[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow Terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina Mountains. Welcome to the What If They’re Wrong podcast. The podcast that wants you to question everything. Your reality is about to be shattered.
Hello and welcome to the What If the Wrong Podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything. Join today by Michael Kreo. We’re gonna be talking about his works and research and talk about his books. We’re gonna be talking about the hidden history of the human race. And how he believes it goes back way further.
Than what, uh, is currently accepted and I tend to agree with him. So we’re gonna be talking about that. Hello, Michael. Hi.
[00:01:02] Michael: How’s it going? Oh, it’s going pretty, pretty well here. Yeah, it’s good to be with you, Jeremiah, and all your listeners and and viewers. Yes.
[00:01:13] Jeremiah: Thank you for coming on and, um, we’ll get started here.
Uh, I know you’re a big fan of India and you go there a lot. Um, what draws you to India?
[00:01:24] Michael: Well, uh, that has something to do with the way I was raised. My father was, uh, an intelligence officer in the United States Air Force, so that meant a few things for me as a kid growing up. One thing it meant is that we were moving around a lot to different places in the States and then also different places around the world like.
When I was a teenager, high school age, we were in Germany and once, uh, during, uh, school vacation, I think it was a spring vacation, I went with a friend. We went up to Stockholm in Sweden and I was staying in a youth hostel there. And I met some European kids a little bit older than me who had come over land to India and then returned a again over by traveling over land.
You could do that those days a little. More dangerous these days. But, uh, they told me about their visit to India, uh, the different places they went, the Ggi River, the Himalayan Mountains, um, meeting different kinds of yogis and sages and things like that. So I became, uh, fascinated with the idea of going there myself, which I eventually did.
And, uh, since then I’ve returned several times. But it’s actually the ancient Sanskrit writings of India that were a big inspiration for the work I’ve done in research and writing books like Forbidden Archeology and Hidden History of the Human Race. Because the historical writings of ancient India, they speak of a very ancient human presence on this planet going much further back in time than modern scientific theories allow.
So that’s what got me looking into the history of archeology. I was thinking, uh, is this idea that humans like us had been around for millions and millions of years on this planet, is that just some mythological idea that was invented by these ancient authors of these texts? Or was there possibly some physical evidence that would.
Be consistent with that idea of extreme human antiquity. And of course I didn’t find any such evidence in the current textbooks of archeology, but I decided to look further than the textbooks, go back to the original scientific reports. And when I did that, I found many reports by archeologists, geologists, other scientists digging into the earth, finding human bones, human artifacts, and human footprints going back many millions of years in some cases.
[00:05:02] Jeremiah: Yeah, it’s very interesting. And it’s interesting to me too cuz um, I think there is a lost, like lost civilizations and things that have kind of been like swept under the rug or the sands of time and. Uh, so I’m assuming you, uh, agree with that, that there has been other civilizations before, like what’s currently accepted?
[00:05:24] Michael: Yeah, I, I think in the long history of this planet, there have been periodic devastations that take place and they may even wipe out whatever civilizations were existing at, at, at that time. But I think the cosmos is arranged so that the resources for repopulating the earth and rebooting civilizations, you could say those resources are there on some level of reality.
And just like, you know, we have, we can store our songs and pictures and files on what they call the cloud. You know, some place like that so that if, uh, a, a device like a phone or a laptop or a tablet is destroyed or made inoperable, you can always reload your programs and files and everything back onto a new device, you know, so that the resources are there to do that.
So I think the cosmos is arranged like that as, as well. There are resources that will allow us, maybe not us, but allow the rebooting of human civilization, of the repopulation of the earth after these periodic devastations.
[00:06:59] Jeremiah: Yeah, I think that’s true and I think that we have evidence of that. And obviously you think so too, cuz you wrote a whole what, seven, 800 page book on it.
[00:07:11] Michael: Yeah, I didn’t think it was gonna be 700 pages, actually it’s 900 pages or nine. Yeah. Which is yeah. Causes some people to call the book Forbidding Archeology because you look at a 900 page book and you think, how am I gonna get into that? So for that reason, we brought out a, a shorter edition of the book called The Hidden History of the Human Race, and I was kind of surprised that the bigger book sells more than the shorter book, cuz it seems whoever’s interested in this topic wants every possible fact.
Don’t want to miss anything. So it’s pretty amazing.
[00:07:56] Jeremiah: Yeah. That’s how I am, like, I want to learn it all. If I’m into something, I want to know it all. And so I, I can see that.
[00:08:03] Michael: And I, I didn’t think originally that the book was going to be that long. I, I thought, well, maybe I’ll find a few interesting tidbits of information.
I’ll write a short article or pamphlet about it. Move on to some other question. But as I got into these cases, one led to another. I thought I might do, you know, eight weeks of research and maybe find a few interesting things. But the eight weeks turned into eight months, and the eight months turned into eight years, and the little publication turned into a 900 page book because one case just led to another.
And from that led to another. It was kind of like detective work, you could say. Yeah.
[00:08:58] Jeremiah: So how, uh, that was a question I was gonna ask too. How did you find all these, like out of place artifacts and stuff that you speak of in the book? Like they’re in like, layers of rock where they shouldn’t be com uh, according to our, like mainstream science.
[00:09:15] Michael: It, it becomes a, a question if these discoveries are mentioned by scientists and their original reports, then why aren’t they in the current textbooks? And I think that’s because of a process of knowledge filtration that operates in the world of science. Scientists and different scientific disciplines have what they call paradise, which means a way of understanding and looking at their topic and for deciding what’s relevant and what’s not relevant, what’s to be considered evidence, and what’s to be considered non-evidence.
So the way things work is that discoveries that radically contradict the dominant paradigm are kind of filtered out. They just aren’t talked about. They’re just set aside for further research somewhere down the line, or they’re just forgotten about, or, uh, in some cases actively suppressed. So, In forbidden archeology, I discuss all of those different ways of dealing with this, this evidence.
So yeah, generally speaking, they will say, well, the discoverer who reported these things must have made a mistake. It’s not really possible that some something human E, either a bone or a footprint or an artifact, would be found in a layer of rock, let’s say 50 million years old. As was the case in the California goldmine discoveries, they would say, uh, I mean Dr.
JD Whitney was uh, the chief government geologist of California and reports of discoveries of human bones in human artifacts, and the California goldmines came to his attention. In the mid 19th century, you know, the 1860s, seventies, you know, he investigated these discoveries and determined they were real and he wrote a, a massive report about them that was published by Harvard University.
It’s not mentioned in the textbooks today, and I’ve also documented. The scientific response to Dr. Whitney’s, California Goldmine Discoveries. There was a, a prominent American scientist, William Holmes, who worked with the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, and he said, uh, a report that he wrote, if Dr.
Whitney had understood the theory of human E. Uh, he, he wouldn’t have published that report. In other words, he would’ve known, it’s not really possible for humans like us to have existed 50 million years ago in those very ancient layers of rock. So he should have understood that he had made a mistake that somehow those human bones or human artifacts had maybe slipped down a fissure crack in the ground somewhere from some higher level to reach those very ancient layers of rock.
Or maybe he was the victim of a hoax. Somebody played a trick on him. You know, you can find all kinds of ways to explain an uncomfortable fact away. But I would say it, it’s not very scientific just to say it’s possible that this happened, or it’s possible that that happened. You have to actually show that in that particular place, there is a fissure that goes from some fairly recent layer of rock down to the location where the human artifact was found, and that there were artifacts of that type up in that higher layer.
And you know, you can’t just say, well, it’s possible that he was deceived. It’s possible he made a mistake. Possible the object could have slid down some crevice. It’s possible that there was some earthquake or movement that mixed things up, and he didn’t realize it. I mean, anything is possible. I mean, once one scientist, I was giving a lecture in Copenhagen, in Denmark, and there was an archeologist there, and he, after I went through some of the cases from Forbidden Archeology, he began raising these kinds of objections.
Well, it’s possible he was mistaken. It’s possible he was cheated. Possible the object could have slipped down. It’s possible there could have been an earth movement that mixed things up. I said, it’s possible that you’re a 3D holographic projection from Mars. You know, I mean, you can’t just invent things, possibilities, of course, anything is possible.
[00:15:00] Jeremiah: It’s like, I’m sure you’ve heard about, um, Gobekli Tepe and how they’re trying to like squander that away and say like, oh, well, you know, it’s. Then they attribute it to something, but we really don’t know what it, what it’s from or,
[00:15:14] Michael: yeah. Well that’s an interesting case there. That’s, um, the more recent end of alternative history having to do with, uh, how old civilization is because basically what they found at Go Beckley Tepe is an arrangement of very large stones, columns or panels with elaborate figures of human beings and different animals and plants carved onto them.
It’s sort of like a, a stone hinge type of arrangement with, but with, instead of just regular stones, the. The columns have figures carved on them. And normally, uh, archeologists would think that would have to be less than 10,000 years old because they think that before 10,000 years ago, people weren’t living in settled villages and doing farming and things like that.
And, you know, making elaborate stone buildings and monuments, they would say before 10,000 years ago, people were just hunters and gatherers kind of wandering around in different little small groups. Tribes, uh, just living off the land, whatever they could catch or whatever they may be able to gather from wild plants.
So, uh, Gobek, Tepe was dated as being about 13,000 years old, so of course that’s in place in Turkey today. You know, it’s, that’s, it’s within the boundaries of Turkey now. So that’s an example of something that contradicted the mainstream views about the origins of civilization, whereas I’m dealing mainly.
The origin of our species, you know, anatomically modern humans. Most scientists today would say that humans like us first came into existence less than 300,000 years ago. But I document many discoveries showing humans existed far before that.
[00:17:53] Jeremiah: So what do you think happened, like, you said something about, uh, global devastations and stuff like that.
Like do you think that’s like a reoccurring thing? Like kind of we have like time cycles I’ve heard and, and or like there’s, I don’t wanna say planned, but cataclysms and people just have to reboot kind of, so to speak.
[00:18:14] Michael: you know, it’s, it’s kind of interesting. Modern science talks about six major extinction events that have occurred and.
The history of life on Earth over the past billion years or so. And the last one was the one they say wiped out the dinosaurs. Uh, you know, they say, uh, an asteroid or comment or big meteor struck the earth, uh, created atmospheric changes that resulted in the extinction of the dinosaurs and many other species as well.
And then before that, there was another mass extinction event that wiped out most of the living forms on earth. And yeah, so it’s happens periodically, like I said, six times over the last billion years or. Now it’s interesting. According to the Piranas, the historical writings of Ancient India, time goes in cycles.
They’re kind of cycles within cycles, within cycles, but one unit of time, one of the bigger cycles, cosmic cycles, it’s called the Culpa or the Day of Broma. It lasts for 4,320 million years. It’s divided into 14 sub cycles called Manar. Each one lasting a little over 300 million years. They say according to the Beic cosmological calendar that we’re in the seventh maar of the current culpa or day of bra.
And they say that between each veta period, between each of the 14 veta periods, there is a devastation that wipes out life on earth. So it’s kind of interesting. There’s some parallel. If if we’re in the seventh Moar, then that means there have been six before us. And between each of them there was a devastation.
That means six devastations. And modern science talks about over roughly the same period of time between uh, one and 2 billion years, there have been six major extinction events. So six devastations, six major extinction events. So apparently these catastrophes do happen in a cyclical way, in a periodic way.
And, and we find information, uh, about that in many ancient wisdom traditions like the Greeks. There’s a Greek, uh, philosopher who went to Egypt and he was talking with the Egyptian priest at Thieves, I think it was. Uh, they asked him, The Egyptian priest asked the, the Greek philosopher, what is the history of, of your people?
And he described how there had been a previous human population that had gotten wiped out during a great flood. And after that there was, uh, another first couple male and female, duke Kelly and I think was the name of the man, I forget the name of the woman that they repopulated the earth. He said, that’s history as we understand it.
And the Egyptian priest told him, this is in, uh, one of the works of Plato, you know, his Socratic dialogues, but it’s, uh, They told them that’s partial history of your country, of your people. Because there were, before the first group of people, there was another devastation and there was another civilization before that.
And it also was devastated. You know, so your history actually goes back much further than you think. You’re just aware of what happened after the last devastation. But in our records that we have here, we have your history going back through many devastations stations. So it’s a kind of a common, common idea.
It, it can be found in the ancient wisdom traditions. It can also be found in, uh, modern scientific evidence from paleontology and geology. And
[00:23:42] Jeremiah: do you think, uh, any of that can be tied in with like the fable of Atlantis and Mu and all those other things?
[00:23:52] Michael: Well, those, those, uh,
[00:23:55] Jeremiah: or is that mo too
[00:23:56] Michael: modern? Those legends are, well, I, I think, uh, there are many accounts in the world’s wisdom traditions of places with a high level of civilization or technological development that were lost and went under the, the ocean or some other body of water.
You know, of course it’s there in Plato. It’s there in the idea of a lost continent in the Pacific Moo. And it’s also there in a accounts in South India of a land called Kumari condom. Which was an extension of the present, uh, subcontinent of India out into the what’s now ocean. So, uh, you also find it in the accounts, the VAD accounts of the city of dca, which was a fabulous city, uh, ruled by, uh, Krishna was, uh, God in, in these accounts.
And his city went under the water and archeologists had gone to that location and made, uh, expeditions out into the ocean off the coast of the present city of der, uh, in Northwestern India. And they have found remains of an ancient city and just among archeologists in general. They understand that over the past thousands of years during the ice ages, a lot of the water and the earth’s oceans was put on land in the form of huge ice accumulations glaciers.
But several miles thick layers of ice expanded over much of the northern and southern hemispheres. So when that water started melting, yeah, the sea levels started going up. And this has covered many inhabited areas. So marine archeology is becoming a big thing in archeology cuz they understand that well, yeah, there were human settlements in places that are now covered by deep ocean water.
Or in the Black Sea area or other, uh, bodies of water. There was an interesting case some years ago where some Canadian researchers found off the western tip of Cuba, what appeared to be the remains of a city, a couple thousand feet deep in the Caribbean sea. They proposed it is the remains of an ancient city.
But some scientists pointed out that even during the time of lowered sea levels, that location would still have been deep underwater. Even if the sea levels were three or 400 feet less than they are today, still, the place where that city was would’ve been under over a thousand feet of water. But then I thought, now they didn’t go back any further than that because they think, well, human beings wouldn’t have existed before that.
But I thought, well, when was that part of what’s now the Caribbean or the Gulf of Mexico, I should say that part. That’s where this, the remains of this city were found. When would that have been dry land? And I started looking into the history, the geological history of that region, and it turns out that during the Triassic period, which is the age of the dinosaurs, that part of the Gulf of Mexico would’ve been dry land.
So we might take it that there’s evidence for a human presence going back to the age of the dinosaurs.
[00:28:34] Jeremiah: Yeah. I have seen a few artifacts and like paintings and stuff that looks like the people knew about dinosaurs and there’s pictures of people with dinosaurs and stuff like that, and it’s like, why would they make that thousands of years back?
[00:28:53] Michael: I mean, I think ultimately, The reason, one of the reasons why I would expect to find evidence for a human presence going so far back in time, really almost back to the very beginnings of the history of life on Earth, is I get the impression that the universe actually has a purpose. It’s not just an accident.
And I think one of the features of the universe that is often overlooked is that there’s consciousness in the universe. I’m conscious. You’re conscious. We assume others are not just AI robots, that they’re also conscious, intelligent individual persons. And. The universe actually appears to be structured for the existence of conscious, intelligent beings in it.
So that suggests to me that it has some purpose and that that purpose is best carried out in the human form of life. You know, we’re talking about these things. Uh, it’s not, and the people who are listening, they are conscious human beings or, or watching. Uh, so we don’t see that the dogs and the cats and the birds are coming to talk about these things and try to understand them.
So, I think the, the actual purpose of the universe is to allow conscious cells, which we are in human bodies, to qualify themselves, to ascend to a higher level of reality. We’re now individual conscious beings in the world of matter and matter imposes some limitations on us, like I’m now in a body, native chemical elements, calcium, phosphorus, iron.
There’s a lot of different elements and a lot of water in this, uh, physical body that I have, but my conscious self is something different from that. This body made of matter. It had a beginning. Will have an end. It wasn’t in existence at some point. And, and at some point it, it won’t be in existence anymore.
But consciousness, I believe, is something different than that. It’s today. Many scientists would say consciousness is produced by chemicals in the brain. I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that matter creates consciousness, and that consciousness is just a, a temporary phenomenon. As soon as the chemicals in the brain become disorganized at the time of death, many people would say, well, that’s the end of consciousness.
It won’t exist anymore. I don’t accept that. I think consciousness has its own independent existence and that the source of it is some higher level of reality, which is where we really belong. So do you think
[00:32:36] Jeremiah: we’re like, um, do you think, you hear a lot of people talk about like, Hey, we chose this life that and this time and this person that we’re in.
Do you, do you think that’s the case, or do you think it’s kind of like, um, I don’t know, like you’re just sent here? Well, to experience this reality,
[00:32:54] Michael: it, it may be a combination of those things. It may be that, um, depends upon. What one considers to be the source. I think the source of me and all other conscious entities is also a conscious personal, individual source, but is more powerful.
You could say. Were like sparks from a fire. It’s kind of
[00:33:29] Jeremiah: like the saying of like, um, we’re all parts of God. Yeah. Like experiencing this reality, but then we’ve returned back to
[00:33:38] Michael: that. Yeah. Well, it depends, you know, say if there’s a, a spark that stays close to the fire, it retains its fiery quality. If a spark drifts too far away from the source, it loses its fiery quality.
So I think we’re part of God. But we have the freedom to either move closer to God or further from God, and depending upon the choices that we each make, we get that certain result. So there are, I would say, two choices for every conscious self that finds itself in the world of matter rather than the world of pure consciousness or spirit.
One is to become more and more deeply entangled and trying to enjoy control, dominate, and exploit the resources of matter in competition with others who are trying to do the same thing. Or you can make the choice of understanding. I am a being of pure consciousness. I’m ultimately a spiritual being with a connection with God and let me satisfy my material needs in the most simple, natural, fair, and equitable way possible.
And put most of my energy into developing my connection with my source. And, you know, not divide ourselves into so many competing groups. You know, it’s like, uh, so much ego. Yeah, yeah. Selfishness, you could say. And depending upon the choices people make, we get a certain type of world.
[00:35:45] Jeremiah: Yeah. And it’s like, um, we go, going back to the cycles of time part, it’s like you’ll hear it from many sources like the, uh, remember the Mayan and the 2012 may calendar and stuff, and people thought it was like, uh, definitely
[00:36:01] Michael: do.
[00:36:02] Jeremiah: And people thought it was like the end of the world, but then other people are like, it’s just a, a start of a new time cycle. Yeah.
[00:36:10] Michael: Or a new era. Actually, I remember in December of 2012, I was on a cruise ship where I was a speaker and I was talking about how the Mayan calendar relates to calendars of other ancient civilizations, including the BIC civilization.
And, uh, I more or less concluded that it’s not gonna be the end of the world. You know, in December, 2012, and actually before that, before I went on that cruise ship, we, we went to a place called Chia in, uh, the Yucatan region of, of Mexico. And, you know, spoke to some Mayan elders there. You know, it was really a fascinating trip.
I remember. But before going on that cruise and where I was a speaker in December, 2012, I was on, uh, a lecture tour of universities in India. And one question I would always get from the students was, is, is uh, the world going to end? In 2000 December of 2012? Yeah, this would be kind of like in, in the fall, early fall, maybe September, early October of, of 2012.
And I, cuz what had happened is they had been seeing this movie 2012 that was all over the web and the advertisements for it kind of showed this huge tsunami wave washing over the whole subcontinent of India and lapping at the feet of a sage Buddhist kind of monk, uh, up in the Himalayan Mountains. So they had seen those.
Pictures or clips from the film and they were all worried about it. But, uh, based on my understanding of the time cycles of India that I was speaking about earlier, according to that, were not due for, uh, a huge devastation until the end of the current manar period. As I said, at the end of each manar there’s a huge devastation that basically wipes out life on earth.
But, uh, that’s in about 180 million years from now. So I told, I would tell the students, you can register for next semester’s classes. Yeah, cuz the world isn’t going to end in December of 2012, as some people were saying. And Hollywood was promoting. So it’s an interesting time. Yeah, I
[00:39:21] Jeremiah: remember that. I remember people going crazy, like quitting their jobs and it was like, people, nothing’s gonna happen.
[00:39:30] Michael: Well, I guess there were two, like you said, there were two ideas being promoted. You know it, it is going to happen in December, and others were saying no, it’ll just be the beginning of a new cycle. And I was saying it’s gonna happen. It is going to happen, but not this year. Quite some time in the future. I think it, it definitely will happen as it’s happened in the past.
[00:40:00] Jeremiah: How do you think the, like we find the ho hoed skeletons and stuff like that, like the proto humans and stuff like that. Do you think they were like from the previous, uh, before the previous
[00:40:11] Michael: cataclysm? Well, what I think is if you actually look at all the evidence, what you find is a picture of coexistence of humans like us, what you call proto humans, kind of eight men type creatures, and then third regular apes and monkeys.
I think that in the past, all three coexisted together, it’s not that one came from the other. And even in modern times, we find that there are researchers who look into the continued existence of proto humans. Yeah. They call them Bigfoot or Sasquatch or Yeti, depending upon what part of the world we’re talking about.
And you know, so it appears that if you really consider all of the evidence, then all three of these types of creatures, humans like us, proto humans or hominin of various types and ordinary apes and monkeys have always coexisted with each other on this planet. And they are apparently coexisting with each other even today.
[00:41:32] Jeremiah: Yeah, I’ve heard that as well. Um, I don’t know if you know of Lloyd Pie. But I’ve read in his book
[00:41:38] Michael: too. Yeah. I guess he’d be very happy today that LSU women’s basketball team won the championship. But, uh, I, I know Lloyd, he was from Louisiana. I, we spoke at yeah, for some time Anyways, we were, we would run into each other at different conferences that we were both speaking.
So I know he had his star child skull that he was trying to show was, uh, a hybrid between a terrestrial mother or something, or an extraterrestrial father or vice versa. I, I don’t remember exactly which was the terrestrial, the mother of the father. But he had been trying to get some DNA studies done that would demonstrate that.
But I, I kind of lost track of it at that point. Cause he left this world so some years ago and I don’t know what the final result of those DNA studies that he commissioned were.
[00:42:54] Jeremiah: Yeah, I know he was really big into like the HO study and proto humans and stuff like that. And the bigfoot obviously.
[00:43:03] Michael: Yeah, it’s interesting, the Vedic tech speak of 400,000 humanlike species scattered throughout the entire universe, so that adds an extra dimension to the whole thing.
[00:43:22] Jeremiah: It would be kind of creepy and awesome at the same time to like show up on another planet and there’s people like us just like hanging out and we’re like, Hey, you’re just like us. Or maybe they’re better than us. Who knows? Yeah. Like we have a lot of carnal urges and obviously we have our bad apples and our greed and corruption and all that stuff.
[00:43:47] Michael: Yeah. Well, you know, there are different levels. We’re on a certain level. There are beings apparently of a higher nature. There are some of a lower nature and sometimes they battle for control of this Earth, earth region, you know, so that that can get,
[00:44:16] Jeremiah: uh, so what’s your thought on the whole, like, alien phenomenon too?
Well, before we wrap it up? Yeah.
[00:44:24] Michael: Well, the way I look at it is we have to understand what we really are. You know, who are we really? And some scientists will say, we’re just machines made of molecules on this planet, and that’s all we are. But I think beyond that, that’s part of what we are at the present moment.
But beyond that, there’s this conscious self, which is totally non-material. And it’s origin, and that’s the real self. You know, just like you know, you have a driver in a car or a pilot of an airplane or a captain of a ship, you know there’s a vehicle, but there’s a driver who’s different than the vehicle.
It has different needs. Like people who drive a car, you have to take care of your car, give it gas, oil, whatever it needs to function. But you as the driver are different. When you get to your destination, you get out of the car and go and eat maybe what you need to eat to keep going, you’re different than the vehicle that you occupy.
So the way I look at it is, This human body is a vehicle that I, the conscious self am occupying and I have to take care of the vehicle, feed it, repair it, so on. But myself, I’m different from it. So that the real self is the conscious individual personality. And that has an origin, not from this terrestrial level of reality, but from, it has its origin and a higher level of reality that I would call the realm of pure conscious.
And in that sense, all of us are extraterrestrials, you know, the, the materials for our vehicles that we’re now situated in. They’re from this level of reality, the world of matter, but the conscious self, the individual personality is non-material and it’s from some other level of reality. So in that sense, I would say we’re all extraterrestrials.
[00:47:05] Jeremiah: Yeah, true. And um, I’ve studied near death experiences and stuff, and they’re interesting as well. People that claim to see the other side and come back and. Yeah, they talk about the different things that they encounter.
[00:47:20] Michael: Yeah. I think the out-of-body experiences or near death experiences are very suggestive of the idea that the conscious self can exist outside of the material body and or the brain even.
I mean, some of them are, some of the near death experiences are of the journey type, uh, that I think you were alluding to, and some of them were, are more eyes like a person who is being resuscitated from a heart attack, for example. Their heart is stopped beating blood has stopped flowing to the brain.
You know, medical instruments show that the brain waves have flattened out. Technically they’re considered to be by some definitions dead, certainly not conscious yet. Many people in that situation have reported separating from their bodies and they look down and they’re able to see and hear what the doctors and nurses trying to revive them in the ER are, are doing.
And you know, there have been some physicians who have carefully studied this. One of them was, uh, Michael Saban, who was a cardiologist, and he decided to try to test these, these people. Like, uh, when somebody goes into the ER or gets a, an operation like that, they keep very careful records of exactly what’s been done because.
First of all, they have to build the person or build their insurance company. So they have to have everything recorded what they did, and also to protect themselves from insurance, medical, insurance suits and things like that. You know, they have to keep very good records. So what Dr. Saban decided to do was take some people who had reported these out-of-body experiences and then have them, you know, interview them, get all the details from what they could recall of their experience of being outside their body and looking down and seeing and hearing the doctors and nurses, and then compare what they say to their actual medical records, the detailed versions of which they don’t see, you know, they may get a bill or something that.
Basically lays it up. They don’t get the whole record. So he compared what they reported to what was actually recorded in their medical records, and he found they matched no major mistakes and there’s no way for them to know that. Yeah. And to kind of tests, if you know, you could just invent a story and you just get lucky and hit it.
He had another, he took another group of people who had not reported these out-of-body experiences and asked them just to imagine what they think the doctors and nurses were doing and saying, and he found none of them got it. Right. So he kinda took the results of his research as kind of a confirming.
The idea that the conscious self can temporarily separate from the brain, from the body, view it from a perspective outside, and then of course re-enter return to the living, so to speak. Yeah. It’s
[00:51:20] Jeremiah: very interesting and I totally believe that it’s true. And I think that our brains are more of a receiver instead of a conductor.
Yeah. Uh, I think that we receive messages and I think that explains that like, um, universal consciousness thing that people say you can tap into if you like, know how to, and I think people like Tesla and um, Einstein and stuff like that probably had some type of channel into that. Yeah.
[00:51:55] Michael: Another source of evidence is reincarnation memories.
You know, there, there have been researchers who have heard accounts from mostly young children in different countries who will report to their parents, say their parents, oh, I was somebody else in my past life. AndI, you know, they would start telling about their life in some other town or village. You know, the parents would go to a doctor and say, what’s, what’s going on here with my child?
And, and there have been researchers who have collected these cases and really, Done in-depth studies where they’ll interview the child and get all the details possible of what they recall from their past life. Then they’ll try to see if there is someone who matches that description given by the child.
And in some cases, uh, they’ve taken the child to the location where they say they previously lived, even though they’ve never been there in this life ever. They’ll be able to, the child will be able to lead the researchers through the different streets and things to the house of the person that they were in the previous life and identify their relatives.
Uh, Inform the researchers. Well, if you go to the room of this person and open the trunk, you’ll find a dress or something that they describe exactly. And they go and look. And it really is, you know, so, uh, there are researchers past and present who have looked into this. One of the pioneers in this kind of research was Dr.
Ian Stevenson of, uh, the psychiatry department at the University of Virginia Medical School. And he was the, kind of like a pioneer in this research. He just, he published extensive reports of verified memories of past lives, mostly by young children. Yeah, it’s
[00:54:38] Jeremiah: all very interesting to me personally, I think.
There’s so much there that it’s kind of hard to deny that these people have had these experiences, even though like mainstream wants to say they’re just crazy or whatever.
[00:54:53] Michael: Yeah. I mean, ultimately everyone has to make up their own minds about these things, but one really looks into the matter without limiting oneself to the current scientific consensus about something.
I think one can find plenty of evidence that’s consistent with these phenomena. Kind of talk about this whole topic in my book, human Evolution, A Beic Alternative to Darwin’s Theory. Cause I think there is an evolution of consciousness, not of physical bodies, but uh, you know, there can be an evolution of the conscious self or the soul.
Moving through different kinds of bodies until it gets to the human form where it has an opportunity to get out of that cycle of births and deaths and many different kinds of bodily vehicles and go to the level of pure consciousness where the conscious self is eternal. It’s not subject to the destructive force of time.
[00:56:13] Jeremiah: Yeah, I totally agree. I think, uh, the best thing for people to do is come at it with open mind, and it’s part of the reason I had started this podcast was to just have people question things. Like, I’m not trying to push an agenda down your throat or anything. I’m just presenting information and you know, it’s up to you to decide what you want to take from it and stuff like that.
So I think. If we had more people come at things with an open mind, uh, it would be much better. Because you kind of, when you come at it like, oh no, that’s not right, and right off the bat, then you don’t leave any possibility for anything extra.
[00:56:54] Michael: Yeah. But my personal approach is I present what I’ve learned and I leave it up to the individual how they’re going to relate to that.
Uh, if, uh, they happen to agree with me, fine. If after listening to me somebody says, very interesting, but I’m not persuaded, you know, I respect that. I respect actually the right of each individual to make up their own mind about these things. What I have a problem with, Is if somebody uses some governmental or bureaucratic kind of machinery to compel others to accept their point of view, I’m not in favor of that.
So sometimes I think there’s a tendency to do that in the world of science when it gets involved with government. And although you could say the majority of today’s scientists favor, you know this idea, but there’s always a minority who have different ideas. And what tends to happen is that the people with the majority view, they use their influence to get a monopoly in the education system.
So that only their view is presented and no other views are presented, and that doesn’t really reflect the realities of the situation because yes, say the Darwinian theory of evolution, we could say today, most scientists accept it. Let’s just invent, uh, a number, 95%, let’s say. But there’s another 5% who have different ideas.
Maybe they’re intelligent design theorists, or maybe they’re, uh, they have some non Darwinian type of evolution that they’re into. Or maybe they’re like me, but they exist. And you know, I, I think the proper solution would be. Give 95% of the textbook pages in biology to the majority group and 95% of the classroom time.
And here I’m talking about public tax supported schools. Not private schools, you know, things like that, but things, schools that are taking money from everybody and using it to teach things that may not necessarily fit with the worldview of the people who are paying for it, you know? So I think, uh uh, a better way to go rather than giving one group even a majority, a monopoly, complete monopoly and excluding all the other views, is give.
The majority group, as I said, 95% of the pages, but give the alternative groups 5% of the pages of the textbook gonna say, most scientists believe this, but the textbook will say, but there are some who have other ideas and for this reason or that reason, and then let students make up their own minds about it.
You know what, I think if that were done, I think we’d gradually see some shift in the percentages.
[01:00:57] Jeremiah: Yeah, I think so. And I think, I think we are actually starting to see a shift and cause of shows like Ancient Aliens and Graham Hancock’s new uh, series on Netflix and yeah, I think more people are starting to question what’s going on.
[01:01:14] Michael: Yeah, fortunately it’s possible to get information from sources other than the official ones.
[01:01:23] Jeremiah: Yes. So if, uh, people want to get ahold of your works, your books and stuff like that, how can they best go about doing that? Well, or if they want to get ahold of you or
[01:01:33] Michael: whatever. Well, if, if anybody’s interested, April 21st through the 23rd, I’ll be speaking about my work at the Portal to Ascension Conference in San Diego, California.
So if anybody’s from that area or wants to go, I’ll be there during that time. April 21st, the 23rd, and then on the 24th, the day after the conference, I’ll be giving a. Workshop. In other words, a more extended presentation with more opportunities for interacting with those who attend. So that’ll be going on on the 24th.
For information about that, uh, go to my website, m cremo.com, and that’s M C R E M o.com. Anhere’s a schedule link that has upcoming events, upcoming conferences and lectures that’ll be presenting. And then there’s also a, a sche, uh, an interview link that people could go to and they could learn about upcoming media presentations like this podcast or, uh, other, other such things.
And then, My books are also available through the website. Uh, it’s a good place to learn about, you know, the books and what’s in them. So that would be the place to start. I also have a Facebook page, uh, it’s called Michael Kreo. It’s really me, and they could follow that. It’s a public figure page. Um, so those are some ways.
There’s also a, a mail drop on my website where they can, where anyone could write to me, and I try to get back to all of my correspondence. Sometimes I may not be able to. As long of letters I would like, but uh, I do try to be responsive to correspondence.
[01:04:00] Jeremiah: Yeah, that sounds good. And I’ll make sure to link everything in the description of the show so whoever’s listening can just find it really quick and easy and, um, hopefully they’ll, you know, pick it up and hopefully someone will attend your uh, well, I’m sure tons of people will attend, but I mean, listeners will attend your conference and, um, I’m sure that’s gonna be a blast and probably a lot of bright minds there presenting stuff and uh, it’ll be a good
[01:04:29] Michael: time.
Yeah. Yeah, I speak at all kinds of events. I have a lot of different audiences. You know, there’s a kind of a university and scientific audience that I have, and then a general, general public audience, and then people who are interested in alternative phenomena. That’s another one of my audiences. And I try to stay in touch with a lot of different groups because I think we’re in the process of renegotiating our whole picture of reality.
You know, trying to get better answers to the questions. Who am I? Where am I, where should I be going? Uh, you know, I, I think we’re struggling to negotiate new answers to those questions and a lot of different parties. Are there for that renegotiation and I try to stay in touch with all of them.
[01:05:36] Jeremiah: Yeah, that’s great.
And um, I just want to thank you for coming on and speaking with us and having a good conversation about history of humankind and our souls per so to say like, uh, what this life is about and covering all that stuff. And I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you
[01:05:58] Michael: for coming on. Okay. Thank you for inviting me and thank you for the great conversational.