? Right? Like you gotta ask yourself that

[00:43:35] Mel: why?

Well, first of all, Jeremiah, you just proved a couple things. One, you are Putin support and white supremacists because you’re not supposed to ask those questions. You’re not supposed to ask those questions. Why is it that bill gates wants to own all the farmland and tell you what to eat? Why is it that he warns you about vaccines and then says, Hey guys, by the way, I made one.

Why is it that bill gates says that the population of the earth is too high this way I could do a good job with that with vaccinations. Wait a minute. Shouldn’t it had been with vaccina, with vaccinations. We could help people live longer. Should that have not been the message? You understand what I mean?

Yeah, he, yeah, he

[00:44:16] Jeremiah: legitimately said that like they’re

[00:44:18] Mel: feuding. I know. I know. And everybody just sat there, like mm-hmm mm-hmm . I dude, you couldn’t have me in that place. I would’ve been like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up, back up, back up. Whoa, whoa, hang on. Hang on. Hang. You just said that with vaccines, we could go back down to about 5 billion or I forgot an number he gave.

You said that we could cut the population down, but isn’t the point of vaccines to ensure that we survive longer? Isn’t that the point of a vaccine? Yeah, not all these people full of shit. And the thing is he never gets called on it. I don’t know how somebody has not, uh, by now with that dude. And, and, and this includes his, his private security, because the man is so clearly satanic and evil, evil, evil, so evil that he could say it on TV and nobody would even bat an eye.

You think he’s gonna get a tough question from Don, uh, Don lemon from Rachel Maow from, from Matt Wallace, you think, uh, uh, not Matt Wallace. What’s his name? Chris Wallace. Chris Wallace. Yeah. You think Chris Wallace is gonna ask him of, is

[00:45:24] Jeremiah: that what’s that guy’s name? Uh, he’s always at the school shootings too.


[00:45:30] Mel: oh, oh, oh, oh yeah. Okay. Well, this is your show. I, I was gonna say something, but I’m trying to reserve myself with a lot of things because I don’t wanna mess up, you know, what you, what you have going on, you know, but yeah. Yeah. Anderson Cooper’s right there. Oh, Uh, uh, what’s the, the, uh, what’s the, what’s the name?

His, his brother’s name, Chelsea, whatever the hell. The one that he’s always with. That’s his brother.

[00:45:57] Jeremiah: Oh. And then, you know what kills me too is like with these mainstream media outlets and stuff and how blind a lot of people are. It’s like, you have a station like CNN, right. And all their main news anchors.

Are already outed and canned for like sexual misconduct and all this, that and the other. But yet people are still like glued

[00:46:21] Mel: to it. And here, here, here’s how I feel about that, man. You see smart people like you, me, your people like, you know, the, the, the ones that are subscribed to you, my people, the ones that are subscribed to me, they’re not.

There are so many people that are sleeping and no matter how you just wanna fucking shake ’em and wake ’em up, you can’t listen. Let me tell you something. I love my grandmother so much. She raised me. She loved me. She gave me everything I wanted growing. But if you tell her to vote Republican, something as simple as that, Hey, you know, Donald Trump is actually not a bad guy.

Me, her grandson, her favorite grand or grandson, she’d be like, get outta here. She doesn’t curse, but she doesn’t use profanity, but I’ll just say it for her. She’ll be like, get the fuck outta my face. I don’t want to hear that Donald Trump. No, he’s a, he’s a, he ran as a Republican. I can’t vote for him. But the, the, the even more disturbing part is if he ran as a Democrat, she would love him.

[00:47:39] Jeremiah: Yeah. It’s like when Donald Trump, before every minute before Donald Trump became president, he was not racist at all. He was,

[00:47:50] Mel: you know, until he came down the escalator

[00:47:52] Jeremiah: racist. Yeah. Until, until he became president, then he was all of a sudden racist because that’s what the media pushed on the,

[00:48:01] Mel: oh, of course.

[00:48:03] Jeremiah: There’s countless pictures of him with like rap, uh, stars. Yeah. And

[00:48:07] Mel: oh yeah. Matt, a bunch of black people, everybody even Obama himself said the American dream is to grow up and be Donald Trump. even Barack Obama said that . Yeah.

[00:48:24] Jeremiah: And then, like I said, when, as soon as he became president and the media told you to hate him, then everyone

[00:48:30] Mel: just started hating and that should tell you everything you need to know about the, what did I just tell you about who they take their orders from?

Yeah. That should tell you everything you need to know. I’m sorry to cut you off going.

[00:48:43] Jeremiah: No, it’s okay. I was just gonna say that. yeah, like E you know, how many people that were lifelong Democrats. My parents included that voted for Donald Trump when he ran the, that first time. Well, he only was president once, but when he ran, they voted for him.

But then, like I said, soon as the mass media said, oh, orange man, bad. Then all of a sudden they hated. and it was like, well, you voted for him.

[00:49:16] Mel: yeah. Yeah. But that, like, he wasn’t an issue until then. Yeah. Yeah. But that, that, that, that speaks volumes to how the mainstream media has such a hold of people’s minds.

They said not one bad thing about Barack Obama when he was running for president and that motherfucker, he’s not American for one, and he’s not a, let’s just say a traditional human being. So to. I’m fully convinced of that. And if you remember correctly, who is the only person that called out Barack Obama.

Oh, Trump. Ah, there you go. Jeremiah. I was like, it took me a second. Yeah. Yeah. The only person that came forward and said, who the fuck is this guy? Nobody knows him from, yeah, the, the media sensationalizing him. Nobody’s saying anything bad about him. Who is he from? Oh, he went to Harvard, who are his teachers.

Then after eight years of him, you have people that allegedly went to Harvard said, we didn’t know who the fuck that was. We never saw him in our school. So bullshit, but they never expected there was a, um, gone. Sorry. Did me to cut you? No, no, no, no, go on. No,

[00:50:31] Jeremiah: no. I was gonna say, I think there was a movie or a TV show that, um, had a character just like Obama.

uh, basically they were saying that he was just an actor like that he was made for that role.

[00:50:46] Mel: Yes. An engineered puppet. I forget what show it was. I, I don’t, I don’t know the show either. I don’t watch TV, but an engineered puppet. Yes. A hundred percent, uh, uh, an engineered puppet and, and, and it’s so sad now you have, uh, yeah, go.

no, no, I was just it’s so it’s so sad. You know, they they’re telling us right now, Obama was as evil as he is, uh, a sensation. I voted for him in 2008, you know? Well, mainly because my grandmother told me to, you know, well, he,

[00:51:24] Jeremiah: he had a lot of people believe in the hype.

[00:51:28] Mel: Nah, I, I don’t know, man. It is just. Who would really in a million years believe that Joe Biden got 10 million more votes than Barack Obama?

[00:51:41] Jeremiah: No way. There’s no way

[00:51:44] Mel: 10 million more vote. Obama was a sensation. People were fighting people just to get to the front of the voting line to vote for Obama, Joe Biden stadiums. Right? Of course you remember in Chicago. Thousands and thousands of people and Joe Biden, somebody that didn’t campaign got more VI Joe Biden.

Yeah. Look, come on, man. You really want me to believe that bullshit?

[00:52:16] Jeremiah: Yeah. I’m telling you it’s it’s crazy. And

[00:52:19] Mel: Hey, Hey listen, listen, you put Putin support and white supremacists. If you even talk about election integrity, if you do not repeat these words. 2020 was the most safe and secure election of all time then?

Uh, apparently you’re just a white supremacist dude. I mean, that’s what the media’s saying. Uh, I, you gone,

[00:52:41] Jeremiah: I personally, I personally think this is, well, it used to be agenda 21, but now it’s agenda 30. Um, but I, I, I think it’s all part of the plan, like this whole pandemic nonsense, and then. All the election and then all that’s transpiring now, like it’s all part of the plan.

Like I posted today and I have it right here. You have Klaus Schwab, who’s the head of the world. Economic forum,

[00:53:09] Mel: evil, fuck. He said will use

[00:53:11] Jeremiah: this. Yeah. And he says, this is his direct quote. The pandemic represents a rare, but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine and reset our world. So what’s that tell.

[00:53:24] Mel: it tells you everything they’re talking about now, cl Schwab may be an evil son of a bitch and he is, but do you see his number two? Noah Harari? You know, Noah Harari. I’ve heard


[00:53:40] Jeremiah: him. I don’t know too

[00:53:42] Mel: much. Noah Harari is the guy that just sat there straight up and down and told you. Yeah, human beings are obsolete.

We’re not gonna need you soon. You guys are all useless. sooner or later we’re gonna replace you. We’re gonna be able to read your thoughts with vaccines. We’re not gonna care about you. We’re gonna give you enough money to live, just so that you can sit there and masturbate and play video games all day that’s that’s Klaw Schwab’s number two, and he’s worse than K schwa.

K Schwab is fucking devil reincarnated, but Noah Hararis in my opinion, worse than him, because he actually just says. Yeah, we don’t need so many humans. Let, let’s just kill some of them. I mean, a, a lot of them who cares, we don’t need you. You’re useless. But the, the, the part that really hang on, I, I gotta find it.

You, you gotta hear this shit yourself, dude. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. no, no, no, listen. Just hear me out on this one. Uh, Noah, uh,

[00:54:43] Jeremiah: well, same thing with, um, what was it? The world business forum or whatever, Joe Biden straight up said where we’re getting towards, or we’re heading towards a new world order. And I, I made a little news clip about it and I was like, this guy just actually just said that

[00:55:00] Mel: yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no.

It was the one that Noah Harari said about, we are no longer, what did he say? We are no longer. uh, clueless. Uh, did he say souls? Mysterious? I think is the word he used. We are no longer mysterious souls. We, we know now that we could hack you. That’s what he said. We know now that we could hack you. He said, he said, um, uh, uh, the Germans tried to do it and then the Soviet union tried to do it, but we’re gonna do it.

We can hack human beings. Human beings are hack. now, I don’t know about you, Jeremiah, but, um, ain’t no metal in me. Okay. There’s no vaccination in me and there’s no Bluetooth signals coming from me because I never was vaccinated. How are you gonna do that?

[00:55:59] Jeremiah: Well, another thing that, um, I’m kind of torn on and I’m still trying to like process it, I guess you could say, but.

this Elon Musk character. Like, I don’t know whether to trust him or not, cuz he’s like dealing with that neural stuff. And I’m like, I don’t know if I’m down with that. But then he goes and buys Twitter

[00:56:20] Mel: and I’m I’m 50 50 on Elon Musk even though, uh, I have a, a sub she’s actually become a very good friend, uh, Vegas.

Well, she’s from Vegas. So I just call her Vegas. Uh she’s like, don’t do it, doc. Don’t do it. She said, do not trust him. This guy is talking about hacking people’s minds, just like Noah Harari. Don’t trust him. And I was like, wait a minute. Is she onto something? Now? Of course, with distractions, he got a lot of praise when he came out and said, you know, he wants to buy.

but here’s the thing. What if it’s all a part of something bigger anyway. All right, Jeremiah, I don’t wanna keep you for, uh, for too much longer, man, but thank you for, uh, for having me on your show. Yeah.

[00:57:19] Jeremiah: Thanks for coming on. Keep making content, cuz I definitely listen to it. And uh, and your friend, I forget her name Tori.

Yeah. I enjoy her stuff too. She put up a long. Uh, Sandy hook video today, I think. Or

[00:57:34] Mel: yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. She text me this morning. Um,

[00:57:37] Jeremiah: yeah, I was watching that today. but yeah, guys keep it up and we need more people speaking

[00:57:43] Mel: the truth. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And we need more people like you getting the message out there, man.

I, I could only reach, but so far, I’m not one of these people, you know, with a million people listening to, uh, you know, everything that I have to say, but the only thing I’m trying to do. And this is between me and you. I’m just trying to wake people up, man, before it’s too fucking late.

[00:58:06] Jeremiah: Yeah. I feel like we’re on that.

Like cusp of like the point and overturn

[00:58:12] Mel: revelations. We are, we are living in revelations right now, right

[00:58:18] Jeremiah: now. Like the whole gas price thing, I think is all orchestrated

[00:58:22] Mel: to you think, oh, I know. I was gonna say, how the hell was gas? Just, I was in Kansas. What a dollar 93. And now in California, it’s almost $8.

How, how, how, how does that happen? We didn’t run out. You made them stop making more gas and I’m telling you right now, and this is for all your viewers. Um, it’s not like a fear mongering thing or anything, but make sure. That you guys are ready, food, water, ammo, the hardware. You know what I’m talking about?

Make sure you have it because remember one thing, dude, when food runs out, when they can get in Walmart easy, they will be coming to people’s homes to kick the door. And get whatever food they can. So just make sure that you guys are ready for that. And that’s it. I’m out. All right.

[00:59:28] Jeremiah: Take it easy. Uh, have a good rest of your weekend, which is probably just a few hours.

[00:59:34] Mel: you got it. All right, Jeremiah. All right. Take care, buddy. Byebye.

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UFO Encounters

UFO Encounters

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[00:00:00] jeremiah: Hello? Oh, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if they’re wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything, your reality is about to be shattered.

Hello, my fellow. Terrestrials welcome back. Thank you for tuning in. We will have an amazing interview with Joanne summers. Joanne summers is a UFO researcher and has dedicated a good chunk of her life to researching UFO’s and interviewing up duct teas and other people who have had an experience with UFO encounters.

So it’s going to be really awesome. We’re also going to be talking about her Iowasca experience in the beginning of the show, but we’ll get into the UFO stuff and also don’t turn it. If you hear Lai Iowasca stuff, cause it will turn to some really good stories involving UFO encounter. What if the wrong podcast is now on buy me a coffee.

So if you feel like donating to the show, you can go on the link in the description, drop a donation, be highly appreciated. Also, if you donate, I will give you a shout out on the next episode. Today’s shout out is going to be for Ponzi Ponzi, donated to the show. And I want to give him thanks. Keep listening, keeping your mind open and remember question everything.

And without further ado here is Joanne summers.


Hello, and welcome to what if the wrong podcast? I’m your host. Jeremiah. I’m joined today by Joanne or Joanna from the ITI newsroom. And, uh, we’re going to talk about aliens UFO’s abductions and whatever else. Comes across our plate here. So, uh, we’ll introduce her now.

Hello, Joanne. Hey,

[00:02:13] Joanne: how are you?

[00:02:15] jeremiah: I’m good. How are you? That’s

[00:02:16] Joanne: great. I hope you’re getting some nice weather where there’s a bit blustery and blue today. I’m by the sea in, uh, the Southeast of England near Hastings. And, uh, but it’s, it’s just, you know, the weather is really trying to ramp up and get a bit sunny, you know, get a bit warmer.

[00:02:31] jeremiah: Yeah. Yeah. I’m in North Carolina and it’s like 90 something today. It’s hot.

[00:02:37] Joanne: Oh, that, that, that’s why we’re down in. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That that’s that’s hot.

[00:02:44] jeremiah: Yes. So definitely summertime is, is

[00:02:48] Joanne: coming. Yeah. Well, we haven’t got quite into summer time yet. We’re still in our spring, although we’ve hit June now.

We’re kind of early, early summer. Late spring.

[00:02:59] jeremiah: Yeah. Well, it’ll be around the corner.

[00:03:02] Joanne: It is. It absolutely.

[00:03:06] jeremiah: All right. So, um, I guess we’ll get started with. What got you into the hole, ITI and UFO and abduction phenomenon, you know,

[00:03:16] Joanne: that’s, that’s a very interesting one. And I, and I’ve just interviewed a guy, an older gentleman in the UK has got some amazing astonishing images that he’s just put through some amazing software she’s never done before.

Um, and we can talk about that in a minute, but what he was saying to, uh, he is an experience. So, and I don’t consider myself an experience or though I may be now, I’m not quite sure since going public with this work in about 2011, uh, you know, I wouldn’t call myself an experience where the paranormal and stuff like that.

And I’ve also had quite a few experiences like that today since starting that in a big way. So that being, uh, producing public material, uh, and so going back and back and back, I just, I don’t know, I’ve always known there was more to life than the physical. Not that the physical is not important, it’s just a part of it.

And. You know, I’m a regression therapist. So I started quite early on wanting to know what was making me tick and what were also causing me issues because, um, you know, within the experience a UFO field, uh, a lot of it, it’s not uncommon for experiences. People who’ve had these ITI experiences and whether they’re positive or negative or in-between, it, it’s a life changing event.

And sometimes it’ll just be seeing a craft. I, I didn’t have that right at the beginning in my life. I haven’t had that growing up, but I’ve just had this knowing the sense that there’s something more out there and seemingly along the way, I’ve just been led by the nose and I’ve got more and more public with my work or exploring it.

Um, but things like, um, other sort of on the, on the outer edges of life, things that I’ve done in exploring this kind of thing is like going to the Philippines to see, um, psychic surgeons, which I did a couple of times. And so several of those, so, you know, that’s another whole level of experience. Um, in the same year, 2011 that I started, what was the mash project, which is now the ITI newsroom, uh, because it got hacked and sadly, my hallway is like, you know, somebody was trying to stop it and, uh, they stopped their mash project, but they didn’t stop the overall tenant of what I’m doing.

But anyway, I went to Peru and, uh, I’m not a recreational drug user or anything like that. So I much prefer a glass of wine, stuff like that. Um, but I went to with an old pal and we, we went to experience as part of, um, I guess, exploring ourselves a spiritual quest, if you like, without sounding too highfalutin about it.

Um, I was Oscar, so, you know, that was another, um, interesting thing. And then along the way, uh, various things have, um, Kept propelling me in this direction. And I can’t tell you any one thing or a, you know, any series of events, it seems to be cumulative, but it seems to be a kernel of an idea about this expanded universe, expanded life that has always been, um, kind of, you know, bubbling along inside me.

So I, I, you know, I guess that’s probably very similar for a lot of people. I don’t think that’s very different, not everybody’s done was gone to the Philippines, but, you know,

[00:06:42] jeremiah: yeah. It’s funny that you say that because actually in like a month, I’m going to Peru with my fiance and her daughter. And, but we’re not doing like Iowasca or anything.

We’re just backpacking and checking out the ruins and all that stuff.

[00:06:57] Joanne: Yeah. Well, I didn’t get much time to do all of that. I was there on, you know, that, that wasn’t for very long. So how long have you guys done

[00:07:04] jeremiah: we’re going for like eight or nine days? No. Okay. And, um, I heard, I’ve heard about Iowasca before and, um, I think I first heard about on like Joe Rogan or something and, uh, and yeah, I’ve heard about different people’s experience with it and it really seems like a soul searching journey, like you said.

[00:07:26] Joanne: Yeah. I, I, you know, someone said to me, oh, that’s, that’s really funny because you’ve gone from like being a zero user of anything like that to like a straight up class age. Oh, I know. Yeah. Okay. Well, I, you know, I never think in those terms, because it’s not my life, it’s not my experience. Unlike the T stuff is much more so, you know, other people perceive it and, and perceive me doing those things as something, you know, a bit, a bit weird.

[00:07:55] jeremiah: Um, where are you able to, uh, I know this isn’t really on topic, but were you able to. Get any answers through your Iowasca sessions?

[00:08:07] Joanne: Um, well I, well, yeah, interesting. Not as you might think. Not the ordinary way I had an injury. I fell I D during the session, uh, and I cut my head quite badly. I think I probably quite as quite badly concussed that brought me out the experience.

I know it’s just, I kind of was a big detail, but there was something that came out of that. And then on the second time where, where I went, there’s a guy, a compatriot of yours called Ron Wheelock. Who’s been an Iowasca Sharman, if you like in the Amazon, just outside of ketosis for, for, for very many years.

I don’t know whether he’s late fifties or 60, but he’s been doing it since he was like 18, you know, again, probably a past life, previous life experience of being in, in the Peruvian shamanic journeys scenario. And so. I w the weird thing is this isn’t this how intuition works sometimes again, a little aside, but how we are in that collective mindset.

I had this feeling, I’d heard a Ron Wheelock talking on coast to coast, um, some long time ago. And I went along with, um, uh, Graham Hancock and Graham Hancock is known for having done about 30 times or more. I mean, uh, you know, I’ve, I’ve done it twice. And, uh, that’s probably enough. There are, you know, if some people were going and they said, come on, John, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a tremor.

I might go, but I don’t feel I need to anymore. But, um, but because the way Ron explained it and how, of course he’s, he’s American. So he spoke perfect English, and I have some Spanish, but you know, it’s not hugely conversational or in trouble Spanish. And something said to me, you need to really find someone who speaks English in cases of crisis.

Now I’m not a worrywart. I don’t have. Feelings or thoughts normally, but I just observed and thought, well, that’s odd and never thinking for a moment. It might be my emergency, like split my headache. But anyway, so, so we went with Ron from Wheelock. He also does an amazing, an amazing, uh, amazingly affordable.

He makes it affordable for, for everybody, you know? Cause you can go and do these two or $3,000 luxury jobs or you can go to Ron

[00:10:34] jeremiah: curious.

[00:10:35] Joanne: Yeah. So, so, um, anyway, it, it was interesting because one of the things that happened on the second time I took, it was an experience of being on board, a ship, a craft spacecraft, and I was captain and it was very intense and it was very. I mean, it was like a reality. It was interesting. And what had happened was that the whole session where everybody gone to bed, so the Iowasca session took place between nine and one, 1:00 AM 9:00 PM, 1:00 AM.

And so everybody was in bed and mainly people were sleeping and in deep sleep, after that, I wasn’t, I just was wide awake and we were, it was this sort of dorm kind of scenario. And we’d all got the NEPs over our beds. And, um, but my, my next weren’t drawn around. But what was interesting is my neighbor’s bed.

I started now, first of all, I felt a physical shaking of my bed. Absolute physical shaking. I thought, oh, wow, that that’s strange. We must be having a little, a little earth shake quake, whatever. And then, uh, at the same time I noticed that there was an orangy ready, yellow. Color going, playing up my neighbors curtains.

And I thought, oh, you know, nets. I thought, oh wow, that’s really weird. And if that had stopped there, I would just, just thought that was my imagination. And then, but it continued. And the bed shaking, my bed being shaken continued, and I sat up and looked around and I thought, well, other people must be feeling this.

Um, anyway, it turns out that they didn’t, nobody was aware of that. And I’ve, since, since I came back and I mean, on my return, I, I check this out and try to find out what, you know, is there such a, an anomaly, a phenomenon as, uh, as you being physically shaken? And I don’t mean like a Poltergeist. I mean, some other force acting anyway, apparently that this is not a known when it was unknown to me at the time.

Um, but of course in that moment, I didn’t know it. And I found myself having an internal conversation with. Some others. I can only say others who were demanding really asking that. Um, I, I hope them with my ship, my ship was B what the shaking was apparently was my ship was taking flag. I was being, I was being attacked.

I was being, you know, ordinance was being threatened my way. And I was being told if I didn’t, if I didn’t take action, you know, that was it. I really didn’t have much more time left. And I don’t know whether I would died or in that life or whatever, but it was, it was interesting. Cause it was so real. I mean, here I am sitting or laying in this bed, having this experience of the bed, shaking the light, which still continued like, and it was like flames actually.

And that’s what it was. Apparently it was flames from this other dimension showing on this other part. Um, lips and, um, anyway, ultimately to, to, to stop this, I acquiesced and I was, I was given some instructions that I had to action, certain things which were to actually hit, hit back. And I had some ordinance myself, which they told me about it and there was some code going on.

It was quite involved. And, uh, and I looked at the ship. I said, if this is my ship, you know, uh, give it, it must have a name. Cause you know, all shit, you know, I just was getting really testy at this time. And um, they said it’s the Aurora Aurora. And it really, I got this view of it on the outside. I just saw this whole.

And it looked really battered. And I said, oh God, don’t tell me, you know, I don’t even get the star Trek thing. I get the L bucket. I can’t to be captain Marvel, honestly. Anyway. So there was all of that. And the next day I, I told the other guys about my whole experience and, and one of the guys said, John, you know what?

I think I must’ve been on board. Your craft. I was, I was I’m dreaming like a real dream of being onboard craft. I went well. Geez. I don’t know. I didn’t see you there. And if possible, because it, it was really intense and it was as real as I’m sitting here talking to you. Very amazing. So anyway, that was the, the Iowasca, um, friend I went with had gone specifically because his father had passed quite early on in his life.

And he wanted to see if there was a way to connect and he had bad experience, which is great. But no, I, I had the Zuki spooky, you know, I’m captain of some shit. I mean, it sounds absolutely crazy to say it out loud, but you know, that was just my experience and people can make it what they want, but I know there’s a quantum universe and I know that we can have these several lives.

And as a regression therapist, I, I know from my own work and training myself, You know, there’s several different lives I’ve touched base with, and that’s quite extraordinary as well, because there is a kernel, a tiny little kernel of the person I am today there that I recognized, although not, no, not the whole personality.

Isn’t that fascinating.

[00:15:53] jeremiah: Yeah. It is an every, every, uh, Iowasca experience. I hear other people’s stories. Um, definitely. It’s definitely interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it really does seem to like make you see yourself kind of well were experienced. Probably not, but a lot of other peoples they kind of. Get some deep meaning out of it.

[00:16:20] Joanne: Well, you knew that that was quite deep for me in a, in a way that, um, I’m quite a skeptical person and I have a very logical, fairly analytical way of thinking. And so when this was happening and it, these the I, this conversation internal conversation was going on, which it wasn’t me speaking with myself.

It was me, you know, w with some other party, uh, you know, that feels that, that feels quite challenging to accept if, if you go down that route. So, and at the end of the day, what happened was, is the moment that I had set my ordinance off. It seemed to stop like on a dime at everything quiet and the bed stop shaking, the lights stopped funk, or, you know, stopped, uh, being there and everything was quiet again, mean.

I was quiet. There was nobody around me battering my inner ear, trying to get me to do something. But a humbling experience I had was that when I fell, what happened was it that Ron, Ron Wheelock, the Sharman had said, you know, guys, when we do this, it’s really important. And there are some, you know, housekeeping, danger notes as well that you really must be aware of.

Um, first of all, if you, if you feel, you know, you need to go to the, to the loo, you know, that the hole in the ground around the corner, um, if you’ve taken the, I already, you, you know, and you don’t feel stable and believe me, you do not feel stable. Um, just put your hand up or just say, uh, could I have some help?

And there was a guy who was helping Ron, and anyway, he said, I, or this chap will come. And of course, you know, I felt, oh, well I just, you know, it’s four hours can be four hours. I thought I bet Lou break. And so, and I, and the iOS grid taken effect in as much as my head was spinning. And I obviously tried to stand up.

I have no conscious memory of doing that, but I know I would have done. And so I know that this chap came toward me. And what happened was that as he, I think, went to try and, and just, uh, stabilize me if you like, just, you know, whatever I actually fell. And there was, um, there’s a concrete plinth of about ye deep and I hit, uh, I mean, sack of potatoes, jobs, split head, all that, no edge go with that in the, in the jungle.

Um, and any. And that brought me out to the iowaska and the pain. Anyway, I just can’t tell you the pain. It was unbelievable, but the next day I was really, really angry with this guy. I mean, I was consumed with anger. I mean, this is a story, uh, against myself and I thought, you know, I also know too well that when you are working in these higher forms, dementia is you cannot take heavy negative emotion into anything because you can bring some unpleasant stuff along that resonates where you are.

So I knew I had to deal with that. And anyway, so I was blaming him for not holding me or catching me and whatever anyway. And so I w I went and did a little bit of meditation. And as I did that, I saw this image of this chap. And he was in a white Tabard with a red cross, like a. I think he was, I think it was in the template time.

And this was obviously a past life that we had together and there was I, and I don’t wear gray at all. And there I was in it and I looked smaller. I looked like I was very, very petite. Um, and, and I had a gray hood, a cloak with a hood that fitted the head and it was, it was to the floor and I was, and he said to me, I will come with you as far as I can go.

And there was something that I was going to have to do, which now this is going to sound very, very strange, but it was a sense of having to negotiate either on behalf of my community human community or humanity. I’m just not sure. I don’t, I can’t reach that information. And I was going to go through this tunnel into a subterranean area to meet these.

And for some reason, I, I, I don’t know why I was doing it. I think it was something to do with my bloodline that they weren’t going to kill me first off. Anyway, I know it sounds completely outlandish. I’m completely aware of that, but that was, that was what I saw. And that was what I understood. And what I saw was this, the guy I was so angry with was actually doing what nobody else would do.

And he was coming with me to the very edge and I was blown away and I sat there in tears because it was such a deep emotional thing because clearly he had, you know, th this was a task that nobody else would do. And I was going to have to do whatever I had chosen to do, let’s say, but he was the only one that would come this far with me and protects me to that point.

He couldn’t do anything afterwards. He wasn’t allowed whatever, however, that worked. And I felt so. You know, there was my ego rara raging against the sky. Couldn’t even just stop me falling over and, you know, half killing myself. And anyway, so it was very humbling and I never did find him to apologize to afterwards.

He just disappeared from the group just gone. So, you know, that was very, very, um, it was humbling because I was blaming, I was definitely in the blame game there. And, um, there was no blame, it was just something on that was also, I think part of the mechanism for me understanding that, um, there was another layer of experience that this was to do with which I don’t have any more information about.

And I don’t know the outcome of any meeting I might’ve had with those subterranean beings. That was not also in my remit to know it was just really, I had to clear this stuff and, um, whether that was a convenient sensing or feeling, I don’t know. It certainly brought me back and put me back in my place.


[00:22:42] jeremiah: yeah, it sounds, sounds like a, quite the experience. Yeah, it

[00:22:47] Joanne: was that it wasn’t as dramatic as some people’s fear granted, but it was dramatic enough.

[00:22:53] jeremiah: Do you remember, do you remember like, um, conversing with these beings or you just knew that it was coming?

[00:23:01] Joanne: No, I just, I, I don’t know why. I know. And I D I think that they were, uh, I don’t know if I said this already reptilian kind of beings or somebody similar.

And I was, I saw myself, it was a tunnel entrance and I saw myself and there were some steps create, you know, couldn’t made steps and I, and I saw myself beginning to go down and it’s like, I wasn’t allowed, or it wasn’t relevant or pertinent at that point to know what the outcome of that was, but it was a shock.

I, I, it was a real shock eight. Be humbled at my raw outrage at that guy, poor guy who actually was doing me, such a service. I had no idea and it probably doesn’t seem many thing, you know, when I tell it like this, but actually it felt like it was a huge deal. You know, anyway, you know, there we go. So all of these experiences, they kind of, uh, you know, add to you the, you who you are this time and, you know, talking about that sort of thing, you know, I didn’t know those memories.

And one of in my regression work, when I was, uh, working on that, uh, level more, I had a couple of clients, a gentleman who one had, um, an ETA experiences. So every night he would have this thing of needing to go to the loo. And every time he would see him, his reflection is washing his hands in the bathroom cabinet.

There wasn’t his face. It was the face of what we know is the gray, the archetypal gray. And so he was trying to get to the bottom of what the heck that meant. And then another guy. Somebody completely different. He was having these nightmares and an H and he wants to get to the bottom of what that was about and where this investigation took him.

Uh, as I helped, um, support him in that was, he wa he said that he was now in, obviously in the human body, but he had been at some point, uh, gray and that he’d come from a planet that had, um, exploded and this, and so. Because they were dying, he needed his soul or essence needed to take on a new form, uh, in, uh, on a different planet.

And so I hadn’t had her, Hey, I hadn’t heard that before. So that was kind of fascinating. And, uh, you know, I also met, um, and did a couple of little, uh, across the dining room table interviews with a wonderful Peruvian guy called Sixto as well as, I don’t know whether you know, of him, his, uh, work is known under the banner of mission Rommer and he, when he was 17, got some automatic writing through.

And basically these ETS were saying were from, uh, one of the moons of Jupiter was Ganymede and, uh, ARPU and, and, you know, that started off a lifelong association. So now he’s a contractor, he’s not an abductee and he’s totally conscious of his meetings and has actually been on board. I don’t know it was once or twice in full consciousness, which is not what often happens, you know, often it’s just, um, it is that, you know, we suddenly find ourselves in a, in a different set of parameters, but just like, uh, the guy I have just finished interviewing, um, he’s called Nigel right from the UK.

He had an experience when he in 65, when he was just seven years old and he only found out what that experience actually was when he was 40, in 1997, when he had a regression, a session with somebody and he found that on that night, there was this sort of event going on and just his family, his, he hadn’t seen it, but his mother had seen this craft.

Anyway, none of the family spoke about this artist, but in 1997, when you had this regression, he sold that these Nordic type ETS had come in. Uh, th they were on a caravan holiday, very popular in England. And he, they had taken the parents and him onboard craft, and they were talking to him about being medical scientists and that he had some particular issue that they wanted to look at because they were from earth, but in a different time.

Very interesting. Isn’t it? I mean, that’s absolutely fascinating. So people want to go and check out the Nigel, right. Uh, interviews on my YouTube channel. They’ll find that fascinating because he hasn’t, um, he hasn’t spoken to anybody by his, uh, circle about this before to any degree. So we’re kind of bottomed out these details and also he’s been taking some extraordinary images or putting them through these images he’s been taking of craft through their software.

I need you to just throwing up some absolutely remarkable. So I’m just putting that one together.

[00:28:10] jeremiah: Yeah. I have heard about the, um, there are some people who say the alien and a abduction stuff is actually like time travelers. So I have like that spin on it.

[00:28:24] Joanne: Absolutely. I mean, um, this guy, I’m just going to show you this so, so people can know it.

If they see it. Um, bill Brooks is, came to me in about 2012 and he, because he’d had a series of heart attacks and strokes, and he just wanted to try one last time to see if someone would listen to him. Because this guy from the mid of England, he was a died in the more skeptic. Absolutely didn’t believe in ghosts or paranormal.

Anything to do with ITI would have thought people like me were a complete fruitcake in those days. And then in 1994, interestingly, when he was 44 and the title of the book, 44, um, he had this download for want of a better term. And what happened. It’s a bit like a near death experience. That’s the best way to understand it.

You know, when you people recount how they’ve seen their whole lives played out and you know, everything that they’d forgotten about. And not only that, the people’s reactions, all of that stuff. Well, so this guy for 44 years, he’d been in the army, he’d be earning his livelihood as a musician. He, he really didn’t think anything of the UFO ITI scenario.

And then when he had this download, which. Jeff, you know, who knows what triggered it? We don’t know that he doesn’t know that, but this download happened when he saw his entire life play out from virtually a toddler, which is when he was first taken. And he just, it was like whole deluge, like a tsunami of experiences, you know, like rapid gunfire going through his brain and his heart.

And he said, I, I thought I’d had a nervous breakdown. I thought I’d had a mental breakdown because for a man who is so skepticals, who sees everything in black and white, and maybe will say that white is black. If he feels like it, that kind of mentality. Um, for him, this was a huge, huge, you know, it’s like broken it, breaking his head, open, huge deal.

And 20 years later, it was about 20 years later that. Contacted me and just, and he said, I’m still recovering. He said, I’m still assimilating all of that that came in. But this guy, or I what’s interesting about just referencing the Nigel right incident when these medical scientists, Nordic looking, people spoke to them.

I got him to describe what he could of the craft. And he mentioned that the windows that he could see there were like portholes. Well, how fascinating is this? When bill Brooks was only about, we don’t know who he was five or sorry, not five or, um, nine or 10, which would have been in 59 or 60. Um, 1960. He, he was invited a border craft with a similar looking party of people, but they’d got two kids with them and he said they, he also saw.

Windows in the ship, uh, amongst other things. So that was a fascinating bit of corroborative information if you like. Cause I haven’t heard that before. And so bill Brooks, getting back to him had the most incredible experience which did involve, um, you know, Jeremiah, like you were saying this time, travel business, this time, dilation time shifting.

I don’t know what, what else it actually is because I mean, get this, this is a fascinating short story and stop me if you want to ask any questions, but, okay. So, so he was. One of the things is he was delivering he, well, actually, let me tell you the army thing, because that also involved people, personnel of Mary, of 51 when he was in Germany and on this occasion, he, so he typed this good friend called John and they were abducted together within the first week or at least 10 days of him being in the army.

And he was only 18. He didn’t know anything. So this would be 1968. And again, some 40 years later, barely still having his head messed with, with all of this realization. Now that’s coming to him and he thinks God, if only I could get hold of John and talk about this, I, you know, it would kind of put some things to bed for me, you know, help me understand some things.

So he found a number and it wasn’t John’s, it was John’s brother. Now he’d met John’s brother. So he’s made in the army because his, his brother had gone into the. And, um, he’d seen the two brothers fighting before he knew they were brothers, his maiden there’s other guy. And some people pulled him back.

Cause they don’t know. No, you don’t interfere with brothers fighting. I went oh, okay. Okay. Anyway, so he kind of just knew the brother from that. So he’d actually met him all those years ago. So bill said, well, I want to speak to John about this year for business about the CT thing that went on and the brother said, well, you won’t speak to him because he’s become a complete recluse literally for all these donkey’s years, because he is terrified of this subduction scenario going on and he will not speak to anybody.

So anyway, a little bit more conversation, Suzanne, and then the guy’s brother says to bill my guy, well, when were you in the army? Anyway? And he goes so 68. He, he said, that’s impossible. That’s impossible. Cause we were there in the late fifties. How wild is that right?

[00:34:22] jeremiah: Yeah. I’ve heard of, I’ve heard a lot about, um, you know, the missing time with abductions and stuff and yeah, it definitely, there’s definitely some component of the abduction phenomenon that has to do with like bending time or space or

[00:34:40] Joanne: I, and again, just to give you another really amazing example in Bill’s life, because I, I know it’s so well having written the book.

Um, but, and it’s just fascinating because it’s unusual. And so he was just, he’s just a regular Joe, he’s just an ordinary guy. And before he started his life as a, as a musician, proper, he was, you know, trying to get into Cirque on the circuits and all that sort of thing. But in the meantime, he was doing, you know, delivery, driving jobs, that kind of thing.

Like people do, uh, you know, keep the rent, paid, all that. And. It got a job to deliver some, some, some cookers, some stoves, uh, to some people and the locations where, um, south of England and then a L a lot near it, where he was actually based, which is sort of near Oxford, near Oxford England, just to give people an idea, the other areas called Southampton.

So he thought, well, I’ll do the furthest. So this was at least two day journey. So he picks up the van and the van is already loaded off. He goes down to south Hampton. And so he delivers there. And now as he’s finished and he finishes really late, it’s probably by the time he parks up and he just is going to sleep in his car and then drop the more Homeward bound delivery off on the way back to Depot the next day.

So, so then he has this unbelievable, full on ITI abduction experience. Even sees a cow being taken up in a beam. And when I said to him, well, what did you, what did you think that was? You said, well, I don’t know. I’m not a typical bell. I’m not a farmer. You said for all, I know they could have been getting him up in the air with a forklift.

I said, did you think why they might be doing, he went, no, I just, I’m not a farmer. I don’t know. I don’t know what happens to animals in the fields anyway. So I mean, how crazy, right. But that’s how, that’s how bill is. He’s just, you know, a black and white kind of guy. So then, so he has this incredible experience, which it’s full on.

It comes back in the download some many years later, but at the time, all he sees when he comes back from that, the next day, when he’s due to do this next delivery, right, is the cow in front of his van, very dead mutilated, like the car mutilations. I need things. Oh my God. They going to think I’ve killed a cow.

And he links it out of that. He runs because he’s scared. He’s scared that someone’s going to get him to pay for this cow. So anyway, he, he then goes to deliver the rest of the, you know, the load and then he gets back. And when he gets back to, um, to base it’s they say, well, what are you, what are you doing back?

So he’s been gone over Monday and Tuesday and it’s now Tuesday afternoon, he went what’d you mean? I said, I’ve just done the delivery and I’m back. And yada, yada, I went, no, this is Monday. This is Monday. No, no, this is Monday. You’ve got that wrong. And he goes, no, I haven’t. I cause how can I deliver this one load?

All those very many miles away. And then do the delivery, you know, anyway, so the boss goes, this is a bit weird. He said, well, unless you’re Superman, you, you can’t. Right. So then he goes up and he rings the offices of the south Hampton Depot. And he apparently he said comes back to, he says, you’ve got your brother working for you, don’t you and bill goes, I don’t know what you thought bill had a disabled brother.

I mean, very disabled. So there’s no way that guy could work, let alone be delivering heavy cookers. And, um, it seems that his doppelganger was delivering, seemed to be delivering the ovens, although he’d done it in one life. Um, I, I, and you know, and the thing is, it was Monday. So what had happened to that time?

What had happened to Tuesday except he’d had on the Monday night, this unbelievable abduction experience. So, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s crazy. It’s worth a read. I tell you because it is, he found out that he’d been having abductions and encounters all his life from babyhood. And he said, and what’s more journey.

He said, I would not have believed it. If, if they had not continued after I was aware, he said they continued and I became conscious of the abductions happening and I became a sensitive to when they were around. And when something was going to happen, I tell you it’s the most for me, it’s one of the most amazing stories I’ve ever heard really is.


[00:39:34] jeremiah: yeah. Yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m reading this book by David Jacobson. I’m sure you’ve heard of them. Um, he does the hypnosis to try to get duct these, to remember their experiences and, uh, through reading the book of all his encounters with these people, um, Yeah, there seems to be something with, uh, families and generations.

And like, if, if you get abducted, your parents probably got, or one of your parents probably got ducted and then your kids probably will get abducted. And just seems like they have, there’s some procedure with the ETS that they just go through the generation and it’s like, they’re tracking people.

[00:40:22] Joanne: Yeah.

There, there is definitely a family. And also, I don’t know if it’s all separate bloodline thing going on. Um, no doubt about it, but not for everybody. It’s not a foregone conclusion. It’s just not unusual either. So I mean, you could have just, uh, you know, somebody who started having experiences in their forties or thirties or whatever, and nobody else in their family.

You know, I get set is interested or has had that as far as they’re aware, it’s a very interesting, curious scenario, but clearly, I mean, these, um, the Nigel rights scenario, um, they were medical scientists, these people who were talking to him, and they said that his father was carrying a particular, um, gene to do with bowel cancer.

And he also was not a carrier, but there was something about his genetics. And it said, what these beings, people, humans, they said, they were said was that it could affect their timeline. It could affect them at some point. And so they were here doing some. Uh, you know, incredible, uh, research work and interestingly enough, so Nigel was only seven at the, at the time of this encounter.

And back in, I think 1991, he suffered from a particularly virulent life-threatening form of bowel cancer, which he, uh, finally came through, but really, really very serious. And DA’s father died, died from it. So it’s fascinating, isn’t it? You know, there are, you know, I think the majority of ITI stuff is, is, uh, maybe research and, and a lot of people find it very positive because you you’re never the same.

I mean, if you have these experiences, you’re not the same person you were bill Brooks for goodness sake. You know, there was a guy suddenly opened his mouth. Because you cannot stay close minded when you are, have these things shoved in your face and your experience and your, your life begins to, uh, you know, have a lot of things that occur due to this thing.

And also your behaviors, because sometimes, uh, you know, you have PTSD from all of this, and this is another, uh, element that, uh, for those people who are ridiculed or do the ridiculing, please don’t please stop because it is a cause of terrible isolation and sometimes PTSD for these people. I know I’ve spoken to quite a few people who have lost family members and I say lost.

I mean, they are like ex-communicated because they dad to speak about. Had happened to them and they were looking for support, not to not retribution. Um, so businesses have gone, marriages have gone because the other party just can’t countenance, what’s gone on now. You know, I understand that. I, I do, but you know, this making fun of and ridiculing and all the rest of that, I mean, it’s just got to stop.

It’s awful. And if you don’t agree with it or don’t believe it that’s fair enough have your opinion, but you know, just don’t harangue, the person they’d been through enough, they’ve been through.

[00:43:47] jeremiah: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And a lot of abducted don’t really want. Fame or fortune from it or anything. They just want to live a normal life.

[00:43:57] Joanne: They’re just looking for some, for someone to, to share, you know, this incredible story with, because for them it’s life changing for them. If you know that, as I said before, they’re never the same and it totally changed the parameter of how they operate, who they are, how they develop as a person. I mean, it’s big it’s it’s.

I mean, I can’t think of anything more life-changing than that than having an encounter with an extra terrestrial. I mean, you know, I mean, I haven’t had an experience with, uh, not really, um, had some weird things happen, but, but not a full on, you know, somebody having to talk to me who tells me they’re from earth, from another dimension or, or, you know, whatever.

So, yeah, it’s just that we, I, and if we are clever and box clever with this, you know, we can, we can have so much of a collaboration and, you know, different life, you know, everything from technologies to medical stuff. I mean, you, I don’t know if you know, uh, Chris Bledsoe from the Carolinas. I can’t remember if he’s north or south, but he’s, um, he had, um, again, he was bedridden for, I don’t know, it was a couple of years, something like that with Crohn’s disease.

And he was just at the end of his tether. And then he had, uh, He comes from a fundamentalist religious background, very interesting, the backdrop and the context in which these things happen. And therefore in which we are challenged to deal with it, accept it, assimilate it, make sense of it as part of our, you know, our story of who we are.

So Christopher Bledsoe had an incredible, incredibly difficult time for about five years, because first of all, when he had his experience, he was actually cured of this debilitating disease, which had seen his business go under his family, almost, you know, everything was, was bad, bad, bad, because he wasn’t able to work anymore.

And you know, he, he was the lead guy in his construction business and all the rest of that. And then for the next five years, there was the trauma of coming to terms with the. Aspect of existence that the fundamentalists religious groups, for example, and I’m not talking, I’m just exiting example, do not accept.

They will only say, oh, it’s demons. Oh, it’s this it’s that? You know what nonsense? Sorry, what nonsense. Clearly these are other intelligences. They cured him. And they not only did that, but he has become an entirely different person. Somebody who is, um, I’m sure he wouldn’t mind me saying this even much more compassionate.

I’m not saying he wasn’t a compassionate man before. He he’s a big family man and all the rest of that, but he was a hunter, a Rutan two-ten shooting hunt up. And you know, one of the things that he was a well-known for in the area was shooting one of the biggest bears. Well, he said he could no more hurt a creature now than fly to the moon without having.

And, you know, so something in his heart has opened up something in his compassion and consciousness has opened up to understand that all life, um, has a reason and you know, it, it was massive. So the Chris Bledsoe story, he’s done quite a few interviews and it’s an incredible story. And I said, he’s in the Carolina’s wonderful, wonderful man.

And part of that five years of desolation, emotionally, and every other, which way was also because of society not accepting him, him being ridiculed, his children being ridiculed at school, and now that’s all different, but it was, it was a. Hellish difficult time. So please people do not ridicule people. If they tell you they’re an experiencer, if you don’t believe it, put it on the back burner and go, you know what you’re telling the wrong person, just leave them alone.

They’ve got enough. Definitely.

[00:48:22] jeremiah: So through all your research and everything and talking with different people and stuff, what is your, what is your take or your view on the whole E T and abduction phenomenon? Like what do you think? I mean, no one really knows, but what, what’s your takeaway from it? Like what, what do you think the abductions are about?


[00:48:45] Joanne: told him what seems to happen to everybody, whether they’re scared to death, of the whole experience or not whatever experience that is even sightings can change people’s lives. I mean, just that alone can be enough to, you know, fire somebody into that, another dimension of their life. If you think about it, logically one is people are out of the fear.

They’re into expensiveness of consciousness, of mind, they’re into, uh, a spiritual understanding. And I’m not talking about dogma. I’m not talking about Catholicism or fundamentalism or Islam or anything. Like I’m talking about a deep, inner, intuitive impulse that tells you that you’re a part of something greater bigger.

And there is more to this world then as you know, us sitting here and we are multi-dimensional. And I do think from my own experiences, as I’m in the regression, work in my own experiences during my training of, of those other lives, that we’re multifaceted and we’re not taught. We’re not taught anything of this aspect of our being.

So to get back to what is it all about? I think that we’re part of a huge community, and I think we’re quarantined at the moment because we are a warmongering, you know, the Brits and the Americans are very good at doing that. And I’m not saying other nations aren’t, but we certainly seem to lead and you know, that has to stop.

So, you know, something needs to switch in us as a collective that says normal no more. There’s another way. There’s a better way. And we can all benefit and we can all enjoy it. It’s not one-upmanship it’s, it’s not about having bigger toys. It’s about energies technology. And it’s about us being the best we can be through.

Say things like, I don’t know, you’ve heard of something called med beds. It’s about, you know, working with your frequency and you know, all illness, all people, everybody has a frequency. And if you say, for example, how to, uh, some issue with your liver, your liver would be giving off an ill liver frequency, and you can measure that you will have a tone.

Now I worked some years back with a guy called sir Peter Guy manners, who worked in a field called psychotics, which has to do with sound and frequency and, uh, around the body. And this is all part of my answer to your question. And when I asked him, you know, okay, the liver issue, somebody’s got to pull the lever.

I said, well, you know, everybody’s liver is going to be the same surely he said, yeah, there is a harmonic frequency of about. I’m somewhere, that person. So I, liver is a liver. Liver is not ever going to be a heart. So the liver has its own discrete frequencies, but within every body’s different body, it will have a harmonic gradient if you like, and you can pinpoint it.

And then once you see what is off with the liver, you can input that frequency and the liver will regenerate and recover the same for most diseases. You know, the way we look after ourselves is so archaic through the pharmaceutical world. I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s, it’s a dinosaur, you know, we need these frequency, medications and medicines, and that’s what a lot of the, um, the psychic surgeons even, and certainly the ETS seem to do if they’re doing healing.

Uh, I’m not saying they don’t use, uh, equipment, but there’s a lot of things that they can do, which are. Using the mind and train the mind to work with frequencies on health and wellbeing. So the takeaway from all of this is that it is challenging us to be more than this. What we’re told we are our education.

We’re much more than that. And, uh, it’s actually quite exciting and it’s not that you have to go banging drums about or anything. It’s just that you can really expand your worldview and your world around you. If you’re willing, if this all is nonsense to you, then you know, you’re going to stay well and truly planted in 3d for a while.

And that’s fine. That’s just, you know, the evolutionary path, but we can speed it up. It’s just about opening that and that the whole,

[00:53:13] jeremiah: yeah, I, I was just talking with someone the other day about like, there’s this theory, I guess you could call it going around where we’re at a tipping point where yeah. Our souls are trying to ascend to like five D I guess it’s called.

I think I

[00:53:34] Joanne: probably kind of crossing. I think we’re, we’re kind of in the middle of it.

[00:53:38] jeremiah: And I think you see a lot now, um, a lot more now than before people waking up and people questioning things and people and people like looking outside the box and, and not just taking everything at face value. And I think it might just be part of the whole, um,

[00:53:57] Joanne: process.

I think that’s, that’s definitely true. And you know, every time I’ve had something happen, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, it pushes the boundaries yet. Again, it just makes you think differently. And the quantum physics element is it, you know, this multi-dimensional totally regenerative ongoing, you know, roiling energy it’s that we can access.

You know, just if you go to remote viewing that kind of thing, you know, they can take their consciousness or we can take our consciousness to all these different places and times it just needs a little bit of a technique and sometimes people just do it because they’ve got a natural, uh, facility for that on board already.

So, and

[00:54:46] jeremiah: then, uh, and then, uh, I don’t know if you’ve seen it, um, over in Europe or whatever, but the us is starting to release saying, uh, UFO’s are real. And, uh, there’s definitely things that we don’t know what they are, but they’re there and it’s kind of like they’re disclosing quote unquote. Yeah. And

[00:55:09] Joanne: don’t think about it a little bit.

Yeah. You know, I mean, Well, you know, Hey ho good. You know, for some people that’s going to open their eyes for the rest of us, we’re going, oh yeah, we, yeah. Okay. Let’s, let’s get to the real stuff, but, uh, you know, the thing is it’s, it’s about a lot of it is, is about, you know, a very good marker of what it really means.

This information coming out is, is the trajectory that it’s going on now. What do you hear them saying? Oh, it’s a threat. Oh really? Okay. All right. More money for the ministry then. Is that it? Okay. Yeah, no stop timeout.

I don’t go with that.

[00:56:06] jeremiah: Yeah, I think that might be part of the reason why they haven’t, um, announced themselves yet partially due to the

[00:56:13] Joanne: hours that what’d you do with this load of folks that we often are.

[00:56:20] jeremiah: Right.

[00:56:22] Joanne: I mean, honestly, uh, you know, yeah, no, he’s like going into the lion’s den. Why would you put yourself in harm’s way?

Of course you wouldn’t of course they can, they can handle themselves. I know, listen, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that that every, a lot of ETS are, uh, you know, uh, angels or whatever. I don’t mean that, but it’s like us stepping up to a new level of maturity and it’s opening our hearts a lot more.

We’ve been taught to, uh, to close down, you know, And, and, you know, there is something to that, but there’s different ways of handling it and dealing with it. So the ITI thing is certainly I tell you what, it’s certainly a place where you have your mind open don’t if you want to be around it, then, you know, and, and you start drilling down to some of the detail about what’s really going on here.

Um, a lot of it is, is about our development as a species. And we’re not there yet, but, you know, as you said before, a lot of people are waking up, so that’s, that’s great. You know, that’s all good. And it’s just a bit slow for me, but I’m a bit impatient, but yeah. You know, I think some exciting things coming down the line and you know, of course we could have had this over a hundred years ago with the Tesla technology.

And I don’t mean Elon Musk. I mean, wireless technology globally, we could have had that we could have had. Bye now. So we’re a go to a hundred, hundred and 50 years behind. And most of the governments of the world are at least 50 years ahead, technologically, if not more. So that’s a

[00:58:01] jeremiah: fact it’s like the, um, very annoying.

It’s like, it’s like the guys who, uh, created like cars that runoff water and stuff. And then they ended up dead after the patent’s been bought or whatever the technology has been. It’s almost like the, it’s almost like the powers that be are trying to like keep us from


[00:58:23] Joanne: Oh yeah. Well, yeah, because it doesn’t bring them any money.

And of course it’s not all money either at the end of the day, it’s, it’s a lot more and there’s no reason why the shot. They shouldn’t be plenty for everybody. I mean, if you’re not paying for utilities, if you’re not paying for fuel, you know, if you can do all of that, which, which with a lot of the technologies that have been suppressed, you code, and then you have.

Funds for your enjoyment of life or building, you know, that would be great. You not, everybody wants to be a millionaire. Not everybody needs to be some people, you know, but you want to have enough without struggling. And there is more than enough that is, uh, it’s just not being, uh, dealt with correctly.

But I think we’re in those times when this is, uh, this is that threshold. I mean, we’ll see how long it’s going to take, you know, before the, uh, the negative, uh, warmongering lot, you know, get ousted or, uh, diverted in some way. I don’t know what that looks like, but, um, or

[00:59:29] jeremiah: in the worst case scenario, we, what herselves?

[00:59:33] Joanne: Well, we could it’s possibly, but I don’t, I didn’t feel that, you know, we’ve had too many ETS over, uh, nuclear facilities switching them on and off, but mainly off. You know, if, if they want to control that they will, that they, you know, the, the info down the pipe is that this planet is really important earth and they’re not going to let little humanity running around like a whole load of warmongering ants kick it.

But we’ll see, you know, if that guy came back as in a human form from a gray, having destroyed their own planet, you know, I’m sure we’re more than capable of bringing that to bear, but I don’t know. I think there’s something about our life and what we’re supposed to be doing the evolutionary of the planet evolution of a planet as well as a, as a sentient being in large scale.

So I don’t know, we don’t have the answers yet, but we can, we can put forward sort of ideas and suppositions based on history and where we think we’re going with that. Yeah,

[01:00:36] jeremiah: yeah. From the abductor, the accounts that I’ve heard, uh, and, and also read about, there seems to be a commonality. The ETS, tell the abductor that, you know, earth has a special place.

And, um, a lot of them are here to do something to either keep it going or, you know, keep us from destroying it or whatever. And that seems to be a common

[01:01:04] Joanne: message. Oh yeah. And, and quite a few people who who’ve had that, um, earth is, you know, likely to succumb to some terrible situation. If, if you don’t do something about it and I’m not talking about the climate change or the politics politicians, not that that’s not it at all, but, um, I mean, people like Jim sparks, one of your compatriots, he went and, you know, started doing something with a rainforest and other people have done other things to, uh, help support nature and the planet.

So everybody is inspired to do things, uh, you know, as, as in natural to them to, to do that is within them to be able to. It’s fascinating. It really is. And he asked you, right. A lot of people have had the gloom and doom scenario that, you know, if humanity continues like this, well, you know, we’ve only got to look at current scenarios, which has been, you know, manufactured very, uh, very well under the noses of everybody, um, to see that, yeah, it’s not difficult to see that that could end up in, uh, difficulties for the planet, but we’ll see, you know, I don’t, I don’t think honestly that, um, I think the planet is being saved before, and I don’t think they’re going to have a, let, let us with all runty humans do our worst, but we’ll see.

I don’t know. You know, I don’t have any inside scoop on that.

[01:02:33] jeremiah: Yeah. I personally believe that there’s cycles of time and there. This is my opinion that there have been, um, civilizations before our noon humanity and, uh, they’ve succumbed to cataclysms and stuff like that. And then survivors survivors of that start over again, basically.

[01:03:00] Joanne: And, oh, there’s definitely evidence of that as well. And I’m also, I also believe that, um, the collective also is very powerful and if the collective wishes it, then those catechisms could be, um, watered.

[01:03:22] jeremiah: Yeah. They say it like your speech and your thoughts and stuff can like actually like be recorded, like leaving your body and like, so it’s definitely, definitely something that if everyone’s thinking the same thing, like all the world.

Just blow up or something that like, it could actually bring that about in a roundabout way people, uh, or if they want to save the planet.

[01:03:49] Joanne: Yeah. Or if the majority of people who just want to be in the belligerent, um, you know, warmongering frame of mind if that’s where they’re going to stay then, and that becomes their meme and the meme of people in their society, around them or their, you know, whatever their, um, situation then, you know, that’s also very powerful, but there’s a lot of people countering it.

And I saw that, uh, and it was really impressed with the Canadian truckers. They were just phenomenal. I don’t know if you know what I mean, but it was great. They, uh, and they still are. There’s just not being reported, but you know, that is fantastic. And, and they just kept buying that it’s about love. Do not, do not threaten do not, you know, Keep it level, keep, keep love because they can’t get you on that.

And, you know, and, and that has been rolling out across the world in lots of different ways. And so there’s some amazing things happening. Um, you know, amazingly courageous people as well, stepping forward and taking the lead on a lot on lots of things. And, you know, because it’s like, there’s a take down of a human potential at the moment going on with the powers that be.

And, you know, I think we have the ability to stop that in its tracks. If we know enough say this far and no more, I’m one of those.

[01:05:20] jeremiah: Yeah. Hopefully, hopefully the massive amount of people or the majority of people, this is what I’m trying to say. Uh, hopefully they figure out, you know, That we have the power, like the governments and stuff.

They don’t really have the power. I mean, they have their laws and stuff, but

[01:05:40] Joanne: yeah,

[01:05:41] jeremiah: but like with the Canadian trucker thing, if truckers just say, we’re not going to deliver a ho you know, that gives me more power than if you go riding and stuff like that

[01:05:52] Joanne: in mind. Exactly. And you know, that there’s a lot of stuff, negative stuff that is preordained, you know, people have been set up to do it, all that kind of stuff.

So it’s all part of the theatrics as part of the optics, as they say. So, you know, it’s just to be aware, how does it feel? Does it feel real lightly? Not it’s feels contrived or lightly is. Yeah. Anyway, so, you know, it’s just onwards and upwards and just trying to enjoy your life and deal with things. And if it’s an ITI thing, well, you know, it’s looking at finding out what that is for you.

How does that change you? But cause that’s where it all brings us every time it’s, it’s us where the, where the magic particle.

[01:06:41] jeremiah: Yeah. And I think people have a lot more power than what they believe or think that they have. And we’ve also been conditioned to not tap into our own potential. So

[01:06:53] Joanne: that’s absolutely right.

And I think that’s, and a lot of people, you know, that they’re not used to thinking, um, differently, you know, there’s a tradition or a, you know, just way of thinking if you’re in a certain position or certain job and, you know, I mean, it is a bit scary to come out of that box. I understand that. I think. But anyway, we’re at that time when we have to be our own Jack in the box.

[01:07:24] jeremiah: So if people want to, um, check out your works or anything like that, um, how can they, well,

[01:07:32] Joanne: everybody wants to drop me a line. If they’ve had an experience or they want to go on camera and talk about their experiences. It’s the eating Just like all one word. The 18

The eating website is under construction. So, um, it should be up within the next, within the month. But I keep saying that we keep doing a bit more to it. I’m I’m on Facebook. I think it’s under Jones. Or some of it might be some scales there. I actually couldn’t fit my whole name on it initially when I did it.

And then anyway, so I’m on Facebook. If anybody wants to say hi and they had the chat, uh, or whatever. And, um, basically, um, that’s what I do is I tell people’s stories and look into it and see how we can, you know, make things work better and see if we can bring a little bit of relief from PTSD or trauma in the situations, because it, it, we do, we do have some incredible, uh, times ahead of us.

That can be wonderful. I really do really.

[01:08:38] jeremiah: Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you for coming on and speaking with us and sharing your information and I’ll make sure to link everything in the show description so people can find your stuff, uh,

[01:08:51] Joanne: quickly. Well, I, I tell you what people might find interesting is that this is, um, this is the ICI newsrooms, um, eclectic album spelled with a K and on this album, there’s a whole load of people, American Canadians, and Brits who have come together to they’re all experiences of one kind or another, and they are doing their music, but they’ve.

Had an amazing event and the album, isn’t just music. It’s part, voice as well. So some of the musicians you’ll care a minute or two of their story proceeding their song. So it’s fascinating to hear. And I do one or two interviews with people like grant Cameron and others talking about the ITI connection.

So that’s on the eclectic website, which is a Wix Wix website. And if you do a collective Joanne or collect your Wix website, you should come across it. But there’s a whole load of amazing information and also tasters for some of the music.

[01:09:52] jeremiah: Sounds great. Yeah. And if, uh, send me all those links, I’ll get them posted so people can.

People can find you quickly.

[01:10:02] Joanne: Yeah, that’s fine. Well, the time that’s great.