Soul Sisters Kris Sumner
[00:00:00] Jeremiah: Hello, my fellow, terrestrials coming to you from an RV deep in the Carolina mountains. Welcome to the what if their wrong podcast, the podcast that wants you to question everything. Your reality is about to be shattered.
Hello, my fellow terrestrials and welcome back. We have a great episode. Up ahead. This episode was actually selected by you, the audience. I did a poll and this episode is the winner. I’ll do more polls in the future. This is the first, uh, attempt. So I think, uh, we’re all gonna enjoy it regardless, cuz I had a great conversation with Chris Sumner and she runs soul sisters, a uh, paranormal and ghost investigation group and she has a doctorate and she also goes about ghost investigations in a non dramatized way.
So everything that she does, she sets up cameras, sensors, everything like that, uh, records data around the area, making sure that there’s no chance of something being picked up. That is actually something else. So a lot of her findings are truly unexplained. So we’re gonna get to talking to her about that, but first, if you like the show and you like the content, if you could subscribe or follow that way, whenever a new episode drops you’ll know right away, it’ll get downloaded.
You’ll be able to enjoy all the great content. I have a lot of great content coming out. So definitely subscribe. Also, if you can rate and review the show, be highly appreciated. Just helps out with the show. Let me know that you’re liking it. So let’s get with Chris Sumner and get a little spooky and remember question everything.
Hello, and welcome to the what if the wrong podcast, I’m your host, Jeremiah. And I’m joined today by Christie from the soul sisters paranormal podcast, or she has a website too that has videos and everything. And, uh, she and her sister set out on. Ghost investigations. I don’t really like saying ghost hunts, cuz it just sounds funny or like cheesy, you know, so ghost investigations and paranormal investigations.
So I’ll introduce her now. Hello.
[00:02:43] Kris: Hi Jeremiah. How you doing tonight?
[00:02:45] Jeremiah: Good. How are you?
[00:02:46] Kris: I’m fantastic. Thank you for having me.
Yes. Thanks for coming on. And speaking with us, I’m sure you got a lot of stories to tell us and talk about . Oh yeah, absolutely. And I looked into some of your stuff, but my audience obviously might not know.
So, um, if I ask something it’s for the good of everybody,
absolutely. Let’s let’s do this. So
[00:03:10] Jeremiah: I wanted to start with cuz it’s something that I don’t hear a lot of in the paranormal sector, but I think you touched on it a few times and uh, that’s like children, ghosts and children spirits and. Have you encountered any and what is your take on, on the whole thing with like kids?
Cuz my brother, he says the only thing that really scares him is like hearing little kids in horror movies or kids singing and uh, so they definitely add like an extra element to the whole thing. And uh, so I just wanted to get your take on, you know, children, ghost children’s spirits and what, uh, what you think it all entails.
[00:03:54] Kris: absolutely. So, um, to, to answer the first question, yes, we have encountered, uh, the spirit of children. Um, a and, and for me, when we go into these investigations, a again, soul sister’s paranormal is made up of myself and primarily my twin sister, but our younger sister, and then some female family, friends join us as well.
So we’re an all female group. And I think that an all female group, um, tends to lead toward a little bit more empathy. I’m not gonna say that we’re empathic per se, but more empathy. And I think that allows children’s spirits to be more comfortable, um, a, around an all female team, probably more so than they would an all male team or a co-ed team.
Um, so we have encountered children’s spirits. One that really sticks out is when we were investigating, uh, the exchange hotel in Gordonsville, Virginia. Now this is a, uh, it was. Before the civil war as a hotel, a three story hotel, um, because it sits right on a railroad junction there in Gordonsville, uh, during the civil war, it was recommissioned into a civil war hospital that saw both, um, Confederate and union soldiers.
And there’s about 700 verified deaths during that conflict that happened in that hospital. So it’s a very active location, but there’s also the reports of a child named Jeremiah that inhabits that, uh, that hotel. So when we went there it’s was, it’s not you, it’s not, it’s not you. No, . Um, so when we went to that investigation, there were five females there.
And, um, myself and my friend, Kim, uh, we were the only two in the house at the time. The rest were in the summer kitchen, which is another building on the property. She and I were the only two people in, in the actual hotel portion. And so we tried to make contact with, with little Jeremiah. We sat in a hallway about, we were probably about 10 feet away from each other.
Facing each other and we had our legs, you know, pointing outward. We had a glow in the dark ball and we both had K two meters in front of us. I said, you know, Jeremiah, if you’re here, will you light up the lights in front of me? And I’ll roll this ball down to Kim. My lights lit up.
They indicated that some energy was acting on it. And so I rolled the ball down to Kim and Kim asked the same question. She said, now, if you’re in front of me, Light up the lights in front of me, use your energy and I’ll roll the ball back to Christie. And so it did. So he did that and we, we went back and forth with this game for probably about 15 or 20 minutes.
Just adjacent to that hallway was a bedroom where it was set up to look like an old time hotel. We had a voice recorder on the bed, in that room. Later on during the night we captured a child’s voice saying, hi, this is my bed, which does two things. One, it shows that there’s a level of intelligence because I think he was speaking to the voice recorder saying, Hey, why are you on my bed?
This is my bed. And two, it validated that there was a child spirit there because we obviously have no children on the team. And so that was a very interesting, um, one interaction and then two, uh, a voice, uh, a recorder that we caught on the, a recording that we caught on the voice recorder. Um, and so for me, When we do, when we do these investigations, we go in with the premise really on three theories, right?
That’s that spirits are here for, for three reasons. One, they have unfinished business. Um, there’s something that has to be fulfilled before they can ascend to what’s ever next. The second is fear of retribution, which I think this is why we see a lot of spirits in jails and prisons, because they’re afraid of what’s gonna happen next, based on the life that they lived on earth.
And the third is they don’t understand how to get to the next realm. And I think that’s why we see children a lot. Um, they, they may or may not know that they’re actually dead, but either way they can’t find that light or they can’t find the way to get to the next realm. And I think that’s why they’re there.
We have, um, you know, the exchange hotel was a great example of a child spirit. Also communicated one in, uh, ha bar dam, which is located in Tennessee. Had several instances where we communicated with children.
[00:08:02] Jeremiah: Yeah. I always wondered. what that all was all about. Like, cuz like I said, when I look into paranormal stuff and I haven’t been doing it like all that long, but a lot of times you just hear about like the older people, like spirits and ghosts and uh, not too much focus on like the kid aspect.
So mm-hmm I wanted to get your take on that whole thing. And then I saw you had a video on your website where you went to an elementary.
[00:08:31] Kris: mm-hmm yeah, yeah. Post town elementary and post town, Ohio. Um, that was interesting. Uh, you know, that, um, a lot of the theories about why that elementary school is haunted is really based on one native American stories and then two, uh, railroad accidents, train accidents that happened in close proximity to, uh, to that elementary school really before the school was actually, um, built, there was a couple of train accidents.
But, we did have a lot of activity in that location. Honestly, I don’t feel that anything that we were communicating with that night was a child spirit. We captured several EVPs that were extreme. Interesting EVPs, um, that seemed to in, uh, indicate an intelligent response. None of them were children’s spirits.
Um, we think one was maybe a teenage girl, uh, and, and then the others were mostly what we feel were male, um, uh, like men. Um, those were a couple of the EVPs that we captured as well. So while it was an interesting experience, um, the, the, the indications that we got was there wasn’t really a lot of children activity, at least on the night that we investigated.
Um, but there was definitely something going on in that, uh, that elementary school.
[00:09:48] Jeremiah: Yeah. When, uh, I was watching it till one part kind of freaked me out, cuz I wasn’t. I think I went to do something else cuz I was like making dinner or something and I look, and there’s like a painting of some kid that’s like this and I was like, oh my gosh.
Yeah. And I thought that was like something you caught on film. And then I realized it was just a painting.
[00:10:11] Kris: Yeah. This little statue thing that he’s got stuck in a corner. Um, and the weird thing is, is it’s it’s in this corner where you, when you turn left, like it’s right there. So that when we were doing our walkthrough, um, during the day it scared the be Jesus outta me.
Um, you know, I actually said a couple of choice words because of it was sitting there. Um, but yeah, it, uh, it’s definitely one of those things. It’s like, why is this? Even here? It sits out right, right outside the doll room.
[00:10:38] Jeremiah: Yeah. I just, uh, I looked over and I was like, oh my gosh, because it looks creepy. So
[00:10:44] Kris: it it’s very creepy in the day and more, especially in the night.
[00:10:49] Jeremiah: I saw, I forget who was standing next to it, but I was like, it’s right next to you. But then I realized it was just a painting
[00:10:58] Kris: yeah. So post down is a very interesting location.
[00:11:02] Jeremiah: And then, um, I interviewed Jess king, uh, I don’t know if you know her, but she, um, she’s a medium and she went to a elementary school in Alabama and they got a lot of like negative vibes from it.
And, um, like they said, like a lot of bad stuff was going on there. Um, cuz it was like, I guess like a church and then a school. And I don’t know, I have deep history, so it seems like a lot of places that have a lot of history tend to have, you know, ghost activity.
[00:11:38] Kris: Mm-hmm . Yeah. And that, and that’s one of the really, that’s one of the things that we love about what we do, um, is because we get to go to these historical locations, we get to have that very tactile experience with these locations that a lot of people don’t really get the opportunity to enjoy.
Um, you know, not many people can say they’ve stayed in, you know, the SKAs murder house or the Lindsay Borden house, or the St. Augustine lighthouse, but we get to actually do that. And then what we wanna do is really tell that historical narrative to our audience. Uh, that’s why, if you watch any of our videos, you know, the first three to five minutes is really a deep dive into the, his, into the history.
And then we couple that with the paranormal activity that we find in those locations, um, so to your point, history to us is extremely important and really the catalyst as to why we do this.
[00:12:24] Jeremiah: Yeah. So like, um, you have like some prisons and stuff on there. And I wanted to talk about that too, because my fiance works for jail and she’s had some ghost experiences and it’s not even.
And abandoned jail. It’s still filled with prisoners. So mm-hmm but they seem to be, you know, a hotbed too, cuz you have inmates who kill themselves or get killed by another inmate or uh, whatever reason. So mm-hmm uh, what kind of places prison wise have you been. uh, what have you experienced?
[00:13:00] Kris: Well, coincidentally enough, I’m currently sitting in the historic Scott county jail in Huntsville, Tennessee.
Um, so this is a jail that was built in 1904. It was an operation as a jail until 2008. And then it said vacant until last year when my business partner Miranda young from goes bike explorations. She and I formed a company called history highways and Hauns, and we opened a museum as well as a paranormal research center inside this jail.
And so to your point, when we first opened, uh, last year in September of 2021, um, we. We’re getting reports from deputies that used to work here saying, you know, when I worked in the jail, when there was inmates here, when I worked there, um, we would hear footsteps when all the inmates were in their cells.
Uh, the elevator would start running up and down on its own when nobody was there. Um, we had a woman who was in dispatch. She got on the elevator one night by herself and something coughed in her ear and she never rode the elevator again. So. Jails and prisons are definitely I, in my mind, a hotbed for paranormal activity, simply because to your point, there is a lot of violence.
There is suicides, right? There is natural deaths, especially in a jail like this one, which has this long history spanning almost 120 years. Um, there were natural deaths. Um, we had one of our sheriffs in 1925. He was actually shot and killed right here in the front door. It’s still an unsolved murder.
We do believe his spirit is here inside the jail. For us, it on a routine basis, I mean, daily, we will hear doors slamming upstairs footsteps. Um, whistling seems to be an interesting phenomena that we’ve really started to capture here. Um, you know, we’ll just be sitting here at the desk working and something will whistle behind us, even though we’re the only people here.
And, um, so you know, it, it, there is, there is a lot of just trauma and violence and. It’s it’s, it’s not really a happy place. Most people that are in the jail or prison, aren’t there because they’re, they’re in a happy state in their life. Um, so you have all of that energy. And for me, I really believe it just permeates into the walls.
We have a lot of residuals here. At night you’ll hear footsteps, just pacing upstairs on the third floor, which was maximum security. Their residual to us because we’ll be standing there and you’ll hear them and we’ll say, hello, hello. Is anybody there? And they just keep on walking.
Like they don’t even hear us. Um, but then we have intelligence. Um, we will, uh, be upstairs asking questions and, uh, we’ll get intelligent responses upstairs on the second and the third floor as well. So for me, I love jails. I love prisons. Um, they’re probably, to me the best investigations that we’ve gone on.
[00:15:43] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, for sure. And my fiance tells me stories too. Like she’ll be walking down a. I don’t know what you call a corridor, I guess. And mm-hmm, , she’d hear a door slam shut, and there’s no one there and , uh, voices talking to her, but there’s no one wherever she’s located at the time. And mm-hmm, uh, like, so she, yeah, she tells me all about her jail ghost experience.
So , I Def there’s definitely something going on. And I think a lot of ghosts, like you said, are, um, when they have like a trauma based death, it seems like they seem to hang around a lot more then if they go peacefully. So mm-hmm yeah. She, she’s always talking about, uh, inmates on suicide watch and all that stuff.
And then of course, on tough her jail, isn’t that bad as far as like inmate on inmate violence, but mm-hmm, , there’s obviously prisons where, you know, people get killed and so yeah, definitely. Um, would breed that type of environment.
[00:16:52] Kris: Yeah. And to your point, I really, I, I think it does, like I said, um, it’s almost like it, it just kind of permeates, um, you know, there’s like certain things that have happened at least at least here in this jail, and I’m sure in other jails across the country, um, we’ve had the suicides, we’ve had people that self harm, right.
That, uh, that wanna just go out for, to try to get out for a day to go to the hospital. Um, here there was inmate violence, um, simply because they had no exercise yard or any outside exposure, um, until 1996, when an outside wreck yard, a small one was, was, um, put out constructed in the back. Um, but up until that time, you know, 24 hours a day they’re jail cell was their environment.
And so it, to me, you know, jails and prisons to your point are really just those hotbed of paranormal activity. Simply for that reason. You know, we’ve investigated brushing mountain state penitentiary, which is about 45 minutes from here, um, in Petros, Tennessee, we’ve been there a couple of times, and that’s a great place to investigate because we have both residual and intelligent hauntings there.
We captured footsteps door slamming. At the same time we were capturing voices that were telling us, Hey, I’m here or I’m behind you, or I warned you, those sort of things. We’ve captured full bodied apparitions, um, on, on camera and on, uh, and on video. So there’s a lot of things that happen in jails and prisons.
And like I said to me, it it’s all fascinating.
[00:18:21] Jeremiah: So when you go out with your team, um, is it just you and your sisters, or do you have other people that go with.
[00:18:30] Kris: Well, we started in 2013 as a team of five. So myself, my twin sister, our younger sister, and two female family friends. And, um, our first couple of years, we were that team of five, everywhere that we went, you know, there were the five of us that would go really just then, you know, through a series of life events and COVID and all of that.
Um, we, it, it’s just easier travel and logistic wise to allow Jenny my twin, um, Jenny and I to really do the, the primary investigations for the team. Now, the others will join when they can. Um, but you know, one got a new job and moved to Colorado. One had a grandbaby. So it’s just one of those things that life just kind of plays a role in this as well.
So primarily for the last two years it’s been Jenny and myself.
[00:19:15] Jeremiah: So when you go out to do these investigations, what kind of like tools and equipment and stuff do you use? Cuz people might not people listening might not know like all the different. Terminology and all the equipment. So what kind of stuff do you guys use to, I’ve heard of like dowsing rods, I think is one mm-hmm and some other stuff.
So just interesting to hear what people use .
[00:19:42] Kris: Sure, absolutely. So the first thing for us, when we go in an investigation, we go in with a mindset of actually trying to de. The location first. And by that, I mean, we go in for a day tour before our investigation and we’ll look at all of the things that environmentally we feel could influence the investigation.
So we look for streetlights, we look for traffic patterns for airline patterns, trains nearby dogs, nearby kid nearby, anything like that, that during our investigation, if we hear those things, we can say, okay, we think it’s this rather than something paranormal. So we, the, from the very get go, we go in with a scientific mindset of really trying to disprove things first.
Um, and then we also take notes on where we want to leave stationary equipment when we do the nighttime investigation. So when we go in and do the nighttime invest. we set up, uh, static, uh, or stationary voice recorders as well as stationary night vision video cameras. The reason we do that is because we want eyes and ears on as much of the location as we can.
So even if we’re not in a particular room or in a particular hallway, we have night vision, video cameras and voice recorders recording in those hallways or rooms. Um, and so then we set all of that up. We all have voice recorders on us as well. We have body cameras, um, night vision, body cameras that really give us a timestamp of where everybody is during the investigation.
So if, say an, uh, we capture a noise in a hallway at 10 o’clock at night, I will go back and cross reference where everybody is based on those body cameras and make sure it’s not one of us causing that noise or that anomaly. So we have that. Um, we, then we have pieces of equipment that we called our, our handheld equipment that will take with us.
the first thing we have are what we call K two meters. And these were essentially created for electricians to find electrical outlets or electrical circuits in a room. Um, and basically they’re radio or, um, uh, electronic frequency meters. Um, uh, so they measure electromagnetic energy. And so the idea is that if you believe that spirits are made up of energy, that excuse.
That if there’s no energy or power in a location, yet something acts upon these pieces of equipment. Then that’s something that we can say, okay, there may be a spirit acting on that. Um, so we have K2 meters that we take with us. Um, we have another device called a REM pod, which is a proximity meter as well.
It has an alarm system. It also me measures temperature variations. So again, the idea being, if a spirit approaches it or energy approaches it, it will alarm and indicate that something is acting on it. Um, we have. Um, a camera called an SLS camera and generally speaking, it is a modified camera that has an algorithm on it.
That when you sweep it around a room, it looks like if it perceives a human in the room, it puts it as a stick figure on the screen. Um, so the idea being that even if nothing is in the room, if the camera perceives a human in the room or a spirit in the room, it will display it as a stick figure on the screen.
Uh, we have a device called a spirit box, which generally speaking is an am MFM radio. That’s been modified to very quickly sweep through frequencies. When you turn it on and, and start the sweep, what we call the sweep rate, it sounds like as it’s running through these frequencies, the idea is that spirits can use the white noise to communicate with us.
Essentially speaking through the static and. We use that in, let’s see, um, flashlights, we use flashlights for various experiments. Um, and then we also pride ourselves on taking what we call trigger items. So these are items that we talk about and we take with us and in some cases create, um, to take into a locations, to get a spirit, to communicate with us.
So for example, when we go into a jail or a prison, We’ll take things like cigarettes, um, whiskey, uh, water, something like that, again, to say, you know, these are for you, we’re gonna leave them for you. Will you communicate with us because of that? Um, like for example, when we went into, uh, West Virginia state penitentiary, there was an inmate there, very bad guy.
His name was red Snyder. He was the leader of the Arian brotherhood. Um, just, he was in there for murder. He was in solitary confinement and his two vices in life were tobacco and watching days of our lives. So every day they’d wheel a television in, they’d let him watch days of our lives and then they’d wheel a television away.
So he actually ended up getting killed in prison. And I think 1993 is when he was killed. Anyway. So, what we did is we downloaded an episode of days of our lives on our laptop, took it in into his cell and said, okay, this is for you. We’re gonna leave it run and you watch it and we’ll be back later. So when we came back, um, the, the episode had ended and the battery on the laptop had drained and we walked in and we said, did you see what you, what we left for you?
And he said, yes, we got over a voice saying, yes. Um, so we, we take trigger items like that as well. And, um, so that really kind of rounds out some of the equipment that we have.
[00:24:55] Jeremiah: Yeah. And I was gonna ask about the whole, um, I think it’s called EVP mm-hmm is that what it is? Yeah. Um, and like you said, you trapped voices and stuff like that on video.
And, um, yeah, I first heard about that. There was a movie back in the, I don’t know, nineties, early two thousands. And, um, it was. They were still using VHS tapes cuz right. They were still a thing. And uh, it was all about the EVP phenomenon. So you have captured, um, like voices on film or audio equipment.
[00:25:34] Kris: Oh yeah, absolutely.
So an EVP stands for electronic voice phenomena and essentially what that is. It’s it’s CA the capturing of a voice or a disembodied voice, um, on a piece of electronic equipment. And in some of these cases, you can hear them in the moment and some, and some, we don’t hear in the moment, but when we go back and we listen to our voice recorders, we found that we’ve captured something.
Um, for example, my sister and I, uh, about three, no about four weeks ago, we investigated the USS North Carolina in, uh, in North Carolina. It’s a battleship. We were rec obviously recording. As we’re walking through this bulkhead, um, I step over. and I turn around and I say, Hey, we’re going to look at Jenny.
I say, we’re gonna go in here. So I turn to the left. She’s stepping over the bulkhead, we captured a man’s voice saying, watch your arm. Her and I, the only two people on the entire ship. Yet we captured this male voice saying, watch your arm. Now we didn’t hear it in the moment. But when I went back, when I was going through and listening to that audio, it’s clearly a male’s voice.
Um, another example would be when we investigated the grand old lady hotel, which is located in BSSO North Carolina. Now this is a three story hotel. It was built in 1905 as part of the rare race railroad. and it’s a grand hotel. Like I said, it’s got three stories. It’s got a hundred guest rooms, a big ballroom, um, a great big kitchen.
Uh, it it’s just a really ornate hotel. And so when we were there, we were there for an entire weekend and we had the complete run of the hotel. We were the only people on the property for that weekend. And so it was myself, my twin sister, Jenny and Miranda from ghost biker explorations. And so on Saturday night, we decided to sleep in the, a room on the third floor, which was a suite that essentially had two rooms, right.
There was an interior room and an exterior room and only the exterior room had a door into the hallway. So we had the door closed and we had a, a night vision video camera on the outside of the door and a night vision video camera on the inside of the door. So you see Miranda in that, that room. You see her get into bed and you hear us say goodnight.
And about 15 minutes later, a voice outside the door, a male’s voice says, please don’t. It’s extremely loud and Miranda said, did y’all hear that? I said, yes. She said, what did that sound like? There’s a man outside our door. That’s what I thought too. Um, so that’s an example of us hearing it in the moment and we actually captured it on everything that was recording in that area.
Um, but there was nobody there cuz you can see obviously from the two cameras that nothing approaches that door. And we had complete control of that hotel. Like I said, there was nobody else on the property that night.
[00:28:24] Jeremiah: Yeah. I like how you guys go about it in like, uh, I don’t wanna say scientific way, but like you try to go about it without making it like fabricated or like, you know, how you see on the TV shows like they see something or they don’t even see anything.
And they’re like, oh my gosh. And they run away and you’re like, I didn’t even see anything. Why are you running? And but I like how you guys come at it. Like we wanna. Make sure this is correct. And that mm-hmm, , uh, what we’re experiencing is real and not, you know, something to boost, you know, our ratings or to like, you know what I’m saying?
So mm-hmm, I like how you guys do that.
[00:29:09] Kris: Well, I, I, Jeremiah, I appreciate you saying that. Uh, and that’s really one of the things that, you know, when we started doing this, uh, in 2013, we really wanted to try to the best of our ability to elevate paranormal investigations into a more professional realm. Um, you know, we’re still obviously seen as a subculture, but we wanted to say, okay, we’re gonna be very upfront with what we do and how we do it.
And we do take a scientific approach because, you know, we feel that we want to really make sure that the conversation about paranormal investigations is one that is more scientific, right? Not just this, you know, oh, I feel something or it’s a cold spot because that doesn’t relate to an audience, right.
An audience can’t feel a cold spot, but. If I say, I feel a cold spot and I’m getting an EVP and I’m getting indications that there’s energy here. That’s a little bit different, right? That that’s something that we can translate to our audience. And I understand that for television, there does have to be a sense of sensationalism, right?
Those TV shows, they ha their entire reason for being is to build an audience. But for us, we want to, to show that this is what we feel a real investigation is. It’s, it’s not this instantaneous gratification, right. We’re sitting in a location for sometimes 24 to 48 hours. And we’re literally just talking to the air, trying to get some type of a response.
Um, And, and another thing that we don’t do is we don’t monetize, uh, have people ask why we don’t monetize our YouTube channel. And it’s for that very reason, right? I don’t want somebody to come back and say, well, you’re just presenting this, this, you know, this thing. Um, or these voices, you’re making it up to get more hits, to get more money.
And we don’t do that. Right. We don’t monetize for that very reason. I don’t wanna give the appearance that we’re putting this out there just to get hits or just to get subscribers or money. Um, what we do is really, as I said before, want to highlight these historical locations for preservation purposes and then say, okay, while we were there in this very interesting historical location, we captured these things that we couldn’t explain in the moment.
[00:31:18] Jeremiah: Yeah. I like that. I like that approach. And. That’s what I try to, well, I know my show covers various topics, but I try to come at it. Like I’m not preaching to anybody. I’m not trying to tell you what to believe. I just want my guest to present what they know. And then it’s up to the person listening to decide, you know, what they wanna take from it and what they wanna do.
And I’ve always put links for everything. So if they want to go check it out for themselves, they can. And so I like that approach. Definitely. So let’s get into some more places that you’ve been. Cuz I wrote some down here. Sure. Um, that really interested me. Mm-hmm and the one was the ax
[00:32:00] Kris: house. Yeah. The Vale ex murder house.
[00:32:04] Jeremiah: yeah. Can you kind of explain like what that was about and what you experienced?
[00:32:09] Kris: Sure. Absolutely. So, um, the ska acts murder house is located in ska Iowa. And this was the scene of the 1912 murders, the acts murders of an, of an entire family, the Moore family. Um, so, uh, what happened very quickly to summarize the, uh, the story is in 1912, there was a family that owned the farmhouse, the Moore family.
So it was, uh, Josiah Moore and his wife, Sarah, and then they had four, four kids. And this night, um, of the murders, they actually had two other kids staying over. There was a church function that they had attended and there was two girls staying over as well. um, ina and, and Lena Stiller. They had come back from this family function and they had all gone to bed.
Apparently a man had been hiding in the attic that they didn’t know about. During the night he snuck outta the attic and he ended up killing Josiah and Sarah Moore, as they slept in their beds, he killed them with an ax. He basically mutilated their faces and then he went and killed the six kids.
And, um, so after he killed them, he did some strange things. He covered the mirrors in the house. Um, he washed his hands in the kitchen, but he left the blood there. Um, he also put a slab of bacon on the table and he smoked some cigarettes and then he left. He left the acts there as well. So they did find the acts and then he left and it’s still an unsolved murder.
Nobody knows who committed this heinous crime against his family. And. So the reports obviously have been since the murders that the house was haunted. And so when we went, um, it, we, there was five of us. And if you see the house on television shows and such. It looks a little bit larger than it is. We’re talking a very small country farmhouse in the middle of Iowa.
And so when we did the investigation, um, even though there were five of us, we only went in as a subset. So two of us would go in or three of us would go in because we felt five was just too much to have in the SI in the house at the same time. And so we, uh, we went about our routine. We set up our stationary voice recorders.
We set up our, our night vision, video cameras. And then we went in and we started what we call EVP sessions. Basically we go in and we sit down, we ask questions and we try to get responses. And so we had several things that we couldn’t explain. There was one instance where, um, uh Carra and Kim were walking up the stairs to the second floor and we had a voice recorder in the attic.
And as you, as you hear them walking up the stairs, a man’s voice in the attic says. Downstairs where the girls are sleeping. And so two things, one, there were no men in the house, so I’m not sure where that voice came from. And two ina and Lena stinger were killed downstairs in the bedroom downstairs.
They, they were the only two downstairs. That was kind of interesting. It’s it, to me, it was almost like a residual saying downstairs where the girls were sleeping. That was kind of interesting. Um, and then there was one instance where Jenny and Michelle were in the kids’ room where the four more, more children were killed.
They’re in the room and they’re sitting down on the floor and they’re asking questions. When they’re done, they stand up and Michelle kind of grabs, you see her on the camera, grab her forehead. She said, oh, when I, when I stood up, my head just started hurting and Jenny’s like, okay, let’s get you outside.
Let’s get you some water. And as they leave the room, we captured a child’s voice saying I didn’t do that. Kind of like, I didn’t give her the headache. Um, which was kind of interesting as well. And then, um, we had some very interesting K two hits what we call K2 hits, um, which indicated that some type of energy was acting on our K2 meters, um, that we can’t explain.
It was actually very intelligent. Um, cuz we have one gray meter in one black meter and we were saying. can you just go to the black one and that one would light up. Can you just go to the gray one and that one light up and so through a series of different questions? Um, we, we think we’re talking to the spirit of Sarah more, which was the mother.
And, um, so for us it was a great investigation. Uh, we had a great time going out to, uh, to Iowa to investigate that location. And really just to be in that, that house where so much tragedy had occurred.
[00:36:22] Jeremiah: Yeah. That sounds like a brutal story. And mm-hmm unfortunately they didn’t find who did it cuz um, that would, yeah, that’s pretty bad.
There was a kid, I don’t know how old he was. I think he was like 18 or 19. Uh, this was a long time ago when I was living in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and, uh, Christmas morning or was a Christmas Eve morning. One of those mornings, he, uh, killed his whole family and uh, then they, they caught him though. And.
Ended up going to the prison. And I knew someone that worked at the Lancaster prison and they said like, that kid was such a, like a-hole . Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I mean, you would have to be. Yeah. So yeah, I can only imagine what kind of trauma would happen that would keep, you know, the ghosts and residual stuff there.
And mm-hmm, the fact that you get these voices and male voices and they’re, it’s a full female team. So I mean, how do you explain that? You know exactly. And then, yeah, just, uh, it’s pretty incredible, uh, like hearing, I mean, I don’t like that people died, but I like the hearing, the stories and, uh, things that were actually, you know, caught instead of, you know, some of these, I hate to rag on all these shows all the time, but like where.
They’ll be looking at something and there’s absolutely nothing going on and they just like, get scared and run or whatever and it’s like, what the heck? Right. But yeah, to actually have like real evidence is mm-hmm is definitely a plus. So then, um, I have here and I hope I pronounce it correctly. The Lizzy Bordain, the
[00:38:15] Kris: Lizzy Borden house or Borden house.
Yeah. Lizzy Borden. Um, so this, this house, again, this was on our bucket list for a while. This was, um, in fall rivers, Massachusetts, and this is the site of the 1892 murders of Andrew and Abby Borden. And so the story is that Lizzy Borden and, uh, and her sister, they lived with their dad, Andrew and their stepmother, uh, Abby in this house in fall rivers and in, in 19, th in 1892, um, both Andrew and Abby were bludgeon to death again with an a, um, Andrew was hit in the face, I think 16 times and Abby was hit in the face 13 times.
Um, now the interesting thing about this is Lizzy Borden was actually in the house. And so they arrested her for the murder. She was 32 at the time they arrested her for the murders and, um, and she was actually the next year in, uh, 1893. Lizzy was acquitted. Was found not guilty. Um, the jury was of 12, 12 men.
And basically they said, we don’t believe a woman would be capable of doing something like this. And so there’s a lot of intricacies to the story. Um, you know, there’s, there’s con there’s controversy about whether, um, the dad was molesting her and just different things like that. Um, whether she wanted his inheritance, that was another conspiracy theory, but long story short.
she was, um, she was found guilty or she was found innocent of committing those murders and is still an unsolved murder. So again, since 1892, this house has had reports of paranormal activity. Um, later on, um, after 1892, there was a neighbor that had a couple of kids that died in a tragic accident in a well behind their house.
So the kids are said to inhabit the Lizzy Borden house as well. So when we investigat. , there were five of us again on this investigation. And, um, as soon as we start an investigation, we have our voice recorders running. So even when we’re pulling luggage out of the car or equipment out of the car to bring it into the house, if, if we’re in the house, we have a voice recorder running because we wanna make sure we get everything that we can, right.
So we were still in the process of setting up our equipment and there were three of us upstairs. Jenny and, and Kara were sitting in the parlor where Andrew Borden’s body was found. They’re just sitting there talking about the day and kind of some different things. Then they start getting on, uh, talking about the difference between the ska acts murder house, which we had investigated prior and the Lizzy Borden house.
During that conversation, Carra says either way being acts to death would be a horrible way to die. As soon as she said that a male’s voice on the voice recorder said it was. There was no man in the house. Um, and yet it seemed like this guy was interjecting into the conversation saying, yeah, it was a horrible way to die.
We have no explanation for that. Um, later on during the night we captured, um, children giggling when we were upstairs in the, on the third floor, uh, in the third floor attic area, um, we captured some children giggling and some of our devices started indicating that there was energy acting upon it when none of us were around that device.
That was kind of interesting. Um, we were all in the third floor room where the made Bridget Sullivan. who was the maid to the, the boards. That’s where, where her room was on the third floor. So we were all five of us in that room and we had the door shut. We were just asking questions again. Miranda had her K2 meter and she put it down on the floor.
She’s putting it down on the floor, she said, here’s another tool for you to play with. As she did that, a man’s voice in the hallway said, ignore them. It was so loud that said, ignore them. We all heard it. Jenny who was standing by the door, she whipped the door open to look out to make sure that, you know, nobody had come into the house.
Of course they hadn’t and we captured it on, uh, the voice recorders as well. Uh, so again, a very interesting location because we were capturing so many different things, both intelligent and, um, and what we call residual. So for us, the Lizzy Borden house was a great investigation.
[00:42:34] Jeremiah: Yeah, definitely interesting.
And makes you wonder and. I know if I was there, I would probably have ran out. Cuz that was I get scared easily. So, oh, I would’ve, if I would’ve heard some guy yelling, like get out or something or ignore them, I’d be like, okay, it’s time to go see, yeah. ,
[00:42:55] Kris: you know, for us, it, it really is fascinating. Now I can honestly say we’ve had moments where we’ve been startled.
We have moments of, of trepidation obviously, but you know, for us, it’s just so fascinating that, you know, we’re, we’re communicating with energy, right. We’re communicating with a spirit. And so for us, that’s why we’re there and it, it really makes no point to run out. Um, like I said, we we’ve had those moments where it’s fight or flight and you kind of stand there and your, your hearing gets really acute, but, but then you’re like, okay, this is why we’re here.
This is what we’re here for. And so for us, it’s absolutely fascinating to try to get those responses and, and see if we can come up with an explanation form.
[00:43:35] Jeremiah: So you’ve. Don’t think that, um, the ghosts or spirits can actually like hurt anybody. They’re kind of just there.
[00:43:45] Kris: I, I do believe that there’s instances where if you provoke or you go in with what I call the wrong intentions, I E you’re there to really grand eyes, um, uh, your investigation, or again, provoke a spirit.
I do think that there’s times where you can get assaulted, I E scratched or something like that. Believe that’s possible. Say for us, we’ve never had that happen. We’ve never gone into a, a location and has, and have had, you know, anything happen to us where we have felt threatened or anything malicious, malicious, or malevolent towards us.
There have been locations where we feel something that’s darker. Mostly that happens in prisons for us. And it not, I’m not saying darker is in demonic. I’m saying darker as in this guy was a jerk in life and he’s a jerk in death. So we’re just gonna let him go and do his thing. Um, but we’ve never had anything like that where we’ve been physically assaulted.
Now we will go into locations and. You’re not allowed to touch us unless we give you permission to do so. And so going back to the exchange hotel, when we were trying to communicate with the, the child, Jeremiah, I said, you know, I’m, can you give a high five? I want you to touch me, touch me, gimme a high five, pull my pant leg.
And we have had things happen when we invite that. Um, but we’ve never, like I said, had anything that, uh, has been threatening or physically assaulting towards us.
[00:45:14] Jeremiah: Okay. So yeah, you haven’t, um, encountered now, do you think, um, do you think like demons are like separate from like spirit and ghosts? Like, I don’t know if you get into that kind of thing.
Mm-hmm but, or like exorcisms or any of that stuff, but like, there’s gotta be evil side to. to it. Yeah. Um, what’s your take on that?
[00:45:38] Kris: So when we go to our investigations, what we’re attempting to communicate with are those spirits that had a human existence, right? They were born, they lived, they died. And for some reason they’re stuck where they’re at.
Um, those three theories that I mentioned earlier, I, I do believe there are demons, but I don’t believe a Demonn had a human existence to me. A, a Demonn is a representation of the evil of the good and evil in the world. They never had that human existence, but they can exist. Um, and they, there are moments where I think you can provoke that, that Demonn entity.
Uh, but for us, we’ve never attempted to do that. Uh, and we’ve never experienced anything that I’ve felt is demonic. I mean, we’ve gone to some of the most reportedly haunted locations in the country and not once have we felt anything that is malicious or demonic, but again, we don’t go in looking for that.
When we go into a location. the first thing that we do is we set our intentions and we say, listen, we’re here to tell your story. We’re not here to harm you. Not here to provoke you. Here to threaten you in any way. Respect your location. And we’re here to respect you. All we wanna do is communicate and tell your story.
Um, and I think because we go in with that level of respect for both the location and the spirits, we kind of get that respect in return. We get communication back. We get instances where, you know, we’re not harmed or physically threatened in any way. And I, I think it, it really go, it goes back to the intention level that we set.
Um, now. If, if there is a location that we come across, um, in the future that has something that we would consider demonic, you know, that’s fine. We will leave that space. And we have, um, friends in, uh, that are demonologist that we can call, um, or priests that we can call and they can help us with that, that location or that case.
But for us, that’s really something that we don’t even delve delve into.
[00:47:33] Jeremiah: Yeah. That’s probably a good thing. And I always ask my, uh, ghosts or paranormal guests, like what, uh, they view for like oui boards and stuff like that. And mm-hmm, a lot of, ’em say, you know, don’t really mess with it. If you don’t really know what you’re doing, because a lot of people don’t know what the heck they’re doing.
And then they could invite like bad spirits or bad energy and. So, yeah.
[00:47:59] Kris: Yeah, absolutely. And, and that’s something that we don’t use. Um, not so much that I think we would open a portal or something like that, but there, it, it’s, it’s really the, um, the connotation behind Awei board. Right? Most people, as soon as you say oui board, they automatically think in their minds, demons, portals, evil.
Um, and, and so that’s just one tool that we’ve never utilized simply because of the connotation behind it. But, um, you know, to your point, I think any tool that if you use in a manner that, um, that it’s not intended for, or you go in with the intention of trying to provoke something, um, or conjure something that, that you shouldn’t be dealing with.
I, I think anything that you take in there could, could have that same result where you get the really the response that you’re looking for. Right. So,
[00:48:53] Jeremiah: Oh, yeah, definitely. All right. So one last, uh, investigation that I wanted to hear from you about uh mm-hmm and then we’ll wrap it up. But, um, and I hope I get the names right too ma and Fred Barker
[00:49:09] Kris: mm-hmm yep.
[00:49:10] Jeremiah: and there’s story. And there. The your experience with it.
[00:49:14] Kris: Mm-hmm absolutely. So absolutely love this story. Um, so this, uh, the ma Barker house was the site of the 1935 shootout between Mon Fred Barker, who are two members of the Barker carpus gang and members of the FBI. Um, so kind of how this came about is you’ve got ma Barker who is, um, the matriarch of the, the Barker carpus gang, who was a really, it was a, it was a really prolific gang, um, in the 1920s and 1930s.
In fact, the, the, the Barker gang, uh, actually called the Barker carpus gang a lot amassed more money than all of the other gangs of the 1920s, 1930s combined. That’s how prolific they were. Um, so you had the great depression from 1929 to 1939, coupled with prohibition from 1920 to 1933. And this is really giving gangs, um, uh, the rise in America.
So. Long story short, you’ve got Jay Edgar Hoover who comes to power and, and, and head of the FBI in 1924. And, um, he decides to go after the Barker carpus gang, because they escalate into kidnapping, which is a federal offense. So they, they kidnap two guys, um, in 1934, um, William ham and Edward Bremer. They get the reward money for them, and then the gang splits.
When they split, they, they split up, they split the money and then they split themselves. Ma Barker and one of her sons, Fred go down to central Florida to this little, literally one, one stoplight town called Aloha, which is in Marion county. And, uh, so they hide out in this house, which was belonged to a guy by the name of, of, uh, of Carson.
The Carson family. And, uh, so they hide out in this house in 1934, November of 1934 in January of 1935, Jay Edgar Hoover tracks them down to the house, a gun battle ensues on the morning of January 16th, 1935. And it culminates with ma and Fred Barker being killed inside the upstairs room of this house.
So. After they were killed, um, uh, Carson Bradford and his family, they maintained the house as it was during that shootout. So when you go in today, there’s bullet holes all on the walls. The SCOs are the same. The doors are the same. The floors are the same. Everything is maintained in this house as it was in 1935, everything, but the windows, I mean the furniture there’s furniture with bullet holes that you can line up to bullet holes in the wall.
Right? And so, um, the reason we knew about this house is because, um, it, it, we were born in Marion county and my grandparents lived about four miles from the house. So every time we’d visit N and granddaddy, and we’d go into Olo, waha, they’d say, you know, that’s where Mon Fred Barker were killed. So in 2016, Carson Bradford’s family decided they were gonna sell the house.
They were gonna sell the land. And the new owners of the land did not want the house. They were gonna demolish it. And so Marion county, Florida decided that they were going to take the house, take possession of the house and move it. Um, to a new location. Basically they put it on a barge and they floated it across lake Weir about two and a half miles away and put it on 40 acres in a state park.
That’s where it sits today. It’s 40 acres in the middle of pretty much nowhere. There’s no light pollution, there’s no noise pollution or anything like that. When we asked Marion county, if we could investigate this house, we were the first paranormal investigation team to be allowed access to the mom Barker house.
We went in, it was a two part investigation. And what I wanted to do with the first part was I wanted to have equipment in the house on the anniversary of the shootout. So what we did is on January 15th, we put all of the stationary equipment in the house, voice recorders, um, uh, uh, stationary night vision, video cameras.
Handheld equipment that we had, we left K2 meters. We left all of that in the house on January 15th, the night of, and then we left, we locked the house and we left. And so all of that equipment ran to encompass the morning of January 16th, which would’ve been the 83rd anniversary of the shootout. And so when we went back and listened to the audio and video that we captured, we had some interesting things that we couldn’t explain.
Um, we had the sound of chairs being drug across the floor. We had the sound of doors being slammed. Um, we had a man’s voice saying get out. Had some different, um, things that sounded like maybe like a ball rolling or something like that, or a marble rolling. But one of the most interesting things that we captured, again, there’s nobody in the house.
One of the most interesting things that we capture. was at about five 30 in the morning, which is when the shootout happened or started at about five 30 in the morning. We captured two voices on the voice recorder, in the room where ma and Fred’s body were found. The first voice said, Freddy, the second voice said, yeah, ma the first one said, get ready.
And I, and I believe that’s a residual haunting. I believe that’s actually what was said in that room 83 years ago, before the shootout happened. So we got all of that. And so then about two weeks later, Jenny and I. Went into the house and we are the only two people in the house. Um, and so we are using some various pieces of equipment.
And one of the things that we were using was the spirit box that AMFM radio that I told you about earlier. And so again, this house sits in the middle of about 40 acres there. This radio is very small. There’s no radio stations that are in the area that this thing could pick up, right? So we turned on the AMFM radio and we started sweeping and you hear that static.
And I said, what happened in this room? And through the spirit box, they said, we got the, the phrase they murdered us. We, the ones dead. Now think about that for just a second. This, this spirit box is going through frequencies. At an eighth of a second, it’s changing to another frequency, but yet we got this full phrase that came through this spirit box.
Um, and theoretically, that should not happen. Right. So what are the odds that you have all of these stations lining up to give me the phrase they murdered us, we, the ones dead. Um, so that was extremely interesting to us and we captured some other things on some of our equipment as well, that night. Um, but for me, I mean the ma Barker house, I is one of those, the most fascinating investigations that we’ve been a part of.
[00:55:45] Jeremiah: Yeah. I kind of want to go check it out now just to go back in time a little bit, cuz mm-hmm if everything’s left the same. the pull holes and everything. It’s like, the police are like, oh, we’re done investigating it. It’s it’s, uh, left alone after that.
[00:56:00] Kris: So mm-hmm . Yeah. And, and that’s really what it was. And I’m really glad that the, that Carson Bradford’s family and, and Carson Bradford himself had the, the foresight to just maintain it like that.
Right. So, I mean, they hung up pictures and stuff to cover the bullet holes, but I mean, you walk up the stairs and, and you see ’em, um, there’s, there’s rocking chairs and, and furniture and, um, uh, trunks like vintage, uh, clothing trunks that when you open the lid, I mean, you see the bullet holes through and you can line it up to the bullet holes in the wall.
It’s, it’s pretty wild.
[00:56:31] Jeremiah: Yeah. That is, uh, very interesting. And I that’s in Florida, you said
[00:56:37] Kris: mm-hmm yeah. In central, in Marion county, Florida. Yep.
[00:56:40] Jeremiah: Dang. But you probably need a permit or something to, or permission to go on the property.
[00:56:45] Kris: Uh, you need to call Marion county, um, uh, park and rec and, uh, they’ll they have tours.
Uh, in fact, I was a doc in there for about eight months after our, our second investigation. So I led day tours and such in there, um, really telling the, the, the history as well as the paranormal, um, about the house. But, uh, yeah, so just call them and make an appointment and you, you can take a tour her.
[00:57:07] Jeremiah: Yeah, I might have to do that actually. it sounds so interesting. And I love, I love history, mostly like ancient history, but like even stories like this where, um, it wasn’t too, too long ago, but mm-hmm, like, it’s just a rich history story. Like the fact that they moved the house and the fact that everything’s left the same, like, I love that kind of stuff.
[00:57:33] Kris: you and me both. . Yeah. And, and that was one of the things that, that we wanted to really delve into because, um, you know, I wanted to see if the spirits moved with the house and, uh, and, and, and not stayed with the land. And they did right. Mon Fred, I do believe that their spirits moved with the house.
And the reason being is they had no ties to the land. Right. They, they were nomadic, they were gangsters. They were nomadic in life. And so for me, why not stay with the, the location where you died. Um, and, and so that’s the reason why, cause I have a lot of people asking, you know, why didn’t you investigate the land, the actual property one, I couldn’t get onto it.
Cuz the owners said no. Um, but for me they, they, they wouldn’t be with the land. Right. They, they had no ties to it. So I was pretty sure that if anything was gonna be haunted, it was gonna be the house.
[00:58:22] Jeremiah: Oh yeah, definitely. It’s kind of like if you’re a Noma, you don’t care about where you are at. You’re just.
Hopping around. And then other people it’s like if they were born and raised and stayed where they grew up, then they’re tied to the land cuz it’s familiar and mm-hmm uh, you know, you get people that end up moving back to where they were born and raised. Cuz they just like the is just something about it.
That just the experience of growing up. So yeah. I definitely agree with you there. So I’ll ask one more question and that is if you could go and there’s no restrictions, no nothing. What would your next, uh, like dream investigation B.
[00:59:10] Kris: Oh, I’d love to go international. Um, I would love to get over to Ireland.
There’s a castle there called leap castle. That’s definitely the, the number one location on my bucket list and really anywhere in, in Europe, in London. Um, I’ve been there several times as a tourist, but not as a paranormal investigator. And, you know, I, I love American history. There’s everything about American history fascinates me, but you know, obviously Europe has that longevity that we just don’t have here.
And so when you go into a, a castle or, um, you know, somewhere that is from the 19 or from the 16 hundreds or the 15 hundreds, you know, that to me is absolutely fascinating. So getting over to Ireland, to England, um, to Europe in general, that would definitely be bucket list locations for me. Um, there’s a plantation in, uh, Australia called the Monte Christo plantation.
Uh, again, that’s a place I’ve been to as a tourist, but not as a paranormal investigator. It has a lot of haunting reports. So I’d love to get over there. and really just any place here in the us that has, uh, an interesting legend or lore, um, you know, someplace that we investigate, you know, even from, you know, small houses to jails, to cemeteries, uh, all of it to me really is really fascinating.
So, um, you know, for me, I, I always have voice recorders in K two meters in my car. Just if, if an I impromptu investigation occurs, cuz it is just, all of it is just fascinating.
[01:00:35] Jeremiah: Oh yeah. You never know when you might need to break ’em out and exactly. take a look and I’m into the whole UFO phenomenon. So like it’s kind of similar, I guess, in the fact that it could happen anywhere anytime.
So a lot of people like to be prepared and try to have a, their camera ready. Something, so they can capture it.
[01:00:59] Kris: mm-hmm oh, absolutely. You have to be ready.
[01:01:02] Jeremiah: yep. So thank you for coming on. And speaking with us, we covered a lot of ground and very interesting stories and definitely, um, like what you’re doing.
I hope you keep it up and, uh, keep the scientific approach. Uh, like I said, I don’t like using that term, but in this instance it’s like, yeah, you’re trying to make it as real as possible without, you know, fantasizing, I guess. And yeah. Just keep up the good work and, um, definitely good to have you
[01:01:35] Kris: on. Well, thank you, Jeremiah.
I, I appreciate it.