The Human Experience and Lost Civilizations
[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow
Terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in
the Carolina Mountains. Welcome to the What If
They’re Wrong podcast.
The podcast that wants you to
question everything. Your reality is about to be shattered.
Hello and welcome to the What If the Wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything. I’m joined today by Jim Willis. He’s an author of multiple books and we’re gonna talk with him about his works. So I’ll introduce him now. Hello Jim.
[00:00:48] Jim: Hi, Jeremiah. Nice to be with you. Nice to be with you.
[00:00:51] Jeremiah: Yes, thanks for coming on and speaking with us. Um, Sharon, your publications and all. Great, great, thank you. So, um, you had said you’re coming out with a new book. Uh, what does that entail?
[00:01:03] Jim: Um, the newest one. It, it will probably be next, oh boy. Uh, it might even go off a year from now, but it’s a kind of a follow up. Um, a while back for, um, uh, inner, uh, inner dimensions, um, publishers.
I wrote a book called Quantum Maksik Field, and, uh, it was about, uh, basically about out-of-body experiences. But, uh, a new, a different publisher. The one that I have worked with quite often in the past at, uh, visible Link Press. They wanted to kind of follow up on this one on, uh, near death Experie. And so I’m right involved in the process now, uh, of that, of, of writing that.
Meanwhile, we have three other books that will be coming out before then. The first, uh, is coming out on March 7th, and it’s a book called American Cults. . Um, and it’s about the, um, the whole phenomenon of, of cults in America. Uh, going back to the very beginning. The next one is a kind of a spiritual biography on autobiography. I guess called Cosmo and Me. The adventures of a person who traveled from religion to spirituality. And, uh, that’ll be coming out this spring and then followed this summer.
We’ll, uh, Jan and I will be bringing out, uh, a book. That it’s, it’s about a spirit guide that I encountered in out body experience’s called SaBuCo in Me. And, uh, that’ll be this spring, and then that’ll be followed up by the Near Death Experience book. So it, it’s been a busy time.
[00:02:44] Jeremiah: Yeah, it sounds like it.
Uh, , I’m a writer myself, so I know how much goes into it, so never into depth. Anyone listening, I’ll link. Yeah, I’ll link Jim’s website. Great.
[00:02:55] Jim: Yeah, you, yeah. And if anybody’s interested, it’s uh, it’s http://www.jimwillis.net. And, uh, I’d love to love to hear from you. There’s a contact page that I’d love to hear from anybody who, uh, um, finds it.
[00:03:08] Jeremiah: I had, um, had a near death experience myself. You had said that you wanted to talk about that. Cuz, I think I originally reached out to talk about ancient alien stuff. .
[00:03:19] Jim: Very much so. Uh, I’d, I’d love to hear you’re near that experience. I’ve been interviewing, uh, quite a few people and their stories have been into the books.
Matter of fact, I’d, uh, I’d even love to include some of yours, if you wouldn’t mind. Yeah, I
[00:03:32] Jeremiah: can definitely, uh, write it out and send it to you. That would be
[00:03:36] Jim: super. That would be super. Yeah. I’ll do that then. Be much better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me.
[00:03:42] Jeremiah: So, um, my audience has heard it multiple times. But I’ll do it for the sake of this show.
But, um, you
[00:03:49] Jim: just give me the quick version now and the written version later then. That sounds good. Yeah.
[00:03:53] Jeremiah: I’ll give you the quick version. . Um, okay. In the middle of the night, uh, was sleeping. And all of a sudden all I can kind of describe it as my consciousness came awake and mm-hmm. . I saw the proverbial dark tunnel with the light at the end of it. And, I just started getting like, um, gravitated towards it.
And about like halfway up. I just felt this overwhelming love and peace and warmth and the world just shedding away and. Like, I wasn’t concerned about anything, uh, on earth or anything of my or my body or nothing. And, um, the feeling was just so intense. Like, I don’t think I’ll ever feel it until I pass away again.
Um, wow. But, um, and then when I got like three quarters of the way up. I saw silhouettes of like three people. I wanna say they were people I couldn’t see faces or anything. They just started calling to me in these like angelic voices, uh, very soothing, calming. Almost like I’ve known ’em for like my whole life.
And they were just saying, um, it’s okay, don’t be scared. Um, it’s okay. You’re all. Um, just reassuring me that I’m not in trouble or anything like that. Yeah. And so then something just like clicked in my consciousness. I don’t know what it was, because like I couldn’t see my body floating or anything like that.
It was literally just my mind, um mm-hmm. . I was like, no, I’m not ready yet. I can’t, I can’t come yet. I’ve got a mission on Earth. I’ve got something to do. Um, I’m not done yet. After I screamed out, like three or four or five times. I think it was more like four or five times. I just felt this intense force like getting shot out of a gun. I was instantly awakened in my bed and, um mm-hmm.
I was gasping for air, like someone had been strangling me or keeping me underwater or something like that. And I, my heart was hurting. Like someone was squeezing it and. , I thought I was having a heart attack. So mm-hmm. , I told my brother, Hey, you gotta take me to the hospital cuz he was living with me.
And he was like, are you serious? It’s three o’clock in the morning or whatever, . Um, and I was like, yeah, you gotta, you gotta take me, I think I’m having a heart attack. So he took me, they hooked me up, did all the tests, did blood work, everything. Hours later the doctor came in and was like, you’re a hundred percent healthy.
We don’t know what happened. But we are gonna have to dismiss you or discharge you cuz you’re a hundred percent healthy. And um, so I went home not thinking much of it. The next like three days, four days, I just felt this light squeeze on my heart. Like someone was just lightly squeezing it like a stress ball kind of.
And um, eventually it just went away and, uh mm-hmm. . . That was the end of the experience and I didn’t think much of it for till a couple years later. I started getting into like conspiracy theories and started researching like ancient history. And mm-hmm. came across the near death experience phenomenon and I was like, oh man, I might’ve had one
And uh, yeah, it was, it was
[00:07:20] Jim: crazy. , there are a number of, um, uh, stages. A number of events that ha happened to just about everybody. As I’m sure you’re well aware, and you’ve just about ticked off every single box. The idea peace and, and joy, almost universal. Um, the idea of, uh, the, the tunnel and seeing the, the entities, whatever we wanna call them. Communicating almost almost tele telepathically, uh, all those are just classic.
Tell me, were you aware of anything that’s you might interpret as say, music or anything like that? Uh, vibrations. Um,
[00:08:05] Jeremiah: no, I don’t think so. It was just, uh, I could tell I was in. It’s hard to describe cuz it’s like Yeah, yeah. Ethereal. But it’s like, I could tell I was in like a tunnel, but it was just all blackness, , uhhuh,
If that makes any sense. Yeah. Um, but the bright white light looked kind of like the sun. But it was um, like I could look at it, it didn’t hurt my eyes or anything. Yeah. Um, and I just felt that gravitational pull, it wasn’t fast or anything, it was very slow. Mm-hmm. and I was just gravitating towards it and Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Then like I said about halfway up is when it started feeling like that super peace. Super love all the world shedding away and Yeah. Um, yeah. ,
[00:08:56] Jim: I know there was, now you say there was a um. A part of you that um, knew you had to come back. Was there an also a part of you that really wanted to stay?
I didn’t want
[00:09:05] Jeremiah: to leave that love and peace and warmth feeling cuz it was so immense. And I just felt so at ease and calm and, um, Uhhuh, . But it was like my consciousness was like super rebelling, like saying, I’m not done. I have a mission. Yeah. I still have stuff to do on earth. And it kind of overrid everything, , these silhouettes of these beings, people, whatever.
Um, they didn’t seem shocked or concerned or anything about it. They were kind of like, they just kept chanting, or I say chanting. But they were just saying like, it’s okay. Don’t be scared. It’s all right. You’re fine. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I don’t know what it was, but like I said. Around the fourth or fifth time that I screamed out that I’m not ready yet Yeah.
Is when I just got shot back, um, into my body or my consciousness got shot back into my body.
[00:09:58] Jim: Yeah. How has, how has it affected how you approach your life now? .
[00:10:02] Jeremiah: Um, for a long time it really changed my life. Like I changed the music. I listened to, I changed the way I was towards other people. I was less concerned about smaller, trivial things and more about mm-hmm.
the bigger picture. Yeah. And, um, really got into like the whole spiritual stuff and the conspiracies. And the, uh, ancient history and lost ancient histories, all that stuff. Just out of the blue, like out of nowhere. .
[00:10:37] Jim: Yeah. Yeah. So that, that really, it really did change then your, your direction, your, especially your spiritual direction. Even your, what you considered important and.
[00:10:49] Jeremiah: Cuz before this incident I considered myself an atheist. I didn’t believe in anything. Mm-hmm. and, um mm-hmm. . I just, you know, was living normal life. Had nothing special about it. I was just working, hanging out, playing video games. And I had my brother and his wife living with me and, um, she was pregnant.
So, um, they were staying in one of the rooms of my house and, uh, yeah. Just a normal life. And, and then that event happened and I just, I’ve never completely been the same since .
[00:11:26] Jim: Yeah. . Yeah. Oh, uh, yeah. If you could, uh, if, if you could, if, if you already written about this. Or if you could, you know, jot down the highlights.
Uh, if it’s okay, I would love to, uh, I’d love to include you, uh, your story in the book. And, um, of course we’ll make sure you get a copy. So, after you read that, When it comes outta year from now. We may want to get together again. We’ll make sure to, to get you a copy of that for sure. That’s a, that’s a, that’s a classic, a classic story.
It’s just, it’s wonderful. Um, I’ve never had an out-of-body. I mean, I’ve never had a near-death experience, or at least I don’t think so. But I’ve had many, many out-of-body experiences and the, um, the similarities are so, so, so obvious in some cases. Um, this whole idea of other dimensions. That’s why when you called me and, uh. When you talked to me and you said you wanted to talk about, uh. The possibilities of ancient alien theory and, uh, UFOs and that kind of thing today, I was so intrigued. Because, um, there’s a lot of different ideas about, uh. Well, what UFOs are, for instance, uh, uh. There’s these five big, um, categories of, of, you know, people who approach the whole idea of UFOs.
And one of those is, uh, uh, of course angels and, and demons. Uh, you find those in, in, in religions. Um, what are angels and demons except for entities from another dimension that come into our life? Um, when we read in the, even in the Bible of the story of Ezekiel, for instance. Who saw that classic example of a U F O landing.
I mean, if we, if that wasn’t in the Bible, you just swear it was, uh, uh, science fiction. A typical U f o , u f O experience. The other one, of course is, uh, the whole idea of the, of spirit guides. Uh, and I’ve had a lot of experience with that. Another one though, however, is entities, uh, that UFOs could possibly be entities from another time. Um, coming back to us from our own future perhaps, or entities from another dimension.
Uh, when Christians gathered together and saying, angels, we have heard on hi, they’re talking about entities from another dimension. We could very easily put that in the U f O thing. And of course, the other one is aliens from our own universe. Our own, uh, our own cosmos from outer, uh, outer space. But, uh, uh, so many of these are, are, are transferrable, I think to other, um, other.
uh, possibilities that people have talked about for a, a long time. And of course, near death experiences and out-of-body experience is where we actually en encounter what we might call, um, UFOs in, in a sense that’s one very real possibility. Uh, Carl Yung, uh, back even in the 19th century, um, had a, had a wonderful idea that he called Hope from the Skies.
Uh, a lot of people don’t realize that Carl Yung a great, you know, um, psychiatrist, psychologist who, uh, uh, was, was so known for his old idea of our own interpretation, of our own dream life and, uh, our own ID and the archetypal, uh, unconscious and all this kind of thing. Um, he really believe. That, um, perhaps the U f O phenomenon, which was really just beginning during his time, had something to do with this.
Um, and it, and it was interesting when his book had come out, uh, in, in the 20th century, um, it came out just about the same time. It caught on just about the same time when the whole idea of the Christian rapture came in, in, into the idea, the idea that, uh, um, Jesus was gonna come back and gather up his his people.
There’s a, there’s a whole U f o theory for you right there. Uh, Joseph Campbell put these together, but that whole idea of that hope from this guy is the idea of we’re looking to something, uh, outside of ourselves to save our. And, uh, I, I study it as, um, an academic scholar, but there’s a part of me that really says, wow, I’m looking for it too.
You know, I mean, uh, we seem to be on a track that, uh, we’re we’re, we’re not doing a very good job of policing ourselves. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to have, uh, a contact of a, of a species who has been through this and, uh, who can, who can guide us and direct us into a possibility of a future? Um, and this again, is no new idea.
Of course, you know, star Trek. Um, first contact was, that’s what the movie was all about. The idea of people coming in from the, from the, uh, the future and, and, and saving us from ourselves after the, after the Great Third World War, as they said, that brought along so much death and destruction sometimes it almost seems, doesn’t it?
Like that’s about the only thing that’s gonna work is if we get some help from the outside. We sure don’t seem to have a lot of, uh, uh, ability to do it ourselves.
[00:16:50] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely not. It feels like, you know, we’re just bound for our own destruction and we can’t get out of our own way.
[00:16:58] Jim: Yeah. Yeah. It, it’s interesting too when we, uh, we talk about how, you know, that and what you just said is not a new idea.
Uh, Plato talked about it way back, um, when he was writing the, to MEUs when he first mentioned, uh, the, the idea of Lantis. Um, whether if people believe in Atlantis as a reality, a real historical idea, or whether it’s a metaphor, um, I, I tend to treat it more as history than metaphor, but it certainly is a wonderful metaphor.
And Plato said, uh, in describing the people of that lost civilization, um, he said, for many generations they obeyed the laws and loved the divine. To which they were a kin, he said, a kin to the divine. Wow. What a statement. From more than 2000 years ago, uh, he said they reckoned that qualities of character were far more important than their present prosperity.
Wow. That’s a headline for today, isn’t it? . And he was writing this, you know, 2,500 years ago. So they bore the burden of their wealth and possessions lightly, he said. And they did not let their high standard of living intoxicate them or make them lose their self control. Self-control. That was the civilization he was talking about.
But then he said, when the divine element in them, the divine element became weakened, and their human traits became predominant, they ceased to be able to carry their prosperity with. Moderation. Wow. Uh, he, he was describing our age, the divine element in us is weakened. We no longer associate with the idea of spirit.
We’re just so materialistic and our human traits have become predominant. Just look at the news and you all, you can see that. And as a result, we have ceased to be able to carry our prosperity with modern, uh, with moderation. Uh, um, it’s, it’s, it’s almost unbelievable to me when you, when you think about how Play-Doh had his finger on this so long ago, and it was just as if he was describing our time, uh, and, and even the Apostle Paul almost 2000 years ago, he, he had his own, uh, Plato type prophecy when he said, there will be terrible times in the last days.
People will be lovers of themselves. And lovers of money, and they will be boastful and proud and abusive. They will be disobedient to their parents. Will be ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous. They will be without self-control. Will be brutal, not lovers of the good. They will be treacherous and rash and conceited and lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.
They will have a form of godliness, I think that describes modern religion, a form of godliness, but they will deny its power. Uh, in so many ways, modern religion has moved away from the whole idea of the spiritual, almost shamanic vision. Of the founders and they had built these dogmatic doctrinal fence around their followers.
What? Because they’re more interested in, in, I think, power and in control than anything else. And you’re hearing this from a guy who was a minister for 50 years, , Protestant minister for 50 years. So, uh, it, it, it says something about our time that I think is just all, well, it’s, it, it’s very appropriate. And that’s why when, when, uh, people say they don’t have time to look into this kind of stuff, um, I almost wanna say we don’t, we, we don’t have time not to look into it , because we really stand at a precipice right now.
That’s why I think shows like yours are so important. You’re, you’re doing such important work and, uh, I, I really, uh, really congratulate you because the idea of being able to share conversations like this with people, it’s, it’s a relatively new phenomenon, never used to be able to happen before the internet.
So, uh, so thank you . I all of us appreciate it because it’s, it’s a subject and a topic and deals with things that we, we, uh, we really need to get into. Otherwise, I’m afraid we will, we will become perhaps the next lost civilization.
[00:21:52] Jeremiah: Yeah. I totally believe that there was lost civilizations. Um, and there’s evidence of it throughout the world.
Yeah. Even if it was like the, you know, some people say it was the pre emmic civilization. Mm-hmm. like. Um, I guess, would that have been when the Fallen Angels happened? Genesis six or whatever.
[00:22:16] Jim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would be, yeah, Genesis, it would’ve been post emmic, but pre, uh, or post emmic. Pre pre Noah and the flood and all that kind of idea.
Matter of fact, according to the Bible, again, whether we look at it as a metaphor or not, that was exactly the reason that, um, God theoretically sent the flood that destroyed us because we were having, well, shall we say, improper, um, Meetings, , the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair and came down and actually mat it with them.
And the result was the nephem, um, the, uh, the, the mighty men of renowned. And for that reason, the Bible says that, that God destroyed the world. Yeah, I, I agree. What you, with, what you say about pre, pre-civil, pre emmic civilizations like you just mentioned, and, and, um, there’s a lot of time to fit whole civilizations in there.
I had a, um, an insight into this one time when, when a friend of mine. Told me his story a number of years ago now, uh, this was a good friend of mine, but he was born about, uh, two months after his father died in a tragic car accident. So he grew up not knowing his father. Uh, and the only thing he knew about his father was what he gathered from family who would talk about him at family gatherings.
You know, at Christmas and Easter or Thanksgiving, they would remember his father. And so he put together this idea of who his father was and years went by and this stayed with him for his whole life. Years went by and finally his mother, who still lived in the same house, uh, decided she had to move, go to a smaller place.
So we went to help her move, and in going up to the attic and rummaging around through years and years and years of history, he found an old trunk and in the trunk where some of his father’s journals, his mother had even forgotten that his father used to keep journals. . And so for the first time, he could read in his father’s own words, uh, what his father was like, had a totally different impression.
He says, it changed me forever, um, because I, I didn’t know who my father was. And when I learned who my father was, it changed my whole life. I, that, that seemed like such an important metaphor for us because to me it seems as if we are just like that friend of mine who, um, we, we have forgotten who our father is.
And we’ve, uh, created this, uh, I think entirely, entirely erroneous idea of, of who we are based on, uh, hearsay basically. And, uh, but there exists, I think in the world, um, journals, let’s say that were written by the ancients, not in words, but in great megalithic monuments or in oral history that goes way, way back or.
Uh, different things that if, if we open our eyes and open our minds and open our hearts to this, I think if we study our ancient ancient history, we can begin to discover who we were and instead we just, you know, sweeping under the rug. Um, I had a classic example of this when I, uh, first visited the, uh, the pyramids in Egypt.
Uh, of course you can’t go down into the pyramids without a guide. So there was a number of us and we had a Egypt e Egyptologist, who was gonna be our guide. This was, oh, probably. maybe 30 years ago when, when this happened to me. And I went back, um, uh, down into the pyramid and I happened to be the first guy in line as we went in that long corridor that led to the interior one and one of the interior chambers of the pyramid.
And we were walking along a wooden walkway. They didn’t want us to walk on the actual ground, of course, cuz they didn’t want tourists, scuffing up evidence, all that kind of stuff. But along this wooden walkway where we were, there were, uh, a bunch of wires that, that were there to, um, then the whole idea of it was to, um, light, the light switch would go on automatically by sensor.
When we passed certain places, all of a sudden ahead of us, the lights would go on behind us, they would go off and it, it occurred to me, Wow. Uh, without these lights, what could we do? How did these, the original builders, how, how did they do this? And so I asked the guide, I said, you know, I, I, I’m looking around on the ceiling and on the walls.
I’m not seeing any smoke from torches. I said, uh, how did they see to come down here to work? And the guy just looked at me and he said, oh, they must have had some kind of a light source. And he turned his Mac back and he walked away some kind of a light source. Well, obviously they had some kind of a light source and he didn’t want to talk about it.
He just wanted to sweep it under the rug. Now, how important would it be for us to actually study those kinds of questions, but instead he was just perfectly willing to say, um, some kind of a light source and then not even get into it any farther than that. Wow. Talk about forgetting who we are. Um, these civilizations give us all kinds of clues.
These kinds of questions take us into the metaphorical journals. I think that were written by our ancestors and, uh, I think they’re just so important to study. Very important. And we to our own peril. I just pretty much ignored, I think a lot of this.
[00:27:59] Jeremiah: Yeah. And yet everyone says like, history repeats itself, but yet we want to ignore the history
So I guess we’ll be repeating it. .
[00:28:09] Jim: Yeah. I, I, I sometimes think the story of history is really just a story of a, of a school that we go through. And we will not graduate from that school until we learn what we’re supposed to learn in that school and in this particular civilization. I’m, I’m really worried about this.
Um, I, I’m reading a book now for about the third time. Uh, written by Skip Atwater, um, about, um, remote viewing and the Army who was, um, doing these classified programs, uh, that are now unclassified. We can now go in and actually see the kinds of, uh, thing they were doing, which remote viewing is basically, um, out-of-body experience or the same kind of thing we see sometimes in a near-death experience.
The idea of being able to get outside of ourselves, realizing we are more than ourselves and our consciousness, um, expands and takes in a reality that we just don’t see too often. And, uh, it was funny because this book, uh, has, uh, was introduced. By, um, uh, uh, McGonagal who has the, uh, um, uh, I forgot, I forgot his first name now, but he was, uh, he, he had the, the nomenclature of number of, uh, number 0 0 1.
In other words, he was the first remote viewer that was working with the Army to, uh, actually as a spy. It also has a, a preface by, um, Dean Raden, who works out at the NOIC Institute in California. And, uh, they both tell the same story about how when this was going on, they were both involved in the research, but because it was so highly classified, they weren’t allowed to say anything.
And so for 10 years they had to wait until the, until the information was then, uh, marked declassified. But so for 10 years they would hear people talk about, oh, this is just a myth. Or, oh, this is just, you know, no one’s really doing this. And here they were actually doing the work and they couldn’t say anything about it until now.
And when you read that story now, and when you read about these, these people who are actually involved in it, it makes you think that, uh, we are doing some wonderful work. But why isn’t this kind of work praised to the skies? Why isn’t it opened up? Uh, you go on YouTube today and look for near death experiences.
Wow. I’ve discovered firsthand. There are thousands of ’em out there. You can, uh, you know, uh, there’s so many stories, people telling their stories, stories like yours, which I think there’s so much more important than what we hear in the typical nightly news, you know, about this or that, or whatever. And I also think that if, if these stories.
We’re part of our regular nomenclature if people took them seriously. Began to think of, I think just how your life was changed because of your nde. Uh, I think the whole human race could be changed. We could change consciousness overnight. That whole idea of love and peace And what’s important that you brought back?
Oh, that just, and, and, and the fear of death as a minister for Active Minister for 40 years now. It’s been 50 since I’ve retired. But, um, for 40 years, uh, I would stand at the bedside of people who would tell me these stories who were flatlined, and then the doctors and nurses rushed me out of the room and worked to resuscitate him.
And when they, when he came back and I was able to go talk to these people, that some of these people, again, they would tell me these wonderful stories about people they saw, whether it was relatives or spirit beings of some kind, entities of some kind. They would tell me these stories. It was sad to say, I.
A left brain systematic theologian. Um, I read about these things in the Bible, but I didn’t really believe them, you know, and I didn’t wanna say that, of course, to the people in the hospital bed. So I just sat there and pat them on the, oh, that’s wonderful. Oh, that’s great. Now I look back and I am so ashamed of myself.
I kicked myself because what I could have learned from these people if I hadn’t been so close-minded, um, it took me well into my sixties before I could retire from the rat race and retire out of the material world and come back here to live in the woods where I live now, and go on a perpetual retreat.
Came out here to live in the woods for one year and wound up, well, it’s been, that was 15 years ago. . . So I’m still here going strong, but it’s, uh, I don’t know. To me it’s just so important and it breaks my heart that, uh, people, more people aren’t open to it and they just still treat it as if, um, anything, you know, hallucination or something like that.
Um, sad, sad thing, I think. Yeah. Did, uh, when in your N D E N N D E, did you have any kind of, um, life review or anything like that, or that you were aware of?
[00:33:09] Jeremiah: Um, no. And I wonder if it’s because I didn’t get to the light and the figures or whatever. Oh. So I might’ve, I might’ve snapped out before . I was able to go through all that.
But I’ve heard, and I’ve interviewed people who’ve had that, um, life review where they get shown on kind of like a movie screen or like just, uh, projected in their mind. And there was one guy, I don’t know if I, did, I interview him. I either interviewed him or heard him on a, another podcast and he was talking about how he was standing next to.
what he said was God or the Creator or whatever, and mm-hmm. , they were showing his life review and he said he was terrified. Not because he was like, you know, scared, but, cause he had to watch it and he couldn’t say or rebuttal anything from it. So it was just out there and he was like, it was scary because usually people want to rebut and be like, well I did that because of this.
But he Yeah. Sure. Had no chance to do that, so. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, it was scary cuz uh, um, I had no say in it and I had to just watch my whole life play out. .
[00:34:24] Jim: Yeah. And, and being in this culture where we’re taught, From the very beginning that, um, a life review implies some kind of a judgment, you know, that we’re gonna be judged whether we’re worthy or not.
Um, we teach this to our children, even, even children who are not in religious families who don’t get the heaven in hell. God’s gonna get you for that kind of thing. Even in kids who were raised in traditional families that had nothing to do with religion, they get it too because they have that whole bit every Christmas.
Uh, he knows when you’ve been sleeping. He knows when you’re awake. He knows when you’ve been bad or good . So be good for goodness sake, you know, it, it’s even implied to them that everything we do is gonna be judged and, and we are gonna be held responsible. Um, In other cultures, they have a whole idea of, of karma.
You have to do the right thing or so your, your, your karma won’t rise up and bite you. You know, that kind of thing. Um, it, it’s, or reincarnation, it’s such a part. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Reincarnate it, it’s, it’s so much a part of our culture that in this world today, and yet everybody that I talk to says just what you talked to, what, what, what you said of the whole idea of the love and the peace and the joy and acceptance just as we are.
Perfect, perfect joy. Perfect acceptance. What a, what a wonderful thing to look forward to. And it certainly takes away the fear of death, doesn’t it? Yeah.
[00:35:50] Jeremiah: Yeah. Like I’m not, um, it’s weird cuz like, I’m not afraid to die, but it’s still, I’m still human, so I still have that like apprehension of passing on, you know?
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Think that’s natural. Yeah, I think it’s unavoidable as this is the experience we’re experiencing, but like, I’m not, I’m not as scared as I might have once been where I’m like, oh, maybe I’ll, you know, end up in a fiery Bernie pit or whatever. . Yeah.
[00:36:21] Jim: Well, I’ve, I have had, um, conversations with some people in, I read some, uh, accounts, n d e accounts of people who did have, um, an uncomfortable experience when they died, but usually that was because they were so afraid that they brought that discomfort with them.
Um, and I think what they were experiencing was not a reality ex, and except it was, it was real in that they brought with them the fear that they then experienced. And I think if we could have more of this opening up and more sharing, uh, of, uh, this kind of thing and more acceptance, uh, I think it might make a lot easier for people to die too.
Then again, so many of our people today, you know, they, they don’t die at home surrounded by friends and neighbors. They die in hospital situations where they’re all by themselves and they’re usually filled up with drugs to make them physically more comfortable. And I’m not saying that that. , you know, important cuz I’m sure it is.
I mean, I, I hope if I die a painful death, I have some of those available to me too, I suppose. But I think it, it, it, it does tend to cloud the interpretation of what’s happening to us. And, uh, yeah, I, I don’t think consciousness arises within the brain. I don’t think it’s a, uh, it comes out of chemical or electrical energies in the brain.
I think the brain is more a receiver of consciousness. Look at consciousness as being everything, the, the ground of our being. Uh, the source. If you speak, uh, what is. What is consciousness, except the idea of when a person is conscious or something is conscious, they are aware of themselves, they are aware of their environment, and I think that’s what consciousness has done with us.
It’s created this wonderful environment where we are part of a, a school, so to speak, where consciousness can come out of the source and, and, and, uh, experience, uh, life on this side of the Higgs field, you know, uh, on the material side, uh, energy is. is, is, is, um, mass and masses energy. Einstein taught us that with the famous EMC Square equation.
But out here, um, we can experience something that you can’t experience when you are in total of consciousness, and that is individuality. The whole idea of our ego. Um, I am me and you, are you, we are separate from one another. Uh, I find that interesting because I, I talked to a lot of theologians about, you know, what is God?
How would you describe God? And a lot of theologians have said, well, You know, one thing we can say about God is, uh, uh, heaven and hell. For instance, they say, heaven is unity with God. Hell is separation from God. Well, here in this life, we are separated from God. W w we are totally en invest in this whole idea of our ego, this sense of I, and we are in, in surrounded by this perceptual fence, you know, of, of our perceptions.
We, if we can’t touch it and taste it and, and, uh, smell it and see it, and all this can hear it, uh, it doesn’t exist. You know, that’s what, that’s the whole basis of most science. Um, we have to be able to put it under a test tube to say it exists. And now, so that’s where we are. That’s where we’re living.
Well, that’s separation from God. And by implication, that means that if, if hell is separation from God and we are separated from God, then in a sense we can say this life is, is, is hell, and we just can’t wait to get out of it. and, and union find union once again with God, uh, with a source, with consciousness.
Um, and I think that’s, that whole acceptance of love and, and joy that you, you experienced, that you talked about so well, uh, it’s, it’s there. It’s waiting for all of us. What a wonderful, wonderful message that is. I think
[00:40:27] Jeremiah: we are all connected. I don’t think we’re as individual as we think. And I think there is times where it shows like.
The whole, uh, mystery of if you’re staring at someone, they kind of know and they’ll fi and they’ll look your way eventually. Like, what is that? Same thing with yawning, like everyone, um, yawning is contagious, but like my cat can yawn and I don’t yawn. So it’s not contagious for like animal to human. So it’s like, what are those connections, like what science can prove of that?
Like , they don’t really have an answer for it. They’re just like, oh, well it happens, you know, and . But I think it has to do with we’re all interconnected in some way. .
[00:41:13] Jim: Yeah. I, I think separation is strictly a, a feeling. Uh, it, it’s not a reality. And I think quantum proving, quantum physics is proving that to us in the quantum realm from which we all spring.
I mean, even scientists agree with that. You get down small enough and you find that whole concept of entanglement, which is just wonderful. Um, we are all entangled. We are all part of one another. And I think a lot of these, um, so-called clairvoyant ideas or, um, remote viewing or near death experience or out-of-body experience, is simply stepping outside of our perception fence and seeing reality for what it is.
That we are all connected. We are all, we are all one. and how, how we can go to war with people who are connected with, I don’t know, but we seem to be doing it constantly throughout our history. Again, if we could study this stuff and it become, if, if it could become part of, oh, even the very beginnings of, of teaching to our kids when they’re four or five, six years old.
Uh, it would change, it would change life as we know it, I think. Really important. Yeah, and
[00:42:24] Jeremiah: I think, I think science and stuff is, is important. Like it’s important to have in this reality, but I think that. in ways it’s gone off the deep end and it’s more of like a religion instead of a, you know,
[00:42:38] Jim: science.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s, there’s so many classic examples of that. Uh, um, when you talk about Hugh Everett, for instance, back in the fifties, was the, uh, brilliant physicist who gave us the whole idea of the many world’s theory of quantum reality. Uh, the idea of many worlds constantly splitting off and, and forming new whole universes where different things happen as a result of decisions and choices and what science would call measurement.
Um, and when he first suggested that back in the fifties, Oh, he was, he was panned. Uh, it, it, what happened to him was terrible. He was, uh, absolutely forbidden to, no one would hire him to teach. No one would hire him to publish. No one would give him any money to do any kind of experience. He was basically forced out of physics, which might be a good thing because he had to go work for the government and he was the one that was responsible for probably helping us survive the Cold War.
He came up with a whole idea of mutually accepted, uh, acceptable destruction and, um, but now, you know, he died thinking he was a failure. Died much too early, much too young. Tragic failure, because he was not just. They didn’t just argue with his ideas, they ridiculed him and they just, they all kinds of things.
He died thinking he was an abject failure and now a great proportion of the scientific community worships the ground that he over lo walked on. It was all because rather than just listen to these ideas and talk about them and discuss them like scientists should, they began to attack his character and they began to attack his personality.
And, uh, they called him all kinds of names and everything like that. And these are supposed to be open-minded objective scientists. Now, uh, just this morning I heard a, uh, interview with a well-known scientist talking head who speaks of Everett. Like, oh, he was this great guy who gave us this wonderful idea and he never even mentioned how he was treated by his colleagues.
Um, just a terrible thing. Terrible thing. I think.
[00:44:49] Jeremiah: Oh yeah. And then you have, uh, other people who are more open to other ideas, possibilities, like Ola, Tesla knew Yeah. That there was some kind of quantum energy or like energy field that you could tap into to get free energy and stuff like that. And um, so there are people like that, but like you said, they always get like ridiculed or
[00:45:10] Jim: Yeah, or in, in, in, in the case of, in the case of Tesla, they, who wants free energy when you can sell it and get rich, right?
Uh, yeah. Economy, the economy comes in and, uh, economic steps in and, and that’s why even today we talk about the possibility. That’s why three people in America, just three different people in America, uh, have more money than the bottom 80%. Everyone in America and, uh, the three people together, uh, add, add up all of our incomes and they just won’t even come close.
That’s, let’s face it, that’s wrong. Yeah. It, it just shouldn’t be. But that’s the way human beings are. We’re so involved in that, that twisted ego. Uh, I think ego can be a good thing because it’s what we come here to experience. Individuality can be a wonderful thing, but when it becomes twisted and when it becomes turns to narcissism, and when it turns to this fact that I have these billions and billions of dollars because somehow I deserve it, and then other people go hungry, uh, it’s, oh, it, it’s, it’s terrible.
[00:46:23] Jeremiah: Oh yeah. And now you see with the whole, uh, past two weeks have been crazy with like UFOs getting shot down and trees derailing and chemicals all over the place. It’s like, what the heck is going on? ? Yeah.
[00:46:36] Jim: Yeah. It, and, and of course the war in Ukraine is building up, I mean, uh, anybody what half a brain can see, we’re headed toward World War iii.
We better start planning on it because it’s coming just as sure as can be. And, uh, what really discourages me is now that for instance, COVID is behind us, I’m just amazed at the companies, the drug companies and the individual people and individual, um, corporate entities who found ways to tremendously.
During Covid and now with the war in Ukraine, we’ve got finding people who are finding ways to, uh, milk a tremendous profit out of this, uh, terrible tragedy that’s killing thousands and thousands of people there. I was supposed to go to, um, Turkey and lead a group over to ancient sites in Turkey when the Covid broke out, so I never could go.
Um, and we had to put it off for three years, and then when the group finally managed to get to get together and go, it was too late for me. I couldn’t do it anymore health-wise. And so, uh, when I read about that, uh, great, uh, catastrophe and a great, uh, earthquake over in, in Turkey and Syria, right where I would’ve been if I had been there at the right time.
And I was just, of course, immediately drawn to it. But then lo and behold, I discover that one of the reasons the tragedy was so bad was because corporations, uh, and companies were making money using shoddy materials, cutting corners and not doing what they should have been doing. Uh, the story of the human race.
We’ve done some wonderful things, but, uh, wow. You hold ’em up against what’s gone wrong and the history of wars and, uh, the history of senseless killing and power struggles. Uh, I, I don’t know. I, some of the things we’ve done have been wonderful, but. When you add it all up, I’m not sure that we have done more bad than we have Good.
Especially now that we’re affecting the climate of the whole planet and, and, um, all of the stuff that’s going on. I can’t believe the number of mass shootings that have been already this year, you know, more than one a day. What’s wrong with us ? You know, why can’t we experience some of that peace and joy that you did in your nde?
[00:49:01] Jeremiah: Oh yeah. I don’t know. We, we definitely. The human race is definitely like warlike and I don’t know, it seems like there’s, uh, a lot of people, the large percentage of people are just normal people trying to get by. It’s just that, you know, 10, 20%, that’s just like messing it up for everyone. is what it feels like.
[00:49:26] Jim: in, in terms of, uh, what we talked about at the beginning about Ancient Alien, uh, contact with, with, uh, with the world, you know, everybody talks about the great fairy paradox. You know, where are they, you know, um, if civilizations follow the kind of typical path that we have followed, they will probably destroy themselves.
they have the technology to get out into space because there will, in order that kind of technology means playing with very dangerous toys. But if they don’t destroy themselves, if they somehow manage to get through it and, uh, discover brand new technologies, perhaps even mental technologies that allow them to cover those vast distances, when they come to a planet like us, they’ve gotta say, wow, we, we just gotta watch these guys because, uh, they’re on the way to destruction.
And, uh, so many civilizations in the past have destroyed themselves and won’t be doing us any favors to let ’em go. So I, I, I’m not at all surprised that we, we don’t see them . Um, uh, I, I think we’re being watched. I, I really do. And, uh, quite frankly, I don’t blame them. But the power has gotta be in our own hands.
We either, we either straighten up and fly, right, or, or something’s wrong. Um, I, I find it fascinating that one of the first things we could do as soon as we could do it, as soon as we could invent a, uh, uh, a space rocket that would be able to take these unbelievable feats of technology out into space and just go.
Uh, the first time we started the whole Voyager thing, what did we do? We, we made a golden record, uh, of who we are with sounds of earth and pictures of Earth. And Carl Sagan really went into all of this. Basically the first thing we did was just announce to the universe out there, here we are, this is US
Um, and that’s probably a fairly typical, fairly common thing when life arises. It comes to that point. And I sometimes wonder if, uh, Even if we could discover a primitive so-called primitive, which would still be way ahead of war, we are, um, the equivalent of our voyager one in Voyager two. If we could discover that somehow and, and capture it and find out that there was another race out there that was capable of doing what, what we’ve done, um, I think that would even change us.
Uh, that would even make us say, wow, we’re not alone. Maybe we better shape up. I don’t know. I can hope. Can I ?
[00:52:02] Jeremiah: Yeah. See, I personally, this is my personal belief, I think that the whole aliens and UFOs stuff is interdimensional not so much from other outer space or whatever. That’s just my personal .
[00:52:14] Jim: I, I don’t, I wouldn’t doubt that a bit.
Uh, and it, it sounds fantastic to say it. But if Multidi, multidimensions, uh, if all these multi universes are multi multiverse or other dimensions, if they exist, and if people like you can experience them in an n d and people like me can experience out of body experiences, if we can do it from our side, why can’t they do it from.
And, uh, just because we don’t have that technology, I think it’s terribly self-centered and, and we’re full of hubris when we say it must not exist. No, I think interdimensional uh, travel is very possible. Uh, people say, well, how are we gonna travel with a speed of light? Well, speed of light is slow compared to the speed of thought.
And this is certainly nothing new. I mean, even it, it’s a scientific reality nowadays. It’s accepted all over the place. The whole idea of entanglement. You can take a particle on one side of the universe, a particle on the other side, put a top spin on one, and the other one will automatically right away begin a, a, a bottom spin.
They are connected no matter how far apart they are. Now, if, if particles are connected that far away, why can’t we who are made of particles be connected in that same way? And, uh, I think inter interdimensional reality is, is, is is not only true. I, I think it’s the wave of the future. It’s where we have to go.
That’s why I’m so fascinated to hear about, uh, remote viewing, for instance, that the military was involved in way back in the sixties, seventies. Um, and how about, uh, the whole idea of, um, well, E S P and, and, and people being connected, you know, you know, the telephone is gonna ring just before it rings, that kind of
[00:54:04] Jeremiah: thing.
Or you like talk about someone and they show up .
[00:54:07] Jim: Yeah.
[00:54:08] Jeremiah: Yeah. Or you think about someone and then they text you or call you. It’s like, how did they know?
[00:54:14] Jim: How did they know? Right. Yeah. I I I think it’s the, uh, it, it’s the next thing we really have to study and make it the wave of the future. Because I think here is where if we’re gonna survive, this is, these are the kinds of things we need to do it.
We really do.
[00:54:33] Jeremiah: Yeah. And this is just my crazy. Tim foil hack conspiracy thing, but like, what if the pyramids were actually some type of device that did that teleportation type stuff. Mm-hmm. , um, cuz you see those shafts that point out to the galaxy or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I wonder if there’s a way they found a way, way back then to like, like, make us into particles and just shoot us out in the space or something like that.
I don’t know. Well,
[00:55:00] Jim: yeah, yeah. You know, the, the pinpoint accuracy to certain stars, uh, at, you know, certain times whether or not we just accept this, the, the scientific way of going about it is to ex accept at least the possibility of it. But that isn’t even, that hasn’t got into our science rooms yet, our, our laboratories yet.
Instead it’s just dismissing it right out of hand. Um, that’s not good. It’s not scientific. . Um, there are great questions which have to be answered, and we just can’t sweep ’em under the rug. We’re right back to it again. We have forgotten who we are. Uh, I think the old timers who didn’t have our kinds of materialistic technology probably had a kind of technology that, uh, we don’t understand.
Uh, and I’m sure it had to do more with mental ability than, uh, physical ability. How did they build those pyramids? Nobody knows. How, how did they build those great megalithic structures? All we can do is guess. Um, how did so-called primitive people wake up one day and decide, I’m gonna build a Gobekli Tepi, or I’m gonna build a Caron tepi.
Um, we just don’t know. And, uh, so ob but obviously they were. . So unless we’re gonna say that they were done completely by people who come down from outer space, which I don’t think, you know, we necessarily have to go along with, we have to say that perhaps our ancestors, uh, knew something that we don’t, and they were in touch with forces that we don’t know.
And if we can wake those forces up, oh, we could, we could change the world again. Yeah. And I think
[00:56:40] Jeremiah: it’s part of our ego as humans too. Like to Yeah, yeah. Have the hubris to think that we’re the end all, be all, and we’re the yeah, we’re the most advanced and we’re the most, uh, greatest of our time and stuff like that.
And kind of discount like the primitive people and what they’ve known. Like, yeah, they might not have had computers or, uh, cell phones or whatever, but who’s to say they didn’t have other forms of, you know, were even. Yeah, like manipulating, like I’ve heard theories of sound using sound to raise objects and also like ways of liquefying stone to mold it into place.
And so they might’ve had just totally different ways to do things.
[00:57:24] Jim: Yeah, yeah. It, and, and the close mindedness. Uh, a couple years ago, uh, I had, uh, went on a private field trip. I was researching, uh, the mound building culture, uh, for a book I was writing. And so I went down to where it all began down to Louisiana and, uh, poverty Point and some of those places down there.
And I wa there was one museum especially that I really wanted to see. I really wanted to spend time at this place cuz it was where it all started. The whole idea of the mound building culture in the united. So I went in and, uh, um, I got there the night before because I really wanted to spend all day on, on the grounds, you know, boots on the ground, so to speak.
So I was the first one into the museum where this archeologist, this young archeologist right outta school. And, uh, he was, you know, a little full of himself, you know, like we all were when we were that age and thought we knew everything. And, uh, I didn’t wanna, you know, insult him or argue with him. This was his home as a matter of fact.
So, uh, just to be, you know, make conversation. Uh, Graham Hancock’s book called America Before had just come out the spring before, and so I said, uh, boy, you must get a lot of visitors down here now that, now that Graham Hancock has put your place on the map in his book. Oh, this scientist who was supposed to be an objective archeologist, he pulled himself up, huffed himself up to his full height, and he said, I’ve never read any of Graham Hancock’s books,
And I said, oh, how come? And he said, because this was his scientific opinion Now. Because Graham Hancock is an idiot, , that that was his justification for keeping his mind closed to any ideas that Graham Hancock might have had, no matter how much evidence is, was in the book. And America before is full of evidence of America being a lot older than we did.
But this was Guy, he was right outta school and he was an archeologist, and he had just earned his degree and this was his first job. By golly, he wasn’t gonna open his mind to anything that wasn’t in his textbooks when he went to school, , it just wasn’t gonna happen. Oh. . That’s a terrible thing.
[00:59:36] Jeremiah: Yeah. And, uh, Graham Hancock just came out with that documentary series on Netflix or whatever.
Yes. Wasn’t that, wasn’t that something, man, the backlash he’s got from that. Oh, it’s like .
[00:59:46] Jim: He’s, he’s born the slings and arrows aimed at all of us. You know? Really? Uh, I just feel so bad for him. Um, I, a couple of times I’ve written books in the past and I almost hope that nobody reads ’em, because , I know what’s gonna happen if they do.
And it’s happened to me too. People don’t know anything about me. Will write reviews of books that I’ve written or something like that. And, uh, I’ll, you know, I don’t know anything. Or they’ll nitpick on some little thing, which I may not have, you know, known at the time or whatever. Uh, it’s a, it’s a terrible thing, but it’s, that’s the way the world
[01:00:20] Jeremiah: works.
It’s, but I’m glad, I’m glad he’s doing it cause uh, I think it’s important. And I think that information needs to get out there, and I really do think a lot more people are becoming more open-minded because of stuff coming out like that.
[01:00:34] Jim: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s why I like programs like yours so much. It used to be that if you had an idea, unless you got peer reviewed and, and, uh, encouraged by your colleagues in, in academia, no one ever heard about it.
But now we’ve got the internet, we’ve got television programs like that, that, uh, series that Graham Hancock did, and a lot of other such things, a history channel and a lot of those things, which is able to do an end run around academia, so to speak. Uh, and, um, I’m, I, I don’t know if I’ll live to see it, but I sense the sa the same kind of sea change that, uh, that you just talked about.
I’m hoping it happens in my lifetime, but we’ll see.
[01:01:18] Jeremiah: Yeah, I feel like we’re at a precipice now of like, yeah, yeah. Either we’re gonna cause our own destruction or we’re gonna pivot and do something different. . Yeah. Yeah. Well, let’s hope it’s the latter
[01:01:32] Jim: here. Here’s hoping. So we can, we can, uh, we can finish on a, on a, on a strong note.
I hope I haven’t been too negative throughout this whole thing, but , uh, I, I, I really appreciate that we have a chance to, you at least finish our conversation on a, uh, um, a much positive spin, more
[01:01:50] Jeremiah: positive spin . So yeah, everyone listening, uh, make sure you’d pivot to do better. .
[01:01:57] Jim: There you go.
[01:01:59] Jeremiah: There you go.
But yeah, thank you for coming on and, um, like I said, I’ll link your website in the, uh, show notes so that people can get there quickly and hopefully they can, uh, get some of your books and information and super keep spreading in.
[01:02:16] Jim: Yeah. I also, uh, if, if you go to the webpage, uh, jim willis.net, uh, on the, you’ll also see links down there to my web, my YouTube page, and my Facebook page.
And, uh, I have a YouTube page that has a lot of videos on these particular kinds of things. And, um, uh, if, if you could send me an, or, you know, I guess you’ve got Jan’s email, if you could send her a copy of that, uh, of your N D e I would really appreciate that. When the book comes out, I’d, I’d love to contact you and see if maybe you can even gimme a little, you know, if you like it, give me a recommendation for it too.
I think that would be super.
[01:02:53] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, for sure. I’ll, um, I’ll write out my whole experience and I’ll email it to Jan and, oh, thank. And you can use it in your book. That’s fine. .
[01:03:02] Jim: Oh, great. great. I’ll, I will give you total credit. Don’t worry about that .
[01:03:07] Jeremiah: Yeah. But yeah, thank you for coming on. It was great talk.
Um, I’ll have to tap you back on again cuz I’m sure we could talk about a lot more .
[01:03:14] Jim: Oh, I’d love to, love to. Jeremiah, it’s been a, been a real pleasure. Thank you so much.