Roswell 1947 Tom Carey
[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow Terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in
the Carolina Mountains. Welcome
to the What If They’re Wrong. Podcast.
The podcast that wants you to
question everything. Your reality is about to be shattered.
Hello and welcome to the What If the Wrong Podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything. I’m joined today by Tom Carey and we’re gonna be talking about the Roswell incident in 1947 and, uh, all his other stuff. He’s a famous author of books about Roswell Area 51 UFOs, all that good stuff that we love.
So I’ll introduce him now. Hello Tom
[00:00:58] Tom: Jeremiah. Yes. Uh, how are you? I’m good. How are you? All right. And where are you? I
[00:01:05] Jeremiah: am located in North Carolina. All
[00:01:08] Tom: right. I’m by Charlotte . Right. Works for me. And where are you located? I’m in a little township called Huntington Valley, Pennsylvania. Uh, just outside of Philadelphia.
Yeah, I know the
[00:01:22] Jeremiah: area. I lived in Lancaster, Pennsylvania for a while.
[00:01:26] Tom: My, uh, daughter went to Millers. Oh yeah,
[00:01:29] Jeremiah: my brother did too. ?
[00:01:31] Tom: Yes. Uh, she graduated Marauders. Yeah. The marauders. Yep. Yeah. .
[00:01:36] Jeremiah: So yeah, we’ll, uh, get to it here. Sorry about the techn technical difficulties a moment
[00:01:42] Tom: ago, but, um, I was just about, I was just about to give up.
[00:01:46] Jeremiah: Yeah, I’m glad you didn’t cuz uh, your information is definitely, uh, well received here and, uh, I can’t wait to hear about it. So take us back to 1947, July and. What transpired for anyone who might not know the whole story, and you can go by the main narrative or your
[00:02:06] Tom: narrative, whatever. I try to, my trouble, or my only problem with the Roswell is, uh, that I know so many little details and factoids.
Synthesizing it into a quick, uh, overview is very difficult for me, but I will give it a try. Uh, back in 1947, it was the summer of 1947 and, uh, world War II was over for two years. The, uh, country is, uh, trying to get back into a postwar, uh, scenario. But in the summer of 1947, something called flying saucers burst onto the scene.
Out of nowhere, people started seeing these strange things in the sky that, uh, One, uh, reporter dubbed, uh, as, uh, flying saucers because, uh, the first reported case of such a craft or phenomenon was, uh, the j Kenneth Arnold Sighting in June, June 24th, 1947, where he described what he saw near Mount Rainier and Washington State as a saucer, skipping across a pond and.
Reporter dubbed it, ah, flying Saucers, and it stuck until the present day. Well, anyway, two weeks after that, there’s this big headline that goes around the world. R A A F Captures Flying Saucer Near Roswell. Well, people didn’t know what the R A A F was. They thought it was. Well, is that the Royal Air Air Air Force or is that the Royal Australian Air Force?
No, it’s Roswell Army Airfield, which most people never heard of. And, uh, Roswell was home to the five oh ninth bomb group that ended World War II by dropping. Two atomic bombs on Japan. That was the five oh ninth bomb group, was based at Roswell. Roswell Army Airfield. Well, they had, uh, gotten a report from a rancher who had found some strange debris on his ranch on the morning of July 3rd, 1947.
He found this strange debris the night before. Thunderstorm. He heard a strange muffled explosion that he couldn’t explain. He didn’t think anything of it. Well, the next day he finds all this strange wreckage, so he goes into Roswell to report it to the sheriff and the sheriff, and he took, uh, two boxes of this stuff with him.
And, uh, the sheriff didn’t know what to make out of it either. What is this stuff? Uh, you bend it up and do all it, and it springs back into position. You can’t cut it with a, a pair of scissors or a knife. You can’t do anything to it. And other pieces were, uh, uh, you couldn’t even bend them. And they were like thin aluminum like you would get in a, uh, Wrigley’s.
Spearman gum, something like that, the tin foil. And nobody didn’t know what to make out of it. So the sheriff suggested that they called the air base because it sounds like whatever that was came from the sky. And that’s the purview of the Air Force. So they called the Air Force base south of town and they sent the, the head intelligence officer from the base out to the sheriff’s office.
He didn’t know what to make out of it. So he took a box of it back to his commanding officer at the base of Colonel William Blanchard. Blanchard didn’t know what to make out of this stuff either. He said, look, uh, and their first concern was that it was a Russian device of some sort that had crashed or exploded or something.
They were concerned that it was Russian. He says, take. Take whoever you want and go out, follow this rancher out to his ranch, see what that stuff is. So, uh, Brazel, uh, the rancher named Mack Brazel takes, uh, the uh, uh, major Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer and the counterintelligence officer, captain shirt and cav out to the ranch.
And there’s a big field about a mile. By a couple hundred feet wide, full of these strange little pieces of metal. And, uh, they, it’s the same type of stuff. And some of the pieces had strange writing on it. So, uh, they gather the stuff up, go back to the base. And, uh, in the meantime, the, the commanding officer had contacted higher headquarters and they sent a box of this stuff the same day.
This would be, uh, July 6th, 1940 Washington. They didn’t, you know, uh, they didn’t know what that stuff, they knew it wasn’t ours. That would, was the concern. The first concern was that it was Russian. It wasn’t Russian. The next concern was that was, is it some special project we have? Nope, nope, nope. We don’t have that.
So, um, so began the, the famous Roswell story with that headline that around the world, they had concluded that it was one of these flying saucer things that people were reporting and, uh, they had also recovered at another site to remain the rest of the. Which contained bodies, little bodies, about three and a half to four feet tall.
So they with big heads and uh, they were definitely weren’t human. The conclusion was it was from off the planet. Excuse me, they sent out this press release and there’s the debate today. Was that a mistake or was that a plan? And there’s all sorts of debate when that, that first press story of capturing a flying sauce.
Still debated today, whether that was a local faux paw by the, the base intelligence officer, or it was a plan to, uh, to pull the rug out, uh, later on. That’s to say everybody was, uh, uh, mis uh, they mis misidentified a weather balloon. So, uh, that’s how the story began. Uh, a day or two later, they, they put out a press release that, oh, wasn’t a spaceship after all folks, sorry for the, sorry for all the excitement.
It was a weather balloon and the story died. That was it. It was a two day story flying saucer. Nope. Weather balloon. And the story died for, uh, from 1947 to 1978 for 31 years. Dang. It was resurrected in 1978 when the base intelligence officer, major Marcel went public. He knew he was dying from emphysema.
He said, Hey folks, that was a flying saucer that I handled back in 1947, and so began the, the. Civilian investigation of the Roswell case exactly what happened, and I know I’ve been on the case for 31 years. Stanton Friedman, uh, passed away a couple years ago. He started the case in 78 by interviewing Jesse Marcel.
He picked it up and. I got involved, like I said, 31 years ago with the, uh, investigative team of Kevin Randall and Don Schmidt, and since 1970, I’m sorry, since 1998, Don Schmidt and I carried on the investigation to the present day, and that’s basically the case. There’s no doubt in my mind that it was a UFO that had crash.
Uh, it, it actually, it didn’t crash. It was it, it blew up either by an internal explosion. Or a lightning strike or radar or something caused it to explode near the town of Corona, New Mexico. But all the debris, debris came down on this ranch, and the rancher went into Roswell, not into Corona, and that’s why it’s the Roswell case and not the Corona case because the rancher took it all to Roswell and the Roswell Army airfield did the.
So that’s why it’s the Roswell incident, not the Corona incident. But, uh, there’s no doubt in my mind, uh uh, Don Schmidt and I have co-authored 12 books. On the subject, 12 books we com. We completed our 12th and probably our final book on the subject, uh, this past spring called, uh, witness to Roswell, the 75th Anniversary Edition.
And our books are in eight languages. I, I hope I get ’em right. Uh, French, Spanish, uh, German, Chinese, Japanese, Finnish, polish. And I know I’m leaving one. So our books are in eight languages. We’ve written 12 of them. We don’t see the point of another book because we’ve solved the case, uh, Jeremiah, and the only thing we’re missing is a piece of physical evidence that’s un incontrovertible.
There have been pieces brought forth, no, this is from the crash. This is from the crash. And they send them away and you never hear about ’em again. So what we need is a piece of what we call the memory. That you can wad up in your hand and it unfurls itself so that we can demonstrate live on television.
Here’s what a piece of the ship looks like, and here’s the piece of this exotic memory metal that we still don’t have today. So it’s the, it’s the granddaddy of all UFO cases. It happened two weeks after the first flying saucer report in the United States. And, uh, this, uh, government, uh, commission that had this, uh, big, uh, press conference last year that was just a cover, the usual cover story.
Oh, we’re going to look into it. Uh, blah, blah. But we’re only going to go back to 2004. We’re not gonna cover any of those great cases from the past. Not covering those. Just gonna cover cases going forward that have been reported through military channels. And our focus is going to be not what are they or where they come from or where are we.
A focus is going to be are they a threat to national security or not? That’s, that’s their. So that’s a load of, you know what, and, uh, uh, don’t look for anything coming from, from there. So, That’s where we’re at.
[00:13:24] Jeremiah: Yeah. I was gonna ask you about all these government releases lately, like, um, . Do you think it’s just like, kind of to keep people at
[00:13:34] Tom: bay?
Absolutely. Absolutely. Cause you know yourself if you, if you, if you followed the subject at all, the best cases are all in the past. I mean, we know those, uh, that one, uh, that the New York Times wrote up in 2017 was sort of triggered the. Interest of, uh, those, uh, three videos that were put out by, uh, Louise Aand, uh, the one that shows, you know, The disc flying along and doing all these contortions and another one going underwater.
And, and a third one, I forget what it was doing. I think it was doing the ma arena or something, . And, uh, those, those videos have been, uh, I mean the, the horse was already out of the barn, Jeremiah, the, the, the government couldn’t come in and now say, oh, those are no good, because everybody’s seen them. We’ve seen.
A hundred times each, you know? And so they said, yeah, they’re, they’re, uh, they’re real. The the videos are legitimate. Yes. They’re not, uh, they’re, they’re not photoshopped or anything like that, but, uh, no, we don’t know what they are. But they, they don’t appear to be threats of national security. Well, we know that.
What are they, where are they from? What are they doing here? They don’t want to get into that. See. So, so
[00:14:55] Jeremiah: what do you think happened with the bodies that were recovered at the crash? Do you think any of ’em were still alive or, yes. Were
[00:15:03] Tom: they held to head? Yes, there were. There were, there were five occupants.
This is our research now, and, uh, Don Schmidt and I have done more than anybody. We have done more than anybody else. So if it didn’t come from us, check with us
So, uh, yes, there were five occupants in the. Uh, we think it was a disc. And, uh, when the explosion occurred, two of them were blown out and came to rest and they met their fate on a low bluff, uh, near the town of Corona. It’s, uh, out in the desert. It was a low bluff. We call it the deep proctor body site because A, a young boy, I guess he was about eight, nine years old at the time he was with Mac Brazel when Brazel discovered all this stuff.
And, uh, deep Proctor told his mother who told us about this site, and he said, uh, that’s, he told his mother. That’s where Mack found something else. And that’s something else. Were two bodies, two dead, two dead little three and a half to four feet tall, large head, uh, Two holes in the front for where the nose would be, two holes in the ears, little slit for a mouth.
Very frail bodies, no hair. Uh, they were wearing skin tight, uh, silver type spacesuits I guess if you wanna call ’em. So there’s two of them. Uh, the other three were found at this, what we call the impact. Which is the closest to Roswell about, uh, 30 miles north of Roswell, up Highway 2 85, just off the highway.
And what had happened was when the ship exploded, like I said, it was either a. Internal explosion, like, you know, like, uh, hey Gort, what does this button do? , you know, something like that. Or if it was external, it would have to be like a lightning strike because it occurred during a thunder and lightning storm as people reported.
So, uh, that site was found. On July seven. Now, Ja Ack Brazel found his site, the what call the Debris field site on July 3rd. Brazel didn’t know anything about this other site where after the explosion occurred, the inner cabin, the inner cabin that was stood, the the blast continued a loft another 30 miles in a south easterly direction towards Ros.
Came to rest about 30, 32 miles north of Roswell, discovered on the morning of July seven. That’s four days later after Brazel comes to town. And this site, uh, had a, a, uh, teardrop egg shelled shape craft about the size of a Volkswagen Beetle. Little damage on one end, two of the, two of the arguments were.
One was still alive out walking around, well, stag, you know, walking haphazardly around. It was discovered by a, uh, fireman named Dan Dwyer who got out to the site before the military did, and before the sheriff did, and before anybody else of an official capacity. On the morning of the seventh, he gets out to the site in his personal car, not as an official fire.
And he sees the bodies hanging out the cra, he’s looking at the dead bodies and all of a sudden he sees movement out of the, his peripheral vision. He sees movement, he looks out and there’s, there’s the, the third occupant, he’s alive or it, it’s alive, walking around and he’s telling his family this, that night.
And we get the story from his family. Cause Dan Dwyer was dead before we got on the. And so they wanted, you know, what did it look like to add, what did it look like? Well, I, it looked like just I described to you and he said he just used the term Child of the Earth when he described it. Now, I don’t know what that meant.
Well, child of the Earth is like, a, in the southwest is like, they call it the, uh, potato bug or the Jerusalem cricket. It’s like a, it’s like a cricket or insect, you. And he said it looked like the chart of the earth, and they knew what that meant. And I have a picture of it in several of our books, but it’s like an what looks like an insect because of the head.
The head, uh, looks like an insect, so Well Did you talk to it? Did you talk to Yes. He said we talked to one another in our heads. Well, we would call that mental telepathy, right? Yeah. We didn’t, we didn’t talk moving our mouth or anything like, Well, what did you talk about ? Well, he said that, well, I was concerned about, you know, I’m thinking about this creature.
What? And he said, the creature told me mentally don’t worry about me. My ship is destroyed. My comrades are dead. Don’t worry about me. I accept my faith. There’s nothing anybody can do about it. And so the creature was telling Dan Dwyer, don’t worry about it, because Dan was thinking, oh my goodness, what’s, you know, what happened?
And just then the military comes up, uh, Gordon’s off the area, uh, kicks off. You know, Dan Dwyer and, uh, some of the locals, local ranchers got there and, uh, they had all, you know, they all collect souvenirs and that’s why we believe there were still pieces out there somewhere. And, uh, they were all threatened not to talk about this and later on.
Others, uh, that they reinforce it by saying, if any of you talk about this, we will kill not only. , but all the members of your family. And, uh, it was just, uh, it was just quite a scene. Uh, there was no, no martial law, no war. These were, these were illegal acts that they were committing to cover this up by.
Threatening people with death. They even put one, uh, one witness in a insane asylum and threatened others. Uh, they threatened Mac Brazo with putting him in an insane asylum. So that’s what happened to the, and the live one? Well, every, all of the bodies, including the live one, went to Right. Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.
Cause that was the state of the. Airbase at the time had all the latest stuff, uh, back engineering and all that sort of stuff over the years. When Word got out as to where these things were, they were moved to Area 51 in, uh, near Las Vegas, Nevada. And then when things got too hot there, they removed to area 52, which is Dugway, Utah.
And the bodies are still there in Dugway, Utah, that we know that that’s where the Roswell Bowties are. Uh, the dugway proving grounds. But, uh, the wreckage itself was transferred, the Bigelow Aerospace in uh, uh, uh, near. Las Vegas. Cause Robert Bigelow the billionaire, he was already in the space business and it was just a short, uh, skip and jump to transfer all that stuff there.
So that’s where this stuff is today that they’ve been working on for all these years. Bigelow Aerospace and the bodies are at Dugway in Utah near og. So you think
[00:23:03] Jeremiah: the, uh, government captured the live one and kind of like, oh yes, were hoots with them, or, or like tried to detain him or whatever,
[00:23:11] Tom: or her?
Well, they, they escorted him to first, first to the Roswell base because we have a witness who saw it going into the hospital, the hospital on the base. But, uh, the following spring we have witnesses who, who saw it at, uh, Wright Patterson. So that’s where it. And you think they
[00:23:31] Jeremiah: used, like, what do they call that?
Reverse engineering to, on the craft, to try to make stuff for our
[00:23:38] Tom: government. All the records, the craft. Uh, that’s where the, that’s where we believe the stealth technology came from. Uh, they tried to, um, back engineer the memory metal, and that went to Batel Memorial Institute right up the road in Columbus, Ohio.
Here guys. See what, see what you can do with this stuff to, uh, you know, back engineer it. They didn’t tell them where it came from. , . And, uh, so they did that and they got close. Uh, you can, uh, put in your browser, the, the term nitinol, N I T I, let’s see, N I T I N O. Nitinol, that’s our best attempt at back engineering.
The memory metal, it’s got all the qualities except you can, you know, you can cut it and it’s using the space program. It’s using the, some of the eyeglass frames it’s used, the medical technology with Shape recovery is what the big feature of it is. Shape. But the, the only difference is that the memory metal from the Roswell crash, you can’t cut or burn or de form permanently nitinol you, you can buy it by the roll.
You can buy it by the coil. You can buy it by the bar, you know any way you want, you can buy it. So, but that came from, we believe, uh, the Roswell crash.
[00:25:08] Jeremiah: So you always hear like Area 51 linked with the Roswell crash and everything, and there’s a big hoopla about Area 51 and stuff. Do you think it’s like just a empty shell now and like it’s kind of, no, not what people think it is now, but maybe it would’ve been in the
[00:25:26] Tom: past?
Well, when I, uh, whenever I give a talk, I ask people, how many of you have ever heard of Area 51? And all the hands go, And it’s not because of the, that’s where the U2 or the, uh, SR 71 was, uh, development. It’s because of the aliens. Then I ask, how many of you have heard of Wright Patterson Air Force Base?
Maybe one or two hands goes up, but they all have heard about Area 51 and it’s not because of, that’s where, uh, the base was. Uh, area 51 came about to develop the famous U2 spy plane. And that later SR 71. The stealth bomber. The stealth fighter, things like that. And, uh, but people remember it because, oh, that’s where, uh, Bob Lazar said that he worked on some crash flying saucers that are there.
And that’s, that’s what they, that’s what they know. Okay. Whether they’re still there or not, I could not tell you because everything was moved, like I said, from there to area 52 in the, uh, mid nineties, uh, near Dugway. And then later on, uh, it, it, it went into private hands all together, except for the bodies.
All the records went into private hands at Bigelow because in private hands, they don’t have to respond to, uh, foyer requests. If you’re a government entity, you, you have to respond to foyer requests, but Bigelow doesn’t because he’s a private enterprise. Yeah. Didn’t
[00:27:03] Jeremiah: he buy the skin Walker Ranched as well?
[00:27:06] Tom: Yes. Yes. Yeah. He’s always been into that kind of stuff. Well, listen, uh, I was never, you know, I never paid much attention to that, uh, Jeremiah. I had a crypted case locally here, locally, about a mile from my house. It’s a shape shifter or whatever, a ship shape, shape shift or something. The way I got.
Was, uh, like I said, I never paid much attention to the, the, I I was always interested in Bigfoot because of my physical anthropology background. And, uh, my wife came home one night, uh, she’s on a historical board there and she says, oh, you know, I talked to so and so. Uh, who I, who whom I know I talked to so and so.
And did you know that he had a big foot sighting about, uh, uh, 15 years ago? I said no. Yeah. Well, where did he have it? Well, he had it right over here in Soandso Park. So I dialed up my friend, I said, Hey, did you anyway? Yep. I said, meet me there, . Let’s meet together and you tell me what you saw and where you saw it.
So he starts, and I’m expecting Bigfoot, right? I’m expecting a Bigfoot story. Well, it wasn’t Bigfoot at all. I said, this is not Bigfoot. It was the dog man. It was a dog man story. And, uh, that’s what we got because on top of that, uh, I’ve uncovered, uh, many other witnesses, especially people who were, uh, uh, walking that area because it’s a nice, nice, it’s a nice walk.
the woods, you know, the woods are there, and all that sort of stuff. And this thing. Periodic appearances, apparently going all the way back to the 17 hundreds when the, you know, area was being developed. There were reports and, uh, it’s about a mile from my house. So I’ve interviewed a few people. I’ve, uh, worked with a fellow named Eric Mintel, who, uh, has a, uh, paranormal group in Bucks County, which is the next county over, and, um, he’s an international jazz pianist by the.
Played at the White House and all that, but his side, uh, his side deal is he’s, uh, investigative of the paranormal. So we, we investigated this. We’re still investigating this. We already put out a video about it, but it’s, I’m telling you, I never, uh, I never gave much credence to, to these, but this interviewing these students and these people who had the run-ins with it.
I’m telling you, uh, Jeremiah, that they’re not lying to. Yeah,
[00:29:53] Jeremiah: there’s definitely stuff going on. Like you said, big foot, I believe in that. And, um, these crypted dog men. And then you have, you know, the Jersey Devil that’s close
[00:30:02] Tom: by. Yeah, he, uh, Eric, Eric did the j he , that’s how he hooked up with me. He originally was interested in UFOs maybe 20 years ago, but it’s been the, the paranormal mostly, uh, beast beasty type things.
He did a, uh, last October, Not this few months ago, but the last year he was doing a thing in the P going to investigate the Jersey Devil in the Pine Barrens. And he wanted, he wanted someone with an anthropological background. Uh, and that was me. So he called me up, I said, oh, yeah, count me in, by the way, when are you gonna do this?
He said, well, we’re going to go, uh, like two and three in the morning. I said, count me out. goes, I don’t wanna, you know, I don’t wanna run in shake hands with the Jersey Devil at three in the morning. Uh, that’s not my, uh, that’s not my, uh, modus operandi. So I, uh, I did a post investigation interview. Uh, with Eric and, uh, that was in the video.
Uh, but I did not , I did not attend the overnight vigil trying to run up with the, uh, Jersey Devil . And since then we’ve done this crypted thing of the dog man. And, uh, if I did some research on the dog man, and those things are vicious. Those things are vicious. And so like, uh, uh, when I take the trash out, Twice a week.
I’m, look, I’m looking all around, you know, . Yeah. I would
[00:31:35] Jeremiah: be too. Don’t want to get attacked by something like that.
[00:31:39] Tom: Oh, that’s, that’s really, uh, it, it’s, I could not, and interviewing these students, uh, they’re now in their thirties and, you know, in forties and, um, it’s, it’s, it’s scary. It really is.
[00:31:54] Jeremiah: Yeah, I can totally believe that.
I’ve also interviewed someone who had a run in with a Bigfoot creature and sounded quite terrifying too.
[00:32:03] Tom: So . Yeah, we, we had a fellow, this is in a different county in Pennsylvania, this in Bes County. Uh, And this fellow, uh, uh, he’s a degreed, you know, he’s got degrees and he’s a got official position. He was out fishing with his daughter.
His, uh, I guess his daughter was 12 years old or something like that, and they were out in his favorite fishing spot. Uh, in a, you know, a creek of something creek in Berks County, and he heard his boom, big, loud noises. And he said, what? You know, what is that? Well, maybe 50 yards away, he sees this, this big tree wave, a tree going back and forth, a big tree going back and forth.
And what is wrong with that tree? Well, then he sees a big arm. Grabs a bird that’s way up in the tree. This alarm grabs a bird and he comes and it’s a huge 12 foot dog man. And. It, it jumps to the ground and lands on all fours, maybe 60 feet down, and he says, I don’t believe what’s going on here. . This thing was six foot to the, to the waist, and another six foot stood up.
It’s like 12 feet tall dog face, and, uh, uh, it just, uh, went on all fours outta sight with this. Bird that it had captured up in the tree. And like I said, this guy is, you know, as credible as the day is long, you know, so I told Eric, I said, I don’t think I want to go on that one , you know, but, uh, no, it’s up in Bess County pretty far from here.
But that was a, so he drew a picture of it and it’s scary. It’s scary. Yeah. I’ve seen.
[00:34:01] Jeremiah: I don’t know if they’re real photos, but I’ve seen like artist renditions of the dog, man. And it looks pretty
[00:34:07] Tom: creepy. Yes, it and uh, the woman who, uh, sort of popularized the, you know, the dog man cases started mostly in Michigan, the state of Michigan, and this was Leslie, uh, her last name was, oh my God, Lindy, or Lindley, I can’t remember, but she like died last.
Oh, and, uh, but she wrote a book called I Know What I Saw, and I bought it. And, uh, it was scary. It was scary. And having interviewed these people, I have a different look on it now, you know, because the travel Channel has a lot of this stuff. And, uh, even those people interviewed there, they look, you know, they, for me, they look legit, but I never paid too much attention to it because of, you know, my Roswell research and, uh, For me, after 30, 31 years on Roswell, I, we’ve, the only thing we’re missing Jerry, Jerry is, um, a piece of physical evidence.
That’s all we’re missing. Uh, but we believe we solved the case the way, not only by the preponderance of the evidence, but by beyond a reasonable doubt. We believe we’ve had lawyers tell us that.
[00:35:24] Jeremiah: So, yeah. Now for, uh, the Roswell. It was kind of comical to me, uh, that the initial story was flying salsa, crash bodies, little alien bodies.
The, uh, uh, ranch guy found that said the same thing, and then they changed it to, oh, it was a weather balloon. So that kind of like, makes the ranch guy seem like an idiot. Like cuz he was like, he’s, if he, if he, if he would’ve saw a. Weather balloon. He would’ve just said that he
[00:35:57] Tom: wouldn’t have said there was a suspect.
It made the intelligence officer look like an. And he felt like an idiot. They used him to be the scapegoat, and he’s the intelligence officer of the only nuclear tipped organization in the world. The 5 0 9 bomb group, which still is exists today. It’s only mission is to drop atomic weapons on the enemy.
That’s why they’re created. That’s why they’re still in business. Marcel was the intelligence officer, and, uh, he was the one cited in the initial article base intelligence officer Jesse Marcel, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so they used him to pose with the, uh, weather balloon and he’s got a funny look on his face, like, what am I doing here?
And, uh, but he, they used him and he became the fall guy for, and
[00:36:53] Jeremiah: like you said, they tell everyone to. Uh, their lip shutter, they’ll get killed or their family will get killed and
[00:37:00] Tom: Yes. Yes.
[00:37:02] Jeremiah: And then what about, um, the whole like, uh, majestic 12 thing? Oh, does that tie into
[00:37:10] Tom: it? Majestic 12, we know that, you know, whatever, what crashed with the wreckage and the bodies that they had to be taken care of.
Some way somebody had to control. We believe that the so-called Majestic 12 documents are hoaxes, but we believe that there is a control group. Well, we know there was and still is a control group over the disposition of this material. There has to be, and right now it’s out in Bigelow Aerospace and the bodies are safely tucked away in Dugway, Utah.
All, all along there had to, somebody once called them the, the unholy 13. So it’s either the, you know, the Majestic 12 , the unholy 13, but the so-called, uh, majestic documents, the Eisenhower briefing documents, uh, the Cutler Twining memo, and the, uh, there was a third one. We believe those were had noth one was a hoax and the other two were, had something to do with something else that they just plugged in.
But, There was no majestic, uh, operation Majestic 12, which was related to Roswell. Okay. So
[00:38:30] Jeremiah: that’s kind of just been made up by people?
[00:38:33] Tom: Yes. Yes.
[00:38:36] Jeremiah: And then, um, what about was, has there been any like deathbed confessions or anything Oh, or.
[00:38:44] Tom: Does a bear conduct business in them? Woods ? Yes, of course. Many, many, many Beth Deathbed confessions.
And as you know, uh, those in courts of law, those are courted special, uh, consideration because it’s thought that a dying, they also call ’em dying declarations, where a person who knows they’re on the way out. They wanna clear the decks that clear if they’re holding anything, they wanna clear the decks and that’s why they’re given special weight in courts of law.
And uh, yes, we’ve had a number of those. All saying the same thing either. Either they saw the bodies or they had handled the wreckage, but all said that it was not a weather balloon, it was a spaceship from somewhere else.
[00:39:37] Jeremiah: So then that leads me to my other question, is your personal opinion, your personal theory, what do you think the the aliens are?
Where are they from? What are they here
[00:39:48] Tom: for? You know, you’re not gonna believe this, Jerry, but, um, Don Schmidt and I, we worked together, uh, for over 30 years. We’ve never had those conversations. We let we leave that our mandate was to invest a case for investigate the case for whether it was real or not.
And if it was real. What? We, we did that, we believed that we solved the case. It was a spaceship from another world. We don’t know. You know, you got the, oh, it’s Planet Serpo or something. In, in the, uh, uh, Zeta Reticulate. Uh, A binary star, it’s planet Serpo. We have a, we have an agreement with the, uh, aliens that they’re gonna do this for us, and we’re gonna do that.
That, that to us. That’s back background noise. We do, we don’t know. We know it’s from another planet, from somewhere else, most likely, not this solar system, but another solar system. Uh, why they’re here, why are they here? We always get that question. The best we can do is speculate that, uh, most of the sightings were and are in the state of New Mexico where all the nuclear development was taking place, certainly in the forties and 50.
So that’s the only connection we can make, is that somehow they zeroed in on New Mexico. Most likely speculating because that’s where all the atomic, uh, development was taking place. That’s the best we can do, but that’s just speculation. I wouldn’t wanna bet my house on it, , but that, that’s, that’s what we have come up with.
[00:41:40] Jeremiah: I’ve, I have heard of UFO sightings and activity around like nuclear reactors and stuff like that. So seems like they are interested in that
[00:41:51] Tom: somewhat and how they know that we, you know, we don’t know. We don’t know how, like you said, it’s, they must have some sort of, uh, sensitive develop. Oh. There’s nuclear there, you know, but Don and I have never had that, uh, those discussions.
Our, our discussions are always, uh, what about this witness? What about that witness? What about, have you heard about this witness? Who are you, who are you looking for today? You know, Yeah. And that
[00:42:20] Jeremiah: seems like the Roswell incident is one of the most like, uh, credible incidents, I guess you could say, like the most
[00:42:27] Tom: definitive, the, the outside of, uh, you know, these, uh, few videos that have come out in the last few years, which are, you know, legit.
But, you know, we have over 601st and secondhand witnesses, Jerry from RO of pursuant to Roswell over six. No, no other case has anything close to that.
[00:42:51] Jeremiah: What about the, uh, Phoenix Lights
[00:42:54] Tom: incident? That’s a good case. That’s a good case. It’s in my top, uh, top 10. Yeah, it’s, uh, that’s, that is a good case. Uh, you got those strange lights.
So , they’re not flares. I don’t know what they are, but they’re not flares. And then you have the, Triangular shape craft a huge triangular shape craft flying low. And a lot of people reported That’s a good
[00:43:19] Jeremiah: case. Yeah. And then you had the mayor that, uh, came out in the alien costume or whatever, like made fun of it, and then later said he was wrong, that it really
[00:43:27] Tom: happened.
Governor, uh, yeah. Governor, governor Fyfe, Simonton. Uh, yes. He tried to make a joke out of it and it fell flat because too many people saw too mu too many things. They knew it wasn’t funny, you know? Yeah. And it was
[00:43:44] Jeremiah: such a large area too.
[00:43:47] Tom: Yep. And they said Air Force first tried to say it was a, they were flares.
Well, you know, flares fall and they leave smoke. I’m a city fella and even I know that .
[00:44:02] Jeremiah: Yeah, there’s, that was a joke. Uh, excuse . Cause I saw one. I was like, those aren’t flares.
[00:44:09] Tom: Yeah. Andy si. Today is a true believe. You know, he says, I saw a spaceship. You know, he, he fessed up. He saw, he saw the triangular craft.
[00:44:19] Jeremiah: Now it’s hard to tell after the Roswell incident if it’s really like outer space craft or if it’s our government. Secret projects and stuff like
[00:44:29] Tom: that. Our government, one thing they do tell the truth on is they say it’s not one of, it’s not one of our projects. And, uh, I can’t, I can’t believe that it is just, oh, the, the, the other thing about the crypted, uh, and this carries over to UFOs as well, because a lot of UFOs seem to appear and disappear, aren’t they?
Yes. They just d. Well, the, the crypted, that’s the same thing. They appear and they dis disappear. So there’s some sort of interdimensional thing going on there. I don’t know what it is, how it works. Some, uh, interdimensional thing going on. And, uh, two of the premier witnesses on Roswell that were interviewed, not by me, but by one, by a friend of mine and another one by, uh, I interviewed his.
Both of the one, one was a, um, on the Werner Von Bra project because they were brought in to, to investigate Roswell as well. And he was on Roswell’s team and he was interviewed by a friend of mine, bill Burns, who used to have a TV show called UFO Hunters and Burns interviewed him and, um, uh, this, uh, his name was, uh, George Ho.
He’s passed away, but he said it was, uh, uh, inter, uh, uh, not interdimensional, but uh, extra temporal. Roswell was extra temporal. And he, he even concluded that it might be us from a future earth. So how’s that time travelers? How was that? That’s one, one high up guy involved in this. The other high up guy was a German paperclip scientist named T Stein.
He passed away, but I got the information from his son that he was involved in this, and, uh, he said it was interdimensional, not extra, no extra dimensional, not extraterrestrial, extra dimensional. So there’s another. Time traveler interdimensional thing. Now, if this is coming from Uncle Harry in the, uh, in the bar down the street, over a few drinks, then I could, okay.
Best of luck Uncle Harry. You know, that was a good story. But these are two high ups in the, who were in involved in analyzing the Roswell remains. So I have to give that special thought because I had, prior to that, I had never considered interdimensional things or time traveling things or things like that.
But you have to figure how do they get from there to here when the distances are so great.
[00:47:24] Jeremiah: Yeah, they’d have to have some type of wormhole or so.
[00:47:28] Tom: Yes. Yes. Or Ben Space, or Ben something I, which it goes over my head. Okay. Uh, but they, they have to have something right now. What
[00:47:37] Jeremiah: about that? Um, I’m sure you totally disagree, but I heard that there was a lady who wrote a book and everything about how the whole Roswell thing was just, uh, the Russians and the whole Cold
[00:47:50] Tom: War thing.
Uh, Annie Jacobson, Annie, we, we investigated that. We in, we, we talked to her source and he said he never said anything like that. And it’s so, it’s ridiculous on its face. Uh, uh, Joseph Manley, the angel of death at Auschwitz, working with Joseph Stalin to scare Americans on its face. It’s ridiculous because, um, Manly died, uh, in South America somewhere, and Stalin died in 1953.
But if the Russians had anything like that, they, we’d be speaking Russian today. Yeah. But, but we, like I said, we investigated, we talked to the source. He said he never said anything like, So you just wipe that one away, Jerry Just, just wipe that one away. And that, that was only like a one or two pages in her book.
Her book was a pa about, uh, I guess the paper, was it about the paper clips operation paper clip? It was only about one or two pages, but that’s the one or two pa everybody wanted to talk. And, uh, she finally got to be saying, I’m not gonna talk about Roswell when she’s doing about the, uh, when interviewed about their book.
I’m not talking about Roswell. It was so ridiculous. So ridiculous. Yeah. I just wanted to
[00:49:20] Jeremiah: get it out there so we can, uh, you shove
[00:49:23] Tom: it under the rug. Uh, shove that next to the bear in the woods. Just that’s where the bear can use it to clean himself up. .
[00:49:34] Jeremiah: But yeah, I just watched that documentary, um, in Plain Site by Dockside Media and you were on there and, um,
[00:49:43] Tom: a lot of great.
Wait, a what’s a, am i, am I, where am
[00:49:46] Jeremiah: I? One the Dockside Media document. In plain sight about the UFOs and the government and all. Oh, I’m in it. Yeah, I think so. I’m pretty sure you were in there. Oh, .
[00:49:58] Tom: I’ll have to check it out. ?
[00:50:00] Jeremiah: Yeah, I think, uh, Tyler is the guy who, um, was doing the filming.
[00:50:05] Tom: Oh, okay. What was I sitting down talking around?
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it is a or cause you know, uh, cause I, I, I’ve, I’ve done so many interviews and I, I can’t, I can’t remember any I did last week, , you know,
[00:50:21] Jeremiah: so, yeah, they, they have a documentary company, doc iMedia, and they do. Uh, things about like Bigfoot and UFOs and stuff
[00:50:29] Tom: like that. Oh, okay. Great. Well, I’ll have to check that one out.
[00:50:33] Jeremiah: yeah, it was a really well done documentary and you gave a lot of great information in there about the whole incident. I did. Yep.
[00:50:43] Tom: No, truly. I didn’t know I was in it, but, uh, I’ll check it. But yeah,
[00:50:47] Jeremiah: I want to thank you for coming on and speaking with us and shedding some light into the whole Roswell, I mean, yeah,
[00:50:53] Tom: Roswell incident. I hope, I hope I shed some light . Cause No, I basically, I, uh, I announced my, uh, You know, because every year Don Schmidt and I would go down to Roswell during their UFO festival in July, and we, you know, we would give talks.
But I announced this this past July, that this year was my last year, uh, down there. So I’m sort of semi-retired. I’m still getting, uh, you know, if something comes across my desk, like I gotta ran a new witness has just crossed my desk in the last, uh, few weeks. He’s, uh, so we’re, I’m, you know, I, I’m still checking things that come my way, but I’m not going out into the hinterlands tracking down
[00:51:41] Jeremiah: witnesses, but maybe down the street to check on
[00:51:43] Tom: the dog, man.
Maybe down the street. But this scripted thing is down the street. Yeah. So, . And it is, I have to say it is very interesting, uh, as being scary. Yeah, for
[00:51:54] Jeremiah: sure. And yeah, after your last book, you said this next one’s the last one. So, um,
[00:52:00] Tom: I said that after every book, . Oh yeah, yeah. . No, but this, this, this last one we did, uh, Jerry and uh, came out in April of this year.
It was the 75th anniversary of, uh, edition of Witness to Ros. And it was got rave reviews. And, uh, like I told you, uh, I, I don’t see where we go now, uh, any further cuz we, we’ve solved the case. The only thing we’re missing is a piece of physical evidence. Yeah. Which
[00:52:33] Jeremiah: I’m sure is locked in a volt somewhere.
Yes. Yeah. Cuz the government isn’t gonna give that up, .
[00:52:40] Tom: Yes, it is. It is frustrating. It is frustrating because we know there are pieces out there. Yeah.
[00:52:46] Jeremiah: You would hope that they would just come forward and say, yeah, something happened then and uh, we investigated and whatever.
[00:52:55] Tom: But yeah, I mean, we’ve had stories where people had, they said, yeah, I had a piece.
We, we used it as a door. Well, where, where is it now? Well, we moved a couple times. Over the years, it just disappeared. Another, another fellow said, oh, we used to keep it on top of the television. Well, where is it now? Well, I, I don’t know what happened to it, you know? And it’s so frustrating. It’s so frustrating.
[00:53:19] Jeremiah: Yeah, for sure. So yeah, thanks for coming on, speaking with us, uh, sharing your knowledge.
[00:53:25] Tom: It’s been my pleasure. It’s been my pleasure.